A critical and delicate matter

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

In such extreme cases, there is nothing any of us can do to help. That's when professional advice is needed.

 

True, but at the same time, locking their status may send them into a frenzy. And frenzied internet goers are far more likely to have rule breaking outbursts than one that just dumps onto a couple status updates. Not to mention that some users are far more susceptible to emotional instability than others. So the issue at hand, while effecting them greatly, may not be as large or traumatic as loosing a family member or loved one. The removal and locking of statuses related to such emotional instability should be handled with the upmost of delicacy, and should only be used in cases of extreme abuse, were the member is near endlessly posting negative status updates.

 

But again, if one were to remove the option for the public to view all status updates via the main page, then the public could not be effected by the large scale depression, nor those who abuse it.

[SCS 7,443]

I am in the middle on this here.

 

I for one have posted about such a thing here before, not MANY times, but I have.

And there are many people who have frequently posted that who are obviously just looking for attention.

But there are also people who do need serious help.

I don't believe removing their voice is a great idea, but I do believe putting guidelines on it is quite necessary.

 

I do believe that all such topics should be restricted to the life advice section or a new similar section.

 

But making people be quiet about it is quite an ill decision.  I know I never went to get professional help until waaaaaay down the road, and I can't expect most people to either.

The saying "you don't know what you have until it's gone" is very appropriate.  Most people don't realize someone is going to kill themselves until it's done and over.  And the fact that someone is talking about it is quite amazing and a VERY VERY rare thing to see in someone very serious about that matter.

 

I say let people talk about it, I do agree you should send them a responsible message, and I believe that any posts out of the right area should be moved to the proper subsection.  But do not, for the sake of a life, delete it.

 

That is all.

 

We aren't restricting anyone's voice by not allowing people to post suicide threats here. There is a difference between asking for help with suicidal thoughts and threatening to commit suicide. People are always welcome to ask for advice and help with overcoming negative thoughts and difficulty overall in the Life Advice section.

 

Additionally, if someone needs serious help they should be getting it from a licensed psychologist in real life. They are professionally trained and truly qualified to help people overcome negative thoughts of this magnitude.

 

Lastly, as I said in my other post, I'm all for protecting individual freedom of expression as much as possible, but a line must be drawn. When it gets to the point where whatever someone has to say is harming other people substantially they no longer have the right to say it here. That is the fundamental principle behind all rules we have, including this one.

 

 

Comes off as rather cold and pass-the-buck-ish to me.  And that nonsense about it being a downer is, well...  Nonsense.  I assure you that simply reading about suicide is nowhere near as much of a downer as occupying the state of mind that led one to discuss and / or consider it in the first place.  This also underestimates the MLP Forums community greatly.  I'd think / hope that reading that someone is considering or has considered suicide generally inspires sympathy, and you touched on immediacy...  Simply telling someone to seek "professional help" sounds like you're washing your hands of the situation regardless of whether they ever do.  If someone is genuinely contemplating suicide (or even on the brink of the act itself), I can't imagine a PM telling them that we at the MLP forums aren't equipped to help them is going to steer them away from whatever dark thoughts assail them.  And, seriously, deleting the very cry for help that may ultimately lead one to take their own life...  Whaaaa??!?  Really?  I'm not suicidal or anything, but if someone erased my cry for help and then cookie cutter-encouraged me to get professional help...  That would strike me as uncaring.  A silenced cry for help could well lead to a suicide note.  Seems like an awfully selfish and irresponsible policy, to me.  And I'M generally a huge misanthrope.  That should tell you something.

I understand where you're coming from, but we cannot protect a single individual's freedom of expression at the expense of the rest of the community. And, while seeing people threaten suicide is certainly not as difficult or painful as having those feelings, it's still a downer. It's not like there have been one or two isolated cases, either. This has happened a lot for a long time, and has been increasing in frequency as time goes on.

 

It certainly does inspire sympathy. It inspires sympathy in me and many, many other people. But the fact of the matter remains: we have the Life Advice board for a reason. There are people here who do not want to have to read suicide threats when they just want to come to MLPF to have fun, relax, and unwind. There are people who are more than willing to help people who have these kind of thoughts. People who seek advice and people who want to give advice can work together very well in the Life Advice board without people who don't want to have to deal with it having to do so.

 

As for it seeming dismissing to recommend someone to seek professional help, it's not. It's the truth. Only professional, licensed psychologists are truly qualified to help someone overcome suicidal thoughts. Friends can provide help and support, but professionals can provide actual psychological help on a professional level.

[RrVPfX9cPtw59FpC 1,296]

In such extreme cases, there is nothing any of us can do to help. That's when professional advice is needed. 

In such extreme cases, no one would be willing to get professional advice.

The words of a friend are more powerful than it would seem you realize.

True, but at the same time, locking their status may send them into a frenzy. And frenzied internet goers are far more likely to have rule breaking outbursts than one that just dumps onto a couple status updates. Not to mention that some users are far more susceptible to emotional instability than others. So the issue at hand, while effecting them greatly, may not be as large or traumatic as loosing a family member or loved one. The removal and locking of statuses related to such emotional instability should be handled with the upmost of delicacy, and should only be used in cases of extreme abuse, were the member is near endlessly posting negative status updates.

 

But again, if one were to remove the option for the public to view all status updates via the main page, then the public could not be effected by the large scale depression, nor those who abuse it.

NO REMOVIE DA STATUS UPDATES O_O

[Nohbdy 4,108]

True, but at the same time, locking their status may send them into a frenzy. And frenzied internet goers are far more likely to have rule breaking outbursts than one that just dumps onto a couple status updates. Not to mention that some users are far more susceptible to emotional instability than others. So the issue at hand, while effecting them greatly, may not be as large or traumatic as loosing a family member or loved one. The removal and locking of statuses related to such emotional instability should be handled with the upmost of delicacy, and should only be used in cases of extreme abuse, were the member is near endlessly posting negative status updates.

 

But again, if one were to remove the option for the public to view all status updates via the main page, then the public could not be effected by the large scale depression, nor those who abuse it.

That's a good point, actually. I can assure you that dealing with such statuses and threads will be handled with utmost care. Moreover, we typically handle incidents on a case-by-case basis, so context will definitely be considered. 

 

This announcement is essentially a set of guidelines. There's flexibility when needed. 

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,298]

Again, Life Advice. Everyone has problems, man, and sometimes people don't want to deal with other people's problems. Which is why there's an entire subforum dedicated to people posting about these problems

 

It really helps out both ends of the site - it isn't denying anyone an outlet, it's just telling them to go post in the safe, special place to post stuff of the nature that can ultimately affect the site's morale as a whole. I can understand what you mean as it being cold, but I gotta say, I feel some definitive measures need to be taken here - and there's literally a safe haven just for stuff like this on this very site

 

It isn't denying them an outlet, it's just telling them to plug in their outlet in the designated area so the whole site isn't affected by it.

I do not mean the following in a confrontational manner.  If anything, I just want it to be shared within the context of this topic:

 

I get the practicality of it.  Doesn't mean I have to like it.  And I really think contemplating suicide ought not to be referred to as a mere problem; it potentially leads to death.  Lest it be contained in quotes.  If you contract a terminal illness, no one calls it a problem.    My biological grand father hanged himself to death.  In his own home.  He was later discovered by one of his sons.  He'd had "professional" help much of his life.  Stamping something "professional" counts for absolutely bupkis.  Maybe all he needed was a reassuring word from a loved one.  Or anyone that cared about him.  Sure, some people might simply be feeling down or experiencing a wave of teenage angst...  But what if they aren't?  I'm OCD, and I will organize the HAY out of something if I "have" to.  But this strikes me as a relatively unfeeling kind of restraint that prioritizes tidiness and the feelings of non-suicidal individuals over people that might just need someone to say something at the right moment.

[RrVPfX9cPtw59FpC 1,296]

I do not mean the following in a confrontational manner.  If anything, I just want it to be shared within the context of this topic:

 

I get the practicality of it.  Doesn't mean I have to like it.  And I really think contemplating suicide ought not to be referred to as a mere problem; it potentially leads to death.  Lest it be contained in quotes.  If you contract a terminal illness, no one calls it a problem.    My biological grand father hanged himself to death.  In his own home.  He was later discovered by one of his sons.  He'd had "professional" help much of his life.  Stamping something "professional" counts for absolutely bupkis.  Maybe all he needed was a reassuring word from a loved one.  Or anyone that cared about him.  Sure, some people might simply be feeling down or experiencing a wave of teenage angst...  But what if they aren't?  I'm OCD, and I will organize the HAY out of something if I "have" to.  But this strikes me as a relatively unfeeling kind of restraint that prioritizes tidiness and the feelings of non-suicidal individuals over people that might just need someone to say something at the right moment.

I agree with almost all of what you're saying, but the power of a professional is quite great. I don't doubt their abilities. I just doubt that people will go to see them.

[SCS 7,443]

I do not mean the following in a confrontational manner.  If anything, I just want it to be shared within the context of this topic:

 

I get the practicality of it.  Doesn't mean I have to like it.  And I really think contemplating suicide ought not to be referred to as a mere problem; it potentially leads to death.  Lest it be contained in quotes.  If you contract a terminal illness, no one calls it a problem.    My biological grand father hanged himself to death.  In his own home.  He was later discovered by one of his sons.  He'd had "professional" help much of his life.  Stamping something "professional" counts for absolutely bupkis.  Maybe all he needed was a reassuring word from a loved one.  Or anyone that cared about him.  Sure, some people might simply be feeling down or experiencing a wave of teenage angst...  But what if they aren't?  I'm OCD, and I will organize the HAY out of something if I "have" to.  But this strikes me as a relatively unfeeling kind of restraint that prioritizes tidiness and the feelings of non-suicidal individuals over people that might just need someone to say something at the right moment.

 

We aren't prioritizing the feelings of non-suicidal individuals over suicidal individuals. Neither are we prioritizing the feelings of suicidal individuals over non-suicidal individuals. People who need help and support from friends can talk to them privately or seek advice in the Life Advice board without dragging down people they don't know using status updates. 

 

It's a compromise intended to be as fair as possible. It won't make everyone as happy as possible, but it's best for the community as a whole in the long-run.

 

On a personal note, I'm very sorry about what happened to your grandfather. That's just horrible.

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,298]

I agree with almost all of what you're saying, but the power of a professional is quite great. I don't doubt their abilities. I just doubt that people will go to see them.

I doubt both, personally.  For reasons I won't go into (just deleted an inconsiderate amount of text on the subject).  But, to your point, even a genuinely competent, helpful professional would be of zero benefit to someone who didn't go to see them.  So...  I'm really saying I mostly agree with you as well.

[TheDarkMysteryMan 670]

I have a professional counselor - or, used to, rather. Rares has provided me outlet enough to not need one any longer.

 

In any case, they're rather helpful and the good ones do look out for your best interests, I can speak from experience.

Furthermore, everyone's being given a chance. It's only being restricted outside of the designated sub-forum. This way, people can say what they want, and they can actively seek help, but the people who don't want to see that sort of thing don't have to.

@ghostfacekiller39

In response to this.

You have to keep in mind that very few can get a professional counselor, nevertheless a regular on who will pay attention to you when his Check is next to him.

 

Not everyone is given the luxury of a person to spill his emotions towards in their time of need. Infact, not many people can even talk to thier family members for advice.

[SCS 7,443]

I support this. Just the question of whether or not people who aren't suicidal, but merely down, are still able to call for help. I've made friends with whom I thought were strangers because of their kindness to me in these dark situations.

 

Making a status update every now and then just venting about life (as long as it's not a suicide threat) is completely fine. It only becomes a problem if someone makes constant status updates of this nature, at which point a staff member would ask them to communicate with people about this privately or in the Life Advice forum section instead.

 

That being said, just to clarify, actual suicide threats will not be allowed anywhere on the site. Asking for help with overcoming suicidal thoughts is fine, discussing suicide or suicidal thoughts in general is fine, but threatening to end your own life is not.

[RrVPfX9cPtw59FpC 1,296]

I doubt both, personally.  For reasons I won't go into (just deleted an inconsiderate amount of text on the subject).  But, to your point, even a genuinely competent, helpful professional would be of zero benefit to someone who didn't go to see them.  So...  I'm really saying I mostly agree with you as well.

Right.

Wait

What

I'm sorry, I don't understand at all xD

You agree with me, or you disagree with me?

[TheDarkMysteryMan 670]

 

Making a status update every now and then just venting about life (as long as it's not a suicide threat) is completely fine. It only becomes a problem if someone makes constant status updates of this nature, at which point a staff member would ask them to communicate with people about this privately or in the Life Advice forum section instead.

 

That being said, just to clarify, actual suicide threats will not be allowed anywhere on the site. Asking for help with overcoming suicidal thoughts is fine, discussing suicide or suicidal thoughts in general is fine, but threatening to end your own life is not.

When it's out into this way, it starts making more sense. For a second, I thought you were going to strip the word "suicide" and all the meanings here on the boards.

[RrVPfX9cPtw59FpC 1,296]

That being said, just to clarify, actual suicide threats will not be allowed anywhere on the site. Asking for help with overcoming suicidal thoughts is fine, discussing suicide or suicidal thoughts in general is fine, but threatening to end your own life is not.

So, why is "I'm going to kill myself" bad, but "I feel like I want to kill myself" not bad?

[Ziggy + Angel + Rain 11,298]

Right.

Wait

What

I'm sorry, I don't understand at all xD

You agree with me, or you disagree with me?

Forgive me, I worded it in a confusing manner.  I, too, doubt that people would go and see a professional.  And the rest was just my convoluting the post needlessly; which I am wont to do. ^^;

[TheDarkMysteryMan 670]

So, why is "I'm going to kill myself" bad, but "I feel like I want to kill myself" not bad?

Because one announces an action you plan to do, while the other is displaying your emotional stature. There's a HUGE difference. Edited June 24, 2014 by TheDarkMysteryMan

[RrVPfX9cPtw59FpC 1,296]

Forgive me, I worded it in a confusing manner.  I, too, doubt that people would go and see a professional.  And the rest was just my convoluting the post needlessly; which I am wont to do. ^^;

Ohh, okay xD

Gotcha, thanks

Convoluting is underrated. :3

Because one announces an action you plan to do, while the other is displaying your emotional stature. There's a HUGE difference.

And verbs are better than adjectives... Why?

[SCS 7,443]

So, why is "I'm going to kill myself" bad, but "I feel like I want to kill myself" not bad?

 

To be clear, I'm saying that people can ask for advice with suicidal thoughts in Life Advice. This shouldn't happen in status updates.

 

To answer your question, there is a critical difference between a feeling and a threat. Feeling like you might want to end your own life isn't as decisive, it's an emotion that can be analyzed and reasoned with without there necessarily being any immediate danger for anyone. A threat involves immediate danger for someone.

 

Additionally, there is far more stress and potential harm involved in trying to deal with a situation in which someone said "I'm about to kill myself" than a situation in which someone said "I'm depressed and I'm not sure if I want to go on with life." People who are not professional psychologists are not qualified to deal with threat situations. While people are always still welcome to seek help and support from friends privately regardless, people are not welcome to frighten and drag down people who might know them or be able to help them at all on this site.

[TheDarkMysteryMan 670]

Ohh, okay xD

Gotcha, thanks

Convoluting is underrated. :3

 

And verbs are better than adjectives... Why?

Because the verb is an action. And the adjective is describing how or what. So by saying, "I'm going to kill my self," that phrase uses a verb, which is kill. Meaning he will do it. The way of describing how you feel like killing yourself IS just a statement, not an action.

[Pastel 7,627]

Just want to say that I fully support this. The MLP forums are MLP Forums, not Life Advice Forums.

 

*back to reading*

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

To be clear, I'm saying that people can ask for advice with suicidal thoughts in Life Advice. This shouldn't happen in status updates.

 

To answer your question, there is a critical difference between a feeling and a threat. Feeling like you might want to end your own life isn't as decisive, it's an emotion that can be analyzed and reasoned with without there necessarily being any immediate danger for anyone. A threat involves immediate danger for someone.

 

Additionally, there is far more stress and potential harm involved in trying to deal with a situation in which someone said "I'm about to kill myself" than a situation in which someone said "I'm depressed and I'm not sure if I want to go on with life." People who are not professional psychologists are not qualified to deal with threat situations. While people are always still welcome to seek help and support from friends privately regardless, people are not welcome to frighten and drag down people who might know them or be able to help them at all on this site.

Just be very, very, very careful in how you handle the "banning" of suicide threats. If what you say is perceived as crass in any manner, while you may be relieving some burden from other members, if the member in question does kill themselves, and it appears as if you were crass in dealing with their threat, you may find yourself in court, and this forum under investigation.

 

While suicide threats should not be openly tolerated, simply sweeping the solution under the rug may result in a death, and possible court case.

[RrVPfX9cPtw59FpC 1,296]

Just be very, very, very careful in how you handle the "banning" of suicide threats. If what you say is perceived as crass in any manner, while you may be relieving some burden from other members, if the member in question does kill themselves, and it appears as if you were crass in dealing with their threat, you may find yourself in court, and this forum under investigation.

 

While suicide threats should not be openly tolerated, simply sweeping the solution under the rug may result in a death, and possible court case.

I'm not good with law, but are you sure that's possible?

[TheDarkMysteryMan 670]

Just be very, very, very careful in how you handle the "banning" of suicide threats. If what you say is perceived as crass in any manner, while you may be relieving some burden from other members, if the member in question does kill themselves, and it appears as if you were crass in dealing with their threat, you may find yourself in court, and this forum under investigation.

 

While suicide threats should not be openly tolerated, simply sweeping the solution under the rug may result in a death, and possible court case.

They arnt in ANYWAY liable because that's not thier job. Thier job IS to run a forum for fans of MLP, not suicide hotline. Edited June 24, 2014 by TheDarkMysteryMan

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

I'm not good with law, but are you sure that's possible?

Quite possible in todays civil court days. All they have to do is simply state that the emotional trauma of having their suicide threat dealt with in a harsh manner caused them to kill themselves, and then civil court case by the parents, bad press for the site, and investigation.

[RrVPfX9cPtw59FpC 1,296]

Quite possible in todays civil court days. All they have to do is simply state that the emotional trauma of having their suicide threat dealt with in a harsh manner caused them to kill themselves, and then civil court case by the parents, bad press for the site, and investigation.

How come 4chan hasn't been sued, then? o_0

[SCS 7,443]

Just be very, very, very careful in how you handle the "banning" of suicide threats. If what you say is perceived as crass in any manner, while you may be relieving some burden from other members, if the member in question does kill themselves, and it appears as if you were crass in dealing with their threat, you may find yourself in court, and this forum under investigation.

 

While suicide threats should not be openly tolerated, simply sweeping the solution under the rug may result in a death, and possible court case.

 

I agree completely. The staff is fully aware of how sensitive this sort of thing is and we will take more care than we already do to ensure that we say what we say with empathy, tact and diplomacy. I would want to do that simply because it is the right thing to do, with law and courtrooms being a secondary concern. Anyone with common sense has regard for human life, and we do our best to ensure that everyone we end up inviting to the staff does indeed have common sense.