62 replies to this topic

[Mattlight]

Okay, I have to say most of the time I just ignore them, I don't put much thought into it, and IRL most people don't hate, as much as they're just shocked at how someone other than a little girl could like MLP, and I would be, too, if it wasn't for G4.

But anyways, I was writing a reply to Why are people always hating on Rarity?, when I wrote a bit about a dream I had, and how Rarity symbolized the "girliness" of the show for me at the time.

_{Okay, I'd love for some knowledgable folks like Pencils and Kyronea to sorta "peer-review" this, because as much as I'm interested in psychology, I'm still a total ameateur who mostly guesses, but here I go:}

So, I actually, or, a part of me, kinda understood haters for a little bit...

Okay, so here I go, don't be afraid you'll offend me or anything, and I'm not "opening up", this is purely an objective (as much as possible) analysis so that we can learn some really useful information, and kind of serve as a case study for the psyche of a hater, as well as me offering some really deep advise to some people who might be facing similar situations.

I've seen all kinds of thread topics suggesting that there's people in the community who need to read this. So here it is:


It started with analyzing the symbology of a dream.
Here's the background for the dream: I'd just discovered how much I like MLP, and I was very confused about it. I didn't even question the confusion, though! _{(This has just stood out to me)} I was just wondering why I liked the show.

The dream goes like this: I met Rarity, and I really enjoyed being around her. She's loving, kind, gentle, sweet and caring, and very innocent. Mike walks up, and walks off with Rarity. Later, I found out Mike murdered Rarity in a horrible way, then killed himself, because afterwards he realized what a horrible thing he'd done, he realized what a gentle, loving, caring, innocent creature Rarity was. After that, me and the other Mane 6 planted a garden to remember Rarity by, and one of the plants grew indescribably beautiful, it gew huge very quickly, in just moments. It was a show of how powerful and strong her kindness and love carried immortal, past her death It was very sad, but much more than that, very peaceful and just beautiful.

Anyways, what this post is about is Mike and Rarity. I understood Mike. I think Mike represented the "hater" side of me. I suspect, that people define themselves as something, but also they define themselves as what they aren't. When someone defines themselves as good, they also define themselves as "not bad", so they immediately hate bad things like stealing. If someone wants to be strong(strong in character), then they define themselves as strong, and also define themselves as not weak. And so in a way, when someone sees what they think is a girly little kids' show, they define themselves as someone who isn't "into" that, because they're not a little girl.

This is why we see people make terrible, violent parodies of things like Barney, where he rampages and eats the kids. Objectively, it's horrible, but we find it hilarious, because part of us "grew up", so we define ourselves as "not little kids", and so we are the opposite, or oppose, "little kid things", and violently killing Barney's friends is definitely the epitome of opposing Barney. Better yet, Barney himself does it, which symbolizes loss of innocence and "growing up", which means the psyche gives bonus points in "funny" if the horrible thing that happens happens within the realm of the show's canon. (Like for example, Pinkie Pie is the antagonist in Cupcakes, not a self-inserted author or OC.)

I think the reason Mike hated Rarity, is that she was a threat to how others would think of him (which is the basis for your entire social life), and the fact that he liked her was a terrifying threat to the very basis who he defined himself to be.

And he was right to be scared, too. Because once Mike died, and I fully accepted the show, it really did cause a big impact on my self-image, and a huge re-examination of who I was, which led to questions about purpose of life and everything. Who you are, especially when the portion of who you are that was destroyed ("not a girly little kid") was something established a long time ago, is very foundational to our entire emotional lives. Throw this into disarray, and emotions and everything will go chaotic. A perfect example is "What is the purpose"-type questions.

That finally came to conclusion when I've just kinda decided "life is a party". Rainbow Dash is an excellent example of savoring every moment of experience, and just enjoying the thrill of being alive. I love Pinkie Pie, and her attitude of "why be unhappy when you can be happy!?", and to turn every moment of life into an enjoyable, fun one. Because life is really about being happy. And, don't forget it's always very important to take care of the future, but often I've found myself so concerned and worried about the future I've forgotten to enjoy the present. And we shouldn't forget the future, but life's always in the present, so be a Pinkie Pie and make the current moment a good one!
_{(As long as it's not at the expense of the future. I.e., don't slack off until the night before the final exam or do something you'll regret later.)}



So, that's my hypothesis of why haters hate, mixed in with a lot of other deep things. Anyways, I doubt haters consciously realize any of it at all, but a part of them is terrified of liking the show, because the very foundation of who they are to themself rests on the fact that they're the opposite of the show, that they're "a big boy" now that is the opposite of "little girly things".

