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Has freedom gone too far?

Totally Nyx

Entry posted by Totally Nyx

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On the surface, even a good ways beneath the surface, freedom is a good thing. Freedom from tyranny, freedom from oppression, freedom from strife, freedom from pain, freedom from hunger. The list goes on. But at what point have we taken it too far?

I'm just gonna look at three very general types of freedom that I think in one way or another have been or are close to being taken too far. And before I begin let me just say, at no point in here am I targeting anyone or blaming anyone. This is just a topic that's been on my mind for a good while now.

I'll start with the most general of them. I'm not sure exactly what to call it but perhaps freedom from control. Naturally people want to make their own choices and not have their actions forced on them by someone else. It's good to be able to live life your way, not someone else's. But as we break rules that tell us what we can and can't do, that limit us in some way, where do we stop? It seems to me it's no longer freedom from other people's rules that we want, but from all rules of nature. Like we don't want to be what we were born to be. And no, I'm not talking about destiny or anything of that nature, I mean on a much more literal level. We don't like how we look? We change it. We don't like our features? We change them. At what point will we decide we don't like having only two eyes, or two arms? After all, aren't we free to live however we want?

Another freedom that's getting to that point, I guess a good way of putting it is freedom from want. Yes, we want to be free of living in hunger or poverty, so it's nice to have the opportunity to earn a living, enough to get more than just the bare necessities of life. But what about when we stop seeing that as being free to work for a decent living and start seeing it as free to get stuff, everything, just "hey that's nice, give it to me, I'm free to have it". This one seems a bit far fetched, but when you think about it it's very definitely present and a real mindset out there.

The third type of freedom I'll mention is freedom from pain. I'm not saying people shouldn't have access to hospitals or should always be enduring some kind of suffering, nothing of the sort. But it bugs me that people would want laws against talking in a way that can possibly offend or hurt someone's feelings. People aren't some fragile creatures to be broken by some words given with no ill intent. Of course you're not gonna make friends if you go around being rude to everyone, probably won't be very good at keeping a job that way either, but that's your choice. And on the other end of that spectrum, if you're the one receiving insults or even just unfiltered comments, it won't kill you. Cope with what was said and you'll better be able to the next time in your life something similar is said to you. You're not gonna get along well with everyone, you're not expected to, but don't expect them to go out of their way to be as nice as possible to you either.

 

These are just some things I thought of off the top of my head, so it does worry me a bit what will happen when humanity completely takes the desire for freedom too far. I hope we can rein it back in a bit.

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SoberStarlight

Interesting topic to think about. I'll have to sleep on it, and then maybe I'll have a more detailed response later. 

Reminds me of this picture I saw the other day...

image.thumb.png.58d4135d6765e5ba4b534ceb4b9d26cd.png

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Here No Longer

1. I disagree with this point for the most part. Freedom from control should stop simply with things such as robbery, embezzlement, or rape. In other words, things that actually harm other people and animals in a tangible way for an unjust reason (butchering shouldn't count here. More for animal assault and rape and other offenses of that nature). Religious freedom laws did this in the past by allowing vendors to deny LGBT people wedding cakes because they simply don't like them, and plenty of colleges have done this as well with their "speech codes".  If people don't like that they have two eyes or two arms, that's their problem and quite frankly not mine. They will just have to pay the surgery bill and deal with impairing themselves and horrifying other people for the rest of their lives which sounds bad enough to dissuade people I'd think.

2. I can agree with that point, mostly because I see exactly where it leads. However, I only agree to an extent. I only agree with you to the point where people working minimum wage aren't earning enough money to sustain themselves. Which in some places is actually occurring, but I won't list specific places here. Let's just say that the list is substantially larger than people may think or, as I've observed, even accept without attacking me for telling the length of the list and some countries that would be on it.

3. I totally agree with this point, as in this case "freedom from pain" should never had to do with anyone's feelings in the first place. When it gets to that point, it ends up actually becoming an infringement on people's freedom of control, as it doesn't allow people to say things unless it caters to specific people. I see this in the process of happening. Though I frankly don't know who will make it happen first here in the United States, between triggered American Nazis along with Christian fundamentalists and triggered Black Lives Matter activists along with AntiFa. My biases tell me the former will get that privilege first, but only time will tell. Hopefully neither side get the freedom to dictate others.  

 

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Castle Bleck
5 hours ago, ~Dusky~ said:

Religious freedom laws did this in the past by allowing vendors to deny LGBT people wedding cakes because they simply don't like them,

 

 You're not applying that to all cases, are you?

 

Because while homophobia (that is, active malice toward LGBT people -- not merely disagreeing with them) does exist, it's a long-established fact that certain religions do forbid LGBT lifestyles as well as contributing to them.

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Here No Longer
3 minutes ago, A.V. said:

 

 You're not applying that to all cases, are you?

 

Because while homophobia (that is, active malice toward LGBT people -- not merely disagreeing with them) does exist, it's a long-established fact that certain religions do forbid LGBT lifestyles as well as contributing to them.

So it's okay for them to force their doctrine on other people at a f***ing bakery? Okay.

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Castle Bleck
32 minutes ago, ~Dusky~ said:

So it's okay for them to force their doctrine on other people at a f***ing bakery? Okay.

 

Yet you don't see the irony in forcing them to disobey their beliefs?

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Here No Longer
23 minutes ago, A.V. said:

 

Yet you don't see the irony in forcing them to disobey their beliefs?

I'm not forcing them to disobey their beliefs at all... I'm telling them not to force them on other people. Huge difference...

Edited by ~Dusky~
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Castle Bleck
36 minutes ago, ~Dusky~ said:

I'm not forcing them to disobey their beliefs at all... I'm telling them not to force them on other people. Huge difference...

 

And they're not forcing their beliefs on anyone; they simply don't do a specific service (which is easily solved by just getting the cake from somewhere else).

 

Huge difference as well.

Edited by A.V.
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Here No Longer
1 hour ago, A.V. said:

 

And they're not forcing their beliefs on anyone; they simply don't do a specific service.

 

Huge difference as well.

They don't do it because apparently their beliefs don't agree with it, and forcing other people to get wedding cakes elsewhere if they don't believe the same thing?

 

Not a huge difference at all.

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Castle Bleck
3 minutes ago, ~Dusky~ said:

They don't do it because apparently their beliefs don't agree with it, and forcing other people to get wedding cakes elsewhere if they don't believe the same thing?

 

Not a huge difference at all.

 

Let's just agree to disagree.

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ShadOBabe
8 hours ago, ~Dusky~ said:

I'm not forcing them to disobey their beliefs at all... I'm telling them not to force them on other people. Huge difference...

No, @A.V. is correct. You are forcing others to support a lifestyle they don’t agree with. It’s like forcing that same baker to make a pot leaf shaped cake, or one with vulgar words written on it, even if they weren’t cool with that. That baker has every right to say no, and the person can go find someone else to make the product they desire.

Heck that’s capitalism. If the baker still does well despite their refusal to produce certain products, then good. But on the other hand, if they don’t get enough business because they won’t make just anything anybody wants, well that’s the market.

Besides, why WOULDN’T you want to just go somewhere else? If the person doesn’t want to make you something because it’s clashes with them ideologically, why get all pissed and DEMAND that they take your hard earned money? Plenty of other businesses would be thrilled to relieve you of that same cash.

Edited by ShadOBabe
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