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Have you ever had a lucid dream?  

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  1. 1. Have you ever had a lucid dream?



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17 minutes ago, Nico said:

I've had them a lot recently, mostly when I'm about to wake up, but I always avoid them, cause I forget how to wake up from them. I've had a sleep paralysis due to not being able to wake up from a lucid dream once. It was bad.

Now to be honest I think of my short term memory as RAM like from a computer and I'll be referring to it like that here. Anyways the problem with you not being able to wake up from lucid dreams is simply your brain doesn't have enough RAM to remember how to wake up on top of everything else in the dream. I sort of have the same problem too when it comes to controlling a dream. It's just most of your RAM is filled with information about the dream environment so there's no space left for anything else. In the end it's just a physical limitation and also I think of the brain as a biological computer so I think of everything in computer terms to simplify most of it. :) 

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1 minute ago, Techno Universal said:

Now to be honest I think of my short term memory as RAM like from a computer and I'll be referring to it like that here. Anyways the problem with you not being able to wake up from lucid dreams is simply your brain doesn't have enough RAM to remember how to wake up on top of everything else in the dream. I sort of have the same problem too when it comes to controlling a dream. It's just most of your RAM is filled with information about the dream environment so there's no space left for anything else. In the end it's just a physical limitation and also I think of the brain as a biological computer so I think of everything in computer terms to simplify most of it. :) 

Yeah, probably. It kind of takes a lot of focus to stay in that dream, and I find it scary to risk having another sleep paralysis. I guess that RAM analysis kind of makes sense:D

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14 minutes ago, Nico said:

Yeah, probably. It kind of takes a lot of focus to stay in that dream, and I find it scary to risk having another sleep paralysis. I guess that RAM analysis kind of makes sense:D

Also it's also dependent on what things your system takes priority to when your lucid dreaming. It's a part of your instinct program but I think of it as the system registry. Like for me it takes how to wake up into priority while the system is forced to exclude how to control the dream because of lack of RAM space left. :)

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I've had a lot of them, but avoid them most of the times, since it's kind of hard for me to wake up from them, I usually end up getting sleep paralyzed, which is never fun.

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  • 2 weeks later...

I lucid dream by accident all the time. They dont start out as lucid as im subject to the rules of the dream but then I start pushing the rules and even mentally trying to change the rules as im dreaming. I find im able to lucid dream for about the last half of the dream to the point I start believing its real.

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 Okay so there's lucid dreams but has anyone had a lucid nightmare before? If you don't know a lucid nightmare is a very horrifying dream that looks and feels exactly like reality and your trapped in the dream. So you can't wake up until you do something very specific plus often with lucid nightmares if you die in the dream you will also die in real life at the same time. So in the end Lucid nightmares could actually be life threatening and often people are asleep for days or weeks when they are in a lucid nightmare. :)

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3 hours ago, Techno Universal said:

 Okay so there's lucid dreams but has anyone had a lucid nightmare before? If you don't know a lucid nightmare is a very horrifying dream that looks and feels exactly like reality and your trapped in the dream. So you can't wake up until you do something very specific plus often with lucid nightmares if you die in the dream you will also die in real life at the same time. So in the end Lucid nightmares could actually be life threatening and often people are asleep for days or weeks when they are in a lucid nightmare. :)

If that were the case, then it would be an indication that the person would have a bigger medical problem. but it is very rare. I had lucid dream nightmares, where I was drowning in water, but somehow I could still breath that water, which made me lucid, once I realized I was really not drowning, but just floating in water, with no lack of breath.

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23 hours ago, Techno Universal said:

 Okay so there's lucid dreams but has anyone had a lucid nightmare before? If you don't know a lucid nightmare is a very horrifying dream that looks and feels exactly like reality and your trapped in the dream. So you can't wake up until you do something very specific plus often with lucid nightmares if you die in the dream you will also die in real life at the same time. So in the end Lucid nightmares could actually be life threatening and often people are asleep for days or weeks when they are in a lucid nightmare. :)

Give me some evidence people have died during those, that sounds unbelievable like the gimmick from The Matrix, sounds fictional. Besides if it did happen, how would we find out, cuz they would just die in their sleep due to stroke or something so even if it happened we wouldn't have evidence and without evidence you would not be able to make an accurate claim.

