98 replies to this topic

[hironakamura]

In Boast Busters, Twi said that most unicorns only have a few spells that relate to their special talents. All unicorns seem to have levitation and simple things like that, but other than that, they don't know much else. Take Rarity, for example; we've only really seen her use two spells, the gem finder and the illusions.
Also, in Boast Buster, Spike talked about how impressive and odd it was that Twi could use so many different spells, and she said that the reason she could use so many spells was probably because her talent is magic itself.

The show isn't really known for consistency. My point is, why would Star Swirl write his spells down on scrolls and books if nobody could learn them other than Twilight?

I think every unicorn has some kind of default spell they're born with related to their talent. In this case, Rarity was born with her gem find spell so she is the spell's inventor while Twilight is the inventor of the teleport spell (at least we haven't seen any unicorns use this spell yet).

The way I see it, as a unicorn's talent grows and requires more demanding tasks completed, they begin to study spells related to their skill. I think Rarity studied illusion and transformation spells (Look Before you Sleep) for the sake of beautification because that is her talent. Even though Rarity could learn say, an invisibility spell, she wouldn't have any use for it and the time and effort that went into learning the spell would just be a waste of time.

Think of Twi as a mixed martial artist while Rarity is purely dedicated to one fighting style.

Edited by hironakamura, 12 May 2012 - 06:15 PM.

[Skullbuster]

twilight could destroy entire worlds if she wanted to


in all seriousness though id rank her above advrage in magical power

[Marcusaralius76]

I think everyone seems to forget that Twilight is in her 20's. Some of the other characters mentioned here are well-over a thousand years old. I honestly think the finale of the series will end with her gaining full control of her powers and her growing to the level of or above Celestia and the other alicorns.

[Evilshy]

The show isn't really known for consistency. My point is, why would Star Swirl write his spells down on scrolls and books if nobody could learn them other than Twilight?

What I meant was, not every unicorn is powerful or skillful enough to use a lot of spells. Most only have the basics, and a few spells relating to their talent.
We've seen Twi pull off magical feats that most other unicorns couldn't, such as all that stuff she did to fend off the ursa minor. In Sonic Rainboom, she specifically stated that the flight spell was really difficult, and that it was too difficult to perform more than once. Obviously some spells, by there very nature, are harder and require more skill/power. Technically, I guess any unicorn could learn the spell, but very few would be able to actually use it, especially at Twi's age. Starswirl the Bearded's very title (the bearded) implies that he was pretty old when he became famous. In all likelyhood, if a pony were to study magic their whole lives, they could become quite powerful (if they had some natural ability as well; I'm sure Starswirl had a lot of magical talent naturally).
The fact that Twi's special talent is magic gives her the skill and power to use high level magic at a young age. And I would say she can even use magic now that most unicorns couldn't ever. Like the time spells; I doubt just any unicorn could pull those off.

I think every unicorn has some kind of default spell they're born with related to their talent. In this case, Rarity was born with her gem find spell so she is the spell's inventor while Twilight is the inventor of the teleport spell (at least we haven't seen any unicorns use this spell yet).

The way I see it, as a unicorn's talent grows and requires more demanding tasks completed, they begin to study spells related to their skill. I think Rarity studied illusion and transformation spells (Look Before you Sleep) for the sake of beautification because that is her talent. Even though Rarity could learn say, an invisibility spell, she wouldn't have any use for it and the time and effort that went into learning the spell would just be a waste of time.

The way I see it is that they have a natural affinity with magic relating to their special talent. A unicorn with some skill level is able to use magic they normally wouldn't if it wasn't related to their talent. They still have to learn magic, but spells related to their talent come easier to them.
Imagine if it was an RPG; a fireball spell might require you to be level 9, but you have a bonus that lets you use higher level fire spells, so you could use fireball at level 6 instead. Rarity was pulling off some fairly complicated illusions, and based on what else she does with magic, I doubt she'd be able to do that if it wasn't related to fabulousitizing things.

Edited by Evilshy, 12 May 2012 - 08:43 PM.

