brambleshadow4

I don't know. "Babs Seed", "Hearts as Strong as Horses", and "We'll make our mark" are all phenomenal.

Dropping my comments Kyoshi mentions Discord’s use of magical mischief and its effect on the overall episode, and I think this is a valid critique of not just this episode, but every Discord episode following “Keep Calm and Flutter On.” But while Discord’s magic is almost always unnecessary, it’s also the one thing that differentiates Discord from all other characters. After all, Discord was defined to be the spirit of disharmony back in season 2, and with disharmony comes total chaos. Dropping this characteristic would make Discord feel less like Discord, but at the same time, isn’t he supposed to be reformed? I don’t know where I personally would draw the line between what’s too much and what isn’t enough (though this episode nailed the balance for me). If we want to venture off into speculation, I suppose that Discord’s actions could be interpreted as nothing more than a performance. Depending on whom he’s with and what happens around him, he reacts to it in order to elicit the greatest response from those he’s around. This makes him the ultimate troll lord, which in turn makes me ask if he keeps up the performance when there’s no pony around to see it. Really, I don’t think I’d ever tell Discord to turn it down a notch unless it was getting in the way of the story, though it’s hard to determine whether anything Discord does could actually do this. As long as he doesn’t filibuster for more than a minute, the story will always move onwards, and whether pro Discord or not, you’re not stuck with one gag for too long. ph00tbag here provides a really interesting take on Discord not too dissimilar from my own idea of Discord’s nature being more of a performance than genuine style, though I hadn’t considered that particular part of Discord’s performance to be fabricated. But then, besides messing around with other characters, how could we ever really know what Discord actually likes? He seems more of the type to leave others guessing than to actually reveal his true self. If Discord is trying to conform and act like your typical Equestrian stallion, who is he looking to as a reference? Spike and Big Mac are the only two male characters we see often, and it’s probably safe to assume with all their secret whispering that their Ogre and Oubliettes game is probably not considered normal. But then, if we take Friendship is Magic #11 (the comic) into consideration, the whole O&O thing is probably more common that we’d expect. In our world, D&D’s popularity is only growing, to the point that it also probably isn’t considered a weird thing. Given the fact that there’s also probably a lot of MLP fans who are also roleplaying fans, it’s even possible to interpret the opposite as true. Thus Spike and Big Mac would be conforming to stereotypes from our world while Discord actually breaks them by wanting to do something different. Especially with D&D and roleplay’s popularity on the internet, I tend to consider Big Mac & Spike’s behavior more normal than Discord’s. Either way, it’s likely that the audience will feel connected to one group or the other which in turn makes the episode feel more relatable, so it’s a plus either way. But, Zantetsuken, isn’t this really the entire point of Friendship is Magic? Simply getting to watch our favorite ponies learn and grow throughout mostly normal experiences in their lives? I don’t know what most think of earlier seasons, but seasons one and two really thrived on these kind of experiences. Almost every episode started out as either a day at work, or a day off from it, but from there they always branch away the normal and into what’s actually meaningful. Sometimes, the transition is due to an event taking place, but sometimes it’s just a conversation that starts the ball rolling. I also think that as the seasons keep coming, most tend to forget that episodes don’t need to have world exploring or entire new races/species introduced in order to be good. Sometimes, all that’s needed are small interactions and gestures between different characters. For instance, nothing really happens in “Amending Fences;” it’s just Twilight talking and hanging out with her old friends in Canterlot. Yet this episode ended up being loved by many fans, and it has everything to do with the way Twilight and Moondancer interact with each other. This is what I think “Dungeons and Discords” was aiming for, a compelling story based on the interactions between Discord, Spike, and Big Mac. The game, although aforementioned by the title, is really secondary, as I believe it also is in real life. It’s not so much the game itself, but whom you play it with, that is the source of the enjoyment (of course, you can also like the game objectively, but if you can’t find any friends to play it with, you’re still out of luck). Also, if the episode’s really trash, why rate it 5.5/10? Hey you! Did you actually read through this? If so, you also might like this

You're essentially accusing me of comparing someone/something to a Nazi, and that isn't what I did (I substituted in the word "Nazi" to show how the lyrics could be used to justify anything, e.g. Nazism), so naturally I'm going to rebuke your claim. Anyways, we're not getting anywhere closer to understanding each other. I don't think there's anything more I can say to help you see my perspective; all you've told me is that I've "willfully ignored" aspects which I haven't, time after time, so I can't tell if you're considering my thoughts or are blindly discrediting them. Goodbye ph00t. Maybe next time we'll reach an understanding, but for now there's nothing more I can do.

