163 replies to this topic

[Titan Rising]

And what if you just want to ask someone a simple question? Maybe even for clarification? Are those questions not worthy of a "discussion forum" if they're under 100 characters?

You guys say this is a discussion forum and not facebook or skype, but that's not even really a relevant point to make. You're assuming that no post can add anything to a discussion or even that it's not worthy of the discussion if it's under 100 characters and that's simply not true at all.

No, this isn't skype, but I don't see anyone acting like it's skype. Even if someone says "I agree with this post", so what? They've offered their opinion which is generally what people are supposed to do on a forum, no? They offer their opinion and leave the thread, that DOES count for something - maybe not something of substance but it is SOMETHING.

You guys act like every post on these forums is supposed to somehow evolve the conversation. Well let me ask you this - if you guys want posts to be filled with substance rather than just opinions, than why not filter out and delete every post of every argument that repeats a similar point. If one person says "I don't like this because of _____" and the next person repeats the exact same thing to make the character limit then whats the difference if the second person just said "I agree with the above post"

I thought forums were supposed to be a fun place where people can share opinions, not a place where people are expected to meet a requirement or their opinion isn't valued - which I feel is an absolutely horrible thing for a mod of all people to say by the way

[ProjectRKA]

First off, the limit was discussed thoroughly. And the entire staff agreed

Yeah... the staff probably agreed, but what about the forums users ? It sounds like we have no say at all in this matter...

[Bohtty]

Well, you could share how you found the desktop wallpaper. You could also share a few words about your computer, operating system, some software that you're running, any special widgets that you have visible on your desktop.

"This is my desktop. I don't remember where I got the wallpaper. I have microsoft word and photoshop as you can see from the icons. Obviously it's windows 7. I'm not running any software because I wanted you to see the wallpaper. No widgets."

I see your point, it does indeed add a lot to my wallpaper desktop post.

I'll be honest, I couldn't care less for these uninformative posts, and neither do many people honestly read them and feel any bit more wiser after it. Because no one feels the need to do any bloody discussing on a discussion forum. It is after all why we are all here.

Your right. I just looked up "discussion" in the dictionary and it said in parenthesis next to it "must be a minimum of 100 characters"

If you feel the need to make very short uninteresting replies, take it to Facebook or the Skype chat room.

Ok in all seriousness on this one. I should not have to go to two different websites and an additional program JUST to do things that I should be able to do on ONE website.

I'm not saying we should ditch the limit, but sometimes less than 100 character really does do the job.

[Tom The Diamond]

Even if someone says "I agree with this post", so what? They've offered their opinion which is generally what people are supposed to do on a forum, no? They offer their opinion and leave the thread, that DOES count for something - maybe not something of substance but it is SOMETHING.

If all you want to say is "I agree with this post" then you're simply better off Brohoofing that post instead of making another post. The brohoof feature exists so that you can show your love of somepony's post without making another post.

Edited by Trixie The Trixie, 02 August 2012 - 03:30 PM.

[SylveonBL]

What was the exact way of determining that 100 was the best option anyway? I'm fine with the character limit, but how was it decided?

[Haven]

I agree with this so much. I actually tried to explain something like this in the original thread about the minimum, but I failed horribly cause I suck at explaining stuff. ;-;

[Tich]

@ProjectRKA, when registering, it was never agreed that this was a democracy or that anyone had an actual vote to begin with. The staff was chose by Feld0 because of the fact that we can hold such discourse in a civil manner. If all forum decisions were up to the users and a vote, no one would agree to have anything added which may change something which could be seen as worse.

@, first off, posting "I agree" or anything of similar conversational value on the forums as a post should really be considered to be brohoof, it is a feature implemented to reward good posting or making a point you like.

Secondly although all your bickering that opinions are all well and good and add to discussion, that seems to be your own opinion because you are the ones doing it. I for one do not enjoy reading people's opinions and feeling left in the dark about why someone feels a certain way. It can never be justified to say "I think Rainbow Dash is the best pony" is considered valuable discussion. Often times these could merely be polls anyway, because there is no point in having someone take three seconds to type out such nonsense. Yet you do.

Remember, you post responses in a text field, capable of carrying around a million characters and new lines and formatting. Yet all this discussion is about is "let's be like Twitter". There really is no reason why people are ignoring the function of the forums and the tools provided to assist the reason we are here.

It should be a good thing to read out other people's replies and discuss what they have to to say.

@Bohtty, your points are ridiculous. both of them, there is no reason why any of this would be considered annoying or impossible to manage, modern browsers have tabs and favourites, and all computers now can multitask. I don't see how it is a problem to use several things at once. I do it, and you probably do it for a lot of things as well.

