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Rings, Proposals, and Double Standards


Justin_Case001

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[This is a Life Advice vent I wrote couple of years ago.  I wanted to save it in my blog for easier access.]

Hi, I'm Justin Case.  You may remember me from such vents as "Can Men Be Beautiful?".  Today, I want to talk about another double standard that really irritates me.

I'm so sick of the continued double standard than men must always do the asking, the proposing, the buying of rings, etc.  Often times, women still tend to wait to be asked out and proposed to, and if nothing happens, they assume the guy isn't interested, or isn't serious.  Is this the year 1300?!  Why don't we guys just go up to the girl's father and buy her for two goats and sack of corn meal?!  Why can't we erase these antiquated double standards and gender role stereotypes?  I often read this advice column in the paper, and the other day there was one of these stereotypical letters:

(Paraphrasing) "I'm a thirty year old woman.  I've been with my guy for X years, and I want to get married, but he hasn't proposed or given me a ring yet.  What do I do?  I guess he's not serious about us.  Maybe it's time for me to move on."

Why.  Don't.  You.  F*CKING.  ASK.  HIM??!!

This kind of thing gets me really riled up.  Sorry.  And I'm not suggesting that it should be the other way around, either.  Why can't it just be 50/50?  Whoever wants to ask, just ask.

And don't get me started on the engagement ring thing.  Why can't a woman buy an engagement ring for a man?  Or, why not skip the rings if you don't want to do it?  It's not a requirement, but people treat it like it is.  Society paints this picture of men having to win women over with a grand gesture, work hard to woo them, buy an expensive gift for them, and if we're really lucky, she'll say yes.  Why can't a woman propose to a man?  I know, I know--it's because woman are beautiful, and men are undesirable australopithacines, a fact society loves to pound into me every day.  So sick of the double standards.

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I'm married.

It was a group decision.

My mother in law bought the rings. Just sayin'.

 

Okay I am going to be real here for a second and I want you to take this with a grain of salt: I have seen a lot of your blogs regarding women, relationships, etc. and is it possible that perhaps you have some resentment toward the dating scene for your own lack of prowess in it? Not trying to be a bitch here, but I can't help but notice you complain a lot about how men (which you are) are unattractive and women are so lucky... I am sensing a lot of animosity toward women and it's becoming internalized self hate.

Why do you have such animosity toward women, might I ask?

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4 hours ago, Key Sharkz said:

Okay I am going to be real here for a second and I want you to take this with a grain of salt: I have seen a lot of your blogs regarding women, relationships, etc. and is it possible that perhaps you have some resentment toward the dating scene for your own lack of prowess in it? Not trying to be a bitch here, but I can't help but notice you complain a lot about how men (which you are) are unattractive and women are so lucky... I am sensing a lot of animosity toward women and it's becoming internalized self hate.

Why do you have such animosity toward women, might I ask?

I want you to take THIS with a grain of salt: Are you only posting this because you're offended by what he's posting? I don't see what would be so offended by it, but your tone here makes it seem pretty obvious that it's it to me.

There was literally nowhere that he even hinted at animosity towards women.

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5 minutes ago, Barique said:

I want you to take THIS with a grain of salt: Are you only posting this because you're offended by what he's posting? I don't see what would be so offended by it, but your tone here makes it seem pretty obvious that it's it to me.

There was literally nowhere that he even hinted at animosity towards women.

I'm not offended at all. Why would I be?

I am merely trying to assist. I apologize if it comes off as I'm "offended" or trying to attack anyone, thus why I prefaced my post with "take this with a grain of salt" and even "I'm not trying to be a bitch here". I have merely noticed a trend or pattern in the way this person posts blogs and that they all seem to connect to a similar subject. The previous one was being upset that men can't be seen as beautiful and that women can, and this one now is upset that men are obligated to do all the work in proposals and marriage. I merely noticed a pattern and proposed it as a potential source of where these feelings are coming from. The one before the previous one was talking about how men are "the villains" and how it's unfair and women have all the advantages, etc.

Sometimes we have to say what people don't want to hear to truly help them. I can't help but notice that in the past three blogs they have been complaining about how the world is unfair to men and that women have all the advantages.

When someone makes three blogs in a row complaining about women, I feel it's only logical to propose an animosity toward women as a potential cause, wouldn't you? Logically speaking it makes the most sense.

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1 hour ago, Key Sharkz said:

I'm not offended at all. Why would I be?

Sometimes we have to say what people don't want to hear to truly help them. I can't help but notice that in the past three blogs they have been complaining about how the world is unfair to men and that women have all the advantages.

When someone makes three blogs in a row complaining about women, I feel it's only logical to propose an animosity toward women as a potential cause, wouldn't you? Logically speaking it makes the most sense.

I don't know why, but you make it sound like you are.

So...? That automatically makes his arguments about the subject invalid...?

When somebody makes a reply complaining about a post that's only trying to promote sexual equality (no matter the concern), I feel it to be logical to question if they're somehow offended or not. Also, if you think he was actually complaining about women, instead of about society, you didn't read the posts.

