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Applejack, Potential Mary Sue?

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#1 A Talking Dragon

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 09:25 AM

A long time ago, I argue/debated with a poster friend with regards to Applejack. While he claimed to be an A.J fan, he always put her down, basically saying that she's always at a disadvantage cause she's an earth pony, others can do what she does, and that she never successes at anything.

 

So, I came up with the other end of the extreme argument: that Applejack has so much ownage that she's a potential Mary Sue.

 

 

Why:

 

- A.J tops the other mane 5 in some of their key areas or values:

 

Twilight - both in and out of show, A.J's considered as level headed or more so than Twi. and just as perceptive. A.J has also been shown to be as good of a leader. Even those that are the closest thing to rivals, and have feuded with her before (Rainbow Dash, Rarity), allow A.J to boss them around.
 

Rainbow- equal as athletic as Rainbow, just as fast as her, on ground. Maybe even more loyal.
 

Pinkie Pie- at least as good of a baker as Pinkie Pie and an overall better cook than her
 

Rarity- without even trying, A.J has achieved the social status that Rarity so desires. Her family helped found the whole town and she's quite well known outside of that cause of her deeds, and if A.J wanted to, she could pack up, move to Manehattan, and live the high end life amount the social elites.
 

Fluttershy- arguably as kind as Fluttershy, but not held back by social fears, deals with just as much animals on a daily bases. Just as nurturing.

 

 

- Even when she does wrong, she does right: Ep.3, first to give the ticket back to Twilight. Ep.8, admits to Rarity she was wrong. Ep. 13, for most of it, tries to win fairly. S2. ep.26, personally apologizes to Twi.

 

- Two episodes have showcase how much of an ideal sister she is.
 
- Two episodes involve everyone appreciating her and going out of their way for her.

 

- She's been celebrated by the entire town, twice (not even Twilight got that)

 

- She's saved the main character's life, twice

 

- She's saved the main character's assistant, twice.

 

- A.J got her own flashback montage in The Return of Harmony

 

- Considered by many to have the most noble reason to go to the Gala

 

- Considered by many to be the only one of the group to have "kept it together" and not have gone ape by this point

 

- Manage to troll Celestia, morally and didn't have to learn a lesson

 

- The only single pony to ever get one over Pinkie Pie and actually get to her

 

- No one seems to think she's capable of doing wrong. Even on this site, A.J was voted least likely of the others to become evil.

 

 

As by this list, A.J does have a lot of postives going for her. In many regards, she may be overpowered.

 

At one time, I would say that A.J was the closest thing to a Mary Sue on the show. However, I think A.J has just enough flaws and disadvantages to prevent this (I can list these too). 

 

And, I'd say that Twilight runs a greater risk for this now, as she's recently lost the last of her major flaws, has decent physical strength, now, insane political power along with amazing connections, has even more powerful magic, and finally, has nearly as much positive character traits as A.J, but with little cost to herself.

 

So, what are your thoughts on this?

 

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#2 ~Chaotic Discord~

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:00 AM

Eh, Mary Sue, overpowered, etc aren't words I'd use for AJ. She's very level-headed and mature, more so than the others, which is why her track record for character flaws and letters to the princess is scarce, but at the same time, she's stubborn and doesn't flaunt any of her positive traits to a point where I'd shout 'mary sue'. You can't really be a mary sue if you don't flaunt your pros as well as denounce your faults. Most of your list is just things AJ got to do because, unfortunately, she doesn't usually get to do much else due to the fact that she's so level-headed and casual as a character.



#3 ~StatesTheOblivious~

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:15 AM

I would even consider Applejack as one of the least Mary-Sueish characters of the show. I would even say she is the most stable main character. She has flaws and a Mary Sue is also constructed by the other characters. I would not say, that this is the case. She doesn't solve all of her problems 'alone' (damn she is stubborn, that's all) and she was the one who was most suspicious of Zecora in the beginning. That's far away from Mary Sue related 'idealism'. There are other characters in the show that are far more a Mary Sue than her.



#4 fluffpudge

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 10:19 AM

Though, considering, Applejack hasn't really showed up too much in episodes- or at least had a lot of emphasis put on her..A lot of the qualities you take time to point out, I've actually met some people who are very much like that. Level-headed, ideal older sister, has family values (noble cause for going to the Gala), everyone appreciating them.

