BalanceBrony

Okay, so back when the first teaser was released, y'all might have seen me skitzing out a bit on a couple of threads. Many people said "wait and see before making a judgement call." Well, now I've seen the new teaser- and this is literally the absolute worst way they could have handled Princess Flurr Fart. Or now as I'd like to call her, Princess Plot Device. Her special talents include being OP, and serving as a Deus Ex Machina, MacGuffin, or other literary device. Back at the first teaser, I was telling people that babies are inherently problematic in storytelling. And I have had long discussions on how this could be dealt with as best as possible. There were some paths that could have been taken that wouldn't have been as bad. But they went the path of the OP baby with uncontrollable powers. And this is bad, bad, badddd. Princess Fartface is OP. She has more power than all of the other Princesses combined it seems. Which is terrible. That teaser singlehandedly made it clear that she is just going to be a walking plot device, to serve whatever purpose is needed, including being the driver of the conflict. To everybody who was "hyped" what are your thoughts now that we're going to have a Fairly OddBaby-tier plot, all about this "special" baby who is OP and causes all kinds of silly accidents because she was born with great power. Are you excited now that it's clear what path the writers are taking? Do you see any way they can clear up this godawful premise? Do you actually like the idea of an OP baby who just does whatever the story needs her to do? My concerns were justified. The only thing that could make the show passable now is if Princess Plot Device doesn't do anything outside of the opener. Or if they completely get rid of her powers for good. Ways that it could be made even worse is if she becomes a Deus Ex Machina. Here's the godawful promo for anyone who hasn't seen the atrocity at work. UPDATE:

My fears have been confirmed. We have OP baby incoming. I'll watch the opener, but I am very concerned.

We're in trouble Guys. The writers pulled a Poof. RIP MLPFIM. Princess McFlurry Fart of MacGuffin is here to stay.

Nononononononononononononononono I just saw the hoofdarned preview. they literally did this in the absolute WORST possible of ways. The uncontrollable magic, OP baby Alicorn. Making a darn OP Alicorn baby was the WORST option. Congrats everypony, introducing Princess Plot Device. Her special talents are MacGuffin and Deus Ex Machina. Now give us all of your money!

True. And I never denied that Twilight is "special". But she is the protagonist. The story follows her. etc. Adding another inherently special pony is blegh. Because Twilight is a "chosen one" archetype, that's why Flurry Heart can't be either of these.

1) True, but it drained them of their power. Celestia and Luna did not get sapped in doing it. Also, they are connected to the Tree of Harmony, so there's more towards their significane than just their alicorn-ness. 2) You mention it at a later point- but typical baby antics are also an undesirable thing. As for time skipping to Fillihood- I couldn't give half a darn, because it stands that a being that is born powerful and significant is boring. If she is important enough to change the status quo, even at a later date, then I'm not going to be too happy. If there's going to be another damn Alicorn, i don't want it to change the show much. That's literally the best that cna be done. Besides, both EQG and the CMC stand as far more interesting story premises for spin-offs imho. 3) And who says royalty should work the same in MLP as the real world? All of the Princesses earned their title. And being born makes it so like "Oh, you don't need to actually do anything. Just get born lucky and you're special!" The whole notion of being born special is ugh. Especially in MLP. 4) True. But they are still inherently more powerful within the current lore. More raw power. If Alicornhood is not inherent power, then that is the best solution for this point. But if it is, ugh. 5) Boring foal-sitting is just about as bad as OP Mary Sue. maybe a bit better in this case, because maybe Cadence will finally get flaws. 6) Agree on the fact I want Alicorn lore. But there would have been much better ways then a stupid baby. I'm on board if the twerp gets as little attention as possible. 7) See point 3 8) Yeah, but what can a baby really become? Also, royal status and alicornhood are not inherently linked. The royal status of these specific alicorns is related mostly to what they've done, more than anything else, and a bit of the alicornness. But mostly what they've done. 9) Tropes are not inherently done. But the same one should not be used too much in one story. Especially the Chosen One trope. 10) Yeah. And that is probably one of the biggest sources of outrage here. Hasbro meddling. It was going to be a dang unicorn until they stepped in. Removing all of these issues. Babies are horrible for storytelling. "Special" ones are even worse. 11) Eh. It was supposed to be Twilight succeeds the Princesses and the others are her advisers. According to the original story layout. Confirmed by several writers. I mean, Zecora has a cutie mark. Granted, she is Equine, whereas Griffons are part lion, but it's not that much of a stretch.