But I have had nightmares where I intentionally wake up to avoid them. Also dreams where I knew I was dreaming and died in them causing me to wake up. I think its influenced from gaming, like you keep going til you get game over for some of them, arcade-like. Or dying in the dream might cause enough adrenaline or such to get me up for the morning.

They say lucid dreams and nightmares tend to be in the morning, because that's when people wake up and are more likely to remember them due to waking up.

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4 minutes ago, CuriUndersXeno said:

Give me some evidence people have died during those, that sounds unbelievable like the gimmick from The Matrix, sounds fictional. Besides if it did happen, how would we find out, cuz they would just die in their sleep due to stroke or something so even if it happened we wouldn't have evidence and without evidence you would not be able to make an accurate claim.

But I have had nightmares where I intentionally wake up to avoid them. Also dreams where I knew I was dreaming and died in them causing me to wake up. I think its influenced from gaming, like you keep going til you get game over for some of them, arcade-like. Or dying in the dream might cause enough adrenaline or such to get me up for the morning.

They say lucid dreams and nightmares tend to be in the morning, because that's when people wake up and are more likely to remember them due to waking up.

To be honest there's not much evidence on Lucid nightmares but it has been linked to paranormal activity as people have only had lucid nightmares when they were sleeping in a place that was reported to be haunted. Even there was one interesting news story from the USA that took place sometime in the 90s where a 10 year old woke up from a suspected lucid nightmare to then shoot his parents and his two other brothers to death with a pistol and he then shot himself straight after. When the police arrived all five occupants of the house where found dead and the 10 year old was in the kitchen with the gun still in his hand after he had shot himself. The house was reported to be potentially haunted at the time and paranormal experts theorised that the spirit that was present in the house somehow took control over the 10 year old in his sleep and used him to kill everyone in the house including himself. The incident is still a mystery to this day and a number of very similar incidents have been taking place all around the world in recent years. But more recently they have decided to stay quiet about these incidents so they don't scare people. :)   

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1 minute ago, Techno Universal said:

To be honest there's not much evidence on Lucid nightmares but it has been linked to paranormal activity as people have only had lucid nightmares when they were sleeping in a place that was reported to be haunted. Even there was one interesting news story from the USA that took place sometime in the 90s where a 10 year old woke up from a suspected lucid nightmare to then shoot his parents and his two other brothers to death with a pistol and he then shot himself straight after. When the police arrived all five occupants of the house where found dead and the 10 year old was in the kitchen with the gun still in his hand after he had shot himself. The house was reported to be potentially haunted at the time and paranormal experts theorised that the spirit that was present in the house somehow took control over the 10 year old in his sleep and used him to kill everyone in the house including himself. The incident is still a mystery to this day and a number of very similar incidents have been taking place all around the world in recent years. But more recently they have decided to stay quiet about these incidents so they don't scare people. :)   

That might just be a creepy pasta story, but if its a real story for all we know an assassin is doing it and blaming it on the kid of all people. Or maybe the kid is abused so decided to do it. There would be no evidence for it being a lucid nightmare besides myth, because they die, so if it did or did not happen people wouldn't know. So there is no evidence for it, literally there can't be evidence for it, which means it has to be made up in the instances people claim it is a lucid nightmare. I mean sure, they could sleep walk do it or something. But that's not the same thing as a lucid nightmare. And the media would love to scare people, because it generates viewership.

And why are you smiling after, maybe you are just lying and get a kick to tell people in this thread.

Because its not happy news and you smile? Sounds dishonest to me.

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One time, a lucid dream manifested as Discord trying to teach me how to do Q stuff... and I ended up accidentally teleporting the Enterprise crew into an Alien/Xenomorph nest...

 

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I despise when this happens to me. It's a constant event too and it messes up my whole night. My main issue is the distorted nature of it all, not the odd stuff like how sensation is not quite right, and that extremities are not quite there ... it's the greater distortion of reality that Waggoner discussed. I need that like I need a hole in the head. It isn't real and it needs to stop. 

I've actually been focused on trying to stop lucid dreaming. It's not fun for this guy. 

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35 minutes ago, CuriUndersXeno said:

That might just be a creepy pasta story, but if its a real story for all we know an assassin is doing it and blaming it on the kid of all people. Or maybe the kid is abused so decided to do it. There would be no evidence for it being a lucid nightmare besides myth, because they die, so if it did or did not happen people wouldn't know. So there is no evidence for it, literally there can't be evidence for it, which means it has to be made up in the instances people claim it is a lucid nightmare. I mean sure, they could sleep walk do it or something. But that's not the same thing as a lucid nightmare. And the media would love to scare people, because it generates viewership.

