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Black Sabbath

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Everything posted by Black Sabbath

  1. Black Sabbath

    general media Forced Diversity

    Again, writers have changed characters' personalities in the past, why can't they do so now? What it is about a characters sexuality that makes it unchangeable? Why are people fine with changing a character's motive, personality, power set and backstory but unable to handle the idea of said character suddenly being gay or straight? Again, maybe that wouldn't happen if a large part of the criticism wasn't so bigoted that wouldn't have happened. I'm not say that all criticism of diverse characters are, but denying that Marvel and DC receives that type of criticism when making diverse characters is just stupid. This is also ignoring that writers are actually multiple people. And saying thay someone shouldn't be allowed to write a character the way they want because other people have screwed up in the past is just dumb. I mean, arguing that we can't have diverse characters because writers have fucked up with it in the past is like arguing that we can't have anymore ww2 movies because Enemy at the gates is a shit film. I disagree. The writers should be allowed to take some creative liberties with characters, especially if they're writing a new version of them.
  2. Black Sabbath

    general media Forced Diversity

    Then you could have him be in the closet during his youfh and have him come out when he's 50. There, took about 2 seconds for that problem to get solved. I disagree. You could include such changes to a character without sacrificing the story, even if you're only doing it to sell comics. You could simply not make a big deal of it while still making it clear that the character in question is gay. "Oh, but they won't do that" I think we should give the writers the benefit of the doubt. Again, writers have been churning out dreck without a thought about good characters or lore or the comic's fans for as long as comics have existed. Let's not act like that when do so with a gay/black/female etc character they've gone too far.
  3. Black Sabbath

    general media Forced Diversity

    True,I'll give you that. And to think, you could turn them into black people and nothing of this would have to change. As for the Batman's relationship with catwoman and batgirl being a central part of his character, I disagree. After all, he's gone on to have many other relationships after that. At least bring up Thal al Ghul's daughter who he had a child with. And hey, if you so desperate want to include that relationships, you could always turn Catwoman into a guy. I don't think it have to be at the expense of the story. Harley Quinn's relationship with Posion Ivy for example is pretty well written. You mean a very formative part like how Batman V Superman removed Batman's stance on killing? That seems like a bit more of a drastic change to me than if they were to change his sexuality or race. I disagree. If we follow that logic, then no writer should ever bring in new things into any comic because writers have churned out dreck without a thought about good characters or lore or the comic's fans for as long as comics have existed. For example, remember that awful X-men run where they revealed that Nightcrawler belonged to a race of teleporting demons and that Angel belonged to a race of winged people with healing blood? I get what you're trying to say, but those kind of issues goes back as far as well, comics themselves. Diversity didn't create those problem, nor is automatically a part of it.
  4. Black Sabbath

    general media Forced Diversity

    It's almost like I've said that I find complaining whitewashing to be equally dumb. You know, this isn't actually a half bad point. Too bad it has nothing to do with my point. If your argument for the changes in Supermans character from the silver age to man of steel is because people change as they grow older, why don't MoS Superman show any similarities to how Superman was in those old Superboy comics during the parts of the movie he's a kid? The obvious anwser is because it's two different versions of Superman and so there's gonna be differences between them. But that begs the question why can't one of those differences be his sexuality? And here's another thing that don't change as you age, your backstory. So by your logic ever piece of media that features Lex Luther should have his main motivation to kill Superman be that Superman is the one who made Lex Luthor bald? I mean, we don't want any changes to the character, am I right? You as in you Ghostbusters fans, not you as in you personally. If you're not a fan of Ghostbusters, I apologize for assuming that you were.
  5. Black Sabbath

    general media Forced Diversity

    I agree. Hence why I found that argument a bit odd. For the same reason Frank Miller didn't make a totally new and original character when he wrote All Star Batman and Robin. For the same reason DC didn't write totally new and original characters when they wrote new-52. For the same reason Marvel didn't write a totally new and original character instead of using Thanos in the avengers. The point that I'm getting at is that these characters have changed a lot in different continuities and such. So why is sexuality the straw that breaks the camels back? Like, do you honestly think that the writers behind infinity war sat down and said "Oh let's get rid of Thanos relationship with death which is a pretty huge fucking part of his character in the comics. But don't make him gay, we don't want him to differ from how he is in the comics." And him being gay would change that because...? You could make Batman gay without stereotyping him. You could just include a scene of him flirting with a guy the same way he flirts with catwoman.
  6. Black Sabbath