 

I think you seem to leave out that she's very kept to herself about her own problems, which is a character flaw. She is stubborn and sometimes too proud. She is probably the most mature out of the bunch, but that doesn't make her a Mary Sue necessarily. 



#5 Mutemutt

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 12:23 PM

I'd respond to all of this but I really, really, don't want to write a gigantic wall o' text, so I'll I just respond to some bits and pieces. 

- A.J tops the other mane 5 in some of their key areas or values:

*stuff*

I'm not sure just how key you find those values but it's not unusual for characters to share some of the minor aspects of their character with the rest of the cast. It would be different if Applejack could create sonic rainbooms or perform high level spells, those are some of the unique and defining characteristics of the cast. Leadership qualities and being athletic? Not so much. 

 

- Even when she does wrong, she does right: Ep.3, first to give the ticket back to Twilight. Ep.8, admits to Rarity she was wrong. Ep. 13, for most of it, tries to win fairly. S2. ep.26, personally apologizes to Twi.  
That seems like a natural progression for the main protagonists in the show. If they started out in the wrong, they realize their mistake(s) by the end of the episode and everything ends on a happy note. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure it worked that way for all the mane 6 so far (I don't have time right now to recheck them all to make sure).

 

- Two episodes have showcase how much of an ideal sister she is.  
I'll give you this one for sure. AJ and Apple Bloom act as the foil to Rarity and Sweetie Belle. They're sort of like the beta couple except with sisters. I'm pretty sure Applejack said something about their relationship not being as perfect as it seems though, it's just shown that way for foil purposes.

 

I don't think AJ was ever even close to being "overpowered" or a "mary-sue". She's got strengths and flaws just like the rest of the characters and you can go to a thread like the Applejack fan club and see the reasons why she's awesome. Or if you wait long enough, maybe one of the more renowned Applejack fans will explain why she's not overpowered and not a mary-sue.



#6 Sugar Cube

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 04:35 PM

First off, there's really no precise meaning of the term Mary Sue. That term is overused, and yet most people have different views on what it even means. But since you're talking about Mary Sue as far as being overpowered, I'll start there.

 

Applejack is far from overpowered. She is powerful in the sense that she's both physically and mentally strong. She doesn't have mental breakdowns or panic attacks like the other five do, but that's her niche as a character in the group. I for one love AJ partly because she's the most rational and down to earth. Meltdowns don't appeal to me, because I don't relate to it. Applejack stands out from the pack by being the one with a level head.

 

Applejack is very ethical, and that is why we can clearly see that she's not just honest, but kind and loyal too. However, like any good character, she is absolutely not infallible. She has limits to just how far she can be pushed before she acts out. She's not typically aggressive or reckless like Rainbow Dash, but if she feels like she's being challenged or tried in any way, she can be highly confrontational. There are numerous examples of her acting like this, but I wanna make this post short, so I won't go there yet. But this is what makes her so human and believable. She has so many amazing qualities that you have to admire, but when push comes to shove, she still has her moments and makes her mistakes.

 

Also, Applejack is an earth pony. And while she is very athletically gifted, strong, and dexterous, she doesn't have wings or magic. She can't make others levitate like Twilight or Rarity can. She can't create a hurricane like Fluttershy. She can't do a rainboom like Dash can. And she also doesn't have the physics-defying, fourth wall-breaking, cartoon randomness of Pinkie Pie either. She's just a pony, and she doesn't have that superhero aura that the others sometimes seem to have. Magic, super speed, the stare, the Pinkie sense.... what's AJ's special ability?

 

So no, she's far from a Mary Sue, but thanks for another Applejack topic. smile.png


Edited by Sugar Cube, 30 May 2013 - 04:36 PM.


#7 Do Svidaniya

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 04:39 PM

I wouldn't go so far as to say she's a Mary Sue character.

 

If you think about it, it's not a rule that only one pony is allowed to own a quality while another is not, especially while in a group.

 

I would say that the fact AJ has had her honesty questioned in various episodes proves she's not a Mary Sue sticking to a perfect mold.