So, I want to try and do my best to address all of @@Buck Testa, points. First off, the books are considered canon by many now more than ever, because all of the writers of the books have now written for the show, and the books are officially licensed. Stories made by people who work for the show count as canon. That said, here goes the main arguments. 1) The show makes it very clear that Alicorns are supposed to be special. It's complete and utter break of continuity if too many Alicorns join the cast. If everyone is special, nobody is. 2) There are indeed two kinds of Alicorns, born and ascended. That's why I stopped complaining about that aspect. But, it is worth noting that most of the Alicorn tribe vanished (source: Book of Two Sisters, written by show staff). 3) However, the show makes it clear that the Two Sisters, Twilight, and Cadence are special even among Alicorns. The first 3 are connected to the Tree of Harmony, and Cadence to the Crystal Heart. Those 4 are special even among Alicorns. So, Flurry Heart should not be on their level. And giving her some grand destiny is a major risk to telling a good story. More on that later. 4) Born Alicorns are a thing, but the fact that she is a special Princess without earning the title puts her in a different status from the other 4 Princesses. Celestia and Luna had to prove themselves to the population of Equestria, even though they were elected into power by a council solely because of their Alicornness. The population was not completely in support, so they had to prove their right to rule over all ponies by uniting Equestria. Cadence saved the villlage by fixing the Crystal Heart Spell. Twilight mastered the Magic of Friendship. All of them did things before earning the full title of Princess of Equestria. 5) The earned title of the 4 Princesses was a major part of the show's intended feministic message. That females can earn powerful positions with hard work and determination. Strong females. Flurry Fart was born a Princess, which cheapens that message. 6) There are several issues related not only to her Alicorn and Princess status, but here status as a "special" baby. "Special" babies are notorious for being walking plot devices. If they don't give her any significant power, then this will be headed off. But if she is "special" and powerful, the risk for bad writing skyrockets. 7) If I were to use the example of Poof from Fairly OddParents, Poof was a MacGuffin and Deus Ex Machina at the same time. He was a walking plot device, existing only to serve as both conflicts and solutions. Given the general difficulty of writing a baby (since how deep and interesting can the character of a baby be?) it is all too easy for them to become a mechanic, rather than a character. 8) Further, if they do something stupid like a "Chosen One" type of story- not only has that been done already in this show- but it is an overused trope. And it's all the worse if you have a baby be the "special" character. Because a baby, lacking in reason or autonomy, can only be shallow. And if they make the baby smart, and/or powerful, it changes them into a character, sure. But that kind of OPness and Precociousness makes them a borderline Mary Sue/Gary Stu on TOP of being a walking plot device. 9) Babies are one of the worst characters to add to a show, and are notoriously easy to mess up. If she isn't special or powerful, then fair enough. Flurry Heart would then be in the same class as Cadence and Shining- just kind of there. But if she is made special and/or powerful, it would be horrible. 10) Regardless of whether she is special or not, the chances of her being anything other than a stupid plot device is very low. In all likelihood, she'll be more of an object than a character. 11) Underneath it all, it can't be forgotten that a historically bad character type was forced into the show by a toy company that cares about profits way more than writing a cohesive story. No sane writer would add one of the worst archetypes to a show if they weren't forced to. Babies are an inherently easy character to mess up, because their inferior capacities make them an object, and not a character. And adding higher capacities makes them OP and boring instead of a walking plot device. There are two extreme sides of adding a baby to a show, and very little middle ground So, there are all the reasons it can go wrong, or is perceived as a major threat to the quality of the show. That said, let me preemptively state some solid counterarguments. It could be said that the writers are very capable, and indeed they are. They have taken plenty of lemons from Hasbro and made them something cool or interesting. However, it is verrry hard to fix babies. It could be said that the books are only semi-canon, and I want to say no to this. I don't think something officially sanctioned, and officially written by the writers is anything other than canon. It could be said that Flurry Fart being a walking plot device is no different from Cadence or Shining, and a couple of other characters, and to be fair, that's right. However, that doesn't mean it is excusable to add ANOTHER boring MacGuffin/Deus Ex Machina, who, if done wrong, might