Jump to content
Banner by ~ Ice Princess Silky

Music from Night Blaze (afan a.k.a [BC]afGun)


afan

Recommended Posts

@C. Thunder Dash, thanks. 

 

 

Would be nice if you had a solo violin over that bright choir and orchestra towards the end. 

May be. It was a long "casting" for pre-final solo, where finally kids choir won with backing violins section :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 weeks later...

The arrangements of the "Princess Platinum" ballad for a capella group "PonyBand".

As a result, in addition to the covers, there are two versions have created: "tavern" and "full instrumental". I guess, now is left to wait for the version with the "ponyband" voices. Their voices will be in russian, but someone want to sing, there are English interlinear lyrics too.

 

 

 

Score sheet with lyrics: https://musescore.com/user/4859756/scores/1266906

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...
(edited)

Dear Princess Luna, thanks for the inspiration sent down in to my dreams! ^_^

 

P.S. Almost completely orchestral. And almost ambient.

 

Edited by afan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Dear Princess Luna, thanks for the inspiration sent down in to my dreams! ^_^

 

P.S. Almost completely orchestral. And almost ambient.

 

 

It's a good listen. 

 

However, that piano is too stale in dynamics and too loud. Might wanna look into seeing how to can add some more dynamic width and flavor into the piano. As far as the writing for the piano, there's gotta be less of those blocked chords in the left hand. Right now, it doesn't sound like a night piece, more like a sunset. Put some arpeggios on the left hand to make it lighter and softer. Also, extended arpeggios from left to the right hand would be pretty effective. 

 

In terms of your strings, a very soft solo melody would work here as well. Lower the strings just a little bit and add some reverb to the strings if you want to add to more of the ambience.

 

In terms of your key choice, chords and time sig, you kinda limited yourself around the I, ii, vi and IV. I'd suggest you move around the chords with random progression patterns around all scale degrees. For this type of genre, you really don't need a specific chord progression, just something that won't sound repetitive. Nice use of uncommon time signature, 7/8. That you don't see every day. 

 

All in all, decent piece, but it could use work. I'm always here if you have any questions about what I said. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

@C. Thunder Dash, thanks for feedback.

 

 

 

that piano is too stale

 

Not fully understand: stale?

 

 

 and too loud

As it should. 

Actually, it plays in 4 hands in 3 different pianos, disguised as one. And piano is the mostly dominant instrument in the project.

 

 

 

Right now, it doesn't sound like a night piece, more like a sunset.

We have different kind of associations, i guess.The name was coined after the melody was been written.

 

 

 

 Put some arpeggios on the left hand to make it lighter and softer. Also, extended arpeggios from left to the right hand would be pretty effective. 

But not here. 

I needed a characteristic at low tones: clear and loud, not muted and soft. Of course, in the dynamics, piano kind were placed in calm as forte in places of strengthen.

 

 

In terms of your strings, a very soft solo melody would work here as well. Lower the strings just a little bit and add some reverb to the strings if you want to add to more of the ambience.

Already did.

Softer the violins solo makes them compleley unheared ghosts (which was not planned).

Softer the cellos destroys the global summary effects.

Softer the violas destroys the global summary effects.

 

Harder reverberation makes strings sound not bright enough and forces them to be louder as a result, and oversamples with pianos.

 

Actually, strings could be softer, but then they could not be heard in subwoofers - only on simple headphones. Snares part had the same story.

 

 

In terms of your key choice, chords and time sig, you kinda limited yourself around the I, ii, vi and IV

Yes, becouse of sound heared. And emotions of sound felt.

It was a melody from a dream, written "as is" as it was only possible.

 

 

 

 Nice use of uncommon time signature, 7/8. That you don't see every day. 

Not first time, actually :)

 

 

All in all, decent piece, but it could use work. I'm always here if you have any questions about what I said. 

Thanks. Actually, piano is not my main instrument for use (and I was forced to play on it from early childhood, till I started to hate it). As the melody type at all. So it can be called experimental. Or "copying" from my mind after sleeping :)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

Not fully understand: stale?

 

It is not dynamically diverse. It is flat and monotonous.

 

 

 

But not here.  I needed a characteristic at low tones: clear and loud, not muted and soft. Of course, in the dynamics, piano kind were placed in calm as forte in places of strengthen.

