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Alicorn Magic different thing from Unicorn magic?


Zoraxe

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(edited)

Alicorns have Unicorn Magic, Pegasus magic and (assumed) Earth Pony magic. But it seems to me that Alicorn Magic is a different thing from Unicorn magic. For one Celestia at some times feels super powerful compaired to Unicorns, but at others it seems that Celestia isn't that much super powered after all.

 

So, what I think is that Alicorns don't get enhance Unicorn magic simply by being Alicorns, and that they are seperate magical branches. (Explaining why only 'alicorn magic' could make Zecora's potion work). So if Alicorn magic doesn't relate to magical combat, for instance, than it may explain why Celestia can be taken out by vines, or almost lose to, in the comics...

 

Catapults

 

 

Tirak gained huge power from Alicorn magic, because I think he doesn't just take magic but also converts it to power that he can use, his own kind of magic. The same way he took Discords magic but gained none of Discords abilities.

Edited by Zoraxe
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Perhaps since alicorn magic is an amalgamation of all 3 types of magics, it has different properties to all 3.

Unicorn magic would be like carbon, and earth pony magic like iron. Alicorn magic is an combination  made of those two types of magic, and it makes steel. A far stronger metal, but one that has some different properties due to being an combination of them. Often times in combinations the resuting end can have far different properties to the peices used to create it.

 

 

And as for Celestia's faults, that is due to the warf effect. In order to prove that their new bad buy means business, the writers must have the villain beat the most powerful person around.

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Maybe it's just due to the fact that Alicorns possess more magic than other ponies or something, and because of this it's considered a different type of magic?

 

Maybe it has something to do with the fact that the three magics mold together into one or something. Or atleast when he absorbs it.

 

Or again it could be they just have more power overall than other ponies. And thus Tirek considers it a different type of magic, and well the others I guess ;p.

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I've been thinking about this a bit, and honestly, it seems to me that Alicorns have two different reserves of magic; normal,"unicorn" magic used for things like teleporting and firing magical blasts, and a stronger, immeasurably more powerful "Alicorn" magic that can only be used in direct relation to their special talent, like raising the sun and the moon. This would explain why Celestia hasn't proven to be much stronger than Twilight or Sunset Shimmer; she has unimaginable power, but it's only usable under one very specific circumstance. This would prevent Alicorns from abusing their power with other nations, causing a need for diplomacy. It would also explain why our goddesses need simple pony bodyguards.

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I'd also like to throw in about Tirek absorbing their power, that it doesn't really seem to grant him the specific powers of the thing he absorbs the magic from, he just gets power from it. I basically think of it as he doesn't absorb their abilities, but their power, if that makes sense.

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I've been thinking about this a bit, and honestly, it seems to me that Alicorns have two different reserves of magic; normal,"unicorn" magic used for things like teleporting and firing magical blasts, and a stronger, immeasurably more powerful "Alicorn" magic that can only be used in direct relation to their special talent, like raising the sun and the moon. This would explain why Celestia hasn't proven to be much stronger than Twilight or Sunset Shimmer; she has unimaginable power, but it's only usable under one very specific circumstance. This would prevent Alicorns from abusing their power with other nations, causing a need for diplomacy. It would also explain why our goddesses need simple pony bodyguards.

 

That makes sense, Cadance has love ability, but is she stronger in combat or other unicorn abilities? I don't think so.

 

Makes me wonder how top level unicorns can fair against powerful Pegasus or Earth ponies, is there such a thing as top level Pegasi or top level Earth ponies? Because I like to think that unicorns aren't OP and the three races are about equal. Maybe using Unicorn magic is extremely draining.

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Alicorn magic seems to be an amplified version of Unicorn magic in most regards. for example it boosted Twilight's teleportation spell from a few feet to globe spanning and made its casting almost automatic. It also seems to be alot more aggresive form of magic. In terms of Alicorn combat we've only seen the laser blast fired by Celestia and Luna as NMM which comes the freaking Ion Cannon that Twilight tries to nuke Tirek with.

 

It can also be said to grant a unique abilites and spells.

