Flutterspark

Yes! Another person on this forum who believes the Bible is inerrant. It is an honor to meet you. First up, thanks for your openness. I personally don't find debating a very enjoyable activity. (And yet I, like so many others, find it difficult to walk away from them. Hmmm. Unhealthy habit, wouldn't you say?) However, debates are wonderful tools for helping you to work out exactly what your own beliefs are. Trying to explain a concept to someone else is a great way to understand it yourself, in my humble opinion. You've given me some food for thought, I hope I've given you some in return. I just wrote some different things I could say now, but I found myself deleting them. The problem is that you do not accept the Bible as unerring. We have no common ground. MINOR EDIT: The problem is that you do not accept the Bible as the unerring Word of God. You don't hold it in a position of authority. You are basically disregarding the very thing all of Christianity is based off. However, I will give my response to some of the statements you made. First, "Flaws are what makes us human"? What were Adam and Eve then? God is what makes us truly "human", in the good sense of the word. You'll find that the most inhumane people are the ones furthest from God. You go on to mention "this apparent fear of what happens if you screw up". One, I never said I had a fear of screwing up. I believe Jesus Christ died and rose again to save me from the unbearable (but just) consequences of my sins. I have eternal life in Him now, and so can everyone else. Two, what does my opinion on that have to do with what we are discussing? Your most recent post I read as I was still writing this. I think you are arguing that because there are multiple, different translations of the Bible, we can't trust any one of them? That's rather silly, in my opinion. Just because there are multiple English interpretations for the same original text does not mean the original text is bogus. If you look at the trusted, verified, and well known translations such as the New King James Version or the New International Version, you'll find that they give the same meaning on every verse, just using different words to express it. Still, none of this has any bearing on the original text. You then go on to write "... nobody knows the one universal answer ...". That's a very gloomy statement to make, and I assure you that it is a false one, too. It is God who provides that universal answer. Indeed, if God is wise and merciful like you say (and He is), why wouldn't He provide answers so that we may know more about Him and grow closer to Him? Lastly, you say "We could argue for until the sun burns up, but neither one of us would get anywhere." The reason we are not getting anywhere is because we have been rapidly losing common ground, rather than gaining it. On the contrary, Christians on a whole have gotten somewhere. And that somewhere is a very wonderful place. ...And look at me, I've just written a 2000 character post after I already said that we have no common ground. It's been good talking with you, Shoboni. Thank you for your politeness. I'm going to drop out of this debate, but if we switch to another topic, I'll always be happy to give my input. (Actually, that's more likely the real problem xD) If you would like to know more about the Universal Answer, I again recommend you to read C.S. Lewis's Mere Christianity. Please PM me with your questions if you ever do. Here's the link to that so-so online version again: http://lib.ru/LEWISCL/mere_engl.txt - - - Oh my, Windy Scamper just got her post in before I could do mine! Now it'll look like I just ignored the post above me. Ah, well, I'm sure things will work out.

I appreciate the fact you are seriously considering my post, but I think you're still missing the point. It's not about us at all, it's about God. God has put us in an all or nothing situation: We can accept God, follow Him, and be turned into a beautiful creature that works to His glory in every way. Or, we can choose not to follow God and, eventually, be turned into an awful, demon like creature who only knows hatred and cannot see the Light because he doesn't want to leave the darkness. If we choose God, it must be because we truly want to serve Him, not for our own glory or perfection, but for His. Perfection is something that is thrown into the bargain, so to speak. (But please understand this is not a bargain, it is a gift.) It is only the Holy Spirit who can create this willingness in us, and there is only one pathway to becoming one of God's children. In John 14:6, God speaks clearly on this point: "Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me." (NIV) There is no other path to God apart from Jesus Christ. And additionally, God tells us: "Be perfect, therefore, as your heavenly Father is perfect." - Matthew 5:48 (NIV) Perfection is not is not a goal. It is a command. Now, certainly, God wants us to try our hardest, and He knows that we are flawed creatures. But God is the King of the Universe. He wants so much more from us than you or I even have to offer at the moment. If you follow God, and He can only be followed through Jesus, God will make you into something perfect. He will not allow you to stay as you are, whether you like it or not.

