Fluttershy - if that is what you really want...

[spacestorm 183]

After last episode I've been thinking over Fluttershy's attitude towards friends.
I wish to emphasize this to focus only on her relations with friends.

I have to say that I have mixed feelings about her attitude after she agreed without a hint of objection to terms of the trade - just to make her friend happy. In fact the whole day she devoted solely on helping Rainbow Dash in getting that book completely putting aside her own needs.
Putting aside exaggeration of said situation, isn't this one of the most valuable traits we'd like our true friend would have? This wasn't the first time she acted like that (e.g. "Green Isn't Your Color" comes to mind). Isn't her altruism, complete devotion and willingness to sacrifice herself for friends not only makes her admirable but even more generous than Rarity in a certain sense?

Or would you rather say that this is her biggest flaw making her a total doormat lacking of even a shadow of assertiveness which you'd hate to see in your true friend? Maybe she likes to be used by her friends?

[Scootalove 10,684]

I don't think of it as the biggest flaw, though Fluttershy did this before. Unless they exaggerate this trait to where its almost obvious that she would do it again and again. I would hate to see a friend of mine like this.

[MarcelineA 126]

it's not exactly a flaw it's nice but the episode  where she went to the "not being a doormat training" (I just watched that yesterday for the first time so I can't remember the name of it) she got overly aggressive and said REALLY mean things to Rarity and Pinkie Pie and I get that this "new Fluttershy" is what caused this BUT it makes me think and wonder "Is she like this inside?" because the stuff she said seemed like its something she was holding on to for a while and idk but that made me change my mind on the level of her "niceness" she's just like the rest of them perhaps MAYBE a little less she's just scared of other Ponies judging her or yelling at her because that's just her personality but what she thinks inside is scary to some extent o_o idk but when I have friends and they have a reasonable passion for things (even if it's not my passion) I'm still supportive of them INSIDE unless it's hurting themselves in a way or hurting other people

Edited April 22, 2014 by MarcelineA

[Ribbonfree 2,382]

It's all about context. You should know when to put your foot down, if what your friend is about to do is probably going to hurt you or somebody else or themselves you need to be able to speak up, because otherwise something bad is probably going to happen and it will be your friends fault. But when nothing is at stake, the ability to put your wants aside in favor of another is an incredible trait. It's simultaneously a strength and a weakness depending on the circumstance, which is how most human traits tend to work. Even cardinal sins like pride and greed have their place.

[ghostfacekiller39 23,856]

Rarity is generous, but in a way much different than Fluttershy as she DOES take care of herself, too, and care about her own needs, managing to do so while being generous to a fault. Rarity looks out for others first, but she does look out for herself as well.

 

Fluttershy, on the other hand, cares about others but isn't strong enough to stand up for herself. Letting her friend sell her into slavery wasn't being generous, that was just being foolish and weak, something Fluttershy desperately needs to work on.

[Anilewe 2,178]

For me, it's a flaw (maybe not biggest, but still) and I wouldn't want to have someone like that as my very close friend. I expect that my friend will tell me, when I do something wrong and don't realize it. Sometimes even kick me (not literally, of course), if I do something bad and hurt myself or others. 

 

 

Her behaviour reminds me of toxic relationships, in which people don't know how to express their opinions and feelings in proper way and suffer, because they're unable to leave that other person, even if they should. It's not healthy, it's toxic and I try to avoid toxic people in my life. I agree, love is important, but love shouldn't be more important than anyone's needs. 

 

Rarity is generous, but in a way much different than Fluttershy as she DOES take care of herself, too, and care about her own needs, managing to do so while being generous to a fault. Rarity looks out for others first, but she does look out for herself as well.

 

 

100% AGREED. It's exactly what I'm talking about. You can't ignore yourself in a relationship. You need to find a balance and Fluttershy... well, she's far from finding it. Besides, her behaviour in "Trade Ya" was completely unrealistic, even for someone as shy as she. Not to mention that this episode seems to ignore everything she learned through last few seasons (especially in Bats and It ain't easy being breezies). Maybe if it was at the beginning of season 4, then I'd believe in it, but now? No. 

Edited April 22, 2014 by Anilewe

[spacestorm 183]

@@MarcelineA,

You're right, this can be a big inconsistency in her character presentation. However being in such state of mind like e.g depression; anger, grief and other negative feelings can arose inside, even towards friends. So I would say that the new Fluttershy didn't present her real mind in majority. Negative thoughts about her friends could pop out in her mind time to time, it's normal in some situations, but in normal state of mind she would quick reflect herself that she is wrong. Anyway I think that her present strong altruistic attitude comes from her feeling of the need of redemption. Maybe It's a little far-fetched explanation but the best that comes to my head right now.

 

 

 

Fluttershy, on the other hand, cares about others but isn't strong enough to stand up for herself. Letting her friend sell her into slavery wasn't being generous, that was just being foolish and weak, something Fluttershy desperately needs to work on.

It is, in our point of view, but what if sacrificing herself makes her happy in some way? Anyway, that situation was too extreme to explain it by her shyness. So either she is stupid like you said or have some martyr's and masochistic tendencies or want to punish herself for something.

 

I hate that they show her to be able to kill for her animal friends while being very restrained and aloof if it comes to ponies.

I hope it came out just from very bad writing, not from intended character development. How they showed her behavior in this episode makes this trait a big flaw, but with toning it down and rationalizing her actions more it would be a very admirable virtue of her.

 

 

 

Her behaviour reminds me of toxic relationships, in which people don't know how to express their opinions and feelings in proper way and suffer, because they're unable to leave that other person, even if they should.

It's sad because with this depiction of her served us by writers makes the possibility of her being abused in future relationships to be very likely (somehow expecting to be canon in future).

