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The probable end of the fandom for me.

Veil

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I have said this kind of thing before. I have been on this topic a lot. The two easy parts to this are the show might end, maybe not. Either way my choice. It's also hard to make new friends or start a relationship when your a fan of mlp and have all this pony junk lying around. It's just kind of the way it I guess.

So the main reason I'm doing this blog is this is hopefully the last time I'm going to bring this topic up ever again, though it probably won't... damn it. For those that don't know Toonkritic or what he did, well google it. I'm sure most people know. I've thought about this trash way too much, and the more I keep looking into everything that was happening with this guy. It keeps getting so much darker and so much god damn worse. I'm disgusted for far too many reasons, I came into this community based on what so many people were saying about it that, bronys are really caring nice people, they except everyone, they don't do the awful things that all the haters say they do... but it was all a fucking hoax. It's like everyone uses this to get away with horrible shit. "No way, no one would ever do things like Toon did. He's not a real brony then. He's gotta leave". I watched the skype calls, I read several other articles and other videos that have exposed this guy for doing all of the terrible things he did to people, but... there is one other big issue that is quite obvious in all this junk, and the patterns all lead to it. ALL THESE FRIENDS OF TOON TRIED TO COVER IT UP TILL IT WAS TOO LATE! I mentioned somewhere else already that Josh Scorcher should not have been so judgemental of Toon for the fact that he was dating a 16-year-old when he was 23... this still hurts to think about. There is no hard evidence to prove they are all pedo's, but it seems very likely. I've met some of these people, I regret it and wish it never happened. I hate pedophiles for so many reasons as well. I also think I hate myself for not being close-minded and telling myself don't watch the show. I'm not sure I'll return to read comments... maybe I will. Most of the comments are gonna be people trying to defend themselves. I understand. That's why all the brony analysts did what they did... not cause it was the right thing to do, cause they're afraid to lose their power in the fandom. What's all that horse fame worth when all these people are getting hurt, and whats worse where do they go? Who can they talk to and tell? Like someone else said when Toon was groping girls at Cons, no did anything about it, cause he's horse famous... I also know not everyone in this fandom is like this, but it's very unfortunate that it's hard to trust anyone at this point when so many people knew this was going on as well as they probably know about other horrible crap that's still going on. It's hard to associate with other people in a group because of all this. I'm sorry, but all of this last part is more than enough reason that makes it time to move on from all this. It also feels I've been lied to being told bronys are great people and then this giant wall of text. I'm very disgusted.

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Leave if you want I'm not going to stop or convince you otherwise, but I must say you're acting very ignorant. I've been a brony since I was 15, and I've had no problems making friends... hell I don't even hide the fact I'm a brony, I have plushes, shirts, even my monitor is covered in mlp stickers. Your argument only gets worse if you find the actions of ONE HUMAN BEING, more than enough to convince you that this fandom is not as it seems.

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1 hour ago, Snow Frostflame said:

Leave if you want I'm not going to stop or convince you otherwise, but I must say you're acting very ignorant. I've been a brony since I was 15, and I've had no problems making friends... hell I don't even hide the fact I'm a brony, I have plushes, shirts, even my monitor is covered in mlp stickers. Your argument only gets worse if you find the actions of ONE HUMAN BEING, more than enough to convince you that this fandom is not as it seems.

You truly believe its just one person? Are you sure about that?

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Just now, Veil said:

You truly believe its just one person? Are you sure about that?

I never said that... every group in existence whether it be professional, or a fandom will have its bad apples. What I did say, is that you seem to be flipping out over a single YouTube celebrity doing some questionable things. I don't condone what he did, but if that's enough for you to write a five paragraph essay on why you're leaving the fandom then truly you're a sad person Veil. But like I said back then, I'm not here to convince you to stay, I just wanted to show you your own ignorance. So if you truly feel this way, then leave without a second thought. Cause all you're showing to me and everyone reading these comments is that you want to cause drama.

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I thought this fandom believed in love and tolerate... guess things just change.

Please, I welcome more comments. Feel free... and be honest.

Edited by Veil

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21 minutes ago, Veil said:

I thought this fandom believed in love and tolerate... guess things just change.

Please, I welcome more comments. Feel free... and be honest.

You're being a bit hypocritical there Veil, if you believe in love and tolerance like the rest of us then why are you causing so much drama over something that isn't effecting you? You're only proving my point further that you're here simply to cause drama.

