#LikeAGirl

[Fractured 2,683]

Well, I totally understand where you're coming from.  I myself don't actually say either phrase.  But, I'm just saying, I'm not bothered when I hear others say them.  But yes, generalizations are, ipso facto, fallacious.

 

Well, you're kind of wrong, seeing as, the term "boy" is not equivalent to the term "man" - and thus, "boys will be boys" is not applicable to 25 year olds (or really, any male of the age 21 or older).  And, when did I ever talk about "accumulation of behaviors"?  I didn't.  I really don't know where you were coming from there.  

Also, I don't really care where it (chivalry) came from.  Because, we don't use it in such a way to mean that they can't take care of themselves.  That's preposterous.  It is not male-centric at all.  Maybe thousands of years ago.  But the point is, it corresponds specifically to the person utilizing the actions, and what they feel they are doing when they act chivalrous.  You can argue with me all you want, but you've got no chance arguing with the traditional/country culture I grew up in and still live in.  We are taught to be mannerly.  It is a display of respect to be chivalrous.  NOT being chivalrous is DISrespectful where I live.  

I suppose not... but being nice or civil is the same things without male-centered undertones. These allow for things like men to be chivalrous towards men, or women to be chivalrous towards men/women, without it being tied with something that is exclusively from males to females.

[Miles 2,512]

Why is this the case? They don't treat people fairly.

I know that I'm going to sound the odd one out, especially being here on MLPforums (and, I promise, I am a nice, caring, sympathetic person)... But, I think people who can't dismiss these things simply as fallacious and just turn the other cheek are a bit over-dramatic.  

 

I myself wouldn't ever say "like a girl" because of the fact that it's a fallacy.  And, being a country boy, I've heard many a fellow use the phrase "boys will be boys," including my own mother.  As to which, it was only stated in a light and humorous manner.  Why should that be offensive?

 

I find it humorously surprising that there are such big differences in my traditional country culture as compared to big city culture.  I guess being surrounded by corn isolates us more than I realized   ...

I suppose not... but being nice or civil is the same things without male-centered undertones. These allow for things like men to be chivalrous towards men, or women to be chivalrous towards men/women, without it being tied with something that is exclusively from males to females.

Now you're talkin'!  I absolutely agree with you there   ... 

 

However, I must say that, those such things couldn't actually be called chivalrous.  That's just being polite, mannerly, and respectful.  Chivalry will continue being defined as a male doing a good manner for a female.  Why is that so bad?  I honestly, truly don't know why.

[Zygen 6,065]

I loved this video. I identified with it a lot, and it even had me tearing up a bit. It makes me sad that, at some point in their upbringing, young girls learn that they ought to be ashamed of their own gender. I remember feeling that way as a girl - like being a girl was something I had to apologize for.

 

It's true that the phrase "like a girl" is said to men and boys in order to belittle and harass them, which is not ok at all. No sort of gendered harassment is ok. But the true problem is that the insult is inherently misogynistic. When you say that phrase to a boy in order to make some cheap attack against his masculinity, not only do boys learn that being feminine is shameful, but girls overhear it and also learn that being feminine is shameful. Everyone learns that to be "like a girl" means to be weak, silly, stupid, and laughable. In turn, girls start to see themselves as simply weak, silly, stupid, and laughable.

 

I'm all for breaking down this stereotype. It doesn't matter if you throw a million scientific facts my way saying, "But science says girls are generally weaker than men, therefore it's okay!!!" So what? Girls being generally smaller doesn't mean they can't be strong, smart, athletic, brave, etc and therefore deserve to have their gender used as a socially-accepted insult... and besides, constantly telling women and girls that they are weak doesn't do anyone any favors. We should be about uplifting people, not bringing people down.

 

And just to chime in further one some of the discussion that's gone on - I don't think "like a girl" is comparable to "boys will be boys." "Boys will be boys" is almost always used in a loving kind of way, like the boy who prompted the phrase is being charming or cute. For example, when a young male toddler accidentally knocks a lamp over or something, his parent might giggle and be like, "Boys will be boys I suppose!" The phrase is always used to excuse the boys' actions, make his actions seem endearing, and encourage the behavior further. Never is "like a girl" used in this way. No one ever tells someone, "Aww, you run like a girl!" in an attempt to be loving - it's always to be rude or belittling. For the record, I think both of the phrases are ridiculous and based on gendered stereotypes that end up harming people in the longrun, but it's important to make that distinction between the positive and negative connotations.