#8 EarthbendingProdigy

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Posted 30 May 2013 - 05:33 PM

I don't think Applejack or any of the other mane 6 are Mary Sues, but if you were to make an argument for any of them Twilight would probably make a lot more sense as she does have some traits of a Mary Sue but having some traits of a Mary Sue and actually being one are two very different things. Alot of great characters especially main characters do have one or two traits in common with a Mary Sue but a true Mary Sue is a character that is either so perfect that they are bland and one dimension, god modded to such an absurd extent that makes no sense to the story whatsoever that it is a cruel joke or both and Applejack is far far from that.

 

Yes it is fair to say that Applejack has the fewest character flaws of the mane 6, however fewer does not mean none. Applejack has been shown to be extremely stubborn, set in her ways and is often reluctant to admit when she is wrong. And on a couple of occasions though not as many as Twilight she has been shown to be somewhat closed minded, she was with the exception of Pinkie Pie the one who treated Zecora the most harshly in Bridle Gossip. Applejack is without a doubt the strongest of the mane 6, but that has just as much to her being an earth pony as it does all the farm work she has done over the years and really she can't use magic or fly so it is kind of unfair to say she is overpowered. Twilight on the other hand might very well become overpowered if twilicorn is botched anymore than it has been but we will have to wait until season 4 to find that out for sure.



#9 TwiGal2million

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 04:52 PM

To me she isn't a complete Sue but she cuts it pretty close and she just annoys me. I hate how she's thought of as the "Only Good and Sane Pony" and she's just a goody two shoes. I don't hate her but I'm gonna spread this out.

She.

Is.

A.

Mary.

Sue.

#10 Scootalove

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 05:05 PM

I wouldn't say Mary Sue since, that does not describe Applejack at all. She is pretty mature, level headed, and would always accept people for who they are. So I think that, she isn't exactly the overpowered type. She is a character that has problems just like any other character, for a character to develop they must have issues that they must overcome. So, no mary sue since people make background pony jokes about her.


Edited by Scootalove, 21 September 2013 - 08:22 AM.


#11 Dismajo

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 05:18 PM

Um. No. As much as I am sick and tired of the term mary sue, because it's so beaten up and overused to no boundaries, I'm going to have to utilize it anyway.

 

She has a lot of up-sides, but many people complain that Applejack is way too plain for her own good. While I don't agree, I do agree she may not really stand out as some of the staple characters like Pinkie Pie or Rainbow Dash, I see no real valid argument for her to be a sue at all. 


Edited by Dism, 20 September 2013 - 05:18 PM.


#12 Dark Horn

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 05:38 PM

Mary Sue is not a term I would personally use to describe Applejack.

 

My 2 cents I have to contribute to the conversation is that your reasoning for AJ being better than Pinkie Pie involves cooking, and even though we've seen Pinkie cook on multiple occasions, baking is not exactly her defining characteristic.



#13 Sugar Cube

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 05:51 PM

To me she isn't a complete Sue but she cuts it pretty close and she just annoys me. I hate how she's thought of as the "Only Good and Sane Pony" and she's just a goody two shoes. I don't hate her but I'm gonna spread this out.

She.

Is.

A.

Mary.

Sue.

 

The what? First you say she's not a Sue, and then you say she is? huh.png

 

And where did you get the idea that she's the ONLY good and sane pony? I could've sworn all six of them were good in their own different ways. After all, they each embody a different component of friendship. And while Applejack is the most sane in the sense that she has the most sound judgment and good sense, that doesn't mean the others aren't sane. God forbid Applejack have a spot in the group as the most rationally sound.

 

A Mary Sue is a character that's too perfect and lacking in realism to be interesting. I realize that not everyone can relate to Applejack on a personal level, but I have a hard time seeing how a character who lives and works so hard in her unglamorous but routine lifestyle, who is always there for friends and family, and is proud and stubborn to a fault is in any way unrealistic. My AJ bias aside, she is not overpowered or perfect. I have yet to see one compelling argument or piece of evidence that in any way supports the Mary Sue notion. It's just another sawed-off attempt to rib on Applejack (A Talking Dragon is playing the devil's advocate, so he's an exception). Many characters in fiction face this label, and usually it's without warrant.


Edited by Sugar Cube, 20 September 2013 - 06:05 PM.


#14 Vaddix

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 06:01 PM

That's just horseapples. Like Tender Voice said, she'd be ranked one of the least Mary-Sue style characters on the show. I'd probably rate Spike as more of a Mary Sue than Applejack, even though neither are.