ALSO be a Mary Sue. It could be said that maybe MLP isn't intended to be feministic anymore, and that it has deviated from the original path, but I disagree. Because, even as recently as Season 5, we saw plenty of cases where the strength of the main cast as self-made, independent females, was made very clear. And even if that is not the direct intention anymore, having even one character that breaks the mold of strong females is definitely a disconnect from some of the feel of the show, which features many strong female characters that do things to show their strength, ability, and they earn their achievements. Making being born an achievement is a disconnect. It's obvious to say that I am jumping to conclusions about her being "special" and that I should wait until the episode actually comes out. But, don't forget that Alicorns are by definition "special" in the world of MLP. So, that's very much a given conclusion. The odds of her being normal are outweighed by the chance she'll be a special snowflake. You said in one of your posts that this is a good step towards "Killing the notion that alicorns are supposed to be special." But the thing is, killing that notion is completely retconning the canon. Even if the books were not canon, the show itself makes it very clear that Alicorn = Special. "Killing" that notion means the writers would be giving a direct middle finger to the story. So no, "Killing" this idea is objectively a break in continuity. Nobody will deny that the show itself is canon. Believe me, I would love if she is just a normal pony. That would stop her from being a Mary Sue, at least. That would actually make an interesting notion that the 4 Princesses > normal alicorns > normal ponies. Which is an interesting power dynamic. It would also make for some Alicorn lore, and more specialness to the main 4 Princesses. And also that Alicorns aren't inherently powerful. Which is definitely one of the better ways they can handle this. But will the writers make her normal? Time will tell. It would still be a contradiction to the existing story, but it would be better than having an OP special snowflake baby. Tangentially related, but not really- Mane 6 as Alicorns would be cruddy for different reasons. It would make it a bit more boring if they all had the same abilities. Putting them in the middle ground or normal alicorns > normal ponies would be a disservice to their importance, but making them all on the same level as the 4 Princesses would be boring. Also, that would make Alicornness TOO normal. I like the idea of "normal" Alicorns, but seeing a bunch of them, and seeing everybody attain that just gets rid of diversity, and makes things flat. There should be such a thing as "special". Because if nobody is above the rest, then it becomes washed out. At first that may seem contradictory, but the short way of saying it is this. There should be "special" characters. But that specialness should be earned, not given. Also, if too many people are special, nobody will be, hence having an entire cast of "special" characters (ascended alicorns) would cheapen the value of that gain. It can be said that MLP was created to sell toys, but it should be subtle, and it isn't good if the story we love is harmed by MLPs status as a toy commercial. The writers chose to make a good show, and when Hasbro makes an executive decision in affront to the canon, it is infuriating. Just a reminder that they only care about their bottom line, breaking through the 4th wall without a care. When stuff like this happens, it snaps the viewer back to reality, saying "That doesn't fit! HASBROOOOO!" That's what I can think of in terms of direct responses to my points Now, how can the baby be done as well as possible? (in order of preference) 1) The Changeling theory is fascinating and would actually be amazing. But I doubt it 2) She is disabled/deformed and she can't fly or use magic or something like that. This gives her flaws. If her power is negated in this way, it's an interesting way to use her. The only exception is I don't want a darn dumbo story where the only thing she has to worry about is bullies. Bullying has been done very well in this show already. Don't need to cover it anymore. 3) She is some kind of omen. Not my favorite choice, but if it's something where she is barely featured, then I don't mind much. 4) She is just a normal pony. Nothing special about her, and she's just there. This makes her no better or worse than Cadence and Shining in their first appearances. 5) Don't feature her like, at all, outside of these two episodes Stories I DON'T want. 1) Chosen One BS 2) As powerful as the Princesses 3) Poof-format stories where she goofs stuff up only for everyone else to clean it up 4) Kidnapping. Unless it is related to the changeling story possibility mentioned above. 5) The only conflict is dealing with a "special" baby that is harder to take care of than normal babies 6) Dumbo/bullying type of story Anyways, that is a big read, I know, but please do. Also, I should point out that her eyes being bigger is just the new Foal model. If you remember the Pinkie Pie episode, AJ had this eye style in her baby picture as well.