Even in the past people have claimed to have even swapped bodies through lucid nightmares and a lot of them remember that towards the end of the dream they where running down a dark hallway away from a monster trying to escape the dream through the white glowing doorway in front of them. They only wake up when they reach the doorway successfully but if they get caught by whatever is chasing them they'll be trapped in the dream forever. There was one person who was escaping with his best friend and his friend got caught. He woke up remembering everything while his friend was found dead in his bed. Plus if you are unlikely enough to experience a lucid nightmare you would be literally trapped in it until you escape. And you'll die in real life if you don't make it out. But still there are not quite enough official stories on the subject for it to be considered researchable. :)

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36 minutes ago, Jeric said:

I despise when this happens to me. It's a constant event too and it messes up my whole night. My main issue is the distorted nature of it all, not the odd stuff like how sensation is not quite right, and that extremities are not quite there ... it's the greater distortion of reality that Waggoner discussed. I need that like I need a hole in the head. It isn't real and it needs to stop. 

I've actually been focused on trying to stop lucid dreaming. It's not fun for this guy. 

Odd. So you end up focusing on the nature of the dream itself, rather than taking advantage of infinite possibility so that you don't even notice or care about the flaws. Try treating it like a game or something. In fact it seems like you might only lucid dream because of your attention to detail, then you know its not real, which causes a lucid dream where you notice you are dreaming and it bothers you?

Just try and do super powers or if your hands look weird turn into someone else. Don't stop moving, keep traveling. Pretend its a self-generated VR that you can summon anything or do anything or be anywhere. Did you try that stuff before?

23 minutes ago, Techno Universal said:

Even in the past people have claimed to have even swapped bodies through lucid nightmares and a lot of them remember that towards the end of the dream they where running down a dark hallway away from a monster trying to escape the dream through the white glowing doorway in front of them. They only wake up when they reach the doorway successfully but if they get caught by whatever is chasing them they'll be trapped in the dream forever. There was one person who was escaping with his best friend and his friend got caught. He woke up remembering everything while his friend was found dead in his bed. Plus if you are unlikely enough to experience a lucid nightmare you would be literally trapped in it until you escape. And you'll die in real life if you don't make it out. But still there are not quite enough official stories on the subject for it to be considered researchable. :)

You do know some stories are fabricated too, right? And just because their friend died next to them does not mean it was a lucid nightmare that causes death, if the story is real at all (besides, there still needs to be cause of death if their friend died next to them, so what was it? Theres no diagnoses or evidence for dreaming to death). Coincidences happen especially in dreams, but he could've subconsciously noticed his friend stopped breathing as studies suggest nightmares try communicating between the subconscious and conscious mind is one scientific theory. Besides if dreams kill people I would've died dozens of times by now. Besides stories =/= evidence, blind studies with a large enough sample size is. Case studies definitely are not because they are quite easily fabricated, like haunted house stories some people admit to faking it. Same with near death stories. Some  people  just like the attention.

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2 minutes ago, CuriUndersXeno said:

Odd. So you end up focusing on the nature of the dream itself, rather than taking advantage of infinite possibility so that you don't even notice or care about the flaws. Try treating it like a game or something. In fact it seems like you might only lucid dream because of your attention to detail, then you know its not real, which causes a lucid dream where you notice you are dreaming and it bothers you?

Just try and do super powers or if your hands look weird turn into someone else. Don't stop moving, keep traveling. Pretend its a self-generated VR that you can summon anything or do anything or be anywhere. Did you try that stuff before?

You do know some stories are fabricated too, right? And just because their friend died next to them does not mean it was a lucid nightmare that causes death, if the story is real at all (besides, there still needs to be cause of death if their friend died next to them, so what was it? Theres no diagnoses or evidence for dreaming to death). Coincidences happen especially in dreams, but he could've subconsciously noticed his friend stopped breathing as studies suggest nightmares try communicating between the subconscious and conscious mind is one scientific theory. Besides if dreams kill people I would've died dozens of times by now. Besides stories =/= evidence, blind studies with a large enough sample size is. Case studies definitely are not because they are quite easily fabricated, like haunted house stories some people admit to faking it. Same with near death stories. Some  people  just like the attention.

