The worst pony argument/Lack of Empathy

[Buck Testa 5,503]

I'm sure we have all engaged in the debate of who is "Best Pony" either satirically or with the passion of a man going to battle at one point during our time talking about MLP. While I do not subscribe to the idea one is better than the rest and that they all have traits that I admire about them I can have lighthearted banter as to who the cutest is or who is mah waifu and what not. 

 

However there is a dark underbelly of these talks that I really do not care for. 

 

The worst pony argument

 

I rarely see this in mlpforums thank goodness, but it seeps its way into so many youtube comment sections and for me is far more glaring than any anti brony troll. The amount of hate and bile these people have for a fictional character makes absolutely no sense to me, especially when its directed at one of the mane six. Their interpretations of ponies like Fluttershy and RD are so skewed and narrow minded and their desire for them to suffer is just dark and disturbing for me, and this is coming from someone who likes horror fics. 

 

Like recently I had commented on  (Parody) Everything Wrong With Putting Your Hoof Down in 3 Minutes

 

 It was a fairly controversial episode where Flutters has her most infamous moment. I proposed as I did in this forum awhile back that this episode was a good thing and it helped build her character, and for the most part I was met with positive responses or respectful debate.

 

Here's one that ended really well (I'm "Youtube, all I want to do is watch a video, stop making me update")

 

 

 

Then as it always happens someone comes in and throws his worst pony mentality into the ring. Not only that but attacking the writer of the episode as well. 

 

Here's a snip of that part 

 

 

 

 

Whatever points this Seraphem may have are almost voided by the sheer negativity his posts were just exuding. Like olserknam there pointed out he "wanted to see it that way"

 

And that is exactly what is wrong with the worst pony argument. They WANT to see a character or an episode or whatever in the worst light and not allow themselves to see any good in it. 

 

It really makes me think whenever I get really mad about something "Am I allowing the way I feel to cloud my perception on things, is what I am thinking accurate or do I need to look at the situation closer" 

 

In fact you could draw a parallel between the concept of worst pony or rash judgement to Putting your hoof down itself. 

 

Think about it; When Fluttershy was being assertive, she was operating under the concept that everything was out to get her, and because of that that is how she perceived her world even when that wasn't always the case. She may think like this all the time, but she was taking an active aggressive role to deal with it as supposed to a timid and shy one. She was responding to a world she thought was volatile and against her , not being able to see friend from foe in the heat of the moment. 

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3LRucoIcmww

 

Now take the mindset of worst pony, where you perceive this character as a bad individual worthy of contempt. You would not be able to see positive qualities, and negative qualities would stand out in glaring relief. 

 

Without Empathy, without stepping back and really looking at what is going on, they would continue to operate with that mindset and even get worse. Fluttershy did end up seeing that her viewpoint was wrong, at least in part, and it helped them patch up the friendship. 

 

Without empathy, things like the worst pony argument easily can pop up because they refuse to see the other side of the story or see the positive aspects of the character. 

 

If there is anything I can take away from this, its that the way we see the world is not always the way the world is. If you do not try to put yourself in the characters shoes and empathize with the way they see the situation you won't be able to move from a narrow minded viewpoint like "worst pony." This is also prevalent to me because I have found myself in situations where I am irrationally mad at someone and refused to see their side of the story much like Fluttershy and I learned over time what to look for in myself if I get that way again. I usually go to a third party and talk it out with them, putting the feelings in perspective with reality. 

 

What are your thoughts on this? 

[Ridley Wolf 291]

When people decide, for whatever reason, that they dislike a character, they tend to focus only on the negative aspects of that character.

Admittedly, I've been guilty of it myself.

 

The problem with this attitude is the fact that character development exists.

As the characters are developed, new strengths and flaws are introduced.

This means that the people who hate a particular character are given new reasons to hate them, while ignoring any positive development.

It's a vicious cycle.

 

As for the whole "Worst Pony" thing, of course there's a worst pony.

In any group of dissimilar objects or individuals, there will always be one that's inferior to the rest.

Of course, as inferiority is matter of perception, it is unlikely that there will ever be a consensus as to which pony is truly the worst.

[Manman20x6 359]

My "worst pony" is Flash Sentry. When I dislike a character, it's not because they're unsympathetic or mean, it's because they're poorly developed and boring.

 

So far, Flash Sentry has done exactly one plot-relevant action over the course of two full-length movies. That thing (Proving Twilight's innocence to Celestia and Luna) could have been done by any random background character. In fact, I imagine that the scene would have been even better if a fan-favorite background pony had been put into the spotlight for these few minutes.

 

During Rainbow Rocks, he does literally nothing at all. He's said to be a good guitarist, so why didn't he get a song?

 

Aside from that, he serves as a shallow pseudo-love interest whose relationship with Twilight Sparkle can be summed up as "making her blush when he's in her proximity". She just kinda fell in love at first sight, and nothing else happens between them. He exists only because a high-school movie needs a cute boy to act as a love interest for the protagonist. In other words, he's literally a walking cliché.