You, mam, are a rational Christian. Certainly, we need more people like you. I would be interested in a Bible study, but I may need more details about exactly what would be expected before I commit. Maybe we could do a trial week (or couple of weeks)? See who really wants to stick with it? - - - On a side note, I find it rather amusing that there's been an atheist bronies thread set up in the time I've been gone. Hmmm, I wonder if our presence is causing some people to feel insecure... - - - Sir, I believe you have missed the whole point of Christianity. God is not interested in "good people" or "decent people", he is interested in a whole new kind of person. If you allow Him, He will change you into a completely new kind of man. That man will be much more than a "good person". That man will be much more than a "decent person". That man will be like God. Like a "little Christ", to use C.S. Lewis's term. And He does this for His glory. "If we let Him-for we can prevent Him, if we choose-He will make the feeblest and filthiest of us into a god or goddess, a dazzling, radiant, immortal creature, pulsating all through with such energy and joy and wisdom and love as we cannot now imagine, a bright stainless mirror which reflects back to God perfectly (though, of course, on a smaller scale) His own boundless power and delight and goodness. The process will be long and in parts very painful; but that is what we are in for. Nothing less. He meant what He said." - C.S. Lewis, Mere Christianity But I encourage you to continue to search out the truth for yourself. You might be interested in reading Mere Christianity, in which C.S. Lewis explains Christianity for the common layman (like myself). It's an incredibly intellectual book and it was huge eye-opener for me. I found an online version here, if you're interested: http://lib.ru/LEWISCL/mere_engl.txt

I have Christian friends who like Skillet, if that helps? None of them are bronies, however. I like the style of some of their music, and I know they're supposed to be a Christian band, but I'm still figuring them out.

Scary stuff! I don't doubt the same sort of things happen in Christian communities as well. It is truly very disheartening to see innocent yet somewhat ignorant people become corrupted like that. Well you see, I believe that God's love is unconditional. It's being saved that has conditions, but God will still love you whether you are saved or not. God has given us free will and will not force us either way. It's very unfortunate that there is a lot of hypocrisy among people who say they are Christians, and then even among Christians themselves. To quote Jesus: "Woe to you, scribes and Pharisees, hypocrites! For you are like whitewashed tombs which indeed appear beautiful outwardly, but inside are full of dead men’s bones and all uncleanness. Even so you also outwardly appear righteous to men, but inside you are full of hypocrisy and lawlessness." Matthew 23:27-28 (NKJV) That's certainly a good question. I believe that God chose to give people free will, and thus the capability to do evil. He gave us the choice to follow Him or to live our lives as we saw fit. And, as it turned out, most people prefer doing it their way, being unable to see the big picture and God's great plan. Our God is perfect, holy, and righteous. When we go against his perfect will, we are committing the universal definition of ultimate sin. By His ultimately just nature, He had to give us the punishment for our actions, which is eternal death. Still, God chose not to just wipe us all out and start again. He chose to instead give us a second chance, another opportunity to do His will. God did this by sending His Son to Earth in human form. We welcomed Him by crucifying Him on a cross. But, through that sacrifice, Jesus took on the blame for all of our crime onto Himself. Jesus is perfect, like His Father, and that made Him the ultimate and perfect sacrifice. Jesus took the death punishment in place of every human being that ever had lived, or ever will live. Even death could not hold Jesus, though, and He rose again on the third day after His death and eventually ascended back to heaven. From the Bible we learn that: "For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life." John 3:16 (NKJV) We no longer have to deal with the consequences, because Jesus already did. But, it requires us accepting the gift. As I said before, we have free will, and God will not force us to be forever free from death and sin. At the end of days, God will judge every person who ever lived. Those who chose to accept the sacrifice of Jesus Christ for them, have been made righteous in God's eyes. When God looks on them, He sees His Son. They enter into the kingdom of heaven. Those who refused to accept the gift are still unrighteous in God's eyes, and face an eternal separation from Him, an eternal death. In the meantime, God is still giving us the free will to accept or refuse, to follow Him or to go against Him. That is why God allows hate in this world. Free will.

