Bronies defying gender roles.... A bunch of nonsense?

[Freewave 1,145]

Yes and No....

 

Well a couple things. first MLP is SUPPOSED to be a gender neutral, all ages show. That said the toys and most of the marketing IS targetted to younger girls.  They are still the main focus. Also Equestria is a matriarchy and they are loaded with female characteres and very few male ones. When you're talking about current society yes its very much rejecting gender roles to like the show. Should it be that strange? No but it still is to a certain degree (in the US, less so Japan for example where anime is huge). Lotta work still to be done where society doesn't seem it weird to put down a football and pick up a miniature pony.

 

The fandom does celebrate the female / girly aspects of the show, focus on some of the tomboy elements (mainly Rainbow Dash fans), and some still sexualize and objectify the characters.  I mean there's bronies out there who may like MLP in a misogynistic way and not clue in at all to the overall feminist messsage but i hope that's rare.  I'm most of those people may like the show the regular way and sectionalize the rule 34 in a completely different "mode" of still appreciating the fannon. In the end we're still bucking the norm but at the same time some are finding ways of feeling very masculine in their ways of appreciating the show. There's no one size fits all.

[Banul 3,831]

 

But I've seen Bronies trying to defend their love for the show by pointing out how manly it supposedly is underneath the girly stuff.  Remember that Twilight vs. Tirek battle from the season 4 finale?  Half the comments on YouTube were something along the lines of "If it has an epic battle in it, there's no way it's for little girls", heavily implying that anything with a cool battle scene in it is automatically masculine and "proves" that the show can be for men as well.

 

I think dudes do that to try and defend their "man card" while still watching MLP. My man card was revoked long ago, I have no fear. 

 

Its a bit silly. Saying the MLP is totally manly and not for little girls kind of implies that it wouldn't be good otherwise. The whole point is that things for girls can be great too, that there doesn't have to be this rule where girls like ponies and princesses while boys like cars and fight scenes. Girls can like fight scenes and boys can like ponies. 

[Koukatsu 5,898]

I'm probably going to get a little backlash for this, but don't judge until you read the entire paragraph...

 

A lot of people, both inside and outside the fandom, talk about how male Bronies are basically defying gender roles.  They're watching a show about colorful ponies, after all, in a society where men are expected to like violence, blood, and boobs.  It's a good point, of course.  But what I've noticed is that male Bronies (most of them) aren't really defying gender roles at all.  Let me elaborate:  Yes, they watch a show full of colorful ponies, something thought to be for females only.  But I've seen Bronies trying to defend their love for the show by pointing out how manly it supposedly is underneath the girly stuff.  Remember that Twilight vs. Tirek battle from the season 4 finale?  Half the comments on YouTube were something along the lines of "If it has an epic battle in it, there's no way it's for little girls", heavily implying that anything with a cool battle scene in it is automatically masculine and "proves" that the show can be for men as well.  The same thing happens with all battle scenes in MLP that are posted on YouTube.  At least half of the comments are male Bronies trying to use the battle scene as proof that the show can be enjoyed by men.  In other words, they're just aiding the traditional idea that men are supposed to like violence and explosions, rather than pointing to the show at large and saying "This show is well-written".  I know not all Bronies are like this, but there are a decent few.  My main point is that not all Bronies are defying gender roles.  Quite a large number of them are just trying to make the show fit into their gender role.  

 

Your thoughts?  

I think, purely on your own examples, you are correct.

I also think that those ponies are just closet bronies, who probably only feel the need to defend themselves, because they surround themselves in the real world with anti-brony friends/family.

I watch MLP, and I talk about it openly if someone asks me about it, or (in the case I know the person well enough to make a judgement call) I'll talk about it if I think somepony can be converted to the fandom.

If somepony wants to try to be insulting, calling it "a show for little girls" and whatnot, I just mention all the times that the ponies who work on it have denied that very statement, and be on my way. If they choose to continue hating on bronies with that knowledge, I won't spend my time with them, I don't need to swim in a toxic lake, as it were.

 

I think I got a bit off track, my point was just that, I do think most bronies are viewed as "defying gender roles", because the show is viewed as "for little girls", despite the denials by those who've worked on the show. I think looking at the YouTube comments on the "most manly scenes" is just a poor way to judge a group. That, and, internet commentators on YT... *shudders*

 

Also, I don't really give a flying buck about gender roles, I like what I like, period.