IIRC, not everybody accepted them. Solid chunks of the population either followed their own rulers, or wanted nothing to do with the sisters. So they had to prove themselves to rule ALL of Equestria. To prove they had that role to everypony.

But the issue I have is that the other 4 Princesses did things before they were ever considered a Princess, and this was because there was always a spirit of female self-empowerment in this show. Being a born Princess brings up archaic ideals of being born great, rather than making your own greatness. This is my fear. Powerful babies historically only become a moving plot device. There isn't much characterization you can do, so they just kind of drift through the plot doing what the plot needs them to. They're a Mary Sue, MacGuffin, and Deus Ex Machina all in one (I'm looking at YOU Poof). Glad to see somebody else was thinking the same thing. And the writers were forced to include this fruitcake.

The books became all the more canon when GM Barrow joined the show as a writer. And the Book of Two Sisters- where we are getting a lot of this Alicorn lore- was written by a couple of show writers. So yeah, they're pretty canon. Regarding everyone's accusation that Flurry Fart is a Mary Sue- how many character flaws can a baby have. Powerful babies are inherently Mary Sue-ish. In past implementations of magical and powerful babies, they pretty much always become MacGuffins, Deus Ex Machinas, and Mary Sues all in one. A lot can go wrong with powerful babies and it's hard for anything to go right. True, the writers of the show are good, and made lemonade several times out of Hasbro's lemons. But this one is an even harder thing to deal with. The easiest way they can save it is by doing exactly what you say- making her weak, or defective in some way. Other options include simply not giving her much screen time, making her evil or something. My favorite possibility is that in-universe, all of the ponies act like born Alicorns shouldn't happen. Anyways, that's my response to some of your points. The books are a valid source because they are officially licensed, and written by the show writers. And the Mary Sueness accusation comes from historical evidence of how badly "special" babies can go for shows. They can fix it, but the potential for a bland, but OP character is very strong, considering that characterizing a freaking baby is a hard thing to do. EDIT: One more thing. The fact that Hasbro makes the rules ultimately is another reason why people are annoyed. Yeah, MLP is ultimately a commercial but simply put, people don't like when Hasbro makes story decisions. Because they're toy makers, working from a sales perspective, versus the writers who want to tell a cohesive story. Obviously they interact a lot, and I'm sure Hasbro asks the writers what they are doing story-wise. But when they go above the writers' heads and do something that the writers don't necessarily want to do, it just annoys people who watch for story, like myself. There are born Alicorns, but the extant Alicorn lore implies that born Alicorns are far away, and in the past. The writers probably would not have done this if Hasbro didn't make them. I mean, we were led to believe that Fluffernutter was going to be a Unicorn, until Hasbro said NO.