So it looks like we're using two different definitions of Godwin's law. According to Mr. Godwin (source) the law is "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one" (comparison bolded for emphasis). Interpret that how you will, but in my original argument I do not compare (and compare is the key word) anything to Hitler or Nazism to anything, so I have not "lost" any debate by the means of Godwin's law. And, yes, by the episode's end, it clearly is about Spike, but that's not the problem I have with the episode. Allow me to break it down step by step, as I feel we're missing each other. My problem is with the conclusion not being about Thorax, or alternatively, the rising action not being about Spike. Don't get me wrong, from early on we know all about Spike's reputation. However, it's not a source of conflict then, rather, it's more of an annoyance. When Spike meets Thorax, he has no problem with risking his reputation to help his friend, so the only conflict is between Thorax and the other ponies. This conflict continues to build as the guards laugh at Spike telling them about his changeling friend. It comes to a breaking point when Thorax's identity is discovered. We see the ponies's anger, and changeling-pony tension is higher than ever. This is also when Spike's reputation comes in. His denial adds another conflict, so now it's Thorax vs. Ponies (+Spike momentarily) but also Spike vs. Self as he considers the weight of his actions for himself politically. While we've seen Spike mention his reputation, before it has been a source of strength, not doubt, so it's a bit of a 180 degree turn. It's a good plot twist, but it is a twist, and this conflict is not one that was not present in Spike's first meeting with Thorax (the other one was). When we arrive at the final scene, the conflict between Thorax and ponies continues to rise, but Spike's conflict is mostly internal now. He's made his mistake, he's regretted it, and he's now doing the right thing by correcting his early mistake. In some sense, his conflict is already resolved; all that's left is facilitating the final confrontation between the ponies and Thorax. Spike can only undo his wrong by making Thorax's conflict right, and he needs to step in as a mediator to resolve the conflict between the parties. And that's what's missing at the end, because Spike doesn't sing a song vouching for Thorax's acceptance. Instead, he vocalizes his internal conflict through song without addressing any of the legitimate reasons for why the conflict exists between Thorax and the ponies. None of them know about Thorax and Spike's relationship, and by song's end they still don't know anything about it. While it does bring a nice close to Spike's internal drama, it doesn't address the Changeling in the room, and this conflict (which again, has been built up through out the entire episode) simply abates without reason. That's what I mean when I say the conflict is inconsistent; it starts one place, then adds another dimension, but never adequately concludes the original conflict ( which it could have done, if they chose for the song to not be about Spike, or if they dropped the song altogether). I know you're going to tell me ph00t that Spike's conflict was present all along, but was it really? Where do we see Spike struggle (and I mean struggle, not being annoyed ) with his reputation? We see Thorax's struggle immediately, but Spike's doesn't seem to show up until near the end. Anyways, I hope I've made myself clear where I see the start and end of each conflict, and why their ordering makes me see the episode as one not about Spike's conflict, but about Thorax's. I also want to point out that just because the episode is through Spike's eyes, doesn't mean that the conflict need be centered on him. Novels like "The Great Gatsby" are good example of this; the novel's about Gatsby, but it's through the eyes of his neighbor, Nick Carraway. With MLP:FiM frequently introducing more and more characters, I don't think it would be strange to utilize this tactic.