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37 minutes ago, Barique said:

I don't know why, but you make it sound like you are.

 

How does text sound?

I assure you that I'm perfectly fine.

37 minutes ago, Barique said:

So...? That automatically makes his arguments about the subject invalid...?

I never said that.

37 minutes ago, Barique said:

When somebody makes a reply complaining about a post

I'm not really complaining, I am asking a question and wondering why the user in question seems to be very focused on such a subject.

38 minutes ago, Barique said:

that's only trying to promote sexual equality (no matter the concern)

There's no such thing as sexual equality. Sorry but sex is a person's choice and they are allowed to be as prejudiced about it as they desire because it's their body and they have every right to not give it up to another person based upon any reason. There's no reason to bother promoting something that won't happen.

40 minutes ago, Barique said:

I feel it to be logical to question if they're somehow offended or not.

I do not understand that logic, but furthermore is all you intend to do just try and flip my posts back on me and use my words in a reconstructed sentence against me? I mean it's pretty clear you're looking for a reason to take issue with myself, and trying to get some kind of emotional reaction out of me when I have made it pretty clear that I am operating on logic, not emotion or offense.

41 minutes ago, Barique said:

Also, if you think he was actually complaining about women, instead of about society, you didn't read the posts.

I did read the posts. I am stating that I feel he is angry that women get a "better" hand in society by his perception. 

Again, I don't see why you're going to far out of your way to find a reason to take issue with me, but I don't really find any of this productive. I'm sorry if something I said offended you, that was not my intent.

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3 minutes ago, Key Sharkz said:

There's no such thing as sexual equality. Sorry but sex is a person's choice and they are allowed to be as prejudiced about it as they desire because it's their body and they have every right to not give it up to another person based upon any reason. There's no reason to bother promoting something that won't happen.

I do not understand that logic, but furthermore is all you intend to do just try and flip my posts back on me and use my words in a reconstructed sentence against me? I mean it's pretty clear you're looking for a reason to take issue with myself, and trying to get some kind of emotional reaction out of me when I have made it pretty clear that I am operating on logic, not emotion or offense.

I did read the posts. I am stating that I feel he is angry that women get a "better" hand in society by his perception. 

Again, I don't see why you're going to far out of your way to find a reason to take issue with me, but I don't really find any of this productive. I'm sorry if something I said offended you, that was not my intent.

This is a pretty lousy excuse to be against the idea.

Ironically, you just made it seem even more so that you are operating on offense, by slandering my post meant to question your intention behind these replies. But you're taking it as an attack. I never said you were I was just saying it seems like you are, but apparently all you read into it is that I'm somehow trying to anger you by questioning your own motives for posting these replies to his blog. 

And I'm stating that your perception makes you seem like a third-wave feminist. Making the argument that he has no reason to ask questions on society because they're all about men is kind of nonsense. Apparently it must be made clear that I don't mean offense by that, because when I question your argument you seem to believe I'm trying to start something. I only asked a question concerning the nature of your post.It was toned badly, sure, but that was all it was.

I'm not going out of my way at all. All I've had to do is read what you typed. If it wasn't meant to be the slightest bit inflammatory, you've made it very easy to misinterpret.

 

 

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@Whomst'd've, @Key Sharkz:

Ok, I'm going to be the Fluttershy in this video.  Let's all just chill.  All of it was just misunderstandings.  Everything's cool.

So, Key Sharkz, you could be more right than you know, actually.

On 3/19/2018 at 2:40 AM, Key Sharkz said:

is it possible that perhaps you have some resentment toward the dating scene for your own lack of prowess in it?

I'm sure that is more than a little true.  I won't deny for a second that my ruminations about society, women, dating, marriage, sexual/gender double standards, etc, have likely been colored by my life position, my loneliness, my lack of experience, and the fact that I'm a 32-year guy who's never been on a single date.  Oh man, fo sho, dude.  Yeah, I'm sure that I'm a wee bit biased, and I definitely have some resentment issues (which I'm trying to work out with my therapist), however, I definitely do not resent women specifically.  I resent society.  But my therapist has been trying to help me see that some of my resentments and perceptions of society aren't true, and just false mindsets that come from the media and such.  Yeah, there's a lot of personal issues for me to work on.

That said, I still believe that many of my arguments in these blog posts and elsewhere are valid.  I think society does have many unfair and unnecessary sexual double standards.  And Whomst'd've, I really appreciate you trying to stick up for me, there, and noticing that I'm trying to promote sexual equality.  Thanks.  So, really, in a way, I'd say you're both right.

And Sharkz, I was kind of...um....for lack of a better word....uh, flattered, I guess, that you actually paid enough attention to my writings to notice a pattern.  I dunno....I was just kinda like, "Oh, wow!  Somebody actually reads my stuff?!"  That's cool.  That was nice.  So, thanks.  Y'know, like thanks for noticing and trying to help, I guess is what I'm sayin'.

Edited by Justin_Case001
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