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How is it causing drama to express my frustration at the number of youtube videos I have watched of people that have been hurt by Toon. The other thing is these people that he was hurting got the same ridicule that I'm getting from you at the moment. You seem to be taking offense because you think I'm trying to make the fandom look bad, but actually, I'm trying to express how terrible this situation is, and that a fandom that prides itself on love and kindness allowed all of the numbers of things Toon did. I was never a fan of Toon. I did not know what kind of person he was up until now. I just never expected to see this fandom be so terrible. I just don't understand why everyone is being so defensive about this?

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dating a 16-year-old when he was 23...

 

FYI: 16 is the AOC for most states.

 

Toon, however, targeted a 14-year-old (which is illegal in all states) -- and didn't merely date her, but outright tried to groom her (which is also illegal in all states).

 

Apples and oranges.

 

15 hours ago, Veil said:

a fandom that prides itself on love and kindness allowed all of the numbers of things Toon did.

 

The same fandom that, once they found out, didn't hesitate to report him?

 

Quote

I just don't understand why everyone is being so defensive about this?

 

Not about Toon, but about generalizing the entire fandom based on one criminal who just happened to be a member.

 

As the saying goes, "Correlation does not imply causation."

Edited by A.V.
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I can't change your decision but everypony here in the fandom reported ToonKriticY2K for his crimes.

 

Everypony hates ToonKriticY2K since the incidents and aligations.

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Listen, if you want to leave, be my guest. I won't stop you. But don't say things like that about an ENTIRE FANDOM (which, by the way, is about 99.99% full of good people) because of the actions of a SINGLE GUY. One man does not stand for the entire fandom. The fact that the whole community IMMEDIATELY turned on him should be proof enough.

 

Am I hurt? Yeah. Am I disgusted? Absolutely. But the fandom isn't to blame. So don't try to tell me it is.

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Here's my take:

 

Let's be clear here: Toon is not the only person in this fandom engaging in sexual misconduct. I can confirm personally as I was an admin on a few brony sites that this issue happens more than just this once. I'm not going to call it an epidemic, but the fact that people keep screaming "not the entire fandom!" and "it's one guy!" is pretty telling. When I worked on those sites we were explicitly told to downplay incidents like this and try to keep them from going public for fear of the fandom looking. Now look at what so many of you guys are doing: exactly that.

The problem here is that the focus for most even in this blog alone is try to find a way to excuse the fandom of blame or protect the precious reputation of the fandom. That comes off as many of your first and for some only priority here. It paints an image that this is the kind of fandom that tries to downplay these things to protect its own ass rather than focusing entirely on the problem and neutralizing it.

The fact that the discussion of defending the fandom is even happening during these trying times is pretty telling and honestly anyone who is trying to defend the reputation of the fandom is taking attention away from a serious problem and downplaying it. Screaming crap like "it's just one guy!" is sort of coming off as "it's not that big a deal" to some, including victims of sexual assault. It tells them your priorities are making it about yourself and not the victim. Seriously, you're not helping your own cause here.

 

 

My message to you directly, Veil:

 

We don't know each other, and that's unfortunate.

I'm not going to feed you a bunch of crap and say it's just one guy or this stuff is rare in this fandom, because truthfully I can't say that with 100% confidence. I can't control what anyone else does, only myself.

I recognize your fear. I understand it. I understand how it can be difficult to trust when you see something like this, and your anger, your fear, your disappointment is not misplaced. You are valid in feeling how you do, any sane human being would. You deserve to be able to feel those feelings, that's your right and I wouldn't dream of robbing it of you.

I personally could care less about defending the fandom. I don't care how this guy's actions makes the fandom as a whole look. I am also not going to promise they will all improve the situation, or restore your faith in them.

What I can promise you though, is that will not take this sitting down. I can promise that I personally am not going to forget Toon's actions, nor forgive them. I will pressure for him to face justice and for this victim to get the help she deserves. And that if I ever see this shit, I will speak up. I will say something, I will not let someone suffer when my voice can change it. I encourage others to do the same and I will never tell someone to suffer in silence. I don't care how it make the fandom I partake in look, I will never allow someone to suffer like this.

I also welcome any who need ears to hear them to approach me.

I can't promise you that the fandom will do better, but I can promise that I will do better and encourage others to do better as well. If you are frightened, I understand and I am here if you need someone to listen. I'm not going to downplay your fears, I'm going to give you the facts that I understand and I will make sure that my actions set an example for others.