 

Forte and calm don't really mix...if you want calm, but not too soft, mezzo-piano would be your aim...

 

 

 

Thanks. Actually, piano is not my mane instrument for use (and I was forced to play on it from early childhood, till I started to hate it). As the melody type at all. So it can be called experimental. Or "copying" from my mind after sleeping
 

 

I've always loved piano...but see, here's the thing...I love when I get ideas and when I find a simple idea I love...I just build it...and then another layer may start playing in my head...or I find a sound that can go along with something I've made...still...decent listen...

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(edited)
It is not dynamically diverse. It is flat and monotonous.

 

 

It's techincal problem mostly. It's not real string-based piano, only synth (bright solo) or emulator (other 3 "hands"), and not living play.

All sound dynamics were placed according to my ears. Actually, it's strange that you didn't noticed it, including ghost notes at very high, and soft notes at very low. Especially in the ending part and interlude

 

Forte and calm don't really mix...if you want calm, but not too soft, mezzo-piano would be your aim...

 

1. Well, may be yes, may be not. But here was mixed. And projected so, that's for sure. And remember, that I'm using not only instruments but their sounds as palette.

2. If it was have to be, then it would be. I was need a specific strong and bright piano sound, especially on arp at the first half of track.

 Becouse of global effect first, becouse high frequency of sound the second.

 

 

In other kind of tracks - of course. Especially only for piano and for living play :)

 

 

I've always loved piano...
 
It was complicated problem. So i've begun to hate the music itself. Only 7 years later the things were radically changed.

 

and then another layer may start playing in my head...or I find a sound that can go along with something I've made...still...decent listen...

I know. That was the reason of why I had about 5 variants (now 6) of my very first track after first two years of work. And why I'm not against to remixes or other kind of reworks :)

Edited by afan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

And new has been released :)

 

 

 

Actually, it was an experiment, abandoned about year ago as failed. It was the strings-specialised experiment to make something powerful. But the work was promise to be some kind of waltz. >_<

Disappointment was great enough to abandon almost completed project (only end part was remained) and forget... till now. Apparently, the old ideas was subsided and fogotten, so I was able to continue with "come what may" mood. Eventually, the second experiment was happend above the old work. With electronics. I guess, it would be a remix, if was not original, heh...

 

So it is double experiment, which first is failed, by the author's opinion. So, listen at your own risk :D

Link to comment
Share on other sites

And new has been released :)

 

 

 

Actually, it was an experiment, abandoned about year ago as failed. It was the strings-specialised experiment to make something powerful. But the work was promise to be some kind of waltz. >_<

Disappointment was great enough to abandon almost completed project (only end part was remained) and forget... till now. Apparently, the old ideas was subsided and fogotten, so I was able to continue with "come what may" mood. Eventually, the second experiment was happend above the old work. With electronics. I guess, it would be a remix, if was not original, heh...

 

So it is double experiment, which first is failed, by the author's opinion. So, listen at your own risk :D

 

 

Ok

 

It's a decent track.

 

However, you limited yourself to the I and the V in terms of your chords. What you need is a steady 4-chord progression that could develop this piece more. I would also add a key shift from C to C# in the latter half of this piece, since it's a build. Some progressions I suggest are

 

I-V-vi-IV

 

vi-IV-I-V

 

IV-vi-ii-V

 

I-ii-vi-V

 

I-ii-IV-V

 

In terms of your sounds, that solo violin and cello could really benefit from some humanization. They are sounding very dry and unnatural sounding. Add a small amount of reverb to fix the dryness. Better yet, invest in garritan instruments. The garritan strings are high quality samples that can adapt to dynamic changes and are well known for their humanized sound. That bright sawtooth piano lead had a nice sound. However, instead of having repeat the same pattern, why arpeggiate it using different beat patterns. A polysynth string lead would go perfectly with this piece. 

 

As far as percussion, it changed the mood from this epic feeling to this sort of EDM feel, which took away the feeling of Midnight Dragons, and made more like a midnight bright party. I would keep the kick just running at single time, kick and nothing else. 