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

That's actually completely incorrect: sex is determined by genetics, gender is a societal construct and as such has very much to do with the entertainment we consume.

 

No it's not. Trans-people and gender dysphoria wouldn't be things if it wasn't somewhat biological.

 

Gender-ROLES are constructs of society, Gender itself is not. 

[Solid 1,326]

I really don't care about Gender Roles, I just watch MLP because I enjoy it.

Same.

 

my gender role speaks for itself anyways.

[Commissar Alexer 763]

There's a reason for gender roles.

 

And it's biological.

 

 

Man goes hunting, woman stays home, caring for the young.

This is hard wired into most peoples brain or why do you think many woman find succesful men extremely desirable (good hunter)?

 

There are exceptions but those will be always exceptions.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Commissar Alexer

[GenderIsAnIllusion 2,177]

The way i see it is Gender roles is purely subjective, and something that will for the most part eventually phased out.... I hope to see that day.

[MooCowing 32]

What I personally don't get is... why is it okay for ME, a female, to watch DBZ and other "boy shows" but it is not okay for YOU, a male, to watch MLP? I've met bronies. Some are gay, some are straight, some I'm not entirely sure about. My ex (a manly man, the father of my daughter, Mr. Homophobe) admitted he liked "that silly little My Little Pony" show. He felt the need to belittle it first, but whatever boosts his ego. The fact was he would sit there for hours and watch it with me, and he even bought me the card game. He was fine with it in private. In public he would criticize anyone for being a brony, talk about his male brony friends behind their backs, call them gay.... Sometimes he'd even act ashamed of me for "obsessing over a show made for little girls". I just don't get why people feel the need to belittle what someone likes, even if it's not "the norm" for their gender. I know he isn't the only one. You like what you like and as long as you're not eating people, it's probably an okay hobby.

[Commissar Alexer 763]

What I personally don't get is... why is it okay for ME, a female, to watch DBZ and other "boy shows" but it is not okay for YOU, a male, to watch MLP? I've met bronies. Some are gay, some are straight, some I'm not entirely sure about. My ex (a manly man, the father of my daughter, Mr. Homophobe) admitted he liked "that silly little My Little Pony" show. He felt the need to belittle it first, but whatever boosts his ego. The fact was he would sit there for hours and watch it with me, and he even bought me the card game. He was fine with it in private. In public he would criticize anyone for being a brony, talk about his male brony friends behind their backs, call them gay.... Sometimes he'd even act ashamed of me for "obsessing over a show made for little girls". I just don't get why people feel the need to belittle what someone likes, even if it's not "the norm" for their gender. I know he isn't the only one. You like what you like and as long as you're not eating people, it's probably an okay hobby.

 

It's simple: Society (including women) despises weak men.

 

Woman doing man stuff is mostly irrelevant since they are mostly only required to bear children.

 

Yes, it's harsh but that's how the world runs.

[Dr. Frasier Crane 319]

True, and it also annoys me when Bronies try to take this point even further by saying "Oh, but it has adult references and jokes in it!!" ...Like what? Yeah, maybe it has a few subtle nods to aged movies and TV shows. So what? A lot of kids shows do that, and I can think of a billion other better examples of kids shows with jokes I'd call 'adult' in them. Wouldn't necessarily describe anything I've seen in MLP as 'adult'. 

 

Please, Bronies, just admit you enjoy the show for what it is, don't bother trying to justify why you like it to other people, just enjoy your pony show, dammit.

[MooCowing 32]

It's simple: Society (including women) despises weak men.

 

Woman doing man stuff is mostly irrelevant since they are mostly only required to bear children.

 

Yes, it's harsh but that's how the world runs.

I'd really like to know what planet you're from.

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

It's simple: Society (including women) despises weak men.

 

Woman doing man stuff is mostly irrelevant since they are mostly only required to bear children.

 

Yes, it's harsh but that's how the world runs.

 

Nature doesn't make it right, human's are also inherently violent but it doesn't men we shouldn't try to transcend that. 

[Commissar Alexer 763]

I'd really like to know what planet you're from.

From this one.

 

 

 

Nature doesn't make it right, human's are also inherently violent but it doesn't men we shouldn't try to transcend that.

 

Well, at earlier times it did. Thats the reason why we are succesful.

 

 

 

It is how it is and while we all try to change, its still an part of us.

 

Software may change but hardware is still the same.

[Fractured 2,683]

Most of the bronies you see online shouting about this are dealing with insecurities. When you don't feel comfortable enough with yourself to just not care what other people think, you're going to feel the need to defend yourself from them. Typical conversation:

 

A: God, you're so weird, why do you like a show for little girls?