Also, I looked up discussion, and it mentions talking to other people about a single subject. Not all yelling your opinion next to each other. No where was that mentioned.

@, Simply the length of the post that was created rounded to a good number. I mean it could have been 107., which is a Mersenne Prime. But around that length is fine.

Edited by Tich, 02 August 2012 - 03:39 PM.

[Suigintou]

Ah yes, I remember speaking of this ANNOYING RULE with RBL at one point.
40-50 characters should suffice. We're wading in the zone of pointless filler here because no one gives a damn about posting 100 characters, which means more work for the mods having to delete all the crap.
And maybe shorten RP ones to a hundred characters because I'm sick of adding random stuff about my character to fill up that gap.
Keeping it is an inconvenience. If you really feel the need to that's fine by me, it's all right, but it's just making members angry and causing strife.
And it gives the impression that if you can't type 100 characters you don't have anything worth saying, which is SO TOTALLY NOT TRUE.

Edited by PinkieDaShy.avi, 02 August 2012 - 03:41 PM.

[Whiteshade]

I agree with this so much. I actually tried to explain something like this in the original thread about the minimum, but I failed horribly cause I suck at explaining stuff. ;-;

You have to learn to articulate, and gut your enemies at the first sign of weakness.

Also, I repeat that I will agree with this, I will repeat until all allegations of my opinion being invalid are rescinded.

[SylveonBL]

@Tich Well that sounds interesting to say the least...Whats with this @ thing anyway? When did this show up?

Edit: So I can't do it apparently.

Edited by Bandana RaccoonBLee, 02 August 2012 - 03:44 PM.

[Bohtty]

@Tich
It is true that I multi task and often have multiple things open, however when I posted pictures of my screenshot 99% of everything I had open, I closed. The reason? I'm not there to discuss my applications, I'm there to see what other people's desktop looks like. None of this is "impossible" to manage. It is annoying though. I've not posted at least 5 times this week just because I dont reach the limit. I'm here to discuss freely not to sit at my keyboard and think for 5 hours how I could word something differently to meet the limit. That kind of thing is for papers, not the MLP forum I post on.

Posting their opinions is discussing the topic at hand which is the thing they have an opinion on. So yes people posting their opinion one after another IS discussing because they are discussing the thing they have an opinion on.

@Tich Well that sounds interesting to say the least...Whats with this @ thing anyway? When did this show up?

Edit: So I can't do it apparently.

if you double click a word in someones post then it brings up a small window that should explain everything.

Edited by Bohtty, 02 August 2012 - 03:46 PM.

[Lady Rarity Pony]

I think some of you mods have entirely missed the point.

I didn’t claim any discussion can be progressed through tiny and meaningless posts. I gave examples of where a post can be small yet meaningful. Namely, in the content sharing threads.

To respond to my post and automatically equate every small post to useless Facebook- and Skype-like messages only gives me the impression that you didn’t bother to read my post. Or that you just enjoy using straw man arguments. “He asked for lower minimum, therefore he wants meaningless posts allowed.”

"This is my desktop. I don't remember where I got the wallpaper. I have microsoft word and photoshop as you can see from the icons. Obviously it's windows 7. I'm not running any software because I wanted you to see the wallpaper. No widgets."

I actually appreciate this sarcasm. I am not joking at all. It illustrates exactly what I’m talking about when I say the sharing threads don’t warrant longs posts.

What could you possibly have to say about your desktop? Yeah you can stretch it out to a formal letter and give excruciating details about the appearance of your desktop, but that’s just a nuisance.

[Titan Rising]

If all you want to say is "I agree with this post" then you're simply better off Brohoofing that post instead of making another post. The brohoof feature exists so that you can show your love of somepony's post without making another post.

Okay, so a person likes a post so they brohoofed it. That doesn't allow them to share their opinion with the rest of the people reading the thread and it doesn't even necessarily meant they agreed with the post. A lot of people brohoof posts just because they're written well, or because they noticed someone might have put a lot of work into a piece of art. Not to mention their name will likely not even be seen once (3?) people brohoof the same post.

I don't know about you, but to me a brohoof is only letting one person (the writer of that post) know that their post was appreciated (by you). It doesn't really give anyone else real incite into your opinion at all. I will admit their is some validity to what you're saying, but even then, whats the harm in letting someone type out their opinion rather than brohoof a post? Back before the character limit it's not like threads were getting spammed with 2 word posts to a degree that it even became a nuisance

[Kirlia]

Formulating responses to threads with the minimum character limit presently installed is not hard. It was implemented because people had the mindset that this was a chatroom, not a forum. Forums require you to actually think about the topic at hand and give you the option to give your opinion on the matter to the best of your ability. That being said, there is a standard we must adhere to when contributing on these forums to prevent it from devolving into a mess of small-time posts which really contribute nothing to any discussion.