 

It doesn't matter that he's a nice kid who only acted mean when he was under demonic possession. If he doesn't offer anything interesting, that is enough to make him Worst Pony.

[CC_Maud_Pie 6,431]

I've been thinking about that one scene with Fluttershy lately and I've noticed that when talking about that scene, there was little to no empathy; several members were offended (especially Rarity and Pinkie Pie fans) and turned against her without showing some understanding of the situation. Fluttershy's my favorite Mane 6 pony but I don't think she's perfect and while that moment was mean, I understood why she ended up acting that way; she got terrible advice on how to be assertive, and I, Pinkie Pie, and Rarity forgive her for doing it because she ended up regretting it and she's mostly a kind pony. To put it in other words, Fluttershy's a pony worthy of forgiveness because she's done enough good things. Not only Fluttershy, but the rest of the Mane 6 and several other non-antagonistic ponies are worthy of forgiveness because they've all done enough to earn it. I think part of the reason why some members are like this is because a good number of them have Aspergers or have some form of autism and people believe that people with that condition struggle with empathy. I myself have Asperger's and I struggle with empathy but I'm working on it. Another thing is what it's called tribalism; members group together to look for the bad in other ponies to prove that their favorite pony is the best. You can't expect everypony in Equestria, good or bad, to be perfect. That'll be very boring. If nopony has both a good and bad side, then it'll also be boring. Also, don't call Fluttershy "Flutterbitch" because of that one mess-up. It's more of an insult than something funny.

Edited January 12, 2015 by CC_Maud_Pie

[Banul 3,831]

Wish people would stop hating on Flutters so much for that episode. As someone who has a similarly timid and quiet personality and who has been bullied in the past, it makes sense to me that Fluttershy would have a lot of anger somewhere inside. When somebody gives you the keys to the confidence kingdom, its natural that some of the anger is going to flow out to whatever outlet it can.

 

Everybody has moments when the worst of them comes out. Doesn't mean we should hate them for it. In my mind, it makes them more relatable characters.

[High Step 46]

My feeling of the episode is that it simply shows we can all slip, no one is perfect and we do make mistakes, can we forgive ourselves when such an error in judgement occurs? Can we be forgiven by others?

 

Can we apologize for such an outburst? To me, that was what the whole episode spoke of.

 

Sure we make mistakes but we can also say "I'm sorry".

Edited January 12, 2015 by High Step

[KatonRyu 1,026]

My feeling of the episode is that it simply shows we can all slip, no one is perfect and we do make mistakes, can we forgive ourselves when such an error in judgement occurs? Can we be forgiven by others?

 

Can we apologize for such an outburst? To me, that was what the whole episode spoke of.

 

Sure we make mistakes but we can also say "I'm sorry".

 

The problem with saying sorry, though, is that the other person needs to be willing to accept it too. We, by which I mean the people on this forum, give things like this a lot of thought and we relate it to the world around us. However even we can easily be caught up in our own emotions and respond way out of line. At moments like that, an apology would not get through to us because the 'peace offering' doesn't satisfy us at those moments. External factors like stress and fatigue play into this as well.

 

I've noticed that certain people (who shall remain unnamed even though they're not on this forum) become completely unwilling to see reason in certain situations and will not accept anything said to them, at all. That's not because they lack empathy, but more due to fatigue and stress just bringing out the worst in them. I myself am certainly not immune to that and I've been irrationally angry at people. It's taken me up to ten minutes to start reasoning again and realizing my reactions were exaggerated.

 

Sadly, online people care even less about each other because there are no repercussions to being toxic in a comment section. Bans really don't scare anyone. Put on the spot, they'll show empathy, I think, but some people just enjoy being hurtful and in their mind objective reason isn't necessary because 'they're right anyway'.

 

In relation to MLP, well, some people like the characters as more than just great characters. I can understand that, but a negative consequence of this is that any harm that comes to that character is met with immediate hatred and the call for blood will drown out the voice of reason. To people who know themselves to be like this (in certain cases I count myself among you): try to take a step back and view the bigger picture. You cannot help your favorite character by slandering others. They will deal with the situation themselves because of the nature of this show.

 

Keep calm and carry on.

[Soaring Symphony 372]

My "worst pony" is Flash Sentry. When I dislike a character, it's not because they're unsympathetic or mean, it's because they're poorly developed and boring.

 

So far, Flash Sentry has done exactly one plot-relevant action over the course of two full-length movies. That thing (Proving Twilight's innocence to Celestia and Luna) could have been done by any random background character. In fact, I imagine that the scene would have been even better if a fan-favorite background pony had been put into the spotlight for these few minutes.

 

During Rainbow Rocks, he does literally nothing at all. He's said to be a good guitarist, so why didn't he get a song?