@, Wow! That is indeed a beautiful way to remember Christ's sacrifice. @@RockinRarity, Ok, yes. I see your point. I agree that their are homeschoolers who become that way because of their lifestyle and the enviroments that they are put (or not put, as the case may be) into. However, school is certainly not the only way to achieve social interaction. Yes, homeschool groups and church groups. There are homeschooling sports groups as well. There are homeschooling science groups. There are all sorts of homeschooling groups. How much social interaction you get is all based on what you choose to do. Homeschooling is not a social barrier unless you let it be one. Yes, there are families who may do social harm to their children by not encouraging interaction, but they do not represent homeschooling. If your style of homeschooling is doing your child harm, you need to try a different style. I'm quite an introvert as well, and I used to be an even bigger one. I would come home from a full day of social interaction at school tired and exhausted. There was nothing wrong with that particularly. But, there was the addition of bullying. Even more, there was growing sense inside of me that while it was supposed to be a christian school, there was so much injustice going on. I began to hate going to school. I became very angry sometimes. I believe it also may have contributed to my lack of self-confidence in my pre-teens. Yes, kids should be challenged and given opportunities to build character, but is going to school always the healthiest way to do that? For some it's absolutely fine. For others, not so much. There are probably school kids who miss out on close friendships just because they go to school, and they don't get the opportunity to meet certain homeschoolers. That doesn't make going to school a bad thing. In the same way, if I was going to school I would not have met some very close friends of mine. None of this makes homeschooling any better or worse than regular schooling in this light. As I was saying in my previous post, homeschooling comes as a scale. A range. For kids that like structure, and I'm one of those too, parents should give their children a level of structure. The benefit of homeschooling is that this level of structure can be adjusted to suit your needs. Most schools do not give their students this freedom. Exactly. The school system as we know it has pros and cons. It is not the be all and end all of education. Neither is homeschooling. It's just that homeschooling represents an endless range of different learning styles. These styles also have pros and cons, and are not the be all and end all of education either. But, each family has the freedom to tailor a setup that suits the needs of their children. Some families succeed well at this. For some families, their children may actually be more suited to a school environment. Sure. I agree. The point I'm trying to make is that some of those bright and creative students at school, do not learn as well in the traditional manner. For those students, homeschooling may be beneficial to them in helping them to reach their full potential. As well, there are many creative and bright students who are recognized as such because they learn really well with the school system style of teaching. Those kids should probably stay in school. (Unless, of course, there is some other reason they would do better at home. e.g. Bullying, parents want to teach them Christianity but there is too much anti-Christ stuff at school, etc.) Eeyup. I completely agree.

