Diamond Tiara: Why the Hatred?

[Fractured 2,683]

Diamond Tiara is quite possibly the most hated character in MLP. Twist is forgotten, Snips and snails are obnoxious, and Suri Polomare is ignored, but bronies seem to hate Diamond Tiara with a fury. My question is: why?

Now if you've seen any of the threads that i've created, you I don't go the usual route to things. I could compare her to other villains in the show, Discord, Sombra, etc, but that's been done. Instead, i'd rather compare how people feel about her as compared to other characters and see how opinions differ.

As compared to Angelica Pickles, from Rugrats: Her attitude is much the same as Diamond Tiaras, her actions mostly the same. On the whole, however, instead of being shunned, people seem to love Angelica's character.

As compared to Binky Barnes, from the TV show Arthur: He's yet another bully who happened to harass Arthur many a time. However, he seems to strike a more sympathetic case with people, rather than outright hatred.

As compared to Nelson, from the simpsons: If you like The Simpsons, you'll probably find Nelson funny. His actions end up being hillarious instead of antagonistic.
These characters all fit the bully stereotype, but the attitudes towards them are much different from the ones exhibited towards Diamond. No one would celebrate were a murder/rape fic to be created about any of the above character's, but when DT is concerned, it's perfectly acceptable, even celebrated. Why is that? I'd like to discuss it below. Also realize that this is a place for rational conversation; if you're argument extends to "because she's a bitch, and I hate her", it's best to find another thread.

[Pinkamena-Pills 6,838]

Funny thing is a don't 'hate' her,hell i like her as she can easily become a shinning example of 'growing the fuck up' if the shows writers ever decide to get around to it. 

 

Lets face i DT is only a 'bitch' because shes a immature,spoiled,obnoxious child. Comparing her to any real villain such as Sombra or the like is madness,shes just the 'Angelica' of the show,not a tyrant or a bringer of other worldly chaos ect...just a school brat that will most likely grow out of it in time.  

 

 If not? Then boohoo i guess lol. 

[Jeric 46,834]

Nelson and Angelica were grown through the series and shown softer sides, maybe one day we will get the same thing with DT. The fact that Diamond Tiara is hated isn't a bad thing, it proves that they are doing the character justice. I can't stand the character in the appropriate way you should hate an antagonist.

 

My 3rd favorite character on the show owes her growth in Season 4 to DT.

 

[Freewave 1,145]

Well she doesn't really have any redeemable qualities yet, to a degree that's a type of evil. Well in the Gabby Gums episode she was almost tolerable. Maybe someday they will write in her a fashion that doesn't portray her as just awful spoiled brat and can paint a different side or try to explain how being spoiled leads to awful behavior. Until then I'd rather give Silver Spoon the benefit of the doubt as someone who's just a follower and not an instigator.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Because so far she has not had anything shown to make her sympathetic to the audience. Unlike most of the other cartoon bullies you posted, she has not yet had that moment were she stands up for those she previously bullied against a greater evil, nor had anything really shown on screen that would make her seem like that sympathetic character. Really, just having a few seconds were we see her either treating the CMC with kindess, or even a reason for her actions  (like she acts out the way she does due to lack of a parental figure) would allow for alot more people to relate to her.

[EpitomeOfTruth 243]

To explain this, I believe I'll have to explain the different ways people see antagonists. Here goes.

 

The way I see it, there are two different ways that someone can veiw an antagonist. Make no mistake, sometimes characters are made specifically to be hated, but its how we hate them. You can either love to hate them, which is the sign of a good villain, or hate to hate them, which means that the character leaves more to be desired. Now your examples are all love to hate them type characters. Angelica, if my memory serves, rarely ever sees her parents. This is a pretty understandable, and fairly common, motive for her behavior. Also, she's been shown to have a softer side many times throughout the series. Nelson's character is a stereotypical bully on purpose, meaning that we aren't really supposed to care much for him and he's pretty much there for either just comic relief or a temporary opposing force. I never watched Arthur, so I can't speak for Binky.