If you feel leaving this fandom is the best choice for you, then you should do that. You are not wrong to do so. You have the freedom to do that, and you deserve to not be shamed for it as many here are doing.

I don't care to remind you that there are good people in the fandom, because I'd rather remind you that there are good people everywhere you look in the world. Stay safe. If you need someone to talk to, I am here. If you decide to leave, I wish you well.

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@Key Sharkz  I'm going to 100% honest. We have talked briefly on the forums in the past. I didn't really care for you much at all. However, your response was basically a large missing part of my explanation and a really thank you for that. So yes the reputation of this fandom at this point is not important, it's all the people that Toon hurt and the people that knew he was hurting all these other people. Again I really appreciate this, it's good to see some people understand why it's important to look out for others. Even if your afraid your reputation will be scared. It won't, doing the right thing is going to speak much louder than being afraid of the backlash of one creep.

@A.V.  I've spent the last few nights watching statement videos from former friends and victims of this guy and let's clarify this one last time. PEOPLE KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING FOR YEARS! All it takes is to report it. Report to admins, the police, convention security. You also request to be anonymous. Toon is a bastard, but this is more about the community just doing the right thing when we see someone doing things that are wrong.

Edited by Veil

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16 minutes ago, Veil said:

@Key Sharkz  I'm going to 100% honest. We have talked briefly on the forums in the past. I didn't really care for you much at all. However, your response was basically a large missing part of my explanation and a really thank you for that. So yes the reputation of this fandom at this point is not important, it's all the people that Toon hurt and the people that knew he was hurting all these other people. Again I really appreciate this, it's good to see some people understand why it's important to look out for others. Even if your afraid your reputation will be scared. It won't, doing the right thing is going to speak much louder than being afraid of the backlash of one creep.

@A.V.  I've spent the last few nights watching statement videos from former friends and victims of this guy and let's clarify this one last time. PEOPLE KNEW WHAT HE WAS DOING FOR YEARS! All it takes is to report it. Report to admins, the police, convention security. You also request to be anonymous. Toon is a bastard, but this is more about the community just doing the right thing when we see someone doing things that are wrong.

Truthfully I don't remember, either way. I wish you well.

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I find it a bit silly to leave the fandom over what Toon did. Not because it's damaging to fandom's reputation or anything, but more because if you shouldn't to let the actions of horrible people prevent you from taking part in something you enjoy. I mean, once you start doing that, you're quickly going to discover that you're not going to be able to enjoy anything anymore. 

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Just now, Yamet said:

I find it a bit silly to leave the fandom over what Toon did. Not because it's damaging to fandom's reputation or anything, but more because if you shouldn't to let the actions of horrible people prevent you from taking part in something you enjoy. I mean, once you start doing that, you're quickly going to discover that you're not going to be able to enjoy anything anymore. 

I'm gonna try to break it down again one more time cause my original post is really long. Toon is garbage. The part that bothers me more is that many people knew about the type of things he was doing. To list a few, he was cheating on people, he was emotionally abusing a girl which is also a crime, he grabbed a girls butt at brony con which also is a crime. So with all these things that became public or where mentioned to other people in the fandom, no ever did anything about it. People knew about this stuff but no did anything to stop him and remove him from the fandom.

The other thing that's killing this fandom for me is the number of people that are getting defenses about the reputation of the fandom. The reputation doesn't matter, I'm just trying to give a little advice that could help everyone out in the future. You someone doing terrible things, you kick them out, you warn people of the activity and if its something criminal you report it to the police immediately.

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Just now, Veil said:

People knew about this stuff but no did anything to stop him and remove him from the fandom.

Yeah, some people did and that was also horrible. However, my point still stands. Don't let the actions of a small group of people prevent you from taking part in what you enjoy. 

 

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16 hours ago, Veil said:

I thought this fandom believed in love and tolerate... guess things just change.

"Love & tolerate" hasn't and will never be a mantra that everyone as a whole will follow. Whether they as individuals will follow it or not is their choice. Otherwise, consider bronydom a religious cult, which it objectively ain't.

Quote

ALL THESE FRIENDS OF TOON TRIED TO COVER IT UP TILL IT WAS TOO LATE!