 

Raising the sun and moon seems inherent to Celestia and Luna but it can be past on as a skill. (which begs the question, did Celestia and Luna recieve the power the same way they gifted it to Twilight?)

 

Luna's Dreamwalking spell, which also seems to have some divination aspect to it as it can create visions of alternate futures of great accuracy. 

 

Cadence's Love  (Reformation) spell. Can dispell hate and promote love. Indirect mind control. Twilight has the "Want it, Need it" enchantment that works the same way, tho at the time seems choatic when cast by a unicorn.

 

Twilight herself as displayed no unique alicorn spell of her own (yet), only that she can apparently learn ANY spell that she has seen, including dark magic. Makes we wonder if Twilight can defeat Chyrallis by draining her with the same leech magic she uses. :P 

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Actually alicorn magic seems to be the same as dark magic.  Every time I have seen it used, it has been like sombra's stuff.  I would figure it is another branch and unicorns can technically use it if they are really powerful.

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(edited)

Actually alicorn magic seems to be the same as dark magic.  Every time I have seen it used, it has been like sombra's stuff.  I would figure it is another branch and unicorns can technically use it if they are really powerful.

 I'm sure that'll be ret-cond a some point. I think they just got lazy and used that animation. Most because if thats the case. Twilight as being casting Alicorn spells as a unicorn in the S2 opening preimere XD

 

Plus the sickly black seems unique only to twilight. Even NMM's horn as a regular blue glow like Luna's

Edited by Shire Pony Malinter
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 I'm sure that'll be ret-cond a some point. I think they just got lazy and used that animation. Most because if thats the case. Twilight as being casting Alicorn spells as a unicorn in the S2 opening preimere XD

 

Plus the sickly black seems unique only to twilight. Even NMM's horn as a regular blue glow like Luna's

 

Thing is though, she wasn't casting alicorn magic -- she was just casting spells she knew.

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Thing is though, she wasn't casting alicorn magic -- she was just casting spells she knew.

 

I actually think the sickly glow as a result of forced magic. Anytime we've see it the caster seems to be somehwat pained or fatigued afterwards like Celestia when she demonstrated hatred on crystals and twi filling the vail.

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My guess is that spell with the potion needed both alicorn and dark magic to cast. That there are unicorn spells that are dark and Alicorn spells that are dark.

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That makes sense, Cadance has love ability, but is she stronger in combat or other unicorn abilities? I don't think so.

 

Makes me wonder how top level unicorns can fair against powerful Pegasus or Earth ponies, is there such a thing as top level Pegasi or top level Earth ponies? Because I like to think that unicorns aren't OP and the three races are about equal. Maybe using Unicorn magic is extremely draining.

They are; most unicorns magical extent is limited to "long hands", and special magic that corresponds to their talent. Rarity needed Twilight's help to reach something across the room in Lesson Zero, for instance, and she's only capable of lifting within a very small weight limit. Like using muscles, it takes significant personal investment to learn and use powerful magic; most unicorns don't have the time for that. It's kinda like how Rainbow Dash isn't the baseline for all pegasus; Twilight is an outlier among unicorns. Basically, in a normal fight, with all combatants equally skilled in their fields, a unicorn wouldn't have any significant advantage over a pegasus or Earth Pony.

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(edited)

I don't think Alicorn magic would be strictly different. Alicorns are like the Chuck Norrises of their universe, and have the traits of all three types, so of course they're super awesome at magic. Though the season four finale establishes that all Ponies possess some kind of magic that makes them skilled in some way, spell casting is rooted in Unicorn magic. If we were talking physical strength or flying ability, I doubt we'd be treating the corresponding Alicorn abilities as different. Alicorns are, of course, more skilled, and their bodies probably possess a greater capacity to cast really taxing spells, which would explain their ability to cast certain exclusive spells, and a greater ability at Unicorn spells, but I doubt it has anything to do with Earth Pony or Pegasus magic.