 

Mary Sue? Ridiculous. Waifu? Perhaps. tongue.png



#15 FNGRpony

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Posted 20 September 2013 - 06:39 PM

...............

I love crazy theories LOL.

 

AJ is more
a

chris thorn dyke than a mary sue LOL.

Her family?  what is she yuan shao from dynasty warriors living off her families name?

that would be a neat air to AJ. 
"the long illustrious apple line!"

see her being more stuck up than rarity would be neat.

 

the only way I could possibly be threatened enough by aj to call her mary sue is if i feared any, and I mean any personality out of female.  Just no lol.

"she's so balance she's broken."

 

that's some fine nerf herding lol

 

if you could shut of all magic in equistra i guess apple jack might be considered broken.  (seeing as how magic is what allows the ponies to fly right?)
 



#16 WheatleyCore

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 03:41 AM

Applejack would be one of the last ponies I would call Mary Sue in the slightest. Just because she has done a lot of good and noble things don't make her a Mary Sue right off the bat. A Mary Sue is someone who is of perfection with no flaws. Applejack does have flaws...for example:

 

  • Stubborn (Applebuck Season, The Last Roundup)
  • Can cheat just to win (Fall Weather Friends)
  • Can get angered and annoyed pretty easily (The Last Roundup)
  • Trying to make things turn out the way she wants it to (The Cutie Mark Chronicles, Applebuck Season, Family Appreciation Day)

We just haven't seen enough Applejack episodes to ever say that she's a Mary Sue. And even if we did get more episodes of her...the odds of her being a Mary Sue is slim to downright impossible. 


Edited by WheatleyCore, 21 September 2013 - 03:41 AM.


#17 Stellafera

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Posted 21 September 2013 - 08:05 AM

> Applejack gets background pony jokes

> Is called a Mary Sue

 

Generally, a Mary Sue swallows up the story and tries to overshadow everyone else with their speshul sparkle importance. 

 

Applejack being the butt of "Background Pony" jokes directly contradicts the idea that she is a Mary Sue.



#18 Wingnut

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 09:22 AM

In order to be a true Mary/Marty Sue, one must be virtually free of shortcomings.  As others have shown, that's not Applejack.  She's stubborn, proud, and frequently impatient.  She also pre-judged Rarity to be too prissy.  Even after she buried the ratchet with Rarity, AJ still thought she was too weak to survive for long in captivity during a Dog and Pony Show. 



#19 FNGRpony

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 12:50 PM

I finally saw the 4th episode, aka the apple jack episode where she runs herself into the ground running the farm, and helping everyone.

And something new clicked.

1

why some people like apple jack

2

this thread.

 

she is very close to OP in that episode.  Close, but no cigar.  The lesson of the show (or that episode) is no matter how reliable she is, she still needed her friends.  A couple more days of that and she likely would had a stroke lol.

 

Now this is some what of topic but please indulge me.  I would have preferred apple jack not learning that lesson.  (no i didn't want her to have a stroke and die LOL)

 

but we likely all know that overly committed work horse, i think it would been a great continued character flaw.

 

Rarity slips into vanity at times and it's some of her best screen time.
Pinkie crazyness is her character flaw,

twilight OCD is her most fun trate,

Flutter shy is (DUH).....,

and rainbow dash is a huge attention whore/ slash douche (LOL I could said that better, and sadly those are less enjoyable than i feel the others flaws).

 

Taking away apple jacks flaws didn't make her more powerful, it made her less interesting.


Edited by FNGRpony, 22 September 2013 - 12:52 PM.


#20 Zygen

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Posted 22 September 2013 - 01:05 PM

Applejack is still far from a Mary sue, sure if you want to you could say each have traits of a Mary sue, but they aren't. They're all well constructed charactors and far from Mary sues.

She still has many flaws, and isnt super cocky and overconfident, nor undefeatable.

She is also prone to being really stubborn, to the point of wearing herself to exhaustion and still not asking for help when she's knows she needs it.

Aswell as being prone to arguments with rarity still, and getting a bit to competitive with rainbow.

Regardless still a good distance from Mary sue.

Edited by Zygen, 22 September 2013 - 01:06 PM.






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