In favor of homeschooling, I have known homeschoolers from three different countries, and I have had experience with several different types of homeschooling myself. I want put it out there that it is very difficult to make assumptions about what homeschooling actually is. This is because there are so many different things that come under the term "homeschooling" and there are many, many different reasons that kids get homeschooled. I know a guy who for several years was taken out of school and did only "natural learning". I was homeschooling then, but I was still skeptical. Natural learning for him basically meant he had no curriculum whatsoever. And how well did it work for him? He was really fast at maths, he was very artistic, he enjoyed playing strategy and thinking games, he was very socially adept, mature for his age, he took up the saxaphone and when we last parted he was doing very well with it. His family owned a small piece of land that they grew vegetables on to support themselves, and he knew a lot about plants that way. He wasn't planning to go to university, but he already had most of the skills he needed to support himself as an adult. Why was he pulled out of school in the first place? The teachers gave him a hard time because he raced ahead of the other students in arithmetic. Additionally, he was bullied. Now, there is the complete other end of the spectrum, where a kid is doing school... at home. The full school curriculum but at home. I would label this "distance education", but even that term has a range of meanings. The majority of homeschoolers I know, some of them now back at school, are very bright and/or very creative people. Often they are very far ahead of other school children. Yeah, there are some socially awkward ones but they are the minority. Plus, socially awkward kids get homeschooled because they can't work well in a traditional environment. They were not pulled out for no reason and then became socially awkward because they homeschooled. One of the reasons that many kids like homeschooling, is because they get the freedom to go at whatever pace suits them. Faster for things they are good at, slower for things they find difficult to understand. Mind you, not all homeschoolers have this freedom. I'm talking about the ones somewhere in the middle of the spectrum between "school... but at home" and "complete learning freedom". As I have been saying, often kids who are homeschooled have a lot more free time and/or curriculum flexibility than kids at school. There are many kids who use this position to learn. Learn of their own free will. Think about that. Children and teenagers taking up new skills and hobbies just because they want to. Yeah, there are school kids who do that too, but can you imagine how much easier it is when you don't have school hanging over your head all the time? My mother decided to try homeschooling me because I was bullied. It was in a large portion due to the fact that I was a Christian. The funny thing was that it was supposed to be a Christian school. There were ups and downs, but in the end, I am incredibly glad that I'm homeschooled. I have an entirely new view on the educations system, I've met loads of amazing people who were also homeschooling, and I've had the flexibility to be able to take up programming. In the first 6 years I was homeschooled, I and my family were overseas. Several locations in the UK, and eventually Virginia in the US. Through all that, I never once felt like I wasn't having enough social interaction. Home education groups, homeschool networks with frequent homeschooling events, etc. I also had a fair amount of interaction with school kids as well: Youth groups, Scouts, swimming classes, etc. Now I'm back in Australia, and technically doing "distance education". The Australian government doesn't like the term "homeschooling" very much. The distance ed school I'm with acts as a shield between you and the government, so that you can homeschool legally. They also provide meetups once or twice a week for the students, with classes like drama, dance, singing (optional), critical thinking (i.e. playing puzzle games), etc. There has certainly been no lack in social interaction! I hope this has been informative. I don't wish to get into another debate, because this issue has nothing to do with salvation. But, I hope I have given you a glimpse into a very interesting world of education. It all boils down to this: Please, give homeschoolers some love. EDIT: @@Vinstar59, Listening to the music you posted.... Wow. @@TheFabulousPony, It's very open of you mention that you are Wiccan! I'm kind of impressed, as I can imagine that most threads with a large number of Christians on them would immediately grab pitchforks. It's also nice to meet another Australian brony.

@@Joy, Nice to meet you, Joy. God bless you. Awww, I'm sorry to hear that. I'm homeschooled, and I really enjoy it. I understand that there are many different ways to homeschool, though, and it doesn't suit everyone.