Even the darn show admits this is an abomination. I sincerely hope that they do something where the baby is actually a bad thing. She is disproportionate, which makes me hopeful that she is defective in some way. Also, the sisters don't look happy about it, so that too. Ever since I learned that born Alicorns exist, I calmed down a bit, but I am still very concerned about her potentially being a Mary Sue. Also, it's worth noting that even though born Alicorns exist, being an Alicorn does not mean inherently royal or powerful. The 4 Princesses are special, even among Alicorns, and every single one of them had to do great things and prove themselves before earning the title of Princess. Born royalty is inherently against one of MLPs underlying themes about strong, self-made females doing great things.

Partially. MLP is getting to be pretty old for a cartoon after all. However, you can't act like Hasbro is the minority of the problem, and it's mostly the writers, or even that it's half and half. This is 100% obviously a case of Hasbro saying, "We want a pretty Alicorn Princess to be Cadence and Shining's daughter... MAKE AN EPISODE..." There are cases where Hasbro speaks from on high saying the writers HAVE to incorporate a concept or plot point. This is one of them, so was Twilicorn, Twilight's new castle, and so was Canterlot Wedding. It's not even necessarily running out of ideas insomuch as Hasbro doesn't care what ideas can reasonably be brought into the show or not.

If they do any kind of repeat plot with this dumb Princess, I'm officially declaring Seasonal Rot. Until the opener, I'm holding my horses, and checking my doubts. But if I see any kind of rehashing, or Mary Sueness, or overdone trope, it's official that this show is starting to go. The clip gives me hope that the writers are planning on doing something fresh- with how concerned Tia and Luna are. God willing, there is a catch to this clip that we haven't seen yet.

NONONONONONONONONONONO! No darn "Princess of Harmony". The whole point is that Friendship IS Harmony. The Elements of Harmony are comprised of the qualities needed to sustain friendship. Since the Elements represent Friendship, then Friendship IS Harmony. And by the Tree of Harmony's will? Do you see her Cutie Mark on it? As far as the tree is concerned, the required players to maintain Harmony are already in action. Further, this is exactly the kind of Chosen One plot that the show doesn't need. Adding a Chosen One plot into a show this late never goes well. Something as important as a Chosen One needs to be done from the start, and even then it's such an overdone trope. The show needs to stay fresh, and new. If she is some kind of almighty saviour, that is literally the worst way to incorporate her into the show. And anyways, there are plenty of Alicorns who don't mean anything. I highly highly doubt that Tia and Luna's entire tribe was composed of important world changers. The point of that statement was to highlight that Alicorns are perfect for Neutrality, and nothing more. I am not fanatical enough that the Alicornness alone will drive me away. But if they take a plot that's done a buhmillion and one times, I'm going to have major issues. No more Chosen Ones. No more all-powerful characters that are literally ALL of the magic powers at once. This is what we call an inherently horrid trope. Borderline Mary Sue-ness.

Nah, the hasbro offices mang.

I had a major problem with it until I just read the Journal of the Two Sisters- which states that Celestia and Luna are from a group of Alicorns. But those two were unique, even though other Alicorns existed. They were destined to have a connection with the Tree of Harmony, which puts them above other Alicorns, along with Twilight and Cadence. That said, born Alicorn exist, and have existed. However, her wings, horn, and eyes are abnormally large- and I think something might be wrong. Celestia and Luna also look concerned. My hope is that either A) something is wrong with her or she is not anything special. Just a normal alicorn with no significance. Preferably the first one.

As an update to my stance on this- there is in fact a whole Tribe of natural Alicorns. That said, an Alicorn does not need to be royalty. Also royalty does not need to be an Alicorn. Th Princesses of Equestria (except for theis freak) had special destinies, and a special connection through the tree of Harmony. Further, their connection to the Tree of Harmony puts them in a class all of their own. After learning this, I can say that there are two main kinds of Alicorns- born and ascended. Being ascended requires doing things far beyond the capabilities of other ponies. Born Alicorns are more powerful than normal ponies, but Twi, Tia, Cadence, Luna (henceforth will be known as the Harmonious Alicorns) have a special connection to the Tree of Harmony, which makes them even more powerful than normal Alicorns. All of that said, and knowing born Alicorns DO exist in canon, then my opinion has shifted. I will be okay with Princess Fluffernutter if they make her separate from the Harmonious Alicorns. She is just an Alicorn, and isn't special in any particular way. Or, maybe something is wrong with her. That's okay by me too. Two things I absolutely do NOT want to see is 1) a Dumbo plot or 2) some Chosen One nonsense. I want there to be a catch, or I want her to be just a normal Alicorn, and not included in the special class that the other 4 are in.