 

To which the perfectly secure brony would reply:

"Because I can, and I want to."

 

And the insecure one would reply:

"But its not really for girls, look at all these fight scenes!"

 

I hate to say self-delusion, but there's not really a better word for it. Instead of accepting the truth of what they like, they'd rather lie to themselves in the hopes they can maintain the semblance of being "normal". Or maybe they're not lying to themselves, but lying to others to maintain the semblance of being "normal". Either way, I wonder why you would go through all of that stress...

[FoxyCryptid 4,327]

From this one.

 

 

 

Well, at earlier times it did. Thats the reason why we are succesful.

 

 

 

It is how it is and while we all try to change, its still an part of us.

 

Software may change but hardware is still the same.

 

That's one of nice things about being a Christian, since I believe in the human soul I also believe we're more than flesh and blood, and don't have to be slaves to raw instinct. 

[Dattebayo 2,850]

I dunno about all of that

I just really like the show

[Commissar Alexer 763]

That's one of nice things about being a Christian, since I believe in the human soul I also believe we're more than flesh and blood, and don't have to be slaves to raw instinct.

 

Dont have to be but yet most are.

[Felix 1,363]

Ugh. I wish gender roles didn't even exist. They stop people from expressing themselves

 

I couldn't care less. I enjoy mlp because i enjoy it, not because i think it's 'masculine in some secret hidden way'.

 

Also, the battle scene you speak of, a woman can be a badass also, and im not sure why it's always thought women can't be. Honestly, the prospect of a horned centaur man-thing shooting lasers is a far less terrifying prospect in my mind than a angry, pissed off, purple pony princess shooting bootleg kamehamehah's from her horn. So i enjoyed the battle scene in Twilight Kingdom not because i thought it was "masculine", but because it reminded me that "women are tough, scary tough".

 

But i can't speak for everyone, so maybe some bronies do think liking mlp is somehow 'secretly masculine'. Well, perhaps it just is, because being "masculine" is being a "man" correct? And last time i checked, a "man" shouldn't give a damn what people think on the subject of what tv show they watch and love.

Additionally this is pretty much how I feel about it.

Edited October 24, 2014 by Felix

[IJoinedForPonies 124]

It's the same concept of why gamers pick female characters in games instead of male characters if the gender has no bearing on the performance.

[Invincible 2,090]

I don't think it's defying gender roles as much as trying to justify it as something which it isn't. The show isn't really "manly" in any way, in my opinion. I think that for some reason these individuals you speak of are trying to present the show as something else, but they fail to understand that there is no special consequence they should watch out for.

 

I like the show because i think it's really good, not because i'm somehow getting a manly vibe off of it.

[Jeric 46,834]

 

Software may change but hardware is still the same.

 

Everything biological is chemical. When it comes to carbon based life, using the 'software and hardware' is a analogy is oversimplifying things. Furthermore, saying gender dysphoria is not a naturally bio-chemical process is a human societal convention - not a scientific one. 

 

 

I dunno about all of that
I just really like the show

 

Quoted for truth. This show contains many elements you would expect in any decent show. For example, if you are a fan of simplistic, but fluid forms of animation, you may love MLP. Gender functions are not a consideration there. 

[Revy ~ Two Hands 862]

Gender roles only exist so that companies can market to demographics that is literally the only reason they haven't disappeared.

[Adash 193]

I never thought of it that wsy, but now that you sayit, I agree with you,

[skysweep 541]

Im guessing this is a standard response people have.

 

When travelling into uncharted territory, you try to link it back to what you know, which is gender roles. So while it might not be that we are defying gender roles, it is a....best estimate at what we can describe such actions until we understand the situation better. Its in our psychological nature of building upon existing knowledge. Since in the modern world, a guy watching a girl's show was practically unheard of, it is unknown how we actually describe such an action. 

 

 

An analogy of this would be giving you an alien language to decipher. It uses symbols that no human culture ever used. It will be folly to try and leap straight into understanding the language. What a logical human would do is to bring in associations so they have a baseline for comparison. An example would be finding the symbol for "tree" and seeing how it matches to our language. 

 

So I would conclude that the line of defensive reasoning that the show is "manly" is simply an associative and protective measure.

[Celli 4,332]

In my opinion,gender roles shouldn't exist in the first place, and they are things that need to go away. Like, soon.