@, Thank you for pointing that out. It's pretty sad that the Big Bang is often taught and regarded as fact in today's society, despite it's vagueness. Thank you for making me think more thoroughly about exactly what I believe! @, Indeed, it is really nice to hold a civil debate with someone. I get stressed out about debates really easily, and I'm very glad that nothing has become heated. @[member=Mister G], I'm loving the jargon! Fortunately, Evolution is forensic/origins science, as I mentioned before. It can never be "proven". And you're right, science can never prove or disprove God. Science studies just the physical world, but it cannot study the things behind and beyond the physical. So rest assured! @@Vinstar59, Hey, and welcome! That's a very indepth response to my arguments, thank you! I think that by this argument, you are implying that there must have been physical death before the Fall, if it was only our souls that were affected. This comes back to the points I have already been discussing, such as "Why did God call a world with death 'very good'?" Why can we not say that sin brought spiritual death for humans as well as physical death for all creation? You bring up some interesting points here. I actually agree with all of what you're saying in this section, apart from one point. I agree that God uses the Holy Spirit to impart His truth to us, both through the Bible, and through His creation. I also agree that we need to be more clear on what we mean when we say "truth". As you allude to, something can be "true" as in "fact", not fiction. Something can also be true as in that it agrees with God's eternal Truth. The point I disagree with is what you go on to discuss further: Firstly, why couldn't you give the Bible a "history book" label? God's Truth can be just as apparent in a real-life story (a.k.a history) as it is in one of Jesus' parables. Secondly, why would you say that you can't look to the Bible for all the answers? I'm not talking about answers to questions such as "Should I stay at home today?", I'm talking about answers concerning questions about God's Word and His truth. All answers you find from other sources will either agree or disagree with the Bible. If an answer agrees with the Bible, God's Word, than it is God's truth. If it disagrees with the Bible, it is false. In the end, you are still looking to the Bible for the final decision. 2 Timothy 3:16 (NIV): "All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness," This verse backs up what both you and I have mentioned, that the Bible is definitely from God. Therefore, it must be both "true" and True, because our God is Truth. Any other sources must be tested against something solid that we know is from God. Answers that the Holy Spirit puts in our hearts will still agree with, and be backed up by, the Bible. So it does have all the answers when one gets to the root of the matter. Paul, in the verse I just quoted, 2 Timothy 3:16, said that all scripture is "God-breathed". In John 14:6 (NIV), we read: "Jesus answered, “I am the way and the truth and the life. No one comes to the Father except through me."" God is Truth. He is also perfect. How could Truth breath scripture that is not true? And if scripture is true, and I believe that it is, why shouldn't we as Christians say "this is what we believe is true"? The Bible is presented as history. Would our perfect and truthful God cause an inaccurate (i.e. false) history to be written? I think not. The problem with Evolution, is that it fails on a basic level. It is beyond far-fetched. Your logic confuses me a bit. Firstly, while life may seem to follow a certain pattern today, whether it be an Evolutionary one or not, we must remember that this is a post-Fall world. We can't look at a different and imperfect world, and use it decide how the world was before the Fall. Secondly, how can you first say that the universe is very old, and then turn around and state that there is evidence saying otherwise? Evidence does not speak for itself, it must be interpreted. An old earth/universe is just one (faulty) interpretation of the evidence. One can take that same evidence and use it for the interpretation of a young earth/universe. So you're saying that God planned billions of years of death and suffering? How could a good and perfect God intend such a thing? I certainly hope what we see today is not the creation God called "very good". God just "poofing" everything he imagined into existence sounds pretty amazing and incredible to me. And the fact that God made living things so that they could multiply, and by natural selection, split into many different and wonderful species. The fact that Creation attests to His glory even after the Fall and a global flood is just spectacular. Don't you think that the Creation itself is yet one of many things that points to salvation and God? Romans 1:20 (NIV): "For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse." There is no "truth" found by man that can contradict God's truth. Anything that seems to conflict is revealed to be untrue under close examination. Thank you, and you too. I hope I have provided sufficient explanations for my disagreements with your arguments. I don't not wish you any ill-will. I merely wanted to show that our God and His Word defeats every supposed "contradiction" that man has ever and will ever come up with. @Everypony, Thank you to everyone who participated in this debate! It has been a very deep discussion that has caused me to think very carefully about what exactly I believe, and I hope you have been inspired to do the same. I am unable to continue debating further, as it takes me a very long time to write these posts. Time which I do not have to spare on a regular basis. I want to finish by confronting what seems to be the real root of all these arguments. Evolution. Society has relentlessly pounded us, claiming that Evolution is fact. Evolution has contradictions with the Bible in many issues, and this causes many Christians to try and fit God's truth into a man-made, untrue mold. The relief for all of us is simply this: God's Word is true, and Evolution is false. Want to find out more? I beg you to do research of your own, and the following links will give you a great starting point: 15 Questions for Evolutionists - "15 fundamental questions that evolutionists have no satisfactory answers to." Did God Create Over Billions of Years? - This article addresses the problems with accepting an Old Earth/Evolution and Christianity at the same time. 'No Death Before the Fall'? - This article goes into further detail about what exactly is meant by "death" in "Did God Create Over Billions of Years?". It answers a bunch of problems that people commonly have with the first article. 'It's Not Science' - Why Evolution is not the kind of science it is implied to be. This article cleared a lot of things up for me about the different types of science. Age of the Earth - This article provides 101 evidences for the young age of the Earth. The Carnivorous Nature and Suffering of Animals - What about carnivorous animals? What were they doing before the Fall? Did animals hunt each other before the Fall? Q&A Biology - Links to loads and loads of articles on Creation versus Evolution. There are even links to articles that are responses to objections people had with the above linked articles. Again, thank you. It has been an honour to debate with you ponies. God bless you all.