 

All in all, it's an ok piece, but it could use a lot of work in development, progressions, instrument choice and percussion. I'm always here if you need help in what I said in my critique. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(edited)

@@C. Thunder Dash

 

However, you limited yourself to the I and the V in terms of your chords.

Well, there was 49 track-voices already. More than half is a string section, (each one playng not more than 2 notes at once (better only one), but creating chord with unite play. As far, as i remember, many tries were attempted, including progressions. But at the end that strings begin to conflict, spoiling the instrument total sound.It was meny deletions and other decisions with no positive effect. The second reason why the project was abandoned.

Anyway, some progressions already are in support violins and violas sections, but can't be heared all the time becouse of total sound (added as palette) and dynamics. Bright enough were only fast playing violins. Additional adding starts to mess with it and some others. Especially with marcatos. Some times i was just forced to delete some notes becouse of strange effect of "highlighting"  not that notes and intruments what are needed.

 

 Add a small amount of reverb to fix the dryness

Actually, some reverb already was added. More of it makes it sound transparent, and seriously damage legato with hight-frequency sounds (casual problem when using reverb). Only amp, used before ending part, fixed it a little. What is also a good solution for the future, i guess.

 

 

Better yet, invest in garritan instruments. 

Thanks. It will not be superfluous :)

 

As far as percussion, it changed the mood from this epic feeling to this sort of EDM feel, which took away the feeling of Midnight Dragons, and made more like a midnight bright party.

The track's name was the other "epic" story. I just did not know what to call the result even and complete end of work. The work stared more than year ago - the fantasy kept stony silence all the time.

Work name was given "experiment 03". The first idea, as i metioned above, to create some powerful, may be logical continue of "My Dragon is - Good!" - or "experiment 02", which is corresponds to the idea of my old text writing creativity. So the first name in blacknote was: "Dragon Within" (which current album was named, yes).

After returning to work, there were several variants: "Flying dance with dragons", "dragon city", and double name: Midnight Dragons [While heroes sleep]". As you can guess, i was already to start associate it with dance (waltz, Karl!).

When start to converting to sound, the label was given as [MD] - meaning Midnight Dragons. Final name variant was "Midnight Dragon City", which was not given at the end.

So, yes, it's kind of party: young dragons going to club and getting acquainted with dragonesses, etc... :)

 

All in all, it's an ok piece, but it could use a lot of work in development, progressions, instrument choice and percussion. 

Thanks. In any case, there I learned new capabilities, not just used already known. Epecially with electronics and complete string-based patterns. EDM is not my genre, and I never created remixes or other kind of dance music.

Percussion could be, but seemed to be just extra fancy now plus messing with electronic sounds if used in the whole track. Usually, I'm starting to consider the track almost ready when elementary start to forget that I wanted to add. And finally, when starting to delete some added (so the percussion was). So, when I understand, that have completely no idea, what can be done next, the track starting to finalize.

 

 

 

I'm always here if you need help in what I said in my critique. 

Thank you. The progressions part is actualy very good new knowlege for me, so, I think, in the future will be special experiment with it and some other tricks, especially completely new or specialised for instruments. So, I'm always glad to see new info :)

 

 

Edited by afan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@@C. Thunder Dash

 

I will be grateful. But for now is better to see base information (theory), and move to the details and practic questions during the work itself, little later (not every time I release two works in a row, especially during one week. Need some rest.)

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 weeks later...

First experimental collaboration work. Together with KennyDash: synth-electronic musician. 

Must to say - very positive experience. ^_^

 

Ok

 

Your strings could really benefit from humanization. There's a very distracting cut at the end of the sample, which makes it sound very artificial. You can hear it more when the backup strings start that run on 8ths. I like that bright electric piano running on a phaser, along with that polysynth. I did feel that those snares later in the piece were out of place. A single reverberated bass drum hit would benefit at the end of those build-up phrases. 

 

In terms of your chords, I see you used four but...you still limited yourself to the repeating progression. if you use 4 chords, you actually have 24 ways of ordering them, plus, you have 7 scale degrees you can use to create different progressions. 

 

All in all, it's a decent piece, but it could use some work and development. I'm always here if you need me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(edited)

@@C. Thunder Dash

Your strings could really benefit from humanization. There's a very distracting cut at the end of the sample, which makes it sound very artificial. You can hear it more when the backup strings start that run on 8ths.

