Cloud Strife

I'm not fully finished with the episode yet but this was already a problem that stuck out to me and I only just started it. Bejeezus. But this isn't a simple "forgetting a reminder". Rainbow went through a full calling out of Gilda and all that and it was universally established it was bad to make Fluttershy cry - a point that Dash didn't contend with. This is especially insulting when it's coming after Hurricane Fluttershy, in which Rainbow was extremely caring and considerate toward Fluttershy. This isn't Rainbow. It's them trying to retread an old plot and say "see, we can do it better!" while bastardizing their existing character in order to make it happen. The CMC would have been much better candidates for this lesson.

Most people who are complaining about Zephyr have acknowledged that they think Fluttershy's character was strong in this episode. It's not a problem with any of them. Just because someone likes one aspect of an episode, doesn't mean they can't complain about other aspects, especially if those other aspects make the episode unenjoyable and thus difficult to take in the positives that it presents. This is the nature of constructive criticism; just because you liked this one part of the episode enough to not care about the possible bad parts, doesn't mean others are supposed to enjoy it with you. Also, you're right, Zephyr was clearly written to not be likable. But why was he written like that, especially when we're supposed to sympathize with him in the end? It's a very deceptive way to pull off a "he's not all that he seems" kind of plot, a way of tricking the audience. There's a way to make his problems relatable and to even give him some realistic flaws while still making him sympathetic. I get that he's supposed to be a realistic depiction of this kind of personality type, but the issue is that television is here to entertain first before it's meant to reflect real people. Certainly, realism in character depiction is a good thing, but not to the extent that it makes your audience angry or bored. Lastly, Fluttershy has had other episodes in which she has been assertive, though in some of them she didn't have as much stage presence. "It Ain't So Easy Being Breezies" is one example, and "Testing, Testing, 1, 2, 3" had her ending a fight between Twilight and Rainbow before it could escalate any further. There are other examples; these are just the two I can name off the top of my head. I present to you a question: why is it "idiotic" for someone to be upset with something within an episode just because some other thing went well? Hurricane Fluttershy isn't a point of comparison here, because Hurricane Fluttershy is widely regarded as a great episode. Let's say, hmm... You dislike Filli Vanilli. Would you think it would be reasonable for someone to say that your upset at how Fluttershy is possibly learning the same lesson again is "stupid" because the songs in the episode are good, or maybe because her friends were well written? After all, Zephyr is the point of this particular episode, and Fluttershy was the point in Filli Vanilli. This is simply hypothetical; I don't know how you feel about that episode. The point I'm trying to stress here is that if you're going to make that argument, I would hope that you back it up in relevance to every episode, not just this one, and stay consistent with your own logic. You don't have to respond to this, it's merely food for thought, of course. As for me, this was an episode that I enjoyed for Rainbow and Fluttershy's depictions, but the more I think about how Zephyr treated Rainbow, the more...uncomfortable I feel. She was giving off some pretty clear signals that she wasn't interested in him, but he kept on going and going with that slimy behavior and he was never called out for it, not to mention it's played simply for humor's sake. I don't blame people for finding it funny, but I do think the writers were bordering on dangerous territory with it, especially since characters like Rainbow often have their behavior misconstrued as actually liking the other character secretly, which is a problem that should be addressed. Rainbow was not "playing hard to get"; she was legitimately put off by him and wanted him to stop hitting on her.

I don't know, given that everyone's gotten tired of Boastful Rainbow episodes, I doubt they're going to have a retread of the same lesson. She might low-key feel good about it (and perhaps bring it up in the occasional conversation), but it doesn't seem like she'd boast about it like she used to in the previous seasons. Besides, Rainbow is the kind of pony who does actually recognize other ponies' accomplishments and values all of her friends equally. (see: this hot minute) She may be the kind of pony to see herself as the best at what she does, but she thinks her friends are the best at what they do.

I don't see why they should if she's genuinely changed for the better. They can choose not to forgive her if they want to, you have a point on that, but if they want to forgive her then I can see why. I never said what she did was excusable. It's forgivable. As long as she becomes a better pony from it, in my opinion, there is no need to hold her to that standard. As far as I've seen, she's learned from it; she genuinely apologized and halted her plot, and if I was in that position, that would be enough for me. Maybe it wouldn't be for you. Maybe you could never forgive someone like that. That's okay. You are allowed not to, because if someone wrongs you like that it is only your judgment of whether or not they deserve forgiveness that matters. Not anyone else's. But the Mane Six themselves think she is deserving of it and since they're the ones she's wronged, then they're the ones whose judgment I will back up. Who is worthy of forgiveness and who isn't differs from person to person. Everyone has their own individual limits. Starlight Glimmer, to the Mane Six, has not crossed them. EDIT: I'm sorry if this post is bad in any way or harsh or something by the way. I'm not really feeling particularly well for reasons that are unrelated to this discussion.