 

The problem with Diamond Tiara is this: she lacks any sort of reason or motive for her general jerkiness. She and Silver Spoon are just there to be an obstacle for the CMC to overcome, and unlike Nelson, we are actually supposed to take them seriously. But how can we take them seriously if they're being nasty just for the hell of it. Now, there are some villains who can pull the whole "I did it because I can" shtick and make it come off good, (The Joker for example) but these character still make it clear that they have a goal that they are trying to reach. What exactly is DT trying to achieve? My guess would be nothing.

 

Now, thats not to say that she doesn't have a reason for being a bully, but that's just the problem. We don't know of she does have a

reason, and that just makes her seem like an extremely stereotypical, one-dimensional character. She needs to be developed more so we can learn why she acts the way she does, only then will people start to see something in here character.

 

This doesn't mean I support the "DIE DIMUN TEEEAURA" people, which is repulsive.

Edited July 30, 2014 by BronyOfJustice

[Fractured 2,683]

So for those of you who don't hate DT, but find her obnoxious: why do you think bronies have so much hatred for her? My personal belief is that the nature of ponies is so human to use it creates some kind of "mother bear" state, and anybody who threatens them is going to receive a lot of flak. It's happened to other characters too: in Filli Vanilli Pinkie Pie got quite a bit of garbage from the fans for messing with Fluttershy, and a few people haven't quite gotten over it. People also gave Fluttershy the same treatment in Putting Your Hoof Down, to a lesser extent. So might this be the cause of it, or is it something else entirely? Opinions?

[Jeric 46,834]

So for those of you who don't hate DT, but find her obnoxious: why do you think bronies have so much hatred for her? My personal belief is that the nature of ponies is so human to use it creates some kind of "mother bear" state, and anybody who threatens them is going to receive a lot of flak. It's happened to other characters too: in Filli Vanilli Pinkie Pie got quite a bit of garbage from the fans for messing with Fluttershy, and a few people haven't quite gotten over it. People also gave Fluttershy the same treatment in Putting Your Hoof Down, to a lesser extent. So might this be the cause of it, or is it something else entirely? Opinions?

 

As a huge fan of Scootaloo ... what you say makes a lot of sense. When she targeted Scootaloo for her limitations, I had one of my few verbal outbursts when watching the show. Its not very PG-13 so use your imagination. Of course post episode I realized that the writers used the character perfectly, and unlike others I really thought that a lack of punishment for Diamond Tiara was realistic. 

 

I personally hope that she is given a sympathetic story later. If I was a writer on the show I would do the following

 

1. Make her actually be the catalyst for one of the CMC getting a cutie mark

2. Have her cross a line with Silver Spoon leaving her friendless and hit rock bottom

3. Redeem her through the CMC character that she first antagonized (Applebloom)

 

Angelica was my favorite of the Rugrats ... if they move the needle with Diamond Tiara toward Angelica level depth I would be the first one to fist pump.

[EpitomeOfTruth 243]

So for those of you who don't hate DT, but find her obnoxious: why do you think bronies have so much hatred for her? My personal belief is that the nature of ponies is so human to use it creates some kind of "mother bear" state, and anybody who threatens them is going to receive a lot of flak. It's happened to other characters too: in Filli Vanilli Pinkie Pie got quite a bit of garbage from the fans for messing with Fluttershy, and a few people haven't quite gotten over it. People also gave Fluttershy the same treatment in Putting Your Hoof Down, to a lesser extent. So might this be the cause of it, or is it something else entirely? Opinions?

 

I guess it's just because there's no reason to really like her, which I can understand. As for why some would openly support murder and rape fics with DT as the victim, well I don't really know why they would practice and condone such behavior. I guess they believe that you should fight hate with more hate, which isn't right.

 

I guess people just don't like it when certain characters are jerks, whether there is a good reason or not, and as a result, they get tons of unwarranted hate. So yeah, I believe that the "mother bear" mentality plays a part in it. I personally believed that Pinkie and Flutters did not deserve any of the flak they got for those episodes, since I believed that they both had good reasons for acting that way, but that's a debate for a different time.

Edited July 31, 2014 by BronyOfJustice

[Ianpiersonjdavis 512]

Being a school bully, doesn't always make one universally hated as in some cases (Nelson, Binky Barnes) they are shown to have more characterization than just 'someone whose a jerk to others' with more depth added.

 

Diamond Tiara is a bully who finds a weakness and mercilessly exploits it, be it the lack of a Cutie Mark (Blank Flank!) or a physical disability (a Pegasus who can't even FLY!).