Never try to say this to them, though, when something complex like this happens, it comes out as feelings that don't make any sense to the conscious mind, which makes them angry because it's confusing. The best thing to do, I think, is either to brush/laugh it off as no big deal, or just "love and tolerate the crap outta you".

If you're very skilled, you might want to try suggesting that MLP isn't a threat to masculinity. Not exactly IRL, but on Youtube Comments I've pointed out how manliness is about being of strong character and reliable, someone a family can depend on and can push through hard times, and even carry others with him at the same time, and MLP has nothing against that.

But just recently today I saw some hate firsthand for the first time to Dr. Who. This analysis even sheds some light on that, and it really makes a lot of sense now; because the hate is irrational and powerful. This finally explains why, at least IMO.

Edited by EASA - Dr. Braun, 14 February 2012 - 06:49 PM.

[83awsm]

Dang dude that's some deep personal analysis!

I quoted some of what I believe are your strong points, and agree with them 100%

I doubt they consciously realize any of it at all, but a part of them is terrified of liking the show, because the very foundation of who they are to themself rests on the fact that they're the opposite of the show, that they're "a big boy" now that is the opposite of "little girly things".

The best thing to do, I think, is either to brush/laugh it off as no big deal, or just "love and tolerate the crap outta you".

I've pointed out how manliness is about being of strong character and reliable, someone a family can depend on and can push through hard times, and even carry others with him at the same time, and MLP has nothing against that.

The opposite idea really seems to click with me and it’s the most rational explanation I’ve seen thus far in “hater” analysis. Also, I’ve been commenting for a while on personal problem threads concerning haters or trolls… My advice: just ignore them, because rage is what they want. I really think you got that through here as well. And gotta agree with the last one, character strongly reflects upon values in my opinion and it doesn’t matter what you watch or enjoy as long as your character inside remains strong. Overall well done man xD

[Sepia-chan]

TL:DR. JK, JK.

Very nice read. Well done.

[Mattlight]

Dang dude that's some deep personal analysis!

I quoted some of what I believe are your strong points, and agree with them 100%


The opposite idea really seems to click with me and it’s the most rational explanation I’ve seen thus far in “hater” analysis. Also, I’ve been commenting for a while on personal problem threads concerning haters or trolls… My advice: just ignore them, because rage is what they want. I really think you got that through here as well. And gotta agree with the last one, character strongly reflects upon values in my opinion and it doesn’t matter what you watch or enjoy as long as your character inside remains strong. Overall well done man xD

Wow, thanks! This kind of response makes my heart flutter a little, this is more than I could've hoped for!


You might want to look back over it, though, I edit a lot and I've added stuff since you replied, lol ^^;

[Kyreth]

So, that's my hypothesis of why haters hate, mixed in with a lot of other deep things. Anyways, I doubt haters consciously realize any of it at all, but a part of them is terrified of liking the show, because the very foundation of who they are to themself rests on the fact that they're the opposite of the show, that they're "a big boy" now that is the opposite of "little girly things".

I totally agree with this. People's views on things are often based on their view of themselves. I know that from personal experience, my view of myself changes almost weekly and it used to dictate my opinions on everything.

If you're very skilled, you might want to try suggesting that MLP isn't a threat to masculinity. Not exactly IRL, but on Youtube Comments I've pointed out how manliness is about being of strong character and reliable, someone a family can depend on and can push through hard times, and even carry others with him at the same time, and MLP has nothing against that.

Oh man, I can't even count the amount of times I've made this argument. Going against the social norm is a brave thing to do and bravery is considered a 'manly' trait. But those who do go against the norm are criticised by those who are too afraid to lose their 'manly' image.

[83awsm]

Wow, thanks! This kind of response makes my heart flutter a little, this is more than I could've hoped for!