Being a Princess of Equestria should be earned, not given. She needs to do great things before she deserves Alicorn status, let alone Royal status. The Book of the Two Sisters mentioned a tribe of born Alicorns, so I guess I'm a bit over the Alicorn part. But she should be in a lower class of Alicorns. She is not on the same level as Tia, Luna, Twi, and Cadence - or shouldn't be. All of them worked hard to earn the title of Princess of Equestria. Also, she should just be a normal pony who happens to be an Alicorn. Nothing special about her- or even better, something is wrong with her. Because adding a new super powerful character with an important role is horrid.

This fact is my only hope. The only way I'll be able to sit well with this is if the show itself treats the issue with concern, or fear. Because everything, including the writers themselves, implied that Tia and Luna are the only born Alicorns. Cheapening the significance of being an Alicorn is something that really ticks me off. That said, I really hope that Tia and Luna are concerned (the clip implies this). If the show itself treats the issue as if Alicorns being born is an unnatural occurrence, then it's alright. Because being an Alicorn has always been depicted as something that needs to be earned, and a status that means a role that is necessary for Equestria. Having a character just being born with that kind of importance just cheapens it, in addition to taking a dump on the lore. Everyone is thinking of dumbo with her misproportionate eyes, horn, and wings, and how cute it is. But nobody has really noted the possibility that something might be gravely wrong here. Something is wrong with that baby, and if Tia and Luna's look is anything to go by, something is amiss. An Alicorn baby can be forgiven if the show itself treats it as what it is- an abomination, unnatural. But if she's just a normal Alicorn, it cheapens the Alicorn status, and just adds another super-powerful, super-important pony because money. And to everyone saying "Dumbo??" I really hope it's otherwise. Bullying and insecurity have been done in this show. That plot has been done in this show. More than once. It's even worse if they do a dumbo type thing. In short, they can potentially fix the garbage Hasbro threw at them. But only if they do some plot that involves her birth being an anomaly or unnatural. Or an omen. i would accept the idea that she's an omen too (unless they make her "the Chosen One". A "Chosen One" plot is pretty much going to kill the show to me.)

Particularly if a toy company forces them to. And no. No possibilities that I agree with. What, she's a normal alicorn with no catch? Or they give some grand destiny to a new character when there is still a lot to be done with the ones we know and love? They make her like Korra where she has to use great power responsibly? If she is a legitimate, normal Alicorn, the story possibilities are garbage. I just thought of one thing that's okay I guess, and that's Alicorn lore. But it is stupid to destroy Alicorn lore in order to make new Alicorn lore, and ruins continuity. If you want to make Alicorn lore, keep the lore we have and then add new stuff. But the point is, having "special" children be born is done a lot of times, and most of times that special children were born, the show started tanking to try and accomodate the suddent introduction of a new vastly important baby.

You can't be sure about that. Why would they be frowning at a new baby? I highly doubt the Princesses are shallow to the point of being upset at appearances alone.

They ARE worried. If you look at Celestia and Luna in the clip.

Because there is obviously a problem here maybe? Because they have other duties, or because going to the CE from Canterlot simply wasn't workable on the given daY? Any number of reasons. But, even the writers have said that no Alicorns are born, except Tia and Luna. I really hope that something is really, really, wrong and it isn't a stupid Dumbo plot.

Fixed that for you. I'd hold that off for the opener. She might not even be an Alicorn. There could very well be a catch.