I haven't read the rest of this thread so I haven't seen if you've earned any responses. Bear with me. She didn't consider that it was wrong because her point of view was that the reason their relationship dismantled was because of the Cutie Mark. As a result, her world view was tainted, that Cutie Marks, special talents, separated ponies too much, and that if she got rid of them then everypony would be happy - but of course, this turns out incorrect as the ponies practically had no meaning to their lives without the talents to guide them. Despite this, she still didn't learn anything from the experience when they all rebelled against her, thinking that it was Twilight's fault and not actually because she did anything terrible in the first place, so she decided that she would take Twilight down in revenge for what she did to ruin her plan at happiness. It's only when she sees the consequences of her actions that she starts to realize that she isn't handling this the right way, but she stubbornly holds onto that belief for a little while afterward regardless because it's the only thing she has, the only solution she knows to make everything happy again (and this is why I said this redemption is better than the other ones; it's rushed, but it's more gradual and you have a good reason as to why she's open to changing her mind). Eventually she really has to come to terms with the fact that her mentality is doing more harm than good, and that maybe she is partially to blame for how tumultuous her fillyhood was. After all, she didn't approach anyone else back then. As far as everything else goes, I can understand why your personal experience might've tainted how the episode looks to you. It doesn't feel fair that Starlight Glimmer gets another chance, and that she could even have her mistakes reversed, when people like you aren't able to get that for yourself. Unfortunately, the world doesn't have someone like Twilight Sparkle in power, someone who's willing to forgive and show others the right way, and it certainly suffers for it. I wouldn't blame the episode itself for that, of course. I wouldn't even blame Starlight Glimmer. To be fair, she can relate to you, actually, because she was never approached by anyone before Twilight, and even then, Twilight wasn't too concerned why she was doing it for a while, but rather just intent on stopping her. Maybe it's because we're all so quick to rely on the Us vs. Them mentality, to other people who we don't understand instead of attempting to. A lot of us just don't reach out, those who are in need as well as those who aren't but are in the position to help someone who is. We judge an entire person and their history based on first impressions, and it's unfair because every person is multifaceted. Every person has a reason behind their actions, and every person deserves a chance. If you're going to take away anything from my post, let it be this: you're not alone, and you're not the only person to feel this way. And maybe if it's such a persistent feeling that you should find someone to talk to about it. I don't think a random person on the internet is going to be of much help, either; i think a professional would be better in order. I mean, most of this site consists of lost teenagers who have no idea what they're doing with their lives, and come to My Little Pony for comfort. Not all of them, but a very large portion. A professional would better be able to help you through that. Except Discord and Starlight aren't even remotely similar in terms of ambition. Discord is an attention seeker, the type to try to worm his way in and cause a bit of chaos - he's practically a spirit of chaos. Of course he had to take a while to gain anyone's trust because he stayed a manipulative little shit. He didn't become the way he was through any sort of trauma; he just was an asshole, and then learned through gaining a friend that being a jerk doesn't always get him what he wants. Really, that's it. Starlight, however, is not like that. She did what she did because hurt made her view the world with certain colored glasses. She saw her own pain and suffering, and then she applied it to other ponies. She is not a naturally evil character like you're trying to paint her; in fact, she's a well intentioned extremist. She wanted to take Cutie Marks away because it hurt her, and thus she assumed it hurt other ponies, and she couldn't really realize that that's not the reason that her friendship dissolved until after she saw the consequences of removing everyone's Cutie Marks directly. I detailed a bit more why she held onto that belief despite the sight she took in, so you can go back earlier in my post if you want to see it. It makes sense that she joins their circle because she's not a manipulative jerk by nature, like Discord was. She's a pony who's been hurt, and was trying to change the world around her so she, and others, don't have to experience that hurt again. In that light, all of her anger and maliciousness is painted as righteous maliciousness and anger, rather than actual evil scheming. She was determined to accomplish her goals, and got more upset and angry the more that Twilight attempted to take them away from her.

That was a rather gripping finale, in my opinion, and definitely among the better ones. All I can say is that if I disliked anything it was that Starlight Glimmer's redemption was rushed as they focused too much on the spectacle, but even then it was handled better than some other redemptions. They are definitely getting better at this.