You might want to look back over it, though, I edit a lot and I've added stuff since you replied, lol ^^;

Well it's one of the only Hater threads that actually made sense to me. Some that I’ve seen are rants and others try to target the haters themselves, but analyzing certain attributes and psychological thinking in a clear way seems to yield much better results. Also gotta give props for the character incorporation you added

[The Pinkazoid]

Why do haters hate? well that's their job, or else they wouldn't be called haters maybe neutrals or lovers or something along those lines, but we need haters or else we'll need someone to love and tolerate

that was just my thought on the title xD

but yeah I agree with you in the description the title just threw me off

Edited by Pinkazoid, 16 February 2012 - 09:33 PM.

[Folly-Fallen Gryphon]

That was an amazing post, you hit the nail on the head with a lot of things right there.

Psychology is a truly amazing field, it allows us to at least attempt to reason with the absurd world we live in. The analysis of your dream is very Freudian in nature (what is that silly unconscious mind hiding), which I think is a great tool for understanding the inner workings of our minds.

Your definition of haters is espescially true, I used to be that way myself. If I wanted to make an image for myself I would (without realizing) begin to shun the antithesis (or what I believed to be) of the trait I was trying to promote. Now as I have grown older I am finding I have stopped doing this, I accept myself and I worry less about upkeeping any sort of image.

In my own personal theory I think almost all haters stem from the issue of them hating themselves. They are afraid they are "not manly enough" for example, and thus try to make up for it. Another way it can work is the kid who is picked on transfers their negative feelings to something weaker (a child who is bullied bullies their younger sibling). All in all haters are the people who rely too heavily on coping mechanisms, lost in a downward spiral of self-loathing (which they probably don't even fully realize).

I believe this is why they retaliate so much when the subject is explained to them, they don't want to learn. They would rather remain ignorant of their own true feelings so that the pain can be avoided. They choose a false immediate reward over a long term reward that would cause them to have to learn to truly accept themselves.

[Mare in the Moon]

Haters are just the worst. They fear and oppose that which they do not understand, simply because they do not understand it, rideculing those who show love for a subject in question that the haters do not understand. This seems to be the usual reason.

One must hold on tightly to what each of us considers a "pro" in our own minds, regardless of what others may say or do to try and deter us from it. Its the willingness to ignor and accept these judgements and deterents without letting it get to us that is the one sign of streangth that a "hater" will be afraid of. You dont want to give them the satisfaction of altering your emotions, they feed on it. If anything, use the deterents as a way of streangthening your own drive towards the thing that you love and enjoy. And if they do make you mad, living a happy life is the best revenge.

[Klopp]

Haters hate, cause hatin's what haters do best! But don't be hatin' on the haters, cause hatin' haters makes you a hater, so you'll be hatin' yourself. It's like a hater hatin' triangle of hatefulness!

Now let me turn off the Pinkie Pie in me, and get a bit more serious.

What you have stated here pretty much sums up my thoughts on pretty much all hate throughout the world. People think sticking to the stereotypes of other people there age is the best way to go. Then they completely reject, or in this case hate, things that might possibly corrupt that. If people would stop seeing MLP as just "That girly show that will ruin my masculinity", and just appreciate the quality of the show, I'd be willing to bet at least 80% of the world would love the show. (Basically stating that 20% of the world would not be cooler)

[Toothless the Night Fury]

Well... I suppose you'll know who to go to need a psychologist around here... xD

Good job on this. A tip of the hat, from me, to you.

[SBB64]

Amazing post. I thought the dream bit was especially fascinating- I think we've all got a little Mike in us.

[Kirlia]

Hate to break it to you, but we're all haters. Why do you think humans are a violent race? We can agree on things, but when we disagree, that's when shit starts hitting the fan.

It's just who they are, and really, you can't blame them. They might like something that you absolutely despise, and you're more inclined to say something about that as a result.

[WildCard]

I liked your post and maybe I found out why I never liked Cupcakes or violent parodies. Because I am not a big fan of growing up and all the things that it brings with it. I accept it but I would choose being 16 over being 20 any day

[Apple Bloom]

That was very insightful. I've never thought about it that way. I've always thought that haters just hate because they're closed minded. I've never thought about it affecting my masculinity or way of life either. I just watch it because I love the show and I'm not afraid to tell others about it.

[Tenor Clef]

I don't know. Al I gotta say is haters gonna hate

[Mattlight]

Haters hate, cause hatin's what haters do best! But don't be hatin' on the haters, cause hatin' haters makes you a hater, so you'll be hatin' yourself. It's like a hater hatin' triangle of hatefulness!