I agree that it should be maybe 50 instead of 100. I've found myself not responding to posts entirely or writing useless things that I didn't really want to say as a result of the limit. I think all the limits should be cut in half. Half the time I don't even have this problem, but It has happened enough for me to notice. Usually I just end up not posting at all. xD

You have the right idea; if you feel that you have nothing to post, the option of not posting anything at all is always there. So your post won't contribute anything to the discussion, at least not a whole lot - big deal. Perhaps then it is time to find a new topic in which you have more to say, then? It is better to have 0 posts in general rather than having 50, to be blunt, low-quality ones. We are not forcing you to post on these forums, after all. We just ask that you try to write as much as you can when you're on here, as it adds a value to whatever discussion it is that you're engaged in.

I know this feel. I really do. I love posting on those types of threads where the main point is to show off stuff, but the 100 character limit gets in my way and I end up having to overly describe what I'm talking about.

I don't know if you know this, but overly describing what you're talking about is encouraged. If you take the time to really admire something, you can easily manage to add some value to the discussion. For example, on a recent post I made, I originally slated it to be just a couple of sentences, but I mulled over the topic for a while and managed to formulate a much better response. I could have just said, "Oh, Pinkie Pie was friends with everypony in Ponyville. She didn't have a group to hang out with though, so nopony was really close with her.", but it was much better to think about the other characters and speak on what they had to go through which in turn helped all of the Mane 6 become that much closer. Connecting with other issues/events solidifies your post, provided it doesn't go extremely off-topic - but it is encouraged.

Take the time to think about things. It's not a race to see who gets to 3000 posts in the shortest amount of time, after all. A slow, thoughtful process is loads of times better than quick (if you want to call it that) one.

50 character is an easier minimum. Sometimes it's taken me forever to reach 100 characters. I am just going to have to agree, LRP.

To quote Feld0:

The easiest way to legitimately add more content to your post is to answer one or more of these questions:

• Who?
• What?
• Where?
• When?
• Why?
• How?

You'll have 100 characters in no time, and a better post that adds more value to the site!

By answering a few of these questions on your posts related to the topic, you can get more ideas on what you want to go in your post - how it relates to some other event that you've experienced, another character, etc.

Ah yes, I remember speaking of this ANNOYING RULE with RBL at one point.
40-50 characters should suffice. We're wading in the zone of pointless filler here because no one gives a damn about posting 100 characters, which means more work for the mods having to delete all the crap.

Posts with 40-50 characters do not do much at all to clean up spam or otherwise useless posts. In order to promote higher-quality discussions, we must set the bar higher. As for cleaning up posts that attempt to bypass the limit, it is honestly not that bad compared to the many single-word responses, "i agree" posts, or otherwise some off-topic banter consisting of a few words here and there that contribute nothing at all that we have had to deal with over time. Of course, we only had to delete those posts before the limit was introduced because the forums were devolving into a chatroom, like I said above. We do not wish for that to happen; we are largely a Forum, not a social networking site.

No, this isn't skype, but I don't see anyone acting like it's skype. Even if someone says "I agree with this post", so what? They've offered their opinion which is generally what people are supposed to do on a forum, no? They offer their opinion and leave the thread, that DOES count for something - maybe not something of substance but it is SOMETHING.

"I agree" posts are not banished from the forums - just as long as you manage to expand on whomever it is that you agree with, or just provide a similar opinion of your own. If you cannot bring yourself to do so for whatever reason, then, well... the brohoof option is there for you to use.

What was the exact way of determining that 100 was the best option anyway? I'm fine with the character limit, but how was it decided?

It was brought up to counteract the many single-word responses that we received in rather large amounts which attributed to post quality declination. Too many times have we seen "Fluttershy" or "Rainbow Dash" on threads asking a question, which the responses were quite frankly is better off somewhere else... that and "I agree" posts which have nothing else other than "this" or "I agree". You probably know that those responses contain very little in the way of content - like about 10 or 20 characters tops, so the limit forces you to write out a better response. "Fluttershy is my favorite pony because her voice is cute" is a lot better than just "Fluttershy".



We are here to discuss things in detail; that's what a forum is about. A few words quite frankly doesn't help us reach that objective.

[Suigintou]

*le snip*

But the point of the Forums is to talk, isn't it? it's to enjoy oneself, not to worry about character limits and having to make random comments to fill er' up.
You know what? Not gonna argue. My opinion is my opinion and nothing will change that, so I will respect yours.

Edited by PinkieDaShy.avi, 02 August 2012 - 04:05 PM.