Wow, this is becoming a wealthy discussion! @, Hello! It's amazing how many bronies there are that are followers of Christ! I agree with you for the most part. What one thinks about the Creation of the world is not the deciding factor in whether one is saved or not. What I'm trying to stress is, it's a secondary issue, but an extremely important one. The article I linked to also stresses the importance. If the world is billions of years old, and if the fossil layers tell us this, then there are big implications for the rest of the Bible: "To summarize, the age of the earth was derived from the rock layers, which have fossils in them, which puts death, suffering and disease before the Fall. The Bible is clear that there was no death before Adam (Romans 5:12)." This is why, while it is a secondary issue, getting it wrong means the Bible conflicts with itself. This then introduces problems with the primary issue, getting saved. If the Bible has a hole in it, how can we trust it to be factual? If we can't trust it to be factual, how can we be sure that we are saved? The top of a building may contain much more importance than the foundation of the building, but if the foundation is faulty, how can that building stand? Obviously we, as Christians, already know that the message of Jesus Christ is the truth. We have experienced it firsthand. Knowing this, we can not be quick to accept the possibility of a faulty foundation. EDIT: Evolution + The Big Bang and the Bible both try to give explanations to the origin of life, the universe, and everything. The Bible is a historical document with a reliable eye witness account, from God. Evolution is one interpretation of the evidence we have around us today. I don't see why they cannot be compared. Both are contradictory to each other, as the Bible says that God created the universe, but Evolution says the universe made itself. One can't hold two contradictory items to be true at the same time. @@RockinRarity, Thank you. I agree. It's interesting you should say that. Creation Ministries International have another article in response to a letter someone wrote. The letter was itself in response to Did God create over billions of years?, the article I have been referencing. This article is called 'No Death Before the Fall'? "Your whole argument seems to hinge on the idea that there couldn’t have been any death before the fall. Death of nephesh chayyah creatures, to be more precise. We don’t argue that plants and insects, etc., didn’t die before the Fall, and “what about skin cells” has always been a ridiculous straw man argument: we believe that certain forms of cell death would have had to be programmed at creation, as they are necessary for all multi-cellular life. Broadly speaking, there was no death of vertebrates." Another article on the CMI website (yeah, I like these guys ), The Carnivorous Nature and Suffering of Animals, answers questions about parts of creation being carnivorous. It's a very long read, and I don't pretend to have gone through it all, but I did think this quote kind of gives the gist of the article: "But however much, or little, pain and suffering there is in nature, the Bible indicates that the present state of things is not the ideal—God did not make it this way originally. Also, it was God who subjected the whole creation to ‘futility’ and its bondage to decay." It would have been very easy for an omnipotent God to change creation after the Fall. This is quite interesting, and I hadn't thought about this in depth before. In your example, though, the Bible is still giving a literal historical telling of an event as it actually happened: Jesus using hyperbole. And yes, it's the context which is what allows the correct interpretation of that passage. The same goes for the book of Genesis. We can look at the Hebrew words in Genesis, and then look at the context of those words in other parts of the Bible to see what the author meant. From the "Did God Create Over Billions of Years?" article: "Practically every Christian leader and theologian who lays out his reasons for believing in long ages rather than the biblical timescale has to admit that Genesis—when read at face value, in the Hebrew as well as the English translations—teaches a straightforward creation in six normal-length days. And that this is powerfully backed up by Exodus 20:11, part of the Ten Commandments, which shows the Genesis days were understood as normal-length days, with no room for millions of years or gaps in the text to insert them. But they unfortunately accept that science has somehow ‘proved’ millions of years, which is actually not the case." As it is not a fact that the Earth is billions of years old, Genesis looks to be literal by these guidelines. @@Ezio Auditore, Hi Ezio, it's good to meet you. Our God is a wonderful God! I believe the Bible explains historically how everything was made. There is no scientific method which can prove the age of the Earth. You are correct, science, which is about studying the physical world around us, could never disprove or even prove God, who is beyond physical. I want to point out here to everyone, that there are two types of science that are easily confused. There is origins/historical science, and operational/experimental science. Operational science is probably what comes into your head when you hear the word "science": Doing experiments, making observations based on the outcomes, etc. But, Evolution, Old Earth, and New Earth world views are all origins science. Everyone has the same facts, but different interpretations. Origins science is purely this, educated guessing. It can never actually prove anything. The only way to know for sure about the age of the Earth is by reference to a reliable eye-witness account (e.g. for the creation of the Earth, the Bible citing God). Alternately, someone (Doctor Whooves) could use a time machine to go back in time and then use operational science to figure it out. For more information on this, see 'It's Not Science'.