[hironakamura]

What I meant was, not every unicorn is powerful or skillful enough to use a lot of spells. Most only have the basics, and a few spells relating to their talent.
We've seen Twi pull off magical feats that most other unicorns couldn't, such as all that stuff she did to fend off the ursa minor. In Sonic Rainboom, she specifically stated that the flight spell was really difficult, and that it was too difficult to perform more than once. Obviously some spells, by there very nature, are harder and require more skill/power. Technically, I guess any unicorn could learn the spell, but very few would be able to actually use it, especially at Twi's age. Starswirl the Bearded's very title (the bearded) implies that he was pretty old when he became famous. In all likelyhood, if a pony were to study magic their whole lives, they could become quite powerful (if they had some natural ability as well; I'm sure Starswirl had a lot of magical talent naturally).
The fact that Twi's special talent is magic gives her the skill and power to use high level magic at a young age. And I would say she can even use magic now that most unicorns couldn't ever. Like the time spells; I doubt just any unicorn could pull those off.

This is really the Sasuke vs Naruto theory. Who is a better learner; the super genius or the super diligent? For me, they're on equal footing. A unicorn doesn't need to be super talented to learn or use a complicated spell, they just need to be dedicated in learning and using it. Unicorns like Rarity or even Sweetie Belle can learn and use any spell they want but they're better off learning ones only relevant to their skill set. Its not that they can't learn or use the spells, its more of they have no use for it or doesn't go with their style.

For me, I think Twilight only looks powerful because she's had more focus than other unicorns. Take those unicorn royal guards for instance. They're battle mages trained and militarized to use their magic to fight but we've never really seen them in action. I bet once we do see them fight, they're very powerful.

Edited by hironakamura, 12 May 2012 - 09:46 PM.

[Sne]

For me, I think Twilight only looks powerful because she's had more focus than other unicorns. Take those unicorn royal guards for instance. They're battle mages trained and militarized to use their magic to fight but we've never really seen them in action. I bet once we do see them fight, they're very powerful.

Twilight was a magic gatling gun the same time all royal guards were incapacitated in Royal Wedding.

From those pictures, those are not exactly lies.
1. Twi is not Spike's mommy despite the hatching, she's his boss and he's her assistant.
2. Pinkie pie was still itty bitty little little just after she saw the rainbow. Also we didn't see what happened when the rock farm was covered in snow.
3. Gilda not appearing in an out of context shot doesn't prove anything and Dashie-Fluttershy friendship might have been just in the very beginnings.
4,5. Twi throws some nonsense about magic, but we know past events are not wrong, but her words, as involuntary magic is everywhere, like her bursting into flames or pegasi walking on clouds. It may be assumed that she differentiates between several types of magic output and calls only voluntary one 'magic', but she'd oversimplify things and it'd still be nonsense. Unreliable narrator.
6. Pinkie Pie is nuts. She's totally unreliable as a narrator

[Evilshy]

This is really the Sasuke vs Naruto theory. Who is a better learner; the super genius or the super diligent? For me, they're on equal footing. A unicorn doesn't need to be super talented to learn or use a complicated spell, they just need to be dedicated in learning and using it. Unicorns like Rarity or even Sweetie Belle can learn and use any spell they want but they're better off learning ones only relevant to their skill set. Its not that they can't learn or use the spells, its more of they have no use for it or doesn't go with their style.

If we're going by naruto analogies, there are still techniques that other characters can't use because they lack the power or chakra to do so. For example, very few ninjas can use multiple shadow clone jutsu like naruto can, simply because it requires such huge amounts of chakra to work, and few ninjas have that much.
I suppose all unicorns could learn a spell, but they are still limited by their magical power. If they studied for years, they might be able to learn to use their magic more efficiently and cast more advanced spells, but there would still be a limit, and they would never be as powerful as a unicorn who had studied and equal amount, but was naturally more powerful, such as Twilight.

For me, I think Twilight only looks powerful because she's had more focus than other unicorns. Take those unicorn royal guards for instance. They're battle mages trained and militarized to use their magic to fight but we've never really seen them in action. I bet once we do see them fight, they're very powerful.