[silvadel 1,393]

In this case RD is looking for something one-of-a-kind to complete her collection.  Fluttershy recognizes the value there and is willing to spend a couple of months rearing an orthros (which is well within and an enjoyable part of using her talent) to help out RD if it is important enough to her.  I expect that she would also assume that RD and her friends would take care of her animals in the meantime, so it is not exactly one way -- they need to handle her duties during the period.  This is in a way similar to how Rarity could have ended up in Manehattan.  She could have spent a couple of months designing costumes.  Really I think she SHOULD have ended up stuck in Manehattan for a while and it robbed from the episode that she did not. 

 

What is interesting about the episode is when RD cancels the trade, Fluttershy is the ONLY pony who got the trade she wanted in the end, getting her bird call.

Edited April 24, 2014 by silvadel

[Anilewe 2,178]

 

It's sad because with this depiction of her served us by writers makes the possibility of her being abused in future relationships to be very likely (somehow expecting to be canon in future).

 

I honestly can't imagine her in a healthy relationship with anyone. Her "I'm sorry that I'm alive" attitiude will always be her problem and she'll probably agree with others only to make them happy, even if consequently - she'll be unhappy. What rubs me the wrong way is fact, that it is a very bad example for little girls and people in general. Especially considering that the purpose of this cartoon was to show that women can be strong and independent. And yeah, you can be shy and independent. Strong. Able to defend yourself. I don't know why writers seem to ignore everything she learned through the past few seasons. If they don't want to develop her character - okay, but why are you giving her all those lessons, if in the end she doesn't remember about them in the next episode? Honestly, actually her characterization is so inconsistent it almost hurts. Once she acts like Fluttershy from the beginning of season 1, to suddently become Fluttershy from 'Bats'... You never know how she's going to be portrayed this time. 

Edited April 24, 2014 by Anilewe

[spacestorm 183]

 

 

I honestly can't imagine her in a healthy relationship with anyone. Her "I'm sorry that I'm alive" attitiude will always be her problem and she'll probably agree with others only to make them happy, even if consequently - she'll be unhappy.

This moves me even deeper beause I knew a girl who was almost exacly like Fluttershy. She had very low self-esteem, and tend to take decision which makes her suffer like she would like to punish herself for something. Like Fluttershy she seemed to forget the lessons learned every time. Like she was hating herself or something.
I really don't want Fluttershy to go that way further.

 

I hope the situation will change in future. The issue with depiction her character resemble a problem with Rarity shown to be too greedy in previous seasons.

[Anilewe 2,178]

This moves me even deeper beause I knew a girl who was almost exacly like Fluttershy. She had very low self-esteem, and tend to take decision which makes her suffer like she would like to punish herself for something. Like Fluttershy she seemed to forget the lessons learned every time. Like she was hating herself or something.

 

A lot of women act like that. There's plenty of reasons why, but conclusion is always one: it's unhealthy and in the end, relationship always suffers and usually ends. Even I acted like that, but now I know how stupid I was and I feel ashamed of it. I was ready to sacrifice myself for the sake of the relationship, but in the end everything was worse, because I felt frustrated and the whole situation made me - and my friend, too - feel bad. I'm actually surprised that most of bronies is unable to see how toxic Fluttershy's behaviour can be and how bad example it is for young women. But what scares me even more - why writers seem to don't see it... Fluttershy has exceptional potential to deliver the lessons about being confident and brave. Or about ability to distance yourself from the things and people, who hurt you... She has potential, which is constantly wasted and I honestly don't know why. 

[Flutter's lover <3 8,204]

For some of it, to me she was being selfless towards Rainbow. Fluttershy  cared so much about what Rainbow wanted. Fluttershy mentioned it taking months to train the animal. Which she didn't seem to mind all that much, seeming she did like the animal, even if she was away from her friends. It was more or less like "I don'y really feel like doing this, but I'll do it for you." Though I had a mini heart attack when they mentioned Fluttershy staying in Manehattan for months, because I would've missed her. So I was hoping for some intervention, which did come, in the form of Rainbow realizing she was trading her friend off for a book.

 

I mean, I can also see it being Fluttershy not being assertive, but it's all in the context. I mean, she stood up to Twi and RD fighting in Testing 1 2 3, as well as in Bats, The Breezy episode and again in Filli Vanilli, she stood up to her stage fright. This episode it was out of love for a friend. But it could also be said that, she should've used the "tough love" bit she learned in the breezy episode to tell Rainbow "no". Which I kind of agree with.

 

In the end I think my opinion comes from a little bit of Column A and a little bit from column B.  She should know where to draw the line of being selfless, and when to be assertive.

 

 It's like the writers "forget" about the lessons and then exaggerate that trait. Stuff like this always happens in episodes where they exaggerate a negative/not so good trait of a character. Like in Rainbow falls and Hurricane Fluttershy, they focused on her inability to fly well. Yet other episodes,she flies just fine.

Edited April 24, 2014 by xFlutterdash

[spacestorm 183]

@@silvadel,

This decision was too serious to take it so rashly. Taking care of animals aren't that easy, first she should prepare everything and give instructions to the ponies who would be responsible for her pupils. But it seemed that she intended to leave just as she stood.

 

@@Anilewe,

I hate that her potential is wasting. I love her character, but mainly how I see her and her traits in my imagination.
I think that this is the main reason why many people hate Fluttershy.

 

Her problem with toxic behavior in relationships is somehow similar to the problem Pinkie Pie has. By very different reasons both can suffer by decisions they take to make thier friends happy. Fluttershy tends to quietly sacrifice herself by putting others needs above her (passive form), on the other hand Pinkie Pie engages herself  too much and reacts very emotionally to failures (active form).