When did AJ make the claim that she hated that kind of music? She said it was weird, and that she changed, and that it definitely didn't seem to fit her, but never did she make the claim she hated it, as far as I remember. Really? Of course she's capable of more than one style, but she's definitely behaving as though she was not in complete liberty of what she wanted to; after all, she herself admitted it within her song. That's the point of the song. He attributed himself to the music. She attributed him to the music (when he's no longer working with her). And yes, he does actually outright state they were his ideas, as he said that he made her into Countess, not the other way around. There's a lot more evidence for the fact that he made her image rather than she doing it herself. She was judgmental of the songs, I admit to that, and she could have had more tact, but she really started actually confronting her about her manager only after she found out her manager was using her. Applejack isn't perfect. Maybe you would have been happier if there was something to address that her disposition had been misguided, but to be fair, other ponies called her out for this behavior and since it wasn't the point of the episode I think that's enough. Also, you don't need to be so condescending in your reply. We're having a debate here, not you trying to prove I'm an idiot. I'm sorry I made a mistake and missed that it wasn't you who said that but someone else. Please stop using phrases like "anyone with a pulse", or "reading comprehension is important". A simple "I didn't say that" would've made the same point without the undertone that you think I'm a moron.

1. It was definitely not completely baseless. Number 2 will describe that in more detail. 2. Firstly: a - When did it reveal that she wrote the song? I rewatched the scene with her talking to AJ about her manager and she mentions nothing of the sort. b - The problem isn't that she likes that clothing or the flashing lights, the problem is that her manager clearly doesn't give a shit about what she likes or wants and is doing it for his own sake. If she likes those lights and colors then that's completely fine, but as it stands she's not the one who made that image of herself, as her manager asserts at least three times during the episode. It's very obvious that he made those decisions himself, whether she liked them or not. She did say that she was okay with it, but it's pretty heavily implied the reason she's doing that is because she's grateful for the hard work he put into making her a big name - the hard work she realizes was not in interest of her, but for himself. There is absolutely nothing to suggest that she herself wanted this image and the whole episode practically hammers it in that it was his idea. Besides, it's clear at the end of the episode that AJ was right that it wasn't really her actual style, because by the end of it she doesn't use it, which dismantles your entire argument. You can play "what ifs" all you want, but the episode itself confirms several times over that she'd rather do it a different way, but went with what her manager said because she thought he was doing her a favor. 3 - It's not a moot point. You (or someone else in this thread idk) brought up the idea that AJ apparently "destroyed" her career. Dark Qiviut said, in a direct counterargument to that, that that's not important. That there's no point in her having a career if she's being used, abused, and will dislike what she's doing in the future. She doesn't deserve that. She deserves her integrity, to feel like she's worth something, rather than her brand name. You note how he compliments his own work constantly? You note how when she's finally about to go on stage without his help, she feels she's absolutely nothing? That he practically made her a good singer, even though she already was one before he got his hooves on her? That's what the episode is putting on display here. That is a dysfunctional relationship between a director and their singer. Tearing down her self esteem, whittling away at it to the point she feels she's nothing without him, so of course she goes along with his ideas because he knows better than she does, and she becomes complacent. For her to have become a big name stuff like this has to have gone on for years. For years she's been going along with what somepony else tells her, and the only demand she makes is that she continues charity work (something AJ knows she loves), and even that he resents her for and is waiting for the day she'll cave to give even that up for his own sake. He's a greedy, money-mongering corporate who wants to use an artist for his own gain. If all the flashing lights were her idea and he was just the tech support, then all of your arguments would be valid. But they weren't, and they aren't. The song at the end, which is incredible, beautiful, and brought a tear to my eye, is more than enough proof of that. Besides, I'd argue that her career is not destroyed as there is no displeased pony anywhere within her audience.

This episode, for me, was probably one of the least noteworthy this season. It was decent, I suppose, nothing specific I could say wrong with it besides nitpicks that most people within the demographic of this show wouldn't care about, but it's just nothing really special, either. There are some people who feel strongly about this episode and they're entitled to that, but I simply don't. It barely gathered a reaction out of me. Fluttershy was adorable as always, though, so that's a plus. EDIT: I did say I don't feel strongly about the episode so there's nothing for me to remark there, but when I'm reading earlier the vitriol toward Twilight's attitude... Geez, she just can't catch a break, can she? She's criticized for knowing everything and being too perfect, and now she's being criticized for not knowing what to do and acting like she does, and getting upset when she doesn't. Do keep in mind this is Twilight Sparkle we're talking about, here. Of course she'd be consumed with how much she can contribute because she was going through an existential crisis at the end of season 4 on what being a princess means. It's clear she wants to go about doing her duties, and she wants to do them as quickly as possible. She's getting a reminder of who helped her to become a princess in the first place. It's a pretty relateable message, I think; a lot of people in high positions tend to forget the people who helped them along the way. I also didn't get the impression she was trying to boast, just trying to help. People like helping and sometimes can get consumed in that. This is more than I wanted to say for the episode. You may feel free to give me a counter but I don't know if I'll be invested enough to give a response.