Well, yes. A unicorn who was most likely selected for strength (among other things) and then trained for battle would be very powerful. But Twi is powerful without specific training. She just reads spell books and practices on her own time.
Would you say a professional boxer wasn't a good fighter simply because Bruce Lee could kick his ass? (assuming he was still alive, of course )

[thesilence23]

SUPER POWERFUL!

Edited by thesilence23, 13 May 2012 - 07:40 AM.

[Sne]

SUPER POWERFUL!

[Dave247]

If we're going by naruto analogies, there are still techniques that other characters can't use because they lack the power or chakra to do so. For example, very few ninjas can use multiple shadow clone jutsu like naruto can, simply because it requires such huge amounts of chakra to work, and few ninjas have that much.
I suppose all unicorns could learn a spell, but they are still limited by their magical power. If they studied for years, they might be able to learn to use their magic more efficiently and cast more advanced spells, but there would still be a limit, and they would never be as powerful as a unicorn who had studied and equal amount, but was naturally more powerful, such as Twilight.

I think the idea of something like a mana pool makes sense but I think that's mostly tied to energy as well like stamina I guess.
In this sense you could say Twilight has the largest mana pool out of all the ponies but not the most stamina which is why she gets tired after casting complex spells.
She does not also have the most strength either and Celestia would have more strength then her which is why she can cast more powerful spells then Twilight like clearing Twilight's want-it need-it spell and raising the sun. It is unknown though how much energy raising the sun requires of her however but I'm guessing not a lot as she does it every day and would keep getting better at it.
Basically I'm looking at it is statistically with who has what number for each attribute. Like in RPGs and MMOs.

[Sne]

Twilight Sparkle casts interesting spells even without thinking where others have to focus. In the very first episode Twi transmutes a green apple into a red apple while chewing it. She bursts into flames when she's angry or eating something spicy and it's not likely just an artistic measure as they don't usually leave sooty marks behind. She casts some weird spell at the library door every time she goes in or out. She's overflowing with magic.

[Vega]

I think everyone seems to forget that Twilight is in her 20's. Some of the other characters mentioned here are well-over a thousand years old. I honestly think the finale of the series will end with her gaining full control of her powers and her growing to the level of or above Celestia and the other alicorns.

Finale? Dude, it won't take that long. That will happen way before the show ends. And she won't simply get more powerful; she'll transform in to an alicorn. I'd be willing to bet a kidney on it.

[WingedRatchet]

This one pic.... Ruined my life

[Thunder Knight]

Finale? Dude, it won't take that long. That will happen way before the show ends. And she won't simply get more powerful; she'll transform in to an alicorn. I'd be willing to bet a kidney on it.

Why does everybody say kidney? How about a pancreas or a bladder or a lung or..... something other than a kidney(or a liver)

[hironakamura]

This one pic.... Ruined my life

There's actually two of those...

[WingedRatchet]

There's actually two of those...

STOP! STOP NOW

[doodlidoo]

I'd like to compare these levels of forces to one of my favorite book series: Harry Dresden.

Celestia, Luna, Cadance, and Discord are almost not even comparable to normal ponies. They are monstrously powerful. They are forces of nature, Faerie Queens and Lords, the quintessence of Day, Night, Music, and Chaos. (Totally making up the Music thing for Cadance; personal theory is that Alicorn's special thing is always something elemental)

Chrysalis is a monster who got hold of a supernatural amount of her own power source, which allowed her to overpower Celestia. She's pretty surprised by that fact when it happens.

Then we have our mane six. They are comparable to your normal hero level characters. Twilight is pretty damn powerful, possibly one of the most powerful unicorns in existence, but she is still a normal pony. she tips the scale for awesome and is remarkably resilient and adaptable, but she is still limited. And she is connected to an ancient artifact of ancient power, but she is still a normal pony.

Trying to make a logic chart of who beat who with what when is a common method of determining "power levels" in a show, but there are two problems with doing stuff like that.

1.) The victories and defeats of any given character are ultimately plot driven. Celestia went down like a punk for two reasons. First so she could be a Worf Barrage, and second so she would be out of the way for the actual story to occur. Remember the reaction when everyone was wondering where Luna was that whole episode. Now imagine if Celestia had just sat around watching. Like at the Flyer's Competition when Dash had to save Rarity and three of the Wonder Bolts by herself and Celestia was right there with her stupid freaking magic.