Now let me turn off the Pinkie Pie in me, and get a bit more serious.

What you have stated here pretty much sums up my thoughts on pretty much all hate throughout the world. People think sticking to the stereotypes of other people there age is the best way to go. Then they completely reject, or in this case hate, things that might possibly corrupt that. If people would stop seeing MLP as just "That girly show that will ruin my masculinity", and just appreciate the quality of the show, I'd be willing to bet at least 80% of the world would love the show. (Basically stating that 20% of the world would not be cooler)

Oh, here comes speech time...

[+Soapbox]
One of the things I hate most oppose most is stereotypes. In most societies and cultures throughout history, this most horrible, evil thing of a class system has appeared, where people don't have the freedom to make their own destiny and lives. We fought a revolution about two hundred years ago, and every war since then has been to defend that hard-earned freedom that allows each of us to choose our own destiny.

Yet, for some reason, there are "stereotypes" that naturally occur in society that slap people right back into those "classes". And people who - I honestly don't know if they have small minds, are too lazy to think, or just unimaginitive - but they see those stereotypes of "nerd", "jock", "geek", "beauty", etc. etc. and accept them like some sort of holy word-of-God truth. Worst of all, they classify themselves as something, as "dumb", "redneck", "nerdy" or whatever, and don't realize one of the most amazing, wonderful aspects of life: We make who we are.

Very nice comments, and even the "Pinkie Pie" bit was great. It's true, it's a vicious cycle that feeds on itself. Fortunately love is that way, too, it's just it's not quiet as potent. It's harder to forget your own woes and care about someone else than it is to sink in a hole of misery and lash out at anyone that comes close.

When I first started watching the show, I destested Rarity for a bit because her daydream of Prince Blueblood in ep. 3 was extremely similar to someone I know IRL who always seems obsessed with some romantic fantasy. But Rarity, unlike that person IRL, we've seen honestly cares about other people and will generously sacrifice for them (like cutting off her own tail for a sea serpent!). If only everyone IRL could realize that happiness never comes when we're focused on ourselves... Truly, 'tis better to give than to receive.
[-Soapbox]

I liked your post and maybe I found out why I never liked Cupcakes or violent parodies. Because I am not a big fan of growing up and all the things that it brings with it. I accept it but I would choose being 16 over being 20 any day

Yeah, I'm really quiet pleased by it. It was just one of those amazing moments were everything just kinda clicked. Scientific theories reach verification by being proven to be able to predict things. I wrote it about myself, and possibly some haters. But looking back, and as I fleshed it out, I've realized it also manages to explain why things like Cupcakes become so popular. It's because of that little Mike inside each of us...

Poor Micheal. I'm glad I spelled his name differently. He's someone from my school. One of those people, into computers, not very social; he's really quiet harmless, afterwards I was shocked that my mind chose him to use to represent hate. Maybe he would be subconsciously scared and respond that way, but he's not mean or anything by any stretch. Now I'm gonna see "Mike" used to mean hate, lol.


But don't get me wrong, what I was getting at is the perception, or the stereotype of what growing up means, not what growing up actually is. I think a major part of growing up is becoming someone that looks out for others instead of living like a typical animal, that lives to feel and look out for itself and seek pleasure. There's nothing wrong with that in small children; they're too young and innocent to know better. But growing up, is time to learn to put yourself aside for the sake of others, IMO. And in the long run, we learn empathy, and we find happiness by giving it to others. That's what "growing up" should mean, if the stereotype was correct. It's hard, but we get better at it the more we do it, and it is the higher, nobler, and far happier way of life, in a very deep way that childishness could never grasp.

That was an amazing post, you hit the nail on the head with a lot of things right there.

Psychology is a truly amazing field, it allows us to at least attempt to reason with the absurd world we live in. The analysis of your dream is very Freudian in nature (what is that silly unconscious mind hiding), which I think is a great tool for understanding the inner workings of our minds.

Freudian? I haven't read anything by the man, I've only heard him referenced to by my psychology professor, in the single psychology class I've ever taken (101). Maybe I have a future in psychology lol, It's not exactly close to Aerospace Engineering, but I'm keeping an eye on it, it is a keen interest of mine. What field of study could possibly benefit man better than learning the workings of our own mind? Really I just chose the approach because it seemed the most logical way to look at it.