It's marcato strings.

Others have no cutting (usual "sustain vibrato" sound) which make them lose actual legato.

High back violins use sustain legato sound but also have no cut.

 

I guess you need to specify which exactly and at what time, becouse i'm not hearing any problem of that.

 

 I like that bright electric piano running on a phaser, along with that polysynth. 

 

Actially, it's "chamber" piano with "concert deep" piano at low chords. Both physically modelled  acoustic pianos from Pianoteq. No phaser was applied. Only small reverberation at low deep.

 

 

I did feel that those snares later in the piece were out of place. A single reverberated bass drum hit would benefit at the end of those build-up phrases. 

Not clearly understand, what you mean

 

In terms of your chords, I see you used four but...you still limited yourself to the repeating progression. if you use 4 chords, you actually have 24 ways of ordering them, plus, you have 7 scale degrees you can use to create different progressions. 

From this it was necessary to begin in the alpha versions. Especially the "how to do it". Now I can only say "sorry". -_-

 

 

All in all, it's a decent piece, but it could use some work and development. I'm always here if you need me. 

Thanks :)

Edited by afan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

@@C. Thunder Dash

 

It's marcato strings.

Others have no cutting (usual "sustain vibrato" sound) which make them lose actual legato.

High back violins use sustain legato sound but also have no cut.

 

I guess you need to specify which exactly and at what time, becouse i'm not hearing any problem of that.

 

 

 

Actially, it's "chamber" piano with "concert deep" piano at low chords. Both physically modelled  acoustic pianos from Pianoteq. No phaser was applied. Only small reverberation at low deep.

 

 

 

Not clearly understand, what you mean

 

 

From this it was necessary to begin in the alpha versions. Especially the "how to do it". Now I can only say "sorry". -_-

 

 

 

Thanks :)

The snare drum did not seem to fit into the piece at all. Giving the piece one solid bass drum after a rising noise sweep would be better.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(edited)

@@C. Thunder Dash

The snare drum did not seem to fit into the piece at all. 

No. It was introduced deliberately, according to the idea.

 

Giving the piece one solid bass drum after a rising noise sweep would be better. 

The are already much of basses including big hit. Just after the rising noise are no snares at all - only Wagner's concert (rising), chineese bass and big drum (with specific massive sound).

 

 

P.S. Edit:

 

I like that bright electric piano running on a phaser, along with that polysynth.

 

 

Aw... Now got what exactly did you mean...

 

The piano parts were written as secondary motive, which "main" for my part of work. Didn't actually planned at the beginning, but sound of low piano with electric bass was inspiring enough. From this, the orchestral idea was been started. 

 

 

Thanks anyway :)

Edited by afan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...
(edited)

Meanwhile, one more experimental long-term work is finally over.

The track was not originally planned, as I finished with the motives of the "Concordia Project" more than two years ago. But it was appeared again as the basis of the experimental work, from what it was was promised to be abandoned when due to force majeure the main essence of the experiment was failed. But I decided to finish what was started.

Whether it was worth it, it's not for me to judge. 

 

Edited by afan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Meanwhile, one more experimental long-term work is finally over.

The track was not originally planned, as I finished with the motives of the "Concordia Project" more than two years ago. But it was appeared again as the basis of the experimental work, from what it was was promised to be abandoned when due to force majeure the main essence of the experiment was failed. But I decided to finish what was started.

Whether it was worth it, it's not for me to judge. 

 

 

 

Ok. 

 

It's a good listen. However, your song ended up being on the wild west/cowboy side instead of about Celestia and Luna. This is due to that country sounding electric guitar and drum patterns. What you want to focus on is the epic aspect of the two. Bring out french horns, which are excellent for this sort of genre of epic orchestral. Those toms and other drums need to appear less often. Limit them to half notes or even whole notes and/or maybe let them strike at climactic points of the piece. 

 

In addition, I think you were trying to stuff too many ideas into this one piece. Even though you stuck to one tempo, you had so many chord changes and progressions, that it was hard to keep up with the occuring idea. I suggest that you start learning how to divide your piece into movements, which can really define your piece. Use the first movement for Celestia, the second for Luna, and the final movement for the two sisters together as one. 