2.) The victories and defeats of any given character are almost always circumstantial. In a knock down, drag out fight on even ground, Discord would beat everyone. But no one fights that way. If you are in a real fist fight, you grab the nearest piece of blunt ouchie causing rigid material you can put you hands on to give you the advantage. The same goes for magical battles. Celestia and Luna couldn't beat Discord, so they got the Elements and beat him with those. Discord couldn't beat the Elements so he undermined the mane six to make them ineffective. And on and on and on.

With those two factors taken together, there's no telling "how powerful" any character is, except to classify them into tiers maybe. Discord and the Alicorns are in the Epic Forces Tier. Chrys is in the Paragon Tier. The Mane Six are in the Heroic tier. Or something like that.

[Sne]

There's actually two of those...

1. Applejack is shown without cutie mark, so what exactly is there to flag as a lie?
2. Was the colt in Dashie's class? If not, it's not a lie.
3. Fluttershy is not Dashie's sibling.
4. Unreliable narrator. He was an egg.
5. Granny Pie seems to have passed away
6. Unreliable. Again. Being the bully it might be a lie from his side.

Twilight is pretty damn powerful, possibly one of the most powerful unicorns in existence, but she is still a normal pony. she tips the scale for awesome and is remarkably resilient and adaptable, but she is still limited. And she is connected to an ancient artifact of ancient power, but she is still a normal pony.

Just like anyone ever was still a normal [insert species here], it's irrelevant as it doesn't relate to anyone's power. She could be a horned frog and still have the magic. Anyway, come on, read that quote again. She is intelligent, knowledgeable, has power beyond imagination of most ponies, access to and ability to use most impressive spells and artifacts and a dragon assistant... that's not exactly normal.

Edited by Sne, 15 May 2012 - 09:56 AM.

[hironakamura]

1. Applejack is shown without cutie mark, so what exactly is there to flag as a lie?
2. Was the colt in Dashie's class? If not, it's not a lie.
3. Fluttershy is not Dashie's sibling.
4. Unreliable narrator. He was an egg.
5. Granny Pie seems to have passed away
6. Unreliable. Again. Being the bully it might be a lie from his side.

Well, I didn't make them. Its funny when people try to rebut them. I don't understand the first 1 either but the colts in number 2 are the bullies that call RD Rainbow Crash. They all went to that pegasus flying school thing so its assumed they're all classmates. Number 3's point wasn't about RD and Fluttershy being siblings but about Faust saying RD's personality towards a hypothetical sibling. Number 5 wasn't about Granny Pie, it was about smiling or laughing. Number 6, who was lying, RD or the bully? Within the episode, they both kind of agreed with each other that Sonic Rainboom was nothing but a legend.

Number 4, Spike has pictures of his egg shell, though and its strange his earliest memories include his birth. Then again, dragons from Eragon are self aware even while still in eggs.

Edited by hironakamura, 15 May 2012 - 11:10 PM.

[Sne]

"its assumed they're all classmates"
It's assumed... well, I assume it's wrong assumption. *shrug*
Especially that bullies are usually older than their targets.

"hypothetical sibling"
Yes, but we don't have any sibling, just a classmate. The statement wasn't about "hypothetical classmate" and it's illogical to extend it. Intuitive, maybe.

"Granny Pie, it was about smiling or laughing"
Imagine the farm with Granny Pie. There was smiling and laughing. Then Granny Pie passes away. No more smiling and laughing.

"dragons from Eragon are self aware even while still in eggs."
So the egg could be purple and green from the inside when illuminated from the outside.

The makers of the pictures just forced everything to fit their idea that they lie, throwing away alternatives even if obvious.

And... Rainbow Dash simply says that she couldn't repeat the event, she doesn't say it never happened. And we know it did happen from Applejack (honesty) They being bullies, incredibly dumb ("Rainbow... uh... uh... Crash!") and probably highly biased toward skepticism doesn't make their statements more convincing at all.

Edited by Sne, 16 May 2012 - 11:07 PM.