I personally don't quite like the video as some of it felt a bit, forced, but I still agree with most of your points regardless.

 

And it's true, while scientifically speaking men tend to get more muscle mass naturally, or women may develop social skills faster, it doesn't mean that "Oh women will always be better socially, or men will always be stronger" I mean I know plenty of women who could beat the crap out of me if they wanted. Same with guys of course, but regardless. 

 

While in certain cases some things may be affected by gender, it isn't defined by it, the distinction between these two things is important.

 

It's kind of like comparing natural talent, to actual skill level. 

 

While people can have natural talent in some field, and maybe pick up on things better or already have an affinity for something naturally, it doesn't mean they will always be better than someone with less talent. Because while talent can help, hard work can easily surpass people who rely to much on raw natural talent. I like to think of talent as a head start, so someone with talent for something may have a higher skill level to begin with, but with work the person with less natural talent can improve with practice and surpass the one with the natural talent.

 

There was a video explaining talent and it's affect on skill or something I saw once, which explained this whole talent thing better than I can, but I can't remember where it is, so hopefully my explanation makes atleast some sense.

 

Regardless I can't really see much good coming from gender stereotyped phrases frankly.

 

And I kind of agree with you to an extent on the comparison of "boys will be boys" to "like a girl", however while it's true it's typically used without ill intentions, thinking about it, the generalization that all boys are meant to act in a manner that is akin to what happens when people say "boys will be boys" is still a generalization that can be taken offensively. Maybe the intentions aren't ill, but it can still have the negative connotation. 

 

There are of course times where it is used negatively, like sometimes with girls when they see a guy do something they find stupid or something of the such, and they say "boys will be boys". 

 

I guess I agree that I wouldn't compare them as the exact same phrase, but they can still be similar to an extent.

 

So I guess it can be used both ways, and it depends upon how you take it, I'm a bit torn on it frankly. But I don't see a lot of good coming from "like a girl" for either men or women, even if it doesn't offend everyone, i can't see it helping anyone.

 

That's just my opinion though, I respect if you have a different one, we both have different perspectives and the such I'm sure. 

 

For the most part I still think I agree with you though.

Okay, just for the record here:

 

On average, women ARE more emotional than men. This is an accepted fact. This is not to say that women can't be emotionless, or men can't be overly emotional. What it means is that your typical woman is more emotional than your typical man, statistically speaking. According to neuroscience, this holds true.

 

http://www.scientificamerican.com/article/girl-brain-boy-brain/

 

What's in question is whether it's biological or cultural. Is it natural, or is it something we're taught by society?

I feel like it's been mostly taught by society, since from birth many men(Myself included) are taught that crying, and other emotions, are not really something we should do show. Crying especially is considered as bad typically by most parents when addressing their boys. However, with girls it may not be seen as much as bad, because girls typically don't get the same kind of treatment, while they aren't always encouraged to necessarily express their emotions, they are atleast not typically told not to show your emotions either.

 

And it really just gets worse as time goes on and the boys are exposed to more boys who slowly grow into considering emotions weak and even going as far as to insult those who express emotions, as if emotions are a terrible thing that should never be expressed. 

 

Girls on the other hand typically get around other girls who will embrace their emotions themselves, and the emotions of their peers, such as when girls cry and they're other friends comfort them, where as a guy would mostlikely be shunned or ignored if they cried. 

 

Maybe it's been ingrained enough that it may have even somehow started to even become biologically ingrained with to an extent, it's possible I suppose. 

 

I feel like regardless of the true cause, changing the culture to be more accepting of men with emotion will result in men expressing more emotion, or just having more emotion in general. 

 

Changing it might be quite the process though.