Argh! Accidently closed the tab in which I was writing this... 1. I don't know what God's original plan for animals would have been, either. "God saw all that he had made, and it was very good. And there was evening, and there was morning—the sixth day." - Genesis 1:31 (NIV) Genesis states that God saw all that He had made, and it was very good. I don't think that God would call the death of animals "very good". From the CMI article: "Some alleged ‘experts’ try to sidestep this ‘very good’ issue by saying that the Fall only caused human death and disease. This cannot be true. For one thing, Romans 8:19–22 clearly teaches that the curse of death and suffering following Adam’s Fall affected “the whole creation”, i.e. the entire physical universe." 2. Science is about finding out about the physical world around us by experimentation and logical reasoning. The Bible is a historical document. One cannot really apply the word "science" to a historical document, but instead only talk about whether it is true or false. Either way, if Genesis is not a literal and factual telling of events as they actual happened, than how can we trust the rest of the Bible to be? Again, the article: "While it is possible to be a Christian and believe in an old earth, it would indicate that one has either not thought through the consequences, or that the Bible is not the ultimate authority for one’s faith. If Genesis is not real literal history, how can one know where the truth actually does begin in Scripture? Today’s ‘science’ also ‘proves’ that men don’t rise from the dead. So if we allow that same science to tell us that Jesus has not risen from the dead (which would be consistent in the compromiser’s worldview) then our “preaching is in vain and your faith is in vain,” as the Apostle Paul wrote (1 Corinthians 15:14)." The Bible, as a book title, is not a source of truth. God's Word is the source of Truth. There can be no other truth than God's Word. The Bible's contents is God's Word. How could there be other truths besides God's Truth? There couldn't be unless the Bible isn't really God's Word. And if the Bible is not God's Word, then one has no basis for Christianity whatsoever. ---------- Please imagine me speaking that without any malice or anger. I wrote it purely to defend my beliefs and also to inform, not to fight.

I remember being with a group of Christian kids, learning some simple worship songs to sing, so that we could entertain a large group of children in the near future. It was a really good feeling to have just our voices, together. It definetly united us more than just a couple of us playing guitar would have. I unfortunately cannot view the video, as my internet is too slow right now. At least I can take your word for it!

I was not trying to imply that one must believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit and a young earth in order to be saved, I was simply trying to clarify my exact standpoint so that I might be able to find others with the same or similar standpoints. Or even bring up conversation about them, like now. I don't think that the Church, as in the body of Christ, should be divided because of such an issue as how long God chose to spend creating the Earth. But, I do believe that interpreting Genesis correctly is extremely important and effects how we view the rest of the Bible. An article I came across recently by Creation Ministries International has a wealth of information on it's importance: Did God Create Over Billions of Years? I don't personally have a problem with instrumental singing, but I'm sure a capella can be powerful. I imagine your congregation are rather good singers?