Oh please. If you've written a thesis about Godwin's law, I'll gladly read it, but don't tell me I'm calling anyone a Nazi merely because I used the term. "Thorax's presence is the motivation behind the episodes actual story." That's the problem; if one conflict is the primary reason why another smaller conflict happens, and the two happen simultaneously, why wast time exploring the smaller conflict? From the above post, it sounds like we both agree that the conflict involving Thorax is incoherent, which is problematic, as the majority of the episode's screen time is with regards to the changeling conflict. If the episode spent significantly less time involved with Thorax and more with Spike struggling with his position, then it would make sense to interpret the episode as about Spike. But the episode didn't do that, it chose to have the conflict regarding Thorax be the one that builds the tension, and so we should expect the climax and resolution to be about that same conflict. You know, basic Freytag's pyramid. We can drop the "personal" if you like; we'll know if it's actually personal or not next time Thorax & Cadance makes an appearance (after all, some ponies like Starlight Glimmer do go directly from enemy to close friend. We need another episode to see what's actually genuine)

Discussions only end when one party decides they wish to discuss no more. Also, I did not compare anyone or anything to Hitler or Nazism, I merely used those words as alternate lyrics to demonstrate potential problems with the song. Rest assured, we haven't proved Mr. Godwin right yet. It's very easy to interpret the episode as being about the changeling conflict, because apart from Spike complaining about his status before the theme song, every conflict after that is with regards to the changeling; the city's abandoned because of the changeling, the Crystal ponies are freaking out because of the changeling, they go out and search for changelings because there's a changeling, and so forth. So yes, there are hints of a conflict over Spike's status at the beginning, but the narrative is moved forward by the conflict with the changeling, not the conflict with Spike's status and reputation. I'm not "subconsciously downplaying" anything; there's just more content and conflict regarding the changeling, making this the main conflict. And the transition in the episode isn't from "get out or die" to "maybe we won't kill you or kick you out," it's from enemy of the state (as Changelings have always been considered enemies of ponykind) to personal friend of the Princess (as Cadance personally went to become friends with Thorax). And that is a big leap, and yes it deserved to be explored more fully. It's also a lot more interesting than Spike's status, so I don't know why the writers would want to cut that short.

I know what you mean. The ND and MD (as we like to call nightly and morning discussions) have always been like that. There's almost never any actual discussion there, as the title is more of a misnomer than anything. Still, it can be fun as long as you're okay with people posting random (and objectively terrible) comments 24/7 There's also a secret discussion on EQD that tends to be much better than the ND and MD, but it's secret (in order to keep the ND/MD people from finding it). There's no way to find it until you accidentally do so.

It was just announced a few hours today that EQD is now hosting their own own mlp forums. Source: http://www.equestriadaily.com/2016/08/after-years-of-requests-equestria-daily.html I'm not quite sure what to make of this news, as I've always thought of the MLP forums as the place for MLP forums (jeez, I wonder why), and while I've only made an account just recently on this site, I'm still annoyed that now EQD is trying to, I don't know, steal the traffic of this site? The whole thing's just really weird, as it looks like it's only going to further divide the fandom into subfandoms rather than bring it together as one community. Anways, as the MLP forum community, I'm wondering what you think about this news.