It's interesting when the two of us disagree. Pretty rare sight indeed (heck you even agreed with me when it came to Tanks for the Memories). Allow me to offer you a rebuttal: The jokes' intentions were to be annoying and boring because you're supposed to place yourself within Twilight's shoes. Discord was not meant to entertain the audience; he was meant to make Twilight look more sympathetic. Try not to use the brush color of "other Discord episodes" color what you think his role should be in the episode. (To be fair, I do agree with you with the last joke. It wasn't really that funny, although I do love me my share of puns...) To be fair, they did try to explain the joke. In fact, they worked to completely recreate it with her - but she was not grasping the idea that no matter how much they tried to explain it, it was one of those you had to be there kind of jokes. Heck, when Twilight asked none of them refused to try to explain it. It's just that it was difficult to, and even when Twilight watched the joke for herself she wasn't able to understand it. As for knowing how she feels, I'm not sure about that. Twilight herself repeatedly covered it up with excuses, and only Spike got it because he was the one present when Twilight started really ruminating about it; all the others saw was her saying "I need to do this for an experiment!" They probably might've had some suspicion but you don't have a tendency to bring up mere suspicions of someone else's feelings like that. All in all, it was not on them to read Twilight's mind, it was on Twilight to express it. I don't know if it ruins the credibility of the moral more than it makes me raise an eyebrow because Discord is back to being an unlikable asshole again when he of anyone should know better. It makes it more like I want to punch Discord in the face rather than entertained by him. (I do agree he was too meanspirited. It just doesn't feel right having him as an antagonist again rather than a sympathetic protagonist with a goofy side.) Really? I got the exact opposite impression. I feel that the script was trying to push her to tell the truth. If anything, it was punishing her for avoiding her feelings, and indeed there's a good reason for that. You shouldn't avoid them; you should come out and talk about them. Heck, when she did finally admit to it, her friends were sympathetic and Twilight got her comeuppance over Discord. I don't agree that the conflict was forced. Slow? Perhaps. But the fact that I could relate to Twilight shows that situations like this do happen in real life. I think the only "forced" bit about it was Discord saying that he intentionally kept the others away from Twilight in order to make her feel left out. If that had been cut out then I think the forced bit wouldn't even exist. The script doesn't paint her as the antagonist. It paints her as the protagonist. We're following her, reading her thoughts, seeing what she does, and Discord acts against it, making him (and sort of the other of the Mane Six) the antagonists in this scenario. If you follow: pro·tag·o·nist prōˈtaɡənəst,prəˈtaɡənəst/ noun the leading character or one of the major characters in a drama, movie, novel, or other fictional text.

It's so strange to be taking the dissenting opinion for once. Despite everyone saying it wasn't a good episode, I actually found it great and I find it a little puzzling that everyone hated it. I mean, sure, I wasn't fond of the fact that Discord still had malevolent intentions even though he was supposed to be reformed; it's easy to make him a goofy guy without making him an asshole, writers. But I really liked Twilight's struggle here and it weirds me out that everyone says that she "shouldn't" have been jealous, that she "wouldn't" have been. Here's the issue: emotions do not work that way. They don't work the way of a certain personality type being unable to have them. Maybe in one situation you'd be totally fine with the inside joke, but in another it really, really bothers you. Hell, people in this thread seem to be getting a different moral from the episode than the one presented; the moral wasn't that Twilight isn't allowed to be jealous, nor that friends are allowed to have inside jokes. The moral was that you're allowed to feel a certain emotion, despite your position, and you're entitled to those feelings, and that you shouldn't bottle them up or try to justify them or run away from your emotions. You're allowed to feel jealous. And how could she not be? They kept mentioning the joke constantly around her. Maybe once, and she would've been weirded out but let it go; hell, that's exactly what happened in the case of Rainbow Dash. She was all, "Since when did they become chummy?" but shrugged it off. It was when the joke persisted and it seemed like everyone was in on it but her that she started becoming obsessed with it. It didn't make sense to her, so she started to come up with conclusions, especially when they recreated it and she still didn't get the joke. She thought that Discord had to have cast a spell on them because there was no way that they would universally find him funny, and to be honest, was that really an off-the-wall conclusion for her to draw? I bet some of you were drawing it yourselves when watching the episode. It might've been a cover up for her jealousy, but it was a reasonable idea after what Discord has done to them. After all, nearly every instance we've seen him he's been a control freak. While I knew that he hadn't brainwashed them, that's only because I'm genre savvy and I've watched this kind of plot multiple times, and kids, the target demographic of this show, wouldn't know that for themselves, and at the end of the day that's who the episode is supposed to teach. Also for everyone who's saying we should've been let in on the joke ourselves, I actually disagree. If we were, we wouldn't relate to Twilight. We'd feel guilty for laughing with everyone else, and we'd automatically be siding with them. But this isn't about their emotions or the joke, this is about Twilight and how she feels about the fact that they have an inside joke about them. If anything it'd muddy up the focus of the episode. The other characters were not the focus, Twilight was. They didn't have a lesson to learn or an experience to go through because by all means, they didn't do anything wrong. (Neither did Twilight, but she did learn a lesson in the end.) Maybe some wording was a little off but to be honest I barely noticed it. And that last rant of Twilight's hit me pretty hard, because I know how it feels to be left out. Not just on an inside joke, but in a group setting where everyone has taken a character in a RP. It feels terrible, and you don't want to say you're jealous because you want to assert yourself as a good friend who'd be beyond something petty like that (just as Twilight does in the episode!). You don't want to admit it, to yourself or to others, because you think you're beyond that. And according to this thread, apparently everyone else does, too.

If they do explore it, they certainly won't be exploring whether or not it would make her a vampire. Because she wasn't one. She was mixed with a fruit bat.

The thing that she was struggling to keep a secret wasn't the party itself, but the subject of the party. You could easily keep a surprise party for someone whose birthday is coming up, but you wouldn't have any secret to spoil aside from the surprise itself, since the recipient would know when their own birthday is. Also, secrets are different from surprises. She didn't make a Pinkie Promise to keep it, heck she makes a fine point of that in the beginning of the episode. I'm pretty sure the writer did that on purpose! Also, apparently according to you once you become a parent your life becomes No Fun Allowed. I'd hate to be a parent with that mindset, lol. I liked this episode. Wasn't one of my favorites, didn't really catch me in the feels or anything, but it was cute and got a few laughs out of me. There isn't a whole lot more to say about it, really.

Neither of these are true. Friendship is incredibly important. You need friendship throughout your entire life - mainly because you need companionship throughout your entire life. No one likes being alone, for any extended period of time (no matter what some people may claim). Humans are a social species, and we need connections. That's also not to mention the fact that not everyone cares much about romance, and not everyone wants to have a family. But everyone, and I mean everyone, wants friends. As far as intimacy goes, of course it's possible with a friend. The thing about friendship and romance is both labels are rather arbitrary, and only used to describe the type of relationship you have, not its importance, how strong it is, or what it means to you personally. For some people their definition of romance isn't someone you're incredibly close to but just someone you want to kiss. For some other people, a romantic partner isn't necessarily someone you want to kiss, but someone who's closer to you than anyone else and you trust with your life, and kissing is just an option on the table that you would feel uncomfortable doing with anyone else. You define your relationships for yourself (as well as whomever is involved in them). No one else can be the judge of what they are and what they mean to you.

I think that pairing/solo episodes work better in general than group episodes when it comes to Slice of Life format. In the case of action sequences, group episodes work well (which is why they're used in finales and openers and all that), but if you're focusing solely on character development, it's easier to make the focus as little spread as possible. The issue with having group episodes is that it ends up like Daring Don't, where the majority of the Mane Six don't have anything to do, and only Rainbow and Twilight actually contribute to the plot beyond the keep-away sequence (which could have easily been substituted with Twilight doing it by herself rather than the others doing it). As this is a Slice of Life show, then, the majority of these episodes should be focusing on 2-4 characters at a time, rather than a large group of them. The only episode that I could see an exception to this is the aptly named Slice of Life, but that's because the focus of that episode wasn't on the individual characters or their development, but on their contribution to Ponyville as a whole. Its focus is scattered because life's focus is scattered; it's done that way on purpose. Otherwise, if you want a member of the Mane Six to learn a lesson, that member should either be by themselves or with one other pony. (The same thing with teaching a lesson, too.)

I'm predicting that even though they're saying it's the end, they'll renew the IP somehow. Like, come on. They're making a lot of money through this show. Why would they give it up? The same thing happened to various other ones such as SpongeBob SquarePants.