"Attempting to reason with the absurd [emotional] world we live in" - ah, this is exactly why I love reading Emotional Intelligence. It's very nice to take all the confusion and chaos of emotion, step back, and say "There's a reason for this. We can find out what it is in an objective, level-headed way."

Your definition of haters is espescially true, I used to be that way myself. If I wanted to make an image for myself I would (without realizing) begin to shun the antithesis (or what I believed to be) of the trait I was trying to promote. Now as I have grown older I am finding I have stopped doing this, I accept myself and I worry less about upkeeping any sort of image.

In my own personal theory I think almost all haters stem from the issue of them hating themselves. They are afraid they are "not manly enough" for example, and thus try to make up for it. Another way it can work is the kid who is picked on transfers their negative feelings to something weaker (a child who is bullied bullies their younger sibling). All in all haters are the people who rely too heavily on coping mechanisms, lost in a downward spiral of self-loathing (which they probably don't even fully realize).

I believe this is why they retaliate so much when the subject is explained to them, they don't want to learn. They would rather remain ignorant of their own true feelings so that the pain can be avoided. They choose a false immediate reward over a long term reward that would cause them to have to learn to truly accept themselves.

The two ideas, mine and yours, are not mutually exclusive. They're different, but only like two different physical processes. Both may happen in the same hater, or one may happen in one and another in another.

They may actually be interconnected, though:

They are afraid they are "not manly enough" for example, and thus try to make up for it.

The exact same driving force.

Though, I want to add: They feel it's "not manly enough" based on an inaccurate stereotype of manliness. I do believe there are elements "to being a man", it's just they're very different from the sterotypical perception. And how they make up for it, is based on that very same inaccurate stereotype.

Kill the stereotype, and you kill the problem at it's root. The hater won't even know why he doesn't feel like a zealot on a crusade against MLP anymore, if suddenly it's not the antithesis of manliness.

Another way it can work is the kid who is picked on transfers their negative feelings to something weaker (a child who is bullied bullies their younger sibling). All in all haters are the people who rely too heavily on coping mechanisms, lost in a downward spiral of self-loathing (which they probably don't even fully realize).

But a different response to that driving force. Interestingly enough, in my OP I don't recall ever saying how people respond to the hate, I only said why they hate, and one example of hate [violent fics], not at all an inclusive list. So I don't even see the reason for calling them two different theories

Edited by EASA - Dr. Braun, 15 February 2012 - 06:21 PM.

[RockinRarity]

I think I'm beginning to realize something about myself.

I decided about a year ago that I was very glad to be an adult, and that I don't miss being a child in the least. Here's why:

As a child, I was made fun of often - by my brothers and my classmates - whether it was because of my hair, or my glasses, or my love of anime. As a child, I was surrounded by closed-minded haters. And sometimes I still am (although usually by people on the Internet, who resort to child-like behavior when it comes to expressing their distaste for something). But as adults, most people have the courtesy to not attack me personally for my opinions, and honestly, that makes all the difference.

There are other reasons for me disliking childhood, but that's for another topic.

I love, though, that I have the freedom to enjoy what is good about childhood as an adult through MLP.

I think that you are absolutely right about what it means to grow up. It's not about watching the right TV shows or being a particular kind of man or woman. It's about selflessness. Not only do I get to experience happiness through selfless acts that I may claim as my own, but I'm surrounded by other people who, while they aren't perfect (and neither am I), they do try to be good and they try to be selfless.

MLP, in a lot of ways, is about growing up. Total purposeful isolation, IMO, is pure selfishness. It tells the world that you're too good to spread your goodness to others. Even if you only have a few family and friends who you would give your life for, that is good. People were made to be with each other. That's why Celestia wanted Twilight to make friends with others. But Celestia didn't put Twilight with people who are just like her. Celestia put her with 5 very different mares with hardly a thing in common. What draws them together? The magic of friendship.

These ponies could hate each other. For example, Rarity can see Applejack as somepony who is the "opposite" of her and say that she doesn't want to associate herself with the likes of her for whatever reason - particularly if it will trash her own image. But after arguing in Look Before You Sleep, they see the differences between them as good things that help their lives become better.

[SailorCardKnight]

Because the previous generations left a very bad impression on people.

[NeverNeverland]

A show that is intended for children, based on and made for things that girls like, and now grown men are watching it and expanding on the MLP franchise in different and creative ways. And you ask why people hate it?