[Titan Rising]

first off, posting "I agree" or anything of similar conversational value on the forums as a post should really be considered to be brohoof, it is a feature implemented to reward good posting or making a point you like.

Secondly although all your bickering that opinions are all well and good and add to discussion, that seems to be your own opinion because you are the ones doing it. I for one do not enjoy reading people's opinions and feeling left in the dark about why someone feels a certain way. It can never be justified to say "I think Rainbow Dash is the best pony" is considered valuable discussion. Often times these could merely be polls anyway, because there is no point in having someone take three seconds to type out such nonsense. Yet you do.

Remember, you post responses in a text field, capable of carrying around a million characters and new lines and formatting. Yet all this discussion is about is "let's be like Twitter". There really is no reason why people are ignoring the function of the forums and the tools provided to assist the reason we are here.

It should be a good thing to read out other people's replies and discuss what they have to to say.

Like I said before, brohoof =/= I agree with said post. All it says is from one person to another that their post was well made and next to no one will even know that they brohoofed the post to begin with, let alone know what they actually thought about it

Secondly, that doesn't really address my other point at all - what's the difference between two people saying the exact same thing and one person saying one thing and the next person saying "I agree with the above"; or why we shouldn't just delete every single post that repeats a point in a thread. You also didn't give me a reply for the part about whether or not asking simple questions adds to a discussion. You just go on to give your own opinion that there is no value in just a persons opinion

Okay so you don't like feeling left in the dark... And that's an excuse to try and regulate people's posts? Look around you, people are still doing the exact same thing except now they're circumventing the character limit with useless information and additional adjectives and adverbs and the like. Why not make the character limit 500? That way only a couple people will likely post per thread and hopefully cover all the necessary points relevant to the discussion so that no one else even has to post anything at all.

"I agree" posts are not banished from the forums - just as long as you manage to expand on whomever it is that you agree with, or just provide a similar opinion of your own. If you cannot bring yourself to do so for whatever reason, then, well... the brohoof option is there for you to use.

And again I would ask, what's the point? What's the point of allowing anyone to speak on a thread at all if their point has already been mentioned? Why not just close down threads once every conceivable point has been mentioned? A thousand people can brohoof a post but none of their opinions will even be known; and only 3 or 4 people's names will be seen by the rest of the people viewing the topic. The other 996 become just a number.

Still not seeing the harm in letting people post "I agree". There is virtually no difference between someone saying "I agree" then listing the exact same reason as the above post and someone saying "I agree with the above post". The only thing I can imagine is that you guys don't want them getting post count or that you think they're spamming - and if spamming is the case then well guess what? You logically have to classify every other post that lists a reason addressed by a previous post as spam as well

Edited by Hollowshield, 02 August 2012 - 04:18 PM.

[Lady Rarity Pony]

Okay!

Who: My desktop
What: My desktop
When: Today
Where: My PC
Why: Because it's the point of the thread
How: ctrl + prt sc

Seems legit.

Edited by Lady Rarity Pony, 02 August 2012 - 04:18 PM.

[Bohtty]

You have the right idea; if you feel that you have nothing to post, the option of not posting anything at all is always there. So your post won't contribute anything to the discussion, at least not a whole lot - big deal. Perhaps then it is time to find a new topic in which you have more to say, then? It is better to have 0 posts in general rather than having 50, to be blunt, low-quality ones. We are not forcing you to post on these forums, after all. We just ask that you try to write as much as you can when you're on here, as it adds a value to whatever discussion it is that you're engaged in.

What you just described is what I did naturally before the limit was added. Now I'm just not posting because I don't feel like wasting the time to say something in two sentences when it only really needs one sentence. It's changed from an "Eh I don't really have an opinion on this" to "Eh fuckit I guess..."


Be definition, this website is a social networking website.


If someone wanted to post a few words for their post than is forcing them to add more words really going to add to the quality of the topic. It's just going to make people post less or fluff up their sentences with useless commentary.

[Kirlia]

But the point of the Forums is to talk, isn't it? it's to enjoy oneself, not to worry about character limits and having to make random comments to fill er' up.

It is. But not "social networking" kind of talking, because that defeats the purpose of being on a forum where expectations are that people post decent responses and not "lol" or "i agree wit dis", or answer with a single word response. We would not be worrying about character limits if everybody was posting at least decently.

[Suigintou]

It is. But not "social networking" kind of talking, because that defeats the purpose of being on a forum where expectations are that people post decent responses and not "lol" or "i agree wit dis", or answer with a single word response. We would not be worrying about character limits if everybody was posting at least decently.

I CAN'T HEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR YOOOOOOOOOOUUUUUUUUUU! *covers ears stubbornly*
I don't wanna get in an argument