 

Aside from that, he serves as a shallow pseudo-love interest whose relationship with Twilight Sparkle can be summed up as "making her blush when he's in her proximity". She just kinda fell in love at first sight, and nothing else happens between them. He exists only because a high-school movie needs a cute boy to act as a love interest for the protagonist. In other words, he's literally a walking cliché.

 

It doesn't matter that he's a nice kid who only acted mean when he was under demonic possession. If he doesn't offer anything interesting, that is enough to make him Worst Pony.

About Flash Senty, I really didn't have any problems with the character.  Ok, I'll admit, he could have been developed better in EqG.  But that entire movie was and irredeemable pile of horse manure and not just Flash Sentry.  While it was kind of a missed opperotunity, I fine with just letting it slide.  As for his appearence in Rainbow Rocks, there was a reason he didn't get developement in that movie.  He wasn't the focus of the plot.  His purpose in that film was to show how the dazling's magic was slowly corrupting the students of Canterlot High.  Each time we saw Flash in RR, he got progressively more jerkish then the last.  

If I had to pick a worst pony, I'd actually have to go with a duo.  Snips and Snails.  in each of their multiple appearences, they have done nothing but mess everything up.  Flash Sentry might be bland but at least he has the potential to be a likable character with some more developement.  Snips and Snails on the other hand, not so much.  They have never done anything but cause trouble for everypony else and, unlike the oh so lovable  Derpy, it's not just because thier clumsy.  instead they're litterally complete retards.  I would elaborate further, but this guy did the job better then I could.

 

 Also, don't call Fluttershy "Flutterbitch" because of that one mess-up. It's more of an insult than something funny.

I always thought the term "Flutterbitch" refered to Fluttershy when she was Discorded and acted cruelly.  It's kind of like the terms "Flutterbat" or "Flutterhulk".  It just refers to that one moment, not the character herself.

Edited February 1, 2015 by The thoughtful brony

[Buck Testa 5,503]

My "worst pony" is Flash Sentry. When I dislike a character, it's not because they're unsympathetic or mean, it's because they're poorly developed and boring.

 

So far, Flash Sentry has done exactly one plot-relevant action over the course of two full-length movies. That thing (Proving Twilight's innocence to Celestia and Luna) could have been done by any random background character. In fact, I imagine that the scene would have been even better if a fan-favorite background pony had been put into the spotlight for these few minutes.

 

During Rainbow Rocks, he does literally nothing at all. He's said to be a good guitarist, so why didn't he get a song?

 

Aside from that, he serves as a shallow pseudo-love interest whose relationship with Twilight Sparkle can be summed up as "making her blush when he's in her proximity". She just kinda fell in love at first sight, and nothing else happens between them. He exists only because a high-school movie needs a cute boy to act as a love interest for the protagonist. In other words, he's literally a walking cliché.

 

It doesn't matter that he's a nice kid who only acted mean when he was under demonic possession. If he doesn't offer anything interesting, that is enough to make him Worst Pony.

 

I might have to make a topic on this following point: Did you know the voice actor for flash actually (Vincent Tong) was interested in the fandom and wants to be a part of it, but because of the sheer amount of hate the character receives he feels worried that he won't ever be truly accepted? He's a nice guy, does parkour, has voiced in several other popular shows and anime including Death Note, and he would be a really cool guy to show the diversity of the fandom. He's fustrated with what the writers do with his character as well, in one interview with Dustykatt he even said he questioned if certain lines were a good idea. 

 

Why do I bring this up? Vincent wants to play a character who can get accepted by the fandom, but the fandom has already written him off. If the fandom has already written him off the writers don't see a need to make him a more developed character. If he doesn't get more developed then Flash will never get a chance to get fleshed out and Vincent will continue to be shut out. In other words the fandom is going to end up turning away a potential brony because of something that is entirely out of his control. 

 

Peoples words and actions, peoples lack of empathy for what they do and say on the internet have consequences. I've done it too, but I'm not going to bash Flash anymore but implore the writers make a better and more interesting character out of him, and not write him off as "Worst pony"

 

That is the entire point of this; To show that the worst pony mentality is flawed and destructive. 

[CC_Maud_Pie 6,431]

I always thought the term "Flutterbitch" refered to Fluttershy when she was Discorded and acted cruelly.  It's kind of like the terms "Flutterbat" or "Flutterhulk".  It just refers to that one moment, not the character herself.

Here's the thing, "bitch" is an insult compared to "bat" and "hulk". Insults are never good no matter what. As for nicknaming Fluttershy in PYHD, I prefer "nasty" Fluttershy because that's what the show originally calls her and "Discorded" Fluttershy for her discorded moment. Also, some people call her "Flutterbitch" for both the discorded moment AND the PYHD moment. So it's not just the discorded moment.

Edited February 3, 2015 by CC_Maud_Pie