 

In terms of your samples, you really need to shape those strings more. They have a cut that is very distracting for the listener. Your drums are too mono. You need to run them stereo for a more spacious and brighter sound. I see you used some bright sawtooth leads. However, you had them playing a melody identical to some other instruments in a certain part. I suggest you have a sawtooth lead running on portamato notes, meaning that it glides smoothly from one note to the next. 

 

All in all, this piece needs a ton of work. You need to work on managing your ideas and adhering to one or a few and not try to combine them all into one big piece. I'm always here if you need help with orchestrating and idea making. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(edited)

@@C. Thunder Dash,

 

 However, your song ended up being on the wild west/cowboy side instead of about Celestia and Luna. This is due to that country sounding electric guitar and drum patterns.

 о_О?!

 

If that - it was not planned at all (if I even wanted to, I would not have achieved such a sound).

 

But if you about back galloping ending guitar - it's from "Power of Harmony" and "Defenders of the Beter World" and "Hard way to get the Cutiemark", on wich the work is based. 

 

What you want to focus on is the epic aspect of the two. Bring out french horns, which are excellent for this sort of genre of epic orchestral.

They actually appears rarely. Mostly as back. Only on ending epic part ("Good Night" pattern) they are sounds strongly enough. On main epic part there is no brasses at all.

 

Those toms and other drums need to appear less often.

Which toms? There are the main (from older tributes), soft (also from older), big drums and massive drums.

Main galloping pattern is played on the main drums (acoustic bass drum) and it is the main rhyhtm picture.

 

So I don't understand a bit what you are talking about.

 

In addition, I think you were trying to stuff too many ideas into this one piece.

No. It's a composition work in dynamic action-scenical aspect. All motives are old (even intro and outro are the modified "concordia" theme, also playing on this track).

 

Even though you stuck to one tempo, you had so many chord changes and progressions, that it was hard to keep up with the occuring idea.

It was chosen by design.

 

 I suggest that you start learning how to divide your piece into movements, which can really define your piece. Use the first movement for Celestia, the second for Luna, and the final movement for the two sisters together as one. 

There was no real reason to do it becouse of focuse on action of both together. The semantic separation was only by the some instruments but even then - not permanent

 

In terms of your samples, you really need to shape those strings more. They have a cut that is very distracting for the listener.

I do not hear it. And while I do not feel the problem, I can not understand it. So I can not fix it.

 

Your drums are too mono.

Actually stereo with full panning for every single drum. 

 

 I see you used some bright sawtooth leads. However, you had them playing a melody identical to some other instruments in a certain part. I suggest you have a sawtooth lead running on portamato notes, meaning that it glides smoothly from one note to the next. 

Didn't understand what do you mean. "Sawtooth lead"?

 

All in all, this piece needs a ton of work. You need to work on managing your ideas and adhering to one or a few and not try to combine them all into one big piece. 

The whole work already taken too much time with failing of the main essence of it.

And I'm done with these motives with "Defenders of the better world" as most sucesful and "Power of harmony" as logical intro.

 

The main reason of "reanimation" was the collaboration work with merging styles in scenical trasitions and hits. Unfortunately, for the co-pilot the work seemed too complicated and he gave up. After that, the work lost all sense, why it was abandoned for a while.

Later, I completed the work in "come what may" mood.

The secondary goal of the experiment (for me) was the continuation of learning Hans Zimmer style (as it was started on "Defenders") with combining orchesra, gutiars and electronics and also the theme patterns. And it was complete.

 

 

Thanks for feedback anyway.

Edited by afan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

 

 

But if you about back galloping ending guitar - it's from "Power of Harmony" and "Defenders of the Beter World" and "Hard way to get the Cutiemark", on wich the work is based. 

 

Ah, that's your issue, using something from another song will put a damper on the possibilities of your song. Starting from scratch is much better due to the fact that you have a clean slate to start with. 

 

 

 

Which toms? There are the mane (from older tributes), soft (also from older), big drums and massive drums. Mane galloping pattern is played on the mane drums (acoustic bass drum) and it is the mane rhyhtm picture.   So I don't understand a bit what you are talking about.
 