 

There is also 'Family Appreciation Day' where she goes out of her way to humiliate Applebloom by trying to get Granny Smith to show up and attempting to make fun of her for her odd ways.

 

In 'Ponyville Confidential' she only wants to write cruel gossip at the expense at others (which granted, ALL media does), but then she has Featherweight actually stalk, peep at, and photograph all of the CMC so she could blackmail them later.

 

Again, there doesn't seem to be any real rhyme or reason for her jerkiness other than she's rich and therefore automatically elitist (which I hope not as that's FAR too shallow a reason), her father spoils her because he feels guilty that she doesn't have a mother (or some other reason) or the fanon reason I've heard; she feels inadequate about her own destiny and what it's supposed to mean.

 

Unfortunately, the show has made no attempts to shed some more light on why she pursues such negative behavior-so she's hard to understand, much less sympathize with and that can alienate people from ANY character.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Ianpiersonjdavis

[Unikitty 1,211]

I just think she's a jerk, and her whole point of being is to make others' lives hell. The three examples you gave have like-able qualities. And they're only jerks sometimes.

 

Angelica is mean, but there are times when she can turn around to be just the sympathetic person that is needed.

Binky Barnes can be mean, but hhe's also not very bright, leading to amusing side events. There are also plenty of times where it seems he gets along with Arthur.

Nelson, I would think, is the least mean of the three. Its clear his bad actions are fuelled by his desire to be accepted with the other two of the bully trio. There are plenty of times where Nelson has shown compassion and the wish to just be a good person.

 

Bad characters are made interesting when there's conflict in their design. DT is simply a bad pony with absolutely no care for others, nor any desire to develop character.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,151]

My main issue is that she has no redeeming qualities. I mean, for me personally, there is nothing likable about her at all! I mean, she's had plenty of episodes, but it's all same ole, same ole.

 

Now, let's compare her to Gilda and Suri. They're basically VERY similar, but at the same time we've really only seen them once each. Now, had they had more episodes with little development, then they'd probably be very similar.

 

Two more examples: Sombra & Trixie. Sombra barely got any screen time, but he is my favorite MLP villain because he has certain qualities that make him an awesome villain in my eyes; presence, intelligence, etc. On Trixie, she got a second episode, and she for the most part redeemed herself.

 

With DT, she has no qualities like that in my eyes. Now, I don't hate her. I do not have any character in MLP. She is just easily my most disliked.

[NavelColt 22,875]

Part 1: Angelica's immature and shows off the same temper tantrums, fits of crying, etc that the other baby characters do, Binky's been friendly with Arthur and friends on many occasions without expecting anything in return, and Nelson's just an idiot who's used as a visual gag more often than a character. None of them hold a candle to how irritating and utterly unlikeable DT is.

 

Part 2: DT is a manipulative, cunning, cruel and stuck up character who's traits of bullying are far beyond the age-range she's depicted at. Ergo why she gets so much hate, despite being the same general age of the CMC, 'a kid, a filly', etc. She's relentless, expects the entire world to serve her on a silver platter because of her cliche rich heritage, and her single purpose in the show is usually to make the protagonists' lives miserable. As many others have said, we've now been through four seasons, and she's had not one truly redeemable moment.

 

Part 3: It's also worth noting that, to me, the fact she's the most boring antagonist doesn't make me like her any more. In a world where you have Draconequui making chocolate rain, evil parasitic armies trying to suck your emotions away, and shadow kings trying to impale you with crystals, 'Hi, I'm the cliche stuck up girl who's gonna bully you', is just obnoxious and uninteresting.

 

~A DT hater Someone who does not like DT

Edited July 31, 2014 by ~Chaotic Discord~

[Fractured 2,683]

So, it seems that most of the animosity comes from a two-dimensional character. Unikitty is quite right: all of those characters do have traits that make them endearing, or sympathetic in some cases. So I guess the final question is: do you believe Hasbro has any plans to turn her into one of those characters? There are pros and cons, of course; while MLP would get rid of one its most shallow and cruel characters, and she could finally become her own character; she would lose the impact she has in the show: contributing to the CMC's personal growth. I believe whatever chance she has at being similar to these characters would have to come during or after the CMC get their cutie marks,when they start to branch out and do different things and she realizes that her life so far has been shallow and empty. So, do you think Hasbro would ever give her depth similar to some of the above characters, or is she cursed with being a plot device to the CMC for the remainder of the show?