I'd heard the name before, but I don't really know much about them. That's pretty cool, actually. EDIT: I just looked you guys up on a website that came up on google. I definitely like the idea behind it. I agree. At the end of the day, if it comes from God, it's good. Otherwise, it's evil. ANOTHER EDIT: I mean, specifically talking about supernatural powers.

Yes! Yes! Yes! I was really hoping that there would be a few other people on here who were Christians. And look, a thread specifically asking about it! It's very nice to see a whole bunch of people who share similar world-views and values to oneself. Please feel free to IM me if you ever need to talk to someone about God, Christianity, and life. I might start sending out some partially-random friend requests. To summarise myself: I'm a non-denominational Christian, because almost every denomination I've come across seems to have traditional beliefs that I disagree with. I believe that Jesus Christ came to Earth in human form to testify to the Truth. That whoever believes in Him shall not perish but have eternal life. I believe that only through this belief in God's only begotten Son can one be saved. I also believe in the baptism of the Holy Spirit, and that we live on a young Earth which is roughly 6000 years old.

Thank you for the warm welcome, everypony! It's nice to see other Aussies on here! *brohoof* Yay! Being cool in Equestria is so much easier than being cool in real life! Maybe I used the wrong word... I didn't watch the whole video. I stopped at the "Princess Celestia is obviously a satanic pagan goddess" part. Argh! I really, really, really, really, really, really, really, really dislike videos like this. Is Princess Celestia used in a "satanic" way in the show? Not as far as I'm aware. One could also point out that Christmas, the biggest celebration in the year for Christians, came from a pagan celebration. Ah well, I suppose there are always going to be those people. EDIT: I don't want anyone to take what I briefly stated just then in the wrong way. So I'm doing a tl;dr. What I am trying to say, is that just because something comes from a pagan origin, does not make it evil. It depends how it is used. Christmas is used by Christians to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ, despite the origins of the celebration. Whether Princess Celestia comes from "evil" mythology or not, she is used for good in the show. Paganism does not decide what is evil, God does.

Hello everypony, Nice to meet you all! I'm Flutterspark, an Australian male currently doing high school. (I'm actually basically homeschooled, but that's another story.) I enjoy computer science, computer programming, reading, roleplaying, and occasionally baking chocolate brownies. I chose the username "Flutterspark" as a mix of Fluttershy and Twilight Sparkle. I feel that they are the main characters that I best identify with. Twilight for her love of learning, occasional need to be in control of the current situation, and her attention to detail. Fluttershy for her kind heart and her shyness. So, how'd I get in to My Little Pony? If you're reading this, I'm guessing you already have a pretty good idea. When I heard that MLP had gotten so much attention from people who were way outside it's target audience, I grew very curious. I developed a great respect for those people who could humble themselves and watch a show aimed at little girls, in spite of all those nay-sayers. A show that someone could love simply for it's innocence and character! I still didn't go so far as to watch the show myself. About a couple of years after I first heard about it, an acquaintance (who was also a brony) encouraged me to watch "just one episode!" I remember him telling me that "even without the ponies" it was just a really good story. One night, I finally decided to take the plunge. I started watching Episode 1, Season 1. I had initially suspected that I would like it, but by the end of that episode, I was hooked. The storyline was well thought out, the characters seemed deep, and the jokes were genuinely funny! Plus, they couldn't just finish the first episode with Nightmare Moon about to take over Equestria like that! The other thing that drew me into the show was it's good moral values. I'm a Christian, and I am usually impressed with media that has a value set which is close to the value set we get from the Bible. My Little Pony isn't perfect according to those standards, but it's a far, far step above pretty much every other television show I have ever come across. So, here I am, having just finished watching season 2, posting in the "welcome" section of a forum devoted to My Little Pony. I don't think I would have imagined myself doing this a year ago. If you have any questions about me, please feel more than welcome to ask. (Who doesn't enjoy talking about themselves? ) Thanks for reading, Flutterspark