As with all episodes that the fandom likes at large, I tend to have many bones to pick with it. However, this doesn’t change the fact that many are ecstatic with it. Mind you, I really could have picked any post on the forum to respond to, but I’m going to respond to Dark Quivit’s because: a) our preferences for episodes are pretty much complete opposite, and b ) as I’ve read several of Quivit’s posts criticizing episodes I enjoy, I think it’s only fair for me to do likewise every once and a while. That said, I disagree with Dark Quivit, though I don’t think the episode is bad, though compared to what we’ve seen from earlier episodes, I’d put it in the 33rd percentile (i.e. 2/3 of episode are better). It’s true that Thorax is cute and that the audience can relate to him, and it’s true that Spike exerts a benevolent character, but lots of characters from the show are cute, relatable, and sympathetic, so what’s the big deal? For me, it is the delivery of the narrative and its conflict that determine the quality of an episode In terms of conflict though, “The Times They Are a Changeling” is all over the place. The primary conflict starts out as one centered around Thorax not being able to have friends due to his changeling nature, but by episode’s end it’s all about Spike’s reputation and him regretting mistakes. Somewhere between the 15 minute mark and the end, all the interesting nuances of having to interact with a friendly changeling are scrapped to deliver a story about Spike and denial. It’s upsetting, because the story undermines any themes of trying to understand pariahs in favor of focusing more on redeeming Spike for his pitfalls. So in the end, it’s not even about Thorax or inclusivity at all; it’s about “risking reputation in the name of friendship.” This is especially true in the song, as this is the one moment where Spike should be explaining to the others why they should treat Thorax kindly. But instead providing any explanation, he merely confesses “That sometimes I’m scared and I can make mistakes / And I’m not so heroic, it seems.” Never mind the fact he’s confessing to the wrong characters, it’s still completely irrelevant. Spike just said, “No, he’s not a thing. His name is Thorax, and he’s my friend,” so you would expect the song to explain to the others why Spike is friends with a changeling, but he never does. Instead, they all just roll with his confession, accept his conclusion without question, and any issue with Thorax being a changeling is dropped altogether. None of this makes any logical sense. In other words, While I think DJ is being a little blunt, the point’s completely valid. Spike’s confessional song at the end of the episode doesn’t close the can of worms opened up by Thorax’s existence; something more is needed to justify all of ponykind accepting him besides Spike’s word. However, this doesn’t necessarily mean we have to get rid of the song, just change the lyrics. After all, other songs like Equestria Girls manage to be both meaningful and persuasive. For instance, the lyrics “Hey, hey, everybody we’ve got something to say / We may seem as different as the night is from day / But you look a little deeper and you will see / That I’m just like you and you’re just like me.” not only sound pretty, but also imply that the humans in EG have a lot in common and are capable of uniting together for a common purpose. On the other hand, the lyrics from “The Times They are a Changeling” “But if day can turn to night and the darkness turn to light / Then why can’t we imagine a changeling can change?” might sound pretty, but a pretty analogy doesn’t say anything about Thorax’s character. For instance, we could use the same analogy to “imagine a Nazis that’s nice.” Anyways, Takai’s comment brings up an interesting question in my mind: is Thorax actually accepted at the episode’s end? Because all those lines like “If Spike says Thorax is his friend, then he’s my friend too” could just be empty words. Princess Cadance’s “I would like to extend my hoof in friendship” especially sounds a lot more like something a politician would say than a close friend, and as they all are Royalty/second-tier, they still need to maintain those diplomatic relations. Even if they weren’t really friends, they’d still probably say that they were. Disregarding any cynical interpretations of Equestrian politics, I think there’s a lot more to acceptance than merely saying “We’re friends,” though this phrase or similar seems to be uttered more and more often. Between the yaks of season five and the dragons of season six, it seems to be a go-to phrase used whenever the writers have no other way of convincing us that the two parties are indeed friends, and I find is detrimental to the show. After all, friendship is magic, not saying “we’re friends” is magic, and friendship is built through actions, not words alone. We know through Spike’s actions that he’s accepted Thorax for who he is, but I don’t think we can make that judgement call for Twilight and the others quite yet. I’m sure they all will live by their words, but until they do, those words don’t mean that much, for better or for worse. ------ All quotes on this post were also shared on my pony blog: http://aboutthemponies.tumblr.com/post/149434213210/responses-from-the-forums-the-times-they-are-a

I agree in full, and hopefully we do get to see some of the under developed ideas in future episodes ( I haven't looked at any episode names or synopses, so I have no idea what to expect out of the rest of the season). And a slumber party in Twilight's Castle would totally be the best thing ever! MLP WRITERS YOU MUST DO THIS!