If you read what his friends (i.e., Josh Scorcher) stated, it's more nuanced than that. Toon emotionally manipulated and/or tricked his friends in and out of the analysis community and covered it all up, and a large chunk of his friends didn't know. When the minor he solicited came forward to British Ninja, he gathered the evidence, everyone confronted him, and filed the report to both the FBI and his local police department. Josh, GoldenFox, Voice, Lightning, and many others temporarily kept quiet the previous week in order to let the investigation run smoothly. When it all leaked and we rightly bashed Toon for being such a creep, he went into hiding, making it harder for anyone to track him. Bronydom responding to TK with such a massive uproar forced the analysis community to respond earlier than intended.

You can read Josh's content for fuller info here and here.

Quote

I also think I hate myself for not being close-minded and telling myself don't watch the show.

This attitude is incredibly petty. The fandom hasn't and shouldn't dictate what you or any of us enjoy out of the project. The brony fandom is a complete bonus, separate from the series.

And @Yamet is right on point. Using vile people like TK as your final indicator of quitting FIM is silly. If you keep up with this path of scapegoats, it'll snowball to the point where you may not not enjoy anything anymore. Don't let a couple of inedible grapes make you decide to throw out the whole clump.

15 hours ago, Veil said:

I did not know what kind of person he was up until now.

Most of us didn't, Veil. That's why the fandom was beyond shocked and hurt to go with outraged and disgusted when the news came forth.

 

Edited by Dark Qiviut
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6 minutes ago, Yamet said:

Yeah, some people did and that was also horrible. However, my point still stands. Don't let the actions of a small group of people prevent you from taking part in what you enjoy. 

 

I can honestly agree. Another of my local friends did basically state the same thing.

 

Another thing I just wanna bring up to anyone that is still following this topic is that one of the people being mistreated by Toon had tried to reach out to others and unfortunately at the time people didn't want to accept that he was a bad person so she suffered backlash for trying to inform others of his actions. So it's important to remember that some people do just try to frame other people but not all the time. It's a tough situation but it is important for everyone to remember that it does happen, it's just an all-around complicated situation. This is kind of hard to explain.

@Dark Qiviut at this point I'm still not sure what to fully believe. I'll most likely need to do more research on everything. It is important to me to be careful when taking others word for it. As you can understand this is a large part of this overall issue. Without hard evidence its hard to say what is fully true about how anyone chose to handle the situation. It's just very complicated.

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2 hours ago, Key Sharkz said:

Here's my take:

 

Let's be clear here: Toon is not the only person in this fandom engaging in sexual misconduct. I can confirm personally as I was an admin on a few brony sites that this issue happens more than just this once. I'm not going to call it an epidemic, but the fact that people keep screaming "not the entire fandom!" and "it's one guy!" is pretty telling. When I worked on those sites we were explicitly told to downplay incidents like this and try to keep them from going public for fear of the fandom looking. Now look at what so many of you guys are doing: exactly that.

The problem here is that the focus for most even in this blog alone is try to find a way to excuse the fandom of blame or protect the precious reputation of the fandom. That comes off as many of your first and for some only priority here. It paints an image that this is the kind of fandom that tries to downplay these things to protect its own ass rather than focusing entirely on the problem and neutralizing it.

The fact that the discussion of defending the fandom is even happening during these trying times is pretty telling and honestly anyone who is trying to defend the reputation of the fandom is taking attention away from a serious problem and downplaying it. Screaming crap like "it's just one guy!" is sort of coming off as "it's not that big a deal" to some, including victims of sexual assault. It tells them your priorities are making it about yourself and not the victim. Seriously, you're not helping your own cause here.

This fandom has had a bad reputation since day one, I know that, and so does everyone else on this site. I understand that there are problems within our community... though its not just our community. Every group to ever exist will always have at least one bad seed. I'm not trying to play off anything, I'm well aware that there are pedophiles, and all sorts of malicious men and women who represent this fandom... but those people don't make up our majority. I can't say I've been a victim of sexual assault, nae can I say I know any loved one who were... my condolences to Toon's victim. Though our point isn't to downplay sexual assault in the name of defending the fandom, our point (or at least my point) is that leaving behind what you love over one event is completely ridiculous.

Edited by Snow Frostflame

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There's a lot of paragraph walls of text in these replies, so I'll make mine short.

If you feel for any reason that you want to leave the fandom, then go ahead, it's your decision and no one will stop you. I wish you the best of luck on your future endeavors and hope that one day you can look back and remember the good times you had while you were still a fan. 