 

We can also likely attribute a great deal of Twilight's abilities to the fact that she's always been awesome at magic. Magical ability is inherent in all Unicorns, but mastering it takes practice, much like flying ability for Pegasi. In the case of Unicorns, it takes study. Even Alicorns appear to have big libraries, so I'm sure they study a lot. I imagine there aren't so many Alicorn exclusive spells, since only Alicorns would come up with them, and the discipline doesn't appear to be any different. On the other hand, Rarity is far less of an academic type, so, though she probably had to practice her abilities, I doubt her's are anywhere near what a well-read Unicorn's would be, just like how Fluttershy can fly, but she's not Wonderbolts material, because flying hasn't been her focus.

 

Actually, I would very much like to see Alicorns developed more. They are supposed to possess a greater potential for everything, but their spell casting capabilities seem to have way more focus. They can fly, but I have yet to see them pull off great speed that surpasses Rainbowdash's abilities, or lift or throw something heavier than Big Mac could. I believe that Celestia is an academic like Twilight. Luna seems to be less so, so maybe she could be more skilled at flying, or something. Just because Alicorns possess a greater capacity for things, doesn't mean they don't have areas where they shine more than others, and I would like to see an Alicorn who excels at something other than spell casting. I suppose we could attribute their spell-centric nature to the fact that Unicorns possess a greater capacity for making the jump to being an Alicorn, and Twilight herself was a Unicorn, but it was never established what Celestia and Luna were, or if they have just always been Alicorns.

Edited by Tross
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(edited)

I've been thinking about this a bit, and honestly, it seems to me that Alicorns have two different reserves of magic; normal,"unicorn" magic used for things like teleporting and firing magical blasts, and a stronger, immeasurably more powerful "Alicorn" magic that can only be used in direct relation to their special talent, like raising the sun and the moon. This would explain why Celestia hasn't proven to be much stronger than Twilight or Sunset Shimmer; she has unimaginable power, but it's only usable under one very specific circumstance. This would prevent Alicorns from abusing their power with other nations, causing a need for diplomacy. It would also explain why our goddesses need simple pony bodyguards.

 

I like and agree with the implication that magic only manifests for specific circumstances.  On the point of abusing magical power, I believe that is up to the morals of the magic user.  It may be possible that Celestia is being conservative with her magic as it is powerful enough to disrupt the harmony and balance of Equestria which she dedicates herself to maintaining.

 

I believe that magic only manifests specifically as it has a will of its own.  That has been implied by filly Rarity's magic taking her to her destiny and Celestia saying that magic sometimes works in ways they themselves don't understand.  Therefore, as magic has its own will, it manifests only when it wants to and it is right to.  I would go so far as to hypothesize that a cutie mark's manifesting is when a certain magic of the world of Equestria chooses a certain pony as a life companion for their specific talent.

 

As for magical abuse; I believe avoiding magical abuse is dependent on the morals of the magic user.  It is possible for magic to be forced.  Celestia has been shown to use Evil Sombra's dark magic, but as she is dedicated to keeping Peace and Harmony in Equestria, she does not do so extensively.  The villains of the show have all abused magic; Trixie with the Alicorn Amulet, Tirek with his power grab and Evil Sombra is hypothesized to be a unicorn who became seduced by the power of dark magic to use it to his means. 

 

There have been examples of where sufficiently powerful magic has had a detrimental effect on the stability of the Equestrian universe. 

 

In the MLP Comics #18 and #19, Starswirl The Bearded and Celestia realized that their magical cross-dimensional journeys were beginning to destabilize the separation between the parallel worlds.  Starswirl warned Celestia of how dangerous an impact their magic was having on the worlds and shut the portal down.  But ultimately, the two universes linked up and collided.

 

Therefore what may be them appearing to be weaker might just be them holding back to avoid destroying the world.

 

 

That makes sense, Cadance has love ability, but is she stronger in combat or other unicorn abilities? I don't think so.

 

Makes me wonder how top level unicorns can fair against powerful Pegasus or Earth ponies, is there such a thing as top level Pegasi or top level Earth ponies? Because I like to think that unicorns aren't OP and the three races are about equal. Maybe using Unicorn magic is extremely draining.