    general media Forced Diversity

    Why yes, that is a dumb idea. Which is why nobody proposed it. I did say that you could justify making, say, Batman black if a black actor gave the best audition. WhatI did say was that wanting representation was a valid reason to turn a straight character gay. Also, Batman is an especially poor target for your little rant. Comics are notorious for massively changing characters on a whim, so why should things like race and sexuality be off the table? Take All Star Batman and Robin for example, anybody who has so much as glanced in the general direction of a Batman poster before reading that can tell you that Batman differs quite a bit in that version from the normal continuity. Or how about Superman, that guy has changed everything from his superpowers to his personality multiple times. I mean, compare silverage superman to the one in man of steel and tell me they aren't completely different. In short, why are those changes okay but not changes to characters sexuality? Maybe if less of the criticism were about the gender of the cast, you wouldn't have been called sexist. Like, I don't like the 2016 Ghostbusters but let's at least aknowledge that it did receive a lot of sexist criticism, even before they commentated that.
  7. I don't think it should. Movie franchises shouldn't focus on the past, they should create new things. If I'm so desperate to see Tatooine or Hoth or whatever planet, I can just rewatch the first trilogy.
  8. Black Sabbath

    general media Forced Diversity

    I don't think it's fair to place wether or not the fandom agrees with the change over the quality of the writing. If it works within the IP is a decent requirement, I can buy that. But the quality of the writing should definitely matter more than what the establishment fandom thinks. . Would the story be worse if he was? The answer to both of these questions are not necessarily. As for reasons for why such a chance would be made, 1) Maybe a non-white actor gave the best audition 2) Maybe the writers just wanted to include some representation of gay people. Adaptations have made bigger changes to characters than their sexual orientation or race. Acting as if the character is gonna turn to shit just because they're gay instead of straight is just idiotic. "Oh but why don't they just write new characters that are gay?" You mean like they did with Tracer and soilder 76, because that generated no outcry at all? "Oh but those were never confirmed to be gay from the start so they doesn't count". Alright, what about that one gay guy and that non-binary person from Apex Legends then, In short, if you're gonna get shit from making a character gay, wether they're completely new or already established, then why not pick the one that's already a garentueed success? How does it not? If you do something due to racism then surely it strives to achieve a political goal. I mean, removing representation purely for representation sake is equally politically motivated as adding representation purely for representation sake. Also, so it's forced representation if I make a batman that's gay because I want there to be more gay superheroes but if I do so out of a hatred for straight people, it's not. That makes no sense.
  9. Black Sabbath

    general media Forced Diversity

    Who says I'm not? And speaking of accusing people of having double standards; I'm not, I'm just saying that as a whole the "forced diversity" complainers seem a bit hypocritical. I'm sure that there's plenty of people who complain about it regardless of what race/gender/sexuality etc is being forced but that doesn't change that a large part doesn't. Heck, I have the same complaint against people who are against whitewashing. Edit: "But there were a lot of complaints about Tina Swinton. Doesn't that prove you wrong?" I hear you say. Well, no. Mainly because said complaints came not from those normally complaining about "forced diversity" but rather from, well, tumblr that complained about whitewashing. Which was stupid and hypocritical since a lot of those who complained are otherwise for changing the race, gender etc of characters. And maybe those people aren't the target audience for a reboot? This is also ignoring the fact that people comain about "forced diversity" even in media that aren't based on anything else.
  10. Black Sabbath

    general media Forced Diversity

    Ra is the god of the sun. Geb is the god of the earth. Nut is the godess of the sky. Then we Set who is the god of the deserts, chaos, foreigners and some other stuff. Isis was married to Osiris (god of the underwold) and was the godess of magic. Anubis was the god of mummification and was the son to either Set or Osiris (that depends on what myth you're looking at). Just wanna be clear, your argument is that it's only forced diversity if people care about it. It's not about the quality of the writing or anything like that?
  11. Black Sabbath