[NavelColt 22,875]

Could go either way, but seeing as it is a kid's show about friendship, I wouldn't be surprised if she gets reformed, or at least has some redeeming moments in S5 or beyond.

[Lighting Star 93]

Funny, I made a thread like this a while ago where I compared DT to Angelica. And here's what I said was the main difference between them was: In Rugrats, there were always episodes that redeemed Angelica's character not just from a moral standpoint, but in the audience's eyes as well. Episodes always came up that made us interested in or even care about Angelica. 

 

There exists no such episode for DT and SS as of yet. To answer you question, it's because they were designed specifically to be hated. Every second they're on screen the writers try as hard as possible to make you want to murder these two characters. I mean, they do nothing but make fun of the CMC, make their lives miserable, or just act like spoiled snobs. It's as if the only directions the writers were given with these characters is make them scream "Hate us!"

 

Now I hate these characters as they are presented in the cannon, but not the characters themselves. I think that a lot of very interesting things could be done with these characters if given the opportunity. Two fanfics that come to my mind that do this very well are Why Am I crying? (http://www.fimfiction.net/story/92801/why-am-i-crying) and both Pen Pals stories (not going to link either of them because they contain incest and clop).

[EpitomeOfTruth 243]

So, it seems that most of the animosity comes from a two-dimensional character. Unikitty is quite right: all of those characters do have traits that make them endearing, or sympathetic in some cases. So I guess the final question is: do you believe Hasbro has any plans to turn her into one of those characters? There are pros and cons, of course; while MLP would get rid of one its most shallow and cruel characters, and she could finally become her own character; she would lose the impact she has in the show: contributing to the CMC's personal growth. I believe whatever chance she has at being similar to these characters would have to come during or after the CMC get their cutie marks,when they start to branch out and do different things and she realizes that her life so far has been shallow and empty. So, do you think Hasbro would ever give her depth similar to some of the above characters, or is she cursed with being a plot device to the CMC for the remainder of the show?

 

 

Honestly, only time can tell the tale. Sometimes the show staff are extremely predictable, and sometimes they thow a big surprise our way. We'll have to just wait and see.

[babymoondust 223]

No one would celebrate were a murder/rape fic to be created about any of the above character's, but when DT is concerned, it's perfectly acceptable, even celebrated. Why is that?

 

I am going to suggest that it could be because people who would "celebrate" that (and I wouldn't say that writing a fanfic about it necessarily constitutes as evidence of the author celebrating / condoning / deeming it acceptable, but for the sake of this thread, let's say it is), because they themselves have fallen victim to a person who is very similar to DT in reality. 

 

The more accurately a fictional character represents a real life enemy to a certain individual, the more likely it seems that such a person will get more emotionally invested in that enemies downfall. I believe those who may be the most likely to want to see DT get some kind of smack-down, are those who were perhaps on the receiving end of a character like her at some point in their life. 

 

I do believe that as a general viewer - regardless of past experience with people who embody her ugly traits - you want to see DT fail. That seems to be the desired effect to some degree. The nature of her character prompts such a response as she shows such a total and complete lack of empathy, kindness, or apology - and especially when we see it being done to characters as innocent as the CMC's.

 

Sorry this wasn't really the response you were looking for, but I figured I'd at least answer the question I quoted. 

[Fractured 2,683]

I am going to suggest that it could be because people who would "celebrate" that (and I wouldn't say that writing a fanfic about it necessarily constitutes as evidence of the author celebrating / condoning / deeming it acceptable, but for the sake of this thread, let's say it is), because they themselves have fallen victim to a person who is very similar to DT in reality. 

 

The more accurately a fictional character represents a real life enemy to a certain individual, the more likely it seems that such a person will get more emotionally invested in that enemies downfall. I believe those who may be the most likely to want to see DT get some kind of smack-down, are those who were perhaps on the receiving end of a character like her at some point in their life. 

 

I do believe that as a general viewer - regardless of past experience with people who embody her ugly traits - you want to see DT fail. That seems to be the desired effect to some degree. The nature of her character prompts such a response as she shows such a total and complete lack of empathy, kindness, or apology - and especially when we see it being done to characters as innocent as the CMC's.

 

Sorry this wasn't really the response you were looking for, but I figured I'd at least answer the question I quoted. 

I enjoy different opinions, to be honest, as long as they're well presented. I understand the people that don't like her; I don't really like who she is. The writers made sure of that. I also see what she could be, though; i'm more interested in her potential than the character she currently is.

 

As far as fanfictions are concerned, I understand that when a writer may want to blow off steam about a situation; they don't necessarily have to agree with what they're writing. In any given fanfiction where Diamond Tiara is being punished, however, you'll have anywhere from a couple to a couple dozen people saying they plain don't feel sorry for her in the comments section, or celebrating her punishment and misery. Are these people in the same boat as the writer, then?

[Banul 3,831]

I don't watch Arthur so I can't comment on that. However, Angelica is a more sympathetic character because we get a better idea of why she acts the way she does. I always got the impression that, while given any material possession she wants, she doesn't get a lot of actual attention from her parents. Meanwhile, the main rugrats get all kinda of attention. Angelica is jealous and becomes a bully. Doesn't make it right obviously, but the audience can sympathize.

 

Helga from Hey Arnold is another good example. She bullies Arnold because she doesn't know how to show her affection for him. We also know that he parents favor her older sister. This make her a sympathetic bully.

 

Even Babs is a good example. Babs was a bully because she was bullied

 

We have no such insight into Diamond Tiaras life. We know she's in a rich family, but that's it. As a result, it's hard to drum up sympathy for her while she's constantly antagonizing the crusaders. We're never given a reason to feel anything towards her but anger and contempt. It's a shame, really. I'd like to see more development for her and Silver Spoon.

Edited July 31, 2014 by Banul

[Adorkable 2,737]

The only thing I have against Diamond Tiara is her attitude and how she handles situations. (Wait, that's 2?)

 

She's a bully and attention grabber, two things I don't think I could ever like in a person. How could I?

 

Not to mention how she and Silver Spoon made fun of Scootaloo not being able to fly, talk about heartbreaking. </3

[Red Cedar 1,406]

The other stereotypical bully characters from other shows mentioned in the first post all, at some point, displayed some redeeming, or even other, aspect of their characters that showed them to be more than simply a bully.

 

Diamond Tiara, quite simply, has shown no redeeming qualities whatsoever. She's manipulative, uses her influences to get what she wants out of other ponies (as seen in abundance in Twilight Time) and is, simply put, downright cruel. Sociopathically so. To the point where she convinces another pony her greatest failing is her physical disability and that alone is what defines her in life. In four seasons, we have seen almost no other side to her other than as a scheming, devious, resentful and spiteful little you-know-what, and even her friendship with Silver Spoon isn't able to draw your attention away from that fact.

[Megas 27,045]

- She never changes

- She's a generic bully

- She'll do anything to belittle someone

- She always shows up

[Rainblow H. Ash 5,090]

Reading through this topic gave me some interesting insights into why some people think Diamond Tiara needs more development and why they find her obnoxious or might hate her. From knowing someone like her in real life to thinking she's a bit two-dimensional, I think those are fair assessments.

 

I personally like Diamond Tiara and enjoy it when her and Silver Spoon show up to harass the Cutie Mark Crusaders. I have a history of liking bully characters, so it doesn't surprise me. I just find antagonistic characters, no matter how little development they get, to be interesting and funny, so I can't help but like her.

 

This is one of the few "Why is this character hated?" topics that makes sense, by the way. Kudos on that.

[Zekromic 1,054]

Nelson and Angelica were grown through the series and shown softer sides, maybe one day we will get the same thing with DT. The fact that Diamond Tiara is hated isn't a bad thing, it proves that they are doing the character justice. I can't stand the character in the appropriate way you should hate an antagonist.

 

My 3rd favorite character on the show owes her growth in Season 4 to DT.

 

OOOOOOHHHH, THAT SCOOTIE IS VERY CUTIE 

 

Well, anyways, the problem is not that she's hated, in fact, as you stated, she was made with that in mind, and she's fulfilling her role. problem is, most people take that hatred towards her to the extreme, to the point that her being raped is OK, while in the case of Angelica everyone loses their minds