 

Well, considering that Unicorns use an active form of magic they can control and Earth and Pegasi ponies have passive magic that allows them to respectively connect to earth and sky, top magic levels of Unicorn, Earth and Pegasi in magic will all look vastly different.  It wouldn't be fair to pitch them against each other in magic.  A fight for a Unicorn would mean using their magic and Pegasi and Earth ponies would use the physical prowess their race gives them.

 

I would imagine top level Pegasi and Earth ponies would be have taken their physical abilities to their peak.  Rainbow dash would be able to do Double Sonic Rainbooms (lol fan ep! :D) and Applejack could outright shatter whole boulders with a single buck.

It would be interesting if a top magic level earth pony would gain some form of geokinesis or ability to manipulate plants and use that in combat.

 

Remember from Hearth's Warming Eve on the story that before uniting to found Equestria, the Earth, Unicorn and Pegasi were all separate nations?  They would likely have gone to war with each other had it not been for how they depended on each other; Unicorns raise sun and moon, Pegasi control the weather, Earth ponies produce food and pay food tribute to the other two races for sun and good weather.  If they had gone to war, it would have been disastrous.  Likely for physical and political reasons, they would have drawn a stalemate if they went to war with each other.  The last time they did the Windigoes almost got them all.

Edited by SpaceUnicorn
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This reminds me of a passage from the "Journal of the Two Sisters." It had mentioned that Star Swirl and other unicorns were raising and lowering the sun & moon long before Celestia and Luna were given the job. Well, as time went on after the coronation of the sisters, it is revealed that as the group of unicorns raised & lowered the celestial bodies they also gradually lost their power until they eventually were exhausted of their magic.

 

When Celestia and Luna took control of the sun & moon, it was found that their power steadily increased. They even restored the magic back to Star Swirl and the other unicorns.

 

So I think it is safe to say that alicorn magic is somewhat different from unicorn magic.

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Wait, they get more powerful once they start controlling the sun and moon but the Unicorns get weaker? It seems her power growth has hit a limit because villains can still take celestia out like anypony ells. The only Unicorn that we have seen fight Celestia was Sombra, and he was taken out by both Celestia and Luna at once. So we do not have a very good view of how powerful they are comparatively to Unicorns.

 

Who wants an immortal all powerful good guy anyways? Thats boring!

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Wait, they get more powerful once they start controlling the sun and moon but the Unicorns get weaker? It seems her power growth has hit a limit because villains can still take celestia out like anypony ells. The only Unicorn that we have seen fight Celestia was Sombra, and he was taken out by both Celestia and Luna at once. So we do not have a very good view of how powerful they are comparatively to Unicorns.

 

Who wants an immortal all powerful good guy anyways? Thats boring!

Sombra is not a normal unicorn- he held Celestia and an alternate universe version of herself in a barrier while he stole the Mane Six's elements and used them to repair a barrier between worlds; combining their power was the only way they could possibly beat him. I also suspect Celestia and Luna may be weaker without the elements supporting them.

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Sombra is not a normal unicorn- he held Celestia and an alternate universe version of herself in a barrier while he stole the Mane Six's elements and used them to repair a barrier between worlds; combining their power was the only way they could possibly beat him. I also suspect Celestia and Luna may be weaker without the elements supporting them.

 

We don't know if Sombra did anything that would make him fundamentally different from other Unicorns. We can make an obvious guess that he was a Top level unicorn, maybe with access to some arcane spells other unicorns never heard of. A lot of the magic in MLP seems to have origins in base things like friendship and love, maybe evil or hatred are sources of magic too.

 

And you might be right, maybe a bunch of Celestia's power largely came from the Elements of Harmony, and without them she was reduced in power greatly. I believe Luna and Celestia's faults led to them losing the elements, Luna was jealous and Celestia was probably manipulative, that led to fighting (Disharmony) and ultimately Luna getting banished and Celestia losing the elements, no longer worthy or able to use them.

 

I like to think that a pony can't learn or do everything, that there are limits to what a single pony (even an Alicorn) can do, so maybe once you reach the top level of magic its less of a contest of raw strength but more a rock/paper/scissors match of abilities.

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