    general media Forced Diversity

    Let's see, Doctor Strange was based on a relatively popular comic book, Last Samurai were based on an actual event (and I think we all know how concered about historical accuracy some people are) and gods of Egypt were based on actual Egyptian mythology. How is it not forced diversity? We both know that people would have complained had the roles been reversed.
  12. Black Sabbath

    general media Forced Diversity

    This part more or less sums up my issue with the term. If you're gonna complain about shitty writing, complain about the shitty writing. But don't pin the blame on the diversity. Ghostbusters 2016 were a shitty film, but it'd be equally shitty if all the cast members were guys. And on a sidenote, am I the only one who's noticed that the "forced diversity" complaint isn't very consistent. I mean, I know a lot of people who constantly complains about forced diversity yet who didn't have a problem with Tom Cruise in the last samurai or Tilda Swinton in Doctor Strange or that Gods of Egypt movie? While the latter two examples did generate some outcry on Tumblr (which were equally dumb), many who usally talks about "forced diversity" and how it's ruining media either stayed oddly silent or flatout defended those casting choices.
  13. Black Sabbath

    general media Forced Diversity

    That's a separate criticism though, and one that's rarely voiced by the same same kind of people who talks about "forced diversity".
  14. Black Sabbath

    general media Forced Diversity

    I don't believe it's an actual thing. Complaining about it is just a fancy way of saying "I don't want women/blacks/gay people etc in my media" without sounding sexist/racist/homophobic etc.
  15. That's true, but I never said it wasn't. My point was that whether or not you can justify any potential problem is irrelevant because the problem is still gonna be there regardless.
  16. "And I just rolled my eyes because I couldn't believe that these kids that claim to be die hard anime fans had NEVER heard of Ghost in the Shell" is it just me or is it starting to get a bit gatekeep-y in here? The notion that you can't be "a diehard fan" without knowing about [insert popular thing here] needs to die off. "But instead of being valid criticisms, they were stupid things like: "Why are the graphics so bad?" and "Why is the way the characters look so weird?" I just groaned in annoyance, because these kids were too dumb to know that this anime was nearly 20 years old, so it's obviously going to look kinda dated compared to now." I really don't like this argument. I mean, it still looks bad at the end of the day, regardless of it's justifiable or not. Yes, heaven forbid people develop their own taste. The same thing applied to the vast majority of the previous generation of anime fans. I'm gonna assume that, based on this line, you haven't actually talked to any teenage anime fan.
  17. 1) One could argue that by mentioning one of the characters having been in a gay relationship just as causally as if it been a straight one, it serves to normalise LGBT relationships. 2) Why does it have to accomplish something? Would you have the same critique had said characters bio mentioned that he had a girlfriend? Again, would you have said the same thing if said character was straight? Small nitpick, but it doesn't have two gay characters. It has one. Yes, another character is non-binary but that isn't really the same thing.
  18. I think one or two were proven false. However, it's important to remember that that doesn't affect the other accusations.
  19. "OH and be sure to make at least two of your characters gay like recently announced in Apex Legends despite having no story or lore whatsoever." So how many pages of lore do you need before you're allowed to have gay characters without it being considered pandering?
  20. Why? Isn't it better to explore new and interesting places rather than revisit the same old stuff because nostalgia-bait?
  21. Criticism that were based on the main characters being women, though. I get that there are plenty of actually valid criticism to be made about Ghostbusters 2016, but that doesn't really change the fact that a lot of the criticism it received was about the genders of the it's main characters.
  22. Wait till the trailer drops, I'll guarantee that people will be upset over there being women included.
  23. Or here's the third option, it's possible to "stand for" something without it being an element of harmony and they put redemption as Sunset not because she's a redeemed villain but because it's a value that she thinks is the most important to her.
  24. Yeah no, this is not a confirmation that Sunset is actually an element of harmony. All it says is that she stands for redemption but not that redemption is an element of harmony.
  25. Nah, the first movie was, to be honest, not that good. I'd rather the put the effort on Gen 5.
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