[Fractured 2,683]

I know that I'm going to sound the odd one out, especially being here on MLPforums (and, I promise, I am a nice, caring, sympathetic person)... But, I think people who can't dismiss these things simply as fallacious and just turn the other cheek are a bit over-dramatic.  

 

I myself wouldn't ever say "like a girl" because of the fact that it's a fallacy.  And, being a country boy, I've heard many a fellow use the phrase "boys will be boys," including my own mother.  As to which, it was only stated in a light and humorous manner.  Why should that be offensive?

 

I find it humorously surprising that there are such big differences in my traditional country culture as compared to big city culture.  I guess being surrounded by corn isolates us more than I realized   ...

Now you're talkin'!  I absolutely agree with you there   ... 

 

However, I must say that, those such things couldn't actually be called chivalrous.  That's just being polite, mannerly, and respectful.  Chivalry will continue being defined as a male doing a good manner for a female.  Why is that so bad?  I honestly, truly don't know why.

Bad? No... there's nothing wrong with being chivalrous, on the contrary! It just leaves people out, there's not an equivalent word for women,for instance. Although, I suppose that's a a bit nitpicky, it's not something that people should/would really be complaining about.

[Silver Letter 1,830]

 

 

As to which, it was only stated in a light and humorous manner.

At best, it is a double standard. Masculine identity is good. Feminine identity is bad. It is an idea that is pushed regardless of the intent of the person using the phrase. Boys learn to express themselves more and it also supports stereotypes just like other phrases manage to accomplish.

[Miles 2,512]

I loved this video. I identified with it a lot, and it even had me tearing up a bit. It makes me sad that, at some point in their upbringing, young girls learn that they ought to be ashamed of their own gender. I remember feeling that way as a girl - like being a girl was something I had to apologize for.

 

It's true that the phrase "like a girl" is said to men and boys in order to belittle and harass them, which is not ok at all. No sort of gendered harassment is ok. But the true problem is that the insult is inherently misogynistic. When you say that phrase to a boy in order to make some cheap attack against his masculinity, not only do boys learn that being feminine is shameful, but girls overhear it and also learn that being feminine is shameful. Everyone learns that to be "like a girl" means to be weak, silly, stupid, and laughable. In turn, girls start to see themselves as simply weak, silly, stupid, and laughable.

 

I'm all for breaking down this stereotype. It doesn't matter if you throw a million scientific facts my way saying, "But science says girls are generally weaker than men, therefore it's okay!!!" So what? Girls being generally smaller doesn't mean they can't be strong, smart, athletic, brave, etc and therefore deserve to have their gender used as a socially-accepted insult... and besides, constantly telling women and girls that they are weak doesn't do anyone any favors. We should be about uplifting people, not bringing people down.

 

And just to chime in further one some of the discussion that's gone on - I don't think "like a girl" is comparable to "boys will be boys." "Boys will be boys" is almost always used in a loving kind of way, like the boy who prompted the phrase is being charming or cute. For example, when a young male toddler accidentally knocks a lamp over or something, his parent might giggle and be like, "Boys will be boys I suppose!" The phrase is always used to excuse the boys' actions, make his actions seem endearing, and encourage the behavior further. Never is "like a girl" used in this way. No one ever tells someone, "Aww, you run like a girl!" in an attempt to be loving - it's always to be rude or belittling. For the record, I think both of the phrases are ridiculous and based on gendered stereotypes that end up harming people in the longrun, but it's important to make that distinction between the positive and negative connotations.

I only just now saw this... I wish I had seen your post earlier, because now I've realized something I was inherently taking for granted, and I feel like an arse for doing so: I'm a guy... So, I can't know what it feels like to be a girl and hear someone say "like a girl" - so for this, I sincerely apologize, deeply and truly.

 

Now I realize that I wasn't even qualified to act so dismissing of the phrase.  

 

And, I'm glad you brought up "When you say that phrase to a boy in order to make some cheap attack against his masculinity, not only do boys learn that being feminine is shameful, but girls overhear it and also learn that being feminine is shameful" because that is something I get *apples* for myself.  Being a sensitive guy, I have been 'put down' for showing femininity by other guys.  Though, I normally just turn the other cheek, or possibly say something to defