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MLP jumping the shark, when and how?


chirox the pony

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It might never jump the shark. Why does everyone think that has to happen? The show might end before it can go downhill. And even if it does go downhill there is no way we could predict an exact time. It might happen in season 5, it might happen in season 15, it might never happen.

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Not a fan of the term 'jumping the shark' or the obsessive need for categorizing repeating aspects of story telling as inherently bad. For simplicity sake, I use jump the shark to mean a decline in quality. It hasn't declined in quality yet. Provided that there continues to be subtle progression, the show can go on with the current level of Pony goodness for a few more years.

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Once again a term is thrown around like people knows what it means.

 

The only time anything JUMPS the shark is if it is so blatantly disregarding its own in show logic that masses of people lose interest. Like the literal shark jumping moment in happy days it has to make so little sense and be so pandering that no one will be able to see it as anything but comically bad.

 

This show is about magical flipping ponies who have magical flipping adventures. If pinkie pie went out and literally jumped a shark we would laugh and say "thats pinkie" cause unlike happy days which took place in a relatively normal world this one has much more leeway. It is almost impossible to jump a shark because they already do barrel rolls over them on an episodic basis. Hell even Alicorn princess twilight didnt do squat to the shows momentum.

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Didn't it jump the shark when Twilight became an Alicorn? Idunno, personally haven't really been able to enjoy the show after Season 3 >>


Such downer... I dont see why people think every show will eventually get worse, futurama didn't, there ya go, perfect example

The last season wasn't that great, I skipped most of the episodes even though I was a huge fan of Futurama ;-;

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Such downer... I dont see why people think every show will eventually get worse, futurama didn't, there ya go, perfect example

It happens most of the time unfortunately, but some shows end before there's a decline in quality.

 

Regarding MLP:FiM, I fear the show will end way before a decline in quality, when it still has a lot of potential... >_>

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Didn't it jump the shark when Twilight became an Alicorn? Idunno, personally haven't really been able to enjoy the show after Season 3 >>

The last season wasn't that great, I skipped most of the episodes even though I was a huge fan of Futurama ;-;

Looking at it from a profressional completely non biased opinion, season4 FAR outranks the others, the characters all had plentey of equal screen time, they returned to the season 1 style of adventures mixed with slice of slife (just darker) and the pacing was phenomenally better, Im my personal biased opinion it was amazing, in yours it clearly wasnt, maybe you are just burnt out, one of my mod-dos when it comes to cartoons or ANY show is, blame yourself before the show, this isnt always true in the case of spongebob or family which have just gotten worse, but in most cases of loved shows the moddo is true. usually the person is just bored without realizing it so they assume its because the show has gotten weaker.

It happens most of the time unfortunately, but some shows end before there's a decline in quality.

 

Regarding MLP:FiM, I fear the show will end way before a decline in quality, when it still has a lot of potential... >_>

If they do in fact go to 9 seasons (popular belief) then I am sure it will be fine, because the writers are good at things, to be more specific, by season 3 episodes could of started to get repetative, so they slapped some wings on twilight and started doing off the wall random concepts for s4, daring do is real, GO, fluttershy is a bat, GO, pinkie vs weird al, GO, and they realize this would only work long term for one season, so now they are bringing us that awesome mission table from the animatic

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I don't believe FIM has jumped the shark, in fact Twilight becoming an Alicorn may have been one of the best ideas for the series in hindsight as we're open to a plethora of new stories and ideas just because of Twilght's new status, along with the fact the writers are trying to balance that with more equal screen time for her friends. Heck, funny thing was despite people's fears for the show becoming 'Twilight Sparkle show', outside of the season premiere, finale, and a few noted roles, she really was the background pony of season 4.

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The show might jump the shark, it might not, I dunno.

 

If it does, all of the mane 6 will become princesses.

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Okay I would like to point out I never said that the show has gone down hill, and I should have worded the topic better, I would like to clarify that I do not believe the show will definitely at some point go down hill.

 

P.S woohoo parasprite.

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The last season wasn't that great, I skipped most of the episodes even though I was a huge fan of Futurama ;-;

 

There were a lot of misses in that last season. It was a far cry from the days of Jurassic Bark. :(

 

I did like the finale though.

 

If they do in fact go to 9 seasons (popular belief) then I am sure it will be fine, because the writers are good at things, to be more specific, by season 3 episodes could of started to get repetative, so they slapped some wings on twilight and started doing off the wall random concepts for s4, daring do is real, GO, fluttershy is a bat, GO, pinkie vs weird al, GO, and they realize this would only work long term for one season, so now they are bringing us that awesome mission table from the animatic

 

You ... nail ... head.

 

If the writers continue to introduce elements into the show to add character development or expand on the mythology of the world, then the quality can be maintained for a long while. Season 4 had surprises that I couldn't have predicted as I was powering through my Season 1-3 marathon. They kept the show fresh. Like you pointed out, they look to continue that trend with the 'mission' concept. Also, they brought in some new writers which is a decent way to add a few new styles to mix things up.

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There were a lot of misses in that last season. It was a far cry from the days of Jurassic Bark. :(

 

I did like the finale though.

 

 

You ... nail ... head.

 

If the writers continue to introduce elements into the show to add character development or expand on the mythology of the world, then the quality can be maintained for a long while. Season 4 had surprises that I couldn't have predicted as I was powering through my Season 1-3 marathon. They kept the show fresh. Like you pointed out, they look to continue that trend with the 'mission' concept. Also, they brought in some new writers which is a decent way to add a few new styles to mix things up.

Yeah the new writers do a great job at keeping things fresh as they all have there own little talents, like Dave Polsky who In my opinion is best at slice of life, then there is josh haber, who is good at making formulaic stories, then there is meghan who watches to much anime (good thing) point is, all these new writers make every episode really unique Although Im worried about the johnny test writers joining the show :P. (P.S G.M Berrow writing a pinkie episode is just plain awesome)

 

 

 

 

OH YEAH, and what you said about a lot of misses last season, I assume you mean season 4, oh which I only find a few meh episodes, rainbow falls, somepony to watch over me and...uhhhh, thats it, all the other episodes I consider, great, amazing, godlike, or decent

Edited by ryanmahaffe
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OH YEAH, and what you said about a lot of misses last season, I assume you mean season 4, oh which I only find a few meh episodes, rainbow falls, somepony to watch over me and...uhhhh, thats it, all the other episodes I consider, great, amazing, godlike, or decent

 

lol ... I loved Season 4 of FiM. In fact its my favorite overall (though it doesn't have my favorite single episodes).

 

I was talking about Futurama. It was good and I enjoyed it just fine ... but too many episodes were just ok. I told myself to give it another shot in a year and see if my opinion has changed.

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lol ... I loved Season 4 of FiM. In fact its my favorite overall (though it doesn't have my favorite single episodes).

 

I was talking about Futurama. It was good and I enjoyed it just fine ... but too many episodes were just ok. I told myself to give it another shot in a year and see if my opinion has changed.

OOOOHHHHH FUTURAMA...welp im stupid

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I don't believe FIM has jumped the shark, in fact Twilight becoming an Alicorn may have been one of the best ideas for the series in hindsight as we're open to a plethora of new stories and ideas just because of Twilght's new status, along with the fact the writers are trying to balance that with more equal screen time for her friends. Heck, funny thing was despite people's fears for the show becoming 'Twilight Sparkle show', outside of the season premiere, finale, and a few noted roles, she really was the background pony of season 4.

Isn't that part of the problem?

It seems that her becoming a princess could have been completely undone and it wouldn't really make a difference outside some four or five episodes.

 

An entire season has passed and I still don't really know what's so great about being a Princess. The way Twilight becoming an alicorn was celebrated, I thought that it would be something awesome about it. Look at Celestia. What is it that she does that another pony couldn't be doing without being an alicorn within the show's universe? As far as we know, the ponies never really needed an alicorn princess. The show hasn't even established if alicorns are supposed to have the "powers" of the three tribes combined or if they are like an entirely different kind of being. Or even if these distinctions apply beyond aesthetics. The only thing that is displayed is that alicorns may be more potent in their magical power. But even then it falls flat because Celestia can't beat a foe, Cadance can't defeat an unicorn with her shield spell without him overpowering her and going about his business as if nothing happened.

 

I mean, the fandom implies that Celestia is a great ruler. But we're not seeing this. Much the same way that the show implies that Twilight is this awesome pony that reached a level that even Star Swirl The bearded couldn't reach... Where is it?

 

I'm not saying that the show is going bad, but it's telling a story that is not making much sense. Another example is the Crystal Empire itself. It's said that it's important to Equestria. But Equestria is exactly the same way it was before the Crystal Empire came back. What is the Crystal heart doing that wasn't happening before? I mean, we're told, but we're not shown.

 

Season 5 spoiler...

 

And from the animatic it seems that it's all about whatever power the Tree of Harmony has to find trouble, not Twilight's elusive 'princesses-ness'.

 

Edited by moonlightavenger
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Isn't that part of the problem?

It seems that her becoming a princess could have been completely undone and it wouldn't really make a difference outside some four or five episodes.

 

An entire season has passed and I still don't really know what's so great about being a Princess. The way Twilight becoming an alicorn was celebrated, I thought that it would be something awesome about it. Look at Celestia. What is it that she does that another pony couldn't be doing without being an alicorn within the show's universe? As far as we know, the ponies never really needed an alicorn princess. The show hasn't even established if alicorns are supposed to have the "powers" of the three tribes combined or if they are like an entirely different kind of being. Or even if these distinctions apply beyond aesthetics. The only thing that is displayed is that alicorns may be more potent in their magical power. But even then it falls flat because Celestia can't beat a foe, Cadance can't defeat an unicorn with her shield spell without him overpowering her and going about his business as if nothing happened.

 

I mean, the fandom implies that Celestia is a great ruler. But we're not seeing this. Much the same way that the show implies that Twilight is this awesome pony that reached a level that even Star Swirl The bearded couldn't reach... Where is it?

 

I'm not saying that the show is going bad, but it's telling a story that is not making much sense. Another example is the Crystal Empire itself. It's said that it's important to Equestria. But Equestria is exactly the same way it was before the Crystal Empire came back. What is the Crystal heart doing that wasn't happening before? I mean, we're told, but we're not shown.

 

Season 5 spoiler...

 

And from the animatic it seems that it's all about whatever power the Tree of Harmony has to find trouble, not Twilight's elusive 'princesses-ness'.

 

 

Not really as they were clearly taking their time with Twilight as originally season 3 was supposed to be the final season (65 episode mark, Twilight becomes princess at the end). Now thanks to having more seasons they can put up more ideas with her newfound status.

 

Celestia has personally watched over the kingdom for over 1000 years so that must count for something as ruler and she still watches over all the other ponies along with the other pony princesses. Also I'd assume the Alicorn thing is just to showcase their status as beings being given even greater responsibilities for ponykind. Celestia's inability to beat a foe is a problem that needs to be addressed due to their love of worfing her to show off a new foe. Cadence is probably the weakest Alicorn of the bunch compared to an immensely powerful Unicorn that was able to banish the Crystal Empire despite losing and would've turned the Crystal Heart into a doomsday device.

 

The show does need to show more love Celestia, agreed, as for Twilight being above Starswirl, well we never actually see what he was capable of other than he failed to complete a spell Twilight did, taught a young Celestia and Luna magic and leadership, so comparing them is pretty speculative.

 

I think it's the equivalent of just making sure nothing evil touches the Crystal Heart as that would probably wreck things. However, it does seem the writers have forgotten about this issue. Good point.

 

It's merely a snippet to what the season premire would likely be. We're not getting the whole picture so I wouldn't put too much stock into it yet.

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Not really as they were clearly taking their time with Twilight as originally season 3 was supposed to be the final season (65 episode mark, Twilight becomes princess at the end). Now thanks to having more seasons they can put up more ideas with her newfound status.

 

Celestia has personally watched over the kingdom for over 1000 years so that must count for something as ruler and she still watches over all the other ponies along with the other pony princesses. Also I'd assume the Alicorn thing is just to showcase their status as beings being given even greater responsibilities for ponykind. Celestia's inability to beat a foe is a problem that needs to be addressed due to their love of worfing her to show off a new foe. Cadence is probably the weakest Alicorn of the bunch compared to an immensely powerful Unicorn that was able to banish the Crystal Empire despite losing and would've turned the Crystal Heart into a doomsday device.

 

The show does need to show more love Celestia, agreed, as for Twilight being above Starswirl, well we never actually see what he was capable of other than he failed to complete a spell Twilight did, taught a young Celestia and Luna magic and leadership, so comparing them is pretty speculative.

 

I think it's the equivalent of just making sure nothing evil touches the Crystal Heart as that would probably wreck things. However, it does seem the writers have forgotten about this issue. Good point.

 

It's merely a snippet to what the season premire would likely be. We're not getting the whole picture so I wouldn't put too much stock into it yet.

My point is that Twlight being an alicorn and a princess is unnecessary. Period. I agree that it is possible that this happened because season 3 was supposed to be the last and becoming an alicorn princess was what Twilight was supposed to do in the last episode. Now they have to work with more seasons and are stuck with her being a princess. This is not even necessarily a bad thing. The problem is that it seems (up until now) unnecessary from the point of view of a continuing show, regardless of the reason "why".

 

The problem with Star Swirl is that he failed to complete the spell because he didn't understand friendship. Twilight, having completed the spell, supposedly, understands friendship.

 

This is a big unknown because I don't know how they are going to play the whole princess thing in the next season, but, Twilight still has to prove that she understands friendship so much that it gives her the one-up on an unicorn that has an itinerary fair dedicated to him. The princesses don't have something like that about them and two of them wielded the Elements in the past. Specially when it was Discord that figured out how to open the chest. I kept the whole season waiting for Twilight to figure it out. I could see her studying that stupid diary and figuring out what the entire fandom had already figured out. But no. Discord had the entries marked for her. Some big shot in matters of friendship she is when the greatest douche to walk on Equestria (that turns out to be a traitor) figures it out for her... I'm having trouble believing that Twilight has the very thing that gave her the title of princess: understanding friendship. So yeah... Let's wait next season and see if Twilight actually does something, because she seems to have forgotten everything.

 

By the way, what was the incomplete spell supposed to do anyways?! Give him the element of magic? Twilight already had it. Turn him into a prince by means of proving that he understood friendship? What about Luna and Celestia? Cadance?! They never had to do anything like this. What Cadance did, if you go by the book where she mentions it, seems so much easier. She never had to study magic like Twilight did and needed only do something that was natural to her.

 

Luna and Celestia again, in their diary...

 

For all I know they were born alicorns and thrust into ruling Equestria. Celestia is even reluctant to be called a ruler. When there are already rulers in the land. What BS is this? Different rules for different alicorns? What? Did she and her sister shy in their corner until the actual rulers passed away and ponies went "Whelp... Take the crown." The first thing that is said about them in the show is that they ruled Equestria!

 

 

What a mess. I don't mind the whole three tribes thing and the fire of friendship and the whole thing about Luna and Celestia in the past. What really hurts is all this "becoming alicorn" thing. But not because it's intrinsically bad. It's the execution that reeks of sloppy writing. I remember people praising the show for it's good writing.

 

Well, I'm almost afraid of the show giving Celestia more love, but this is another subject...

And I just agree on everything else.

 

I guess what I'm trying to say is that 'jumping the shark', if it even is a thing, seems too harsh. The show is like everything else: not perfect. But when it goes back into it's 'comfort zone', the slice of life episodes, and leaves the 'Genesis of Harmony' out, it tends to be great.

Edited by moonlightavenger
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My point is that Twlight being an alicorn and a princess is unnecessary. Period. I agree that it is possible that this happened because season 3 was supposed to be the last and becoming an alicorn princess was what Twilight was supposed to do in the last episode. Now they have to work with more seasons and are stuck with her being a princess. This is not even necessarily a bad thing. The problem is that it seems (up until now) unnecessary from the point of view of a continuing show, regardless of the reason "why".

 

The problem with Star Swirl is that he failed to complete the spell because he didn't understand friendship. Twilight, having completed the spell, supposedly, understands friendship.

 

This is a big unknown because I don't know how they are going to play the whole princess thing in the next season, but, Twilight still has to prove that she understands friendship so much that it gives her the one-up on an unicorn that has an itinerary fair dedicated to him. The princesses don't have something like that about them and two of them wielded the Elements in the past. Specially when it was Discord that figured out how to open the chest. I kept the whole season waiting for Twilight to figure it out. I could see her studying that stupid diary and figuring out what the entire fandom had already figured out. But no. Discord had the entries marked for her. Some big shot in matters of friendship she is when the greatest douche to walk on Equestria (that turns out to be a traitor) figures it out for her... I'm having trouble believing that Twilight has the very thing that gave her the title of princess: understanding friendship. So yeah... Let's wait next season and see if Twilight actually does something, because she seems to have forgotten everything.

 

By the way, what was the incomplete spell supposed to do anyways?! Give him the element of magic? Twilight already had it. Turn him into a prince by means of proving that he understood friendship? What about Luna and Celestia? Cadance?! They never had to do anything like this. What Cadance did, if you go by the book where she mentions it, seems so much easier. She never had to study magic like Twilight did and needed only do something that was natural to her.

 

Luna and Celestia again, in their diary...

 

For all I know they were born alicorns and thrust into ruling Equestria. Celestia is even reluctant to be called a ruler. When there are already rulers in the land. What BS is this? Different rules for different alicorns? What? Did she and her sister shy in their corner until the actual rulers passed away and ponies went "Whelp... Take the crown." The first thing that is said about them in the show is that they ruled Equestria!

 

 

What a mess. I don't mind the whole three tribes thing and the fire of friendship and the whole thing about Luna and Celestia in the past. What really hurts is all this "becoming alicorn" thing. But not because it's intrinsically bad. It's the execution that reeks of sloppy writing. I remember people praising the show for it's good writing.

 

Well, I'm almost afraid of the show giving Celestia more love, but this is another subject...

And I just agree on everything else.

 

Right now yea, but give them time as they're still trying to make an effective reason for her to be a princess since season 3 finale was supposed to be the final season till it's popularity gave it at least two more seasons and very likely more. It's evident Celestia has a plan for her, but what that plan is remains a mystery. Also, I don't think Twilight has forgotten her lessons on friendship as there were very few opportunities in Season 4 to be given the lesson, heck she's the one dishing it out in her few instances. It wasn't him figuring out but more that Twilight needed someone to understand the value of friendship taught from her in order for her to do it, which Discord provided. Heck there's a fan theory that Discord's betrayal was set up so they could get Twilight and her friends the box open, noted with Discord giving a wink to Celestia at the end.

 

Frankly the whole process to become an Alicorn is very confusing and obviously it involves something that takes more than simple mastery over a talent or art as apparently, because Twilight and Cadence did something that nobody did before, they got wings and horn respectively while possibly the most powerful mage in pony history didn't get it.

 

I assume it was more of that once the rulers passed away and Discord wrecked crap and the princesses were left the ones in charge, being the heroes that they were were given the crown out of respect for their powers. It's just more confusion otherwise because the whole Alicorn process and Luna and Celestia coming to power is sloppy writing that I hope gets explained better and deeper to fix this.

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Right now yea, but give them time as they're still trying to make an effective reason for her to be a princess since season 3 finale was supposed to be the final season till it's popularity gave it at least two more seasons and very likely more. It's evident Celestia has a plan for her, but what that plan is remains a mystery. Also, I don't think Twilight has forgotten her lessons on friendship as there were very few opportunities in Season 4 to be given the lesson, heck she's the one dishing it out in her few instances. It wasn't him figuring out but more that Twilight needed someone to understand the value of friendship taught from her in order for her to do it, which Discord provided. Heck there's a fan theory that Discord's betrayal was set up so they could get Twilight and her friends the box open, noted with Discord giving a wink to Celestia at the end.

On that we agree. Season 5 has a lot of potential with the new Rainbow Power and Twilight's palace. And there is a lot of room to expand in stuff like places outside of Equestria.

 

I have to agree that Twilight did deliver the morals on several episodes. Maybe I'm just seeing too much in Discord (of all characters, I just can't get over it!) leaving the markers in the journal for her to connect the dots. I just never expected her to need Discord's help in this. I feel like I'm whining about this... Twilight was supposed to be THE expert on the subject but I'll just let this go.

 

About this fan theory... People posted about that in the topic about the episode... But I guess this is getting off topic and I think that it would damage the moral of Discord realizing he was used and thrown away.

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On that we agree. Season 5 has a lot of potential with the new Rainbow Power and Twilight's palace. And there is a lot of room to expand in stuff like places outside of Equestria.

 

I have to agree that Twilight did deliver the morals on several episodes. Maybe I'm just seeing too much in Discord (of all characters, I just can't get over it!) leaving the markers in the journal for her to connect the dots. I just never expected her to need Discord's help in this. I feel like I'm whining about this... Twilight was supposed to be THE expert on the subject but I'll just let this go.

 

About this fan theory... People posted about that in the topic about the episode... But I guess this is getting off topic and I think that it would damage the moral of Discord realizing he was used and thrown away.

 

I wouldn't say used but a willing participant for the greater good if anything.

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