With regards- The Citizens of the Brony Community  

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Wow, drama. Can't be bothered to read even half of this. You wanna leave, leave. Hope you have a great time and good life. :fluttershy:

 

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6 hours ago, Snow Frostflame said:

This fandom has had a bad reputation since day one, I know that, and so does everyone else on this site. I understand that there are problems within our community... though its not just our community. Every group to ever exist will always have at least one bad seed. I'm not trying to play off anything, I'm well aware that there are pedophiles, and all sorts of malicious men and women who represent this fandom... but those people don't make up our majority. I can't say I've been a victim of sexual assault, nae can I say I know any loved one who were... my condolences to Toon's victim. Though our point isn't to downplay sexual assault in the name of defending the fandom, our point (or at least my point) is that leaving behind what you love over one event is completely ridiculous.

If that's not your point then why are you doing it and still doing it even in this post? Shaming people for wanting to leave? Really?

Why are you only bringing up the victim NOW after I point it out and called people out?

You're representing the fandom you which to defend so much very badly right now. You may not realize you're doing it, but you kind of are still doing it. If you know the fandom's rep is already shot why are you even wasting your time on that?

 

Again in this very thread ever AFTER MY STATEMENT, STILL NOT SEEING ANYONE TALK ABOUT THE VICTIM BUT ME HERE!

 

@Dark Qiviut @Snow Frostflame How about you stop talking about the fandom and why you shouldn't leave the fandom and defending the fandom and start talking about what you're going to do to prevent this from happening in the future and the victim? Seriously you guys seem more interested in lecturing people on why they shouldn't leave the fandom over this than being proactive in explaining what you are going to do to make it not a problem anymore.

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1 hour ago, Key Sharkz said:

AFTER MY STATEMENT, STILL NOT SEEING ANYONE TALK ABOUT THE VICTIM BUT ME HERE

Because the focus has not been put on the victim but on a member leaving the fandom. 

Back in the thread about Toonkritics deeds, I agreed with you that too much focus was being put on the fandom and its reputation rather than on the specific incident and on the perpetrator and the victim. That was a discussion where the fandom's reputation did not matter or at least not as much and the discussion should have primarily been focused on the specific incident in of itself, but what can you really do when it is located in the Sugarcube where discussion about the fandom usually goes about? 

 

But in this discussion, this is about someone leaving a fandom and people are just stating that they find the reasons either dramatic or misguided. 

 

@Snow Frostflame  and @Dark Qiviut are not wrong to be focusing on aspects of the fandom in this instance since the focus has been put on the fandom and on the OP themselves (by the OP). And to be completely honest, looking at DQ's response, the only instance where I see him even focusing on the fandom is on his last line stating that the fandom as an entity was disgusted over the Toon incident. Otherwise, his entire response was about philosophical aspects of not letting a specific incident ruin something someone loves. I don't see any wrong in that. 

 

About them having some duty to perform to make sure to make people want to stay in the fandom. It is not really their job or rather, they might not have all the solutions to that problem, but they can still state their opinion on certain other matters especially if the focus is being put on another matter. In fact, when thinking a bit more about what they are saying, it seems more like "Let's not go over the top and take any kind of rash actions before we have at least talked this out and figured things out". Because leaving means there won't be participation in discussions and trying to find a solution to a specific problem. But again, someone leaving does not bear any kind of responsibility to be participating in said discussion or in trying to find solutions. Their free will. 

I also note this, that which you quoted yourself: 

7 hours ago, Snow Frostflame said:

Though our point isn't to downplay sexual assault in the name of defending the fandom, our point (or at least my point) is that leaving behind what you love over one event is completely ridiculous.

 

 

Their stance is perfectly valid given the focus of this blog. 

 

1 hour ago, Key Sharkz said:

more interested in lecturing people on why they shouldn't leave the fandom over this than being proactive in explaining what you are going to do to make it not a problem anymore.

Again, not really their responsibility or duty. They are not wrong in pointing things out even if you may disagree with where their focus lies. But they can not really be proactive in resolving a problem for someone if that certain someone has already left. 

 

I agree with you when it comes to shaming people. People shouldn't really shame people for wanting to leave. But if a person offers a reason for why they are leaving, people are given the opportunity to respond and so far, I have not seen anyone in this thread crossing some kind of line. 

 

 

As for the OP themselves, if you want to leave, you are welcome to leave. Such is the case for every place where you have the freedom of choice. Nothing wrong with not wanting to be part of something that one does not want to be a part of, especially if you are uncomfortable with being part of it. 

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