Many people, myself included, have noticed the similarities between this week’s episode and “The Mysterious Mare do Well.” When reading through the forum thread, you can’t go far before someone pipes in that “This episode is the Mysterious Mare Do Well 2.0” or alternatively “This episode isn’t another Mysterious Mare Do Well, but an improvement.” Nowhere do you find any pony who thinks that “The Mysterious Mare Do Well” might actually be a good episode, which means the episode’s negative reputation is never disputed. This is problematic, because not only is it impossible to conclude that the episode is terrible without any evidence or reasoning (which the majority have somehow forgotten to include altogether), but people like myself actually enjoy the episode and think that it’s a good one. Mind you, I too must provide my reasoning, so here’s why I find the MMDW to be quite enjoyable. The episode begins with Rainbow Dash stroking her ego a little, but also earnestly saving others from danger when something goes awry. When she gains even more attention for her heroism, she doesn’t soak up this attention immediately, but stays humble, saying she was just in the right spot at the right time. Thus, the audience knows that while she might be a little egotistical at times, at heart she’s isn’t, it’s a performance that she takes on (and as Twilight points out, Dash is pretty awesome at the end of the day). This gives Rainbow’s character an enjoyable contrast: she both loves the performance but also doesn’t depend upon it; she’s just out there to help other ponies. However, later on Rainbow becomes too swept away with the act and starts caring less about the actual heroism and more about the fame. This is a reasonable mistake, as many of us go through a fame or popularity obsession, which makes the conflict relatable. The rest of the Mane 6 try to help Rainbow get back on track, by giving her a role model to look up to, the Mysterious Mare Do Well. If Rainbow Dash remembered her original intentions, she would have no problem with this; after all initially she was just saving others to help out. Instead, Rainbow Dash’s hunger for fame brings out the worst in her (as it can for celebrities in real life), and she takes it out on the Mysterious Mare Do Well. Only after jumping on her and realizing Mare Do Well is her friends in disguise does Rainbow Dash finally realize her misplaced motivation was the culprit. This is a really neat twist which makes it so that Rainbow Dash essentially teaches herself the lesson (the rest of the Mane 6 only catalyzed the reaction). Thus, “The Mysterious Mare Do Well” as a whole provides a fascinating look on Rainbow Dash’s psyche as well as the dangers of pursuing fame, and I see no reason why to discount it as an enjoyable episode. Of course, there are a few who provide arguments for why they find “The Mysterious Mare-do-well bad episode. I want to thank Alexander here for providing his reasons, though I disagree with his condemnation of the Mysterious Mare Do Well on the basis of hypocrisy. I do not think the Mane 6 are ‘relishing in their own accomplishments’ in this scene. It’s true that they are technically praising themselves, but what they’re really trying to do is convince Dash that heroism need not be egoism, and they do this by focusing their attention on the Mysterious Mare Do Well, who’s selfless (as a heroic performance anyways). They only praise Mare Do Well to sell the act, and not because they wanted to be the focus of praise (which is was what Dash exclusively did). I also disagree that the episode was dedicated to humiliating Dash; the only reason she ended up “humiliated” was due to her own actions, and as the Mane 6 immediately forgave her afterwards, I hardly think it would leave a lasting effect on Dash (Rainbow doesn’t seem like the kind of girl to hold a grudge, unless it’s about winning some sporting event). But getting back to the episode at hand, I fully agree with Alexander here. There can be no doubt of intention in this later episode, though I’d also say the same for “the Mysterious Mare Do Well.” The zombies are predictable, but again, if you’re going to rewatch episodes many times like I do, predictability isn’t much of an issue (it is, however, a lot of fun to see zombie ponies). Also, some other random thoughts I like this part of Justin’s comment (check out the link for the full thing), because it’s less small about small nitpick details and more about the larger picture as a whole. However, I do want to point out that in the last several seasons, the show’s shifted in a direction much like what Justin’s talking; episodes like “The Crystalling,” “On Your Marks,” “Gauntlet of Fire,” “No Second Prances,” “Newbie Dash,” “The Saddle Row Review,” “Flutter Brutter,” and “Spice Up Your Life” all are more adventure/career/development focused than normal slice of life, and they make up 3/5ths of the season thus far. Really, there haven’t been many light-hearted episodes focused on just the mane 6, and as they are what I enjoy most about the show, I’m quite happy with an episode that’s primarily focused on something less serious, like pranking. That said, I agree that among the more slice of life episodes, there could be a better focus. In episodes like “The Cart before the Ponies,” one wonders why the writers chose to tell such a straight-to-the-point story, as opposed to something with a little more pizazz. Like, why tell this story as opposed to something else? However, I don’t have this problem with “28 Pranks Later” as all the pranks in this episode, especially the zombies, add a lot of fun to this episode, making it enjoyable even if the moral isn’t the most stellar. But let me flip this same criticism on the adventure/career episodes as well. Could they have a better focus? I know many in this fandom enjoyed “The Saddle Row Review,” but it’s mostly for the different style and humor (which was merely okay in my book). The narrative of the episode itself is kind of boring; the mane 6 go in, screw things up, and then immediately fix them without any real consequence, so despite this being a major land mark in Rarity’s career, it doesn’t really add anything thematically. There’s not really any conflict, and correspondingly there’s no lesson learned. For this reason, I don’t think the type of story (adventure, slice of life, career development) determines how good the episode is. As always, these and other thoughts of mine can be found @ aboutthemponies.tumblr.com