To be honest there is a brain function that's known as self suicide and literally it's when the body kills itself over something but most commonly it's from drug dependence when the addict dose not take the desired drug for a long period. Apparently when people die from lucid nightmares this protocol is somehow triggered in the brain and because it creates a muscle and nerve destroyer neurotoxin in the process there's no way to revive someone once this function is triggered. But still likely lucid nightmares are actually extremely rare and on average only 2-10 people have lucid nightmares worldwide every year.  

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Just now, Techno Universal said:

To be honest there is a brain function that's known as self suicide and literally it's when the body kills itself over something but most commonly it's from drug dependence when the addict dose not take the desired drug for a long period. Apparently when people die from lucid nightmares this protocol is somehow triggered in the brain and because it creates a muscle and nerve destroyer neurotoxin in the process there's no way to revive someone once this function is triggered. But still likely lucid nightmares are actually extremely rare and on average only 2-10 people have lucid nightmares worldwide every year.  

Drug dependence is because of psychological changes and breathing is controlled by the brain as an instinct. You would need brain damage or something else to cause people such an issue, in which case lucid nightmares are a side effect not a cause. Like runny nose isn't an illness, its a symptom of the illness. But if that's a real average surely you can link me to where you found those numbers out?

And even then it'd be death by suffocation or neurological degeneracy causing rage or psychotic behavior or malformed sleep-walking, it would never professionally be called or have evidence for the concept of lucid nightmares. Like pirates of the caribean. One person said, those pirates leave no survivors. Then Sparrow said where do the stories come from then if there are no survivors? Similarly if one has a lucid nightmare and dies, there can be no evidence. And if one has a nightmare or night-terror and lives, its not evidence that lucid nightmares are even a lethal thing.

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Just now, CuriUndersXeno said:

Drug dependence is because of psychological changes and breathing is controlled by the brain as an instinct. You would need brain damage or something else to cause people such an issue, in which case lucid nightmares are a side effect not a cause. Like runny nose isn't an illness, its a symptom of the illness. But if that's a real average surely you can link me to where you found those numbers out?

I believe I got all of this information from a detailed YouTube video that I came across a couple of years ago. So I could link you to the video but still this whole topic is just something that's roaming around in my memory so it's obvious that I wouldn't remember what video I watched if it's been over two years and I wach new videos on YouTube every single day. :) 

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Just now, Techno Universal said:

I believe I got all of this information from a detailed YouTube video that I came across a couple of years ago. So I could link you to the video but still this whole topic is just something that's roaming around in my memory so it's obvious that I wouldn't remember what video I watched if it's been over two years and I wach new videos on YouTube every single day. :) 

True. But if its say, 'spirit science' or something similar its a sham honestly. Sounds like they wanted to share some spooky stories because people enjoy those, sorta like creepy pasta videos. Or if there might be minor potential evidence, its usually like not really an occurrence and is usually fabricated outside the video or is a misunderstanding, or if people are selling a book about it its usually bogus as well. Because it means they got all that attention to sell a book for money. Youtube has its own financial incentives, there are plenty of dishonest channels out there and some that abuse click-bait and such. Topics that make people scared turn up more people, like how the news works. If people are scared they get personally invested into finding out more to prevent their danger. This appeals to that because 'gee I could die in my sleep at any time!' would scare some people. And those it doesn't scare theres a sorta dark curiosity people can have also so are curious about it. Now if we had a real lucid dreaming video with techniques, it quickly becomes technical and loses people who don't have a good attention span or if it doesn't come off as entertaining. It sounds like a boring lecture, why do that when you can hear about crazy things like astral projection(which is only a dream but taking place cognitively alternatively or in a manner that makes you suspect its real., because no evidence has been found for astral projection that wasn't false or exaggerated Like one story about a lady seeing a red shoe in her death bed after floating up, the red shoe on the roof, was actually visible from the window and wasn't the roof directly above her, sensationalism just twisted it around and people have installed photos that people cannot see unless they float, so if they describe those accurately then its determined they are telling the truth, and they found how to cause out of body experiences and not one could say what was in the photos.). A good way to make sure someone is telling the truth, or not, is to ask and check for sources of information then see if you can find anything wrong with it. Like one guy toting the out of body experience stuff was selling a book, and has 'unreleased' evidence he suggests strongly is true, but nothing more. Or the study was done improperly in which case you need to take the time to analyze how the study actually works to see if its messed up or not, and even then they could simply lie about the results to make it look real which is why we do peer reviewed studies, and the peer review studies tend to show its not so for questionable things. Not to be a party pooper or anything I am just concerned how readily you believe sketchy stuff.

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20 minutes ago, CuriUndersXeno said:

Drug dependence is because of psychological changes and breathing is controlled by the brain as an instinct. You would need brain damage or something else to cause people such an issue, in which case lucid nightmares are a side effect not a cause. Like runny nose isn't an illness, its a symptom of the illness. But if that's a real average surely you can link me to where you found those numbers out?

And even then it'd be death by suffocation or neurological degeneracy causing rage or psychotic behavior or malformed sleep-walking, it would never professionally be called or have evidence for the concept of lucid nightmares. Like pirates of the caribean. One person said, those pirates leave no survivors. Then Sparrow said where do the stories come from then if there are no survivors? Similarly if one has a lucid nightmare and dies, there can be no evidence. And if one has a nightmare or night-terror and lives, its not evidence that lucid nightmares are even a lethal thing.

Agreed. I'll need to delve into my old medical texts, but for now I'll simply say 

LaBerge, Stephen, et al. “Lucid Dreaming: Physiological Correlates of Consciousness during REM Sleep.” The Journal of Mind and Behavior, vol. 7, no. 2/3, 1986, pp. 251–258. JSTOR, www.jstor.org/stable/43853217.
 
I have many others that support lucid dreaming, and all tie it to actual physiology --- and in all my studies I've yet to read about a kill switch in the brain (unless he was referring to caspase-9 incorrectly). 
 
.... 
 
To answer your other question about why I dislike lucid dreaming, it isn't a good idea for me. While having this happen inadvertently after losing someone close to you can actually help others receive closure, it does the opposite for me. Seeing and hearing my wife in my dreams is very ... hard. And before someone says anything ... no it isn't actually her. I have a hard time swallowing that. 
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7 minutes ago, Jeric said:
To answer your other question about why I dislike lucid dreaming, it isn't a good idea for me. While having this happen inadvertently after losing someone close to you can actually help others receive closure, it does the opposite for me. Seeing and hearing my wife in my dreams is very ... hard.

Oh that does make sense then. Like, if you did somehow find a way to enjoy lucid dreams she might be the topic then you would hate reality in comparison(if you took advantage of the fact she was in your dreams) and might actually end up worse. But I guess you do specifically mention how wrong it seems, Perhaps you already tried to enjoy the lucid dream her but it came off as surreal or uncanny, so its impossible. Reminds me of a villain's back story in Majin Tantei Nougami Neuro manga (the manga is far superior to the anime). The villain wanted to recreate his wife as an ai. Then he uploaded his brain then it killed him upon realizing their dream would not become recognized, and that it was for his own good(he was stuck in denial). Then it tried world domination because why not lol.

Edited by CuriUndersXeno
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6 minutes ago, CuriUndersXeno said:

True. But if its say, 'spirit science' or something similar its a sham honestly. Sounds like they wanted to share some spooky stories because people enjoy those, sorta like creepy pasta videos. Or if there might be minor potential evidence, its usually like not really an occurrence and is usually fabricated outside the video or is a misunderstanding, or if people are selling a book about it its usually bogus as well. Because it means they got all that attention to sell a book for money. Youtube has its own financial incentives, there are plenty of dishonest channels out there and some that abuse click-bait and such. Topics that make people scared turn up more people, like how the news works. If people are scared they get personally invested into finding out more to prevent their danger. This appeals to that because 'gee I could die in my sleep at any time!' would scare some people. And those it doesn't scare theres a sorta dark curiosity people can have also so are curious about it. Now if we had a real lucid dreaming video with techniques, it quickly becomes technical and loses people who don't have a good attention span or if it doesn't come off as entertaining. It sounds like a boring lecture, why do that when you can hear about crazy things like astral projection(which is only a dream but taking place cognitively alternatively or in a manner that makes you suspect its real., because no evidence has been found for astral projection that wasn't false or exaggerated Like one story about a lady seeing a red shoe in her death bed after floating up, the red shoe on the roof, was actually visible from the window and wasn't the roof directly above her, sensationalism just twisted it around and people have installed photos that people cannot see unless they float, so if they describe those accurately then its determined they are telling the truth, and they found how to cause out of body experiences and not one could say what was in the photos.). A good way to make sure someone is telling the truth, or not, is to ask and check for sources of information then see if you can find anything wrong with it. Like one guy toting the out of body experience stuff was selling a book, and has 'unreleased' evidence he suggests strongly is true, but nothing more. Or the study was done improperly in which case you need to take the time to analyze how the study actually works to see if its messed up or not, and even then they could simply lie about the results to make it look real which is why we do peer reviewed studies, and the peer review studies tend to show its not so for questionable things. Not to be a party pooper or anything I am just concerned how readily you believe sketchy stuff.

To be honest even though they claimed to get the information from offical news articles that they linked in the video there still is a slight chance that it's fake because of companies like ABC and CNN creating fake topics and doing everything they can to prove that it's real so they don't have to admit that it's all fake. But still the 3AM evil Siri scheme on the internet is very likely real because of the high amounts of YouTubers that are making it look real. It's possible to make it look real though advanced editing but still because a number of new teen YouTubers are doing videos on is to that just puts the chances of it being real up. Because I have the ability os sensing spirits and their energy I can literally say that it's close to 100% real as I literally sense an evil presence in my IPad when I wach those 3AM Siri videos. Even I'm scared to be awake at 3AM and there's a lot more random creaking in our house than normal at 3AM plus talking to Siri at 3AM is the stupidest thing I could do at this point. :) 

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Just now, Techno Universal said:

To be honest even though they claimed to get the information from offical news articles that they linked in the video there still is a slight chance that it's fake because of companies like ABC and CNN creating fake topics and doing everything they can to prove that it's real so they don't have to admit that it's all fake. But still the 3AM evil Siri scheme on the internet is very likely real because of the high amounts of YouTubers that are making it look real. It's possible to make it look real though advanced editing but still because a number of new teen YouTubers are doing videos on is to that just puts the chances of it being real up. Because I have the ability os sensing spirits and their energy I can literally say that it's close to 100% real as I literally sense an evil presence in my IPad when I wach those 3AM Siri videos. Even I'm scared to be awake at 3AM and there's a lot more random creaking in our house than normal at 3AM plus talking to Siri at 3AM is the stupidest thing I could do at this point. :) 

The brain is not smart subconsciously speaking. It has operant and classical conditioning which may very well just be you associating your phone with siri due to the videos and talking to siri. Its like a Ouija board, bias/placebo leads into confirmation bias leads into belief leads into feedback psychologically. The problem is from not using deduction, and from using induction. Here is am example 'Siri might be evil, lets see how she is evil *sees video, evil is confirmed*' That's an example of induction. An example of deduction is working backwards. Like, you take the result (youtubers claiming its evil) and work backwards from there. We can ask, what motivates youtubers? Attention causes growth, growth means more money and views means more money, so it works short term and long term to lie about it to make it more interesting. That leads into the result of 'hey guys siri is like totally evil n stuff', it worked backwards, its deduction. The problem with deduction is it depends on your problem solving skills and memory, and the problem with induction is blind trust and confirmation bias. To explain confirmation bias, its when we make the mistake of confirming our answers then thinking its all the evidence we need. Like, I ask if Siri is evil, siri brings up evil topics, therefore siri is evil. Um, it probably only brought up evil topics (result, then cause (deduction)) because you asked if it was evil? Or like, Siri is monotone, it creeps you out because of psychological priming https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Priming_(psychology) you were told she is creepy n evil, so you see if she is creepy and evil subconsciously, so you without realizing it are on the lookout for her acting or seeming evil. And she is monotone and stuff, its creepy to people more naturally like how dolls can be creepy to people, because it resembles humans but is not one, some people are doll phobic for example. Then it just leads into 'oh god she is so evil you can tell' when theres no tangible evidence even remotely suggesting its evil empirically.

Also the nurse doctor priming example, instinct is faster processed (fear) than logic, because the frontal and prefrontal cortex take longer to reach the brain stem, so in times of 'danger' the brain is less logical and more instinctual, which means its easier to see how its evil because it promotes fear rather than logic, when you are primed to be afraid.

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