 

What I mean here is, that you don't need much of a percussive drive. You can let the strings and other instruments carry themselves through the piece, and maybe have a timpani roll and strike at certain climatic areas of the piece. 

 

 

 

It was chosen by design.

 

Even if you want many chords in your piece, you have to learn how to connect them through smooth transitions.

 

 

 

I do not hear it. And while I do not feel the problem, I can not understand it. So I can not fix it.
 

 

You may have to invest in better string samples. You can tell that a string sample is a great sample due to how natural sounding it is and how it transitions from one note to the next. 

 

 

 

Didn't understand what do you mean. "Sawtooth lead"?

 

A sawtooth wave is one of the four basic synthesized soundwaves. A lead is an instrument that carries the melody. 

 

 

 

The mane reason of "reanimation" was the collaboration work with merging styles in scenical trasitions and hits. Unfortunately, for the co-pilot the work seemed too complicated and he gave up. After that, the work lost all sense, why it was abandoned for a while. Later, I completed the work in "come what may" mood. The secondary goal of the experiment (for me) was the continuation of learning Hans Zimmer style (as it was started on "Defenders") with combining orchesra, gutiars and electronics and also the theme patterns. And it was complete.    

 

Thanks for feedback anyway.

 

 

I couldn't quite get the Hans Zimmer feel in this piece. You needed to lay off on the percussion and add more strings and brass. I think what you really need to focus on is creating a piece that solely comes from a brand new idea and focusing on how to orchestrate. Orchestrating is one of the most important aspects when creating an orchestral piece. You have to know what instrument does what and where they appear in the piece. And no prob, I'm always here if you need me. 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

(edited)

@@C. Thunder Dash,  

Ah, that's your issue, using something from another song will put a damper on the possibilities of your song. 

*As delicately as possible*

Never heard of the variations? Or so rarely heard scenic soundtracks from films, album at once?

 

This is not a separate track, but a composition logically connected with old works as for one main project. If I wanted something really new, I would do it. But that was not the purpose of the work and the idea. Moreover, the guitar appeared there absolutely not by chance, but logically connected.  So, I'm not against anything new, but not to the detriment of the already given meaning.

 

Seems like that you do not understand the idea of this work, but perceive it as a self-sufficient song-track. Not as one of the soundtracks for one project.

 

 Starting from scratch is much better due to the fact that you have a clean slate to start with. 

Not for rhis idea.

 

Again. If I wanted something really new, I would do it. And this is easy to see by checking out my tracklist

 

 

What I mean here is, that you don't need much of a percussive drive. 

Actually, i was.  Even did not achieve the desired result.

 

 You can let the strings and other instruments carry themselves through the piece, and maybe have a timpani roll and strike at certain climatic areas of the piece. 

Timps were not planned. Strings were not planned as whole leading at the outro part with guitars. Actually the guitar-outro plan was only the guitars, chimes, some synth and galloping back drums with main drums.

 

Even if you want many chords in your piece, you have to learn how to connect them through smooth transitions.

And what do you think I did in this work as many older? -_-

 

You may have to invest in better string samples. You can tell that a string sample is a great sample due to how natural sounding it is and how it transitions from one note to the next. 

Here in Russia, i need to invest for money first. Given the economy difference - in not small numbers. So let us solve the problems in the order of the queue and available possibilities.

 

A sawtooth wave is one of the four basic synthesized soundwaves. A lead is an instrument that carries the melody.

There were many synths. And not only one of them was leading. Many of them were merged.

But i guess you're talking about "Celestial Harmony" (a little vibe-like sounding) preset, also used earlier in "The First Sunrise" ending and some other works, mostly as back or support for idiophones like crotales, vibes and glock. It was also merged with some other supports. Gliding was not planned (and not appear as option on synth plugin which was used).

 

Anyway. To get a little closer for idea what I was learn. -  Hear again Defenders of the better world, and next Hans Zimmer's "Greed" (from 2:30 to 5:40 ). Next hear again "Sisters" and "Hammerhead" with second half part of "Broken Arrow" theme

If you still didn't get it, well... Then I just don't know how to explain that you recommend some things, clearly without understanding how the idea is conceived and so, sometimes really against it.

Edited by afan
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 3 months later...

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Join the herd!

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...