I'm going to like, respond to 3 posts at once because that's how I roll This kind of remind me of the satirical “A Series of Unfortunate Events” by Lemony Snicket. In that series, there’s a joke that all the “responsible” adults are incompetent and that the villains always get away because “no one ever listens to children.” This actually brings up an interesting point, because often in children’s literature, it is the kids that save the day, not the adults. As MLP is aimed towards a younger audience, one wonders if it would be okay for the CMC to save the Mane 6 every once and a while. However, any kind of adult-child relationship like this is a little undermined by the fact that Rainbow, Rarity, and AJ are the protagonists of the show at large, and the CMC are only secondary protagonists. As protagonists, there is an expectation that it is they who will either save the day or screw up and learn their lesson. Normally CMC episodes choose the former, and one of the Mane 6 step in and help the CMC, but here the latter is chosen which causes the reversal of roles. In any case, I do agree that it’s awkward, and I know the writers tried to shift some of the fault on to the CMC, but that too backfired in my opinion. Especially so because neither AJ, Rarity, nor Rainbow picked up on the numerous hints that their actions were not what their filly wanted. I mean, how do you not notice the CMC constantly interfering with the cart design? Dekutree brings up a lot of interesting ideas in her/his post, and I think it would have been cool if the writers did pair the CMC differently among their sisters. We do know (from Sisterhooves Social) that Sweetie Belle is fond (or used to be) of Applejack after all, so that pairing would work. I don’t know about the others pairings; could Scootaloo really handle Rarity’s personality? Anyways, I don’t know if it ever crossed the CMC’s minds to ask someone other than their (adopted)? sister. Looking back at the episode, Cheerilee suggests working with the pony you want to ride with, but not the most qualified pony. Only after this line does she even mention the ribbons, and before then the CMC made remarks that they knew who they were going to ask. So the top priority seems to be not winning a ribbon, but just having a good time while working alongside an older, more knowledgeable pony. But suppose they did mix it up, and Applebloom worked with Dash, Scootaloo with Rarity, and Sweetie with Applejack. In this situation, the motivation behind their actions becomes a desire win the ribbons, instead of just having fun and trying something new. The episode already puts a pretty big emphasis on winning, given the fact that the prizes are custom-designed blue ribbons with a big “1” on them as opposed to plain old prize certificates (which from my experience, are the norm for this kind of thing). With this emphasis on winning, what’s the moral of the episode supposed to be, “winning is magic?” That theme seems rather worse than the “don’t get swept up by your own personal agenda” idea. But who knows? Maybe the writers could introduce some other conflict into the story as well. This is probably the most interesting response I’ve heard about the episode, though I’m surprised ph00tbag doesn’t mention “helicopter parents.” You know, those parents who are so determined to make their kid’s life as great as possible, so they control everything and monitor them 24/7. I think that’s a better comparison to make, as I don’t think the big ponies find the (my) little ponies lazy or disrespectful (in fact, all three are quite industrious and appreciative of the help). Instead, AJ, Rainbow, and especially Rarity, are so consumed by their own vision of what a childhood derby should be like that they impose this vision on their younger sisters without asking. This is the exact same thing as helicopter parenting, and it too is fueled by a desire to create the perfect childhood (sometimes, because the parent didn’t get the childhood he/she wanted, kind of like Rarity didn’t win ‘Most Creative’). And William Anderson’s music is totally the bomb! When the montage music started playing in the episode, I was thinking “YES! Anderson finally gets another chance to write some super catchy filler music like he did way back in Season One.” When the fullblown song arrived later, I actually was a little disappointed, because I totally was hoping to get a little more Anderson. In the end, I’m just happy the music team is stellar, as always. Anyways, I featured each of these comments on my blog. Check it out if you want.

I don’t have too much to respond to from your comment, but I think it’s an incredibly valuable one that addresses the whole out-of-character point many notoriously bring up from episode to episode. I say notorious, because almost every time some character acts differently than previously seen, there’s a whole outcry of people who are quick to say something similar to “Xpony was SO out of character, it kills me.” In real life, people also tend to act in unexpected ways from time to time, yet no one gossips about another person saying “You know Bob was really out of character today.” Real people are too complex to understand fully all the time, so we should also expect our fellow ponies to confuse us every once and a while, just like real people do. When I watched the episode, I wanted to know what Rarity’s full plan was; she definitely enjoyed the Tasty Treat’s food, so she probably didn’t want to change the restaurant completely. However, her mad redecorating earned just the opposite impression. While the two might seem to contradict each other, I personally had a fun time coming up with potential reason for her actions. Perhaps the whole gettup was intended just to impress Zesty; there’s nothing preventing the owners from continuing to serve their original food alongside the fancy. I think it’s also important to point out that Rarity was with Coriander and not Saffron. Coriander was definitely more interested in keeping the place open than in keeping the aesthetic. Rarity easily could have interpreted this as the number one priority, making conformity the way to go. Overall, I agree there’s definitely reasons for why Rarity’s actions make sense; it’s all a matter of thinking about the larger context that just assuming the situation is akin to Rarity and her fashion boutiques. (I featured your post on my blog http://aboutthemponies.tumblr.com/post/146038055435/responses-from-everywhere-spice-up-your-lifehope you don't mind)

The thing about cutie marks though is that they require a lot of hard work and discovery before one appears. As we saw from the CMC, they had to work 5 years beyond what other ponies had to do to earn their marks, and I'd say that those 5 extra years provided them another 5 years to practice and develop their talents. They still took the long route, it's just that their hard work was completed pre cutie mark. I'd say that if Zephyr got his cutie mark early, it means that he hadn't put in the hard work traditionally associated with gaining one, so to earn the right of passage associated with the mark, Zephyr still needs to put in that work. It's the same process, just at a different time in his life. (this is assuming that Zephyr put in less work than some in discovering their cutie mark, but as the time greatly varies from pony to pony, I'd say it's a reasonable assumption)

I get the impression that he didn't try them for very long though. In my eyes, you have to spend a significant amount of time on something before it counts as a try.

That's why I don't think the moral is "don't worry if at first you don't succeed, just try again." I think the moral is more along the lines of "Just try something, and don't worry if it's difficult at first." I interpret the moral this way because Zephyr never stuck with something long enough to overcome the initial difficulty.

For me, I interpret the shift towards sympathy at the end as Fluttershy and the others forgiving and forgetting. While the whole "forgive and forget" mantra might not be so popular in the real world, I get the sense that it's common in Equestria. Unfortunately, the show isn't exactly consistent with how it deals with this topic: in S5 we have Rainbow Dash destroy the weather factory and get away with it, in S6 we see her mess up a flight routine and be assigned punishment for a month. I really don't become invested in characters during their first appearances, so I don't care too much if Zephyr was just a standard TV trope. I was much more interested in watching how Fluttershy and the others dealt with him, and I felt their interactions were spot on. And yes, your last point could be a problem, but only if the viewers really want to make one. I interpret Zephyr as one case out of a multitude, and in his circumstances, he really did need to get out of the house and start working.

You make a good point about the episode trying to frame its moral one way when in fact it seems to point to another entirely. This interpretation makes sense to me, as I also interpreted the episode this way, yet I also don’t think that the episode is weaker because of it. The structure of a typical MLP episode is very akin to that of parables from works like the bible. Both present themselves as simple stories, but by story’s end they both present a specific message to the audience. The only difference is that MLP tries to summarize that message into friendship lessons, whereas the bible simply lets them sink in. This act of naming the lesson doesn’t change whatever insight was revealed through the story. At best it gives you a short quote to cherish and treasure; at worst it feels non sequitur and out of place. Such a summation also has the ability to provide another lens through which one can see the episode in a different light. In such instances, one might learn two different lessons from the same episode. However, this also opens up the possibility of misinterpreting the episode by looking too closely at the given moral. Episodes like “Feeling Pinkie Keen” (S1) and “Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep” (S5) both have morals which aren’t easily compressed into a single idea. Both of these episodes also have controversy around them due to their lessons. As every person will interpret them differently, it’s possible (and probable) that for some people, the given moral won’t make sense. With that in mind, I personally don’t have problem when an episode summarizes a lesson in a different way than I would; it’s very possible that their way will make much more sense to someone else. Thanks for the comment! I featured it on my MLP blog http://aboutthemponies.tumblr.com/post/145690815730/responses-from-the-mlp-forums-flutter-brutter It’s really neat to read a response from a person who relates to Zephyr Breeze more than other characters. I’m actually a little surprised that you didn’t full out dislike the episode; rather, you point out the validity of its message despite it being more geared against you. That definitely takes maturity. You also point out the sensitivity of such a conflict. It’s very easy (and typical) to frame a disagreement as a person in the right standing against a person in the wrong. This works well enough if it’s the mane six framed against Lord Tirek, or the CMC against the Diamond Tiara of early seasons, but here it’s family versus family, and none of the characters are intentionally trying to make matters difficult. In “Flutter Brutter,” the writers chose to have Fluttershy be in the right, thus condemning Zephyr. However, I definitely saw the writers trying to interpret Zephyr in the most positive way; never in the episode did the characters attack Zephyr the pony on a personal basis. Rather, they criticized his behavior, and sought to have him improve. However, I’d be interested in hearing what you have to say about the subject, as I’m personally not at the wrong end of the gun. Did the writers ever go too far in their criticism of Zephyr? I also want to point out that it’s not the song which causes Zephyr to finally get a job; it’s the shock factor of actually being throw out and into the forest. Not everyone has the survival training that you have, and I know if I were faced with such a choice, I would get a job immediately without a thought. Great comment; featured it on my blog http://aboutthemponies.tumblr.com/post/145690815730/responses-from-the-mlp-forums-flutter-brutter You state that Zephyr’s failed characterization is what causes this week’s episode to suffer in quality, but I’m not quite sure where you're drawing these conclusions. You're definitely right that Zephyr Breeze appears to be characterized as a millennial, but we mustn’t forget that this characterization is indirect. He earns the label, not by being in a different generation than Fluttershy, but by being lazy and arrogant throughout the episode. His actions make it very difficult for anypony or the audience to sympathize with him, so I’m not quite sure where the term “sympathetic character” is coming from. If anything, he’s a “love to hate” type of character. Because of this, there definitely isn’t anything funny or humorous about Zephyr’s character. Rather, the joy of this week’s episode comes from watching how Fluttershy and Rainbow react to him. It’s a typical situational-comedy set up, familiar territory for FiM, but as various people find various situations funnier than others, I can understand if it’s not everyone’s cup of tea. However, calling it “cheap” seems unfair as the jokes are well crafted; many of them are built from personality traits, like Spike’s dutifulness, Pinkie Pie’s extraversion, Flutterhy’s serenity, and Rainbow Dash’s intolerance to fawning. I’m also not quite sure how the episode’s intention isn’t clear. With the song at the end emphasizing the importance of dedication and hard work, it seems quite clear that the episode is message driven, and Zephyr’s journey from being kicked out of his parent’s house to Flutterhy’s later on follows the usual pattern of making a mistake multiple times before it finally is learned. If you're up for elaborating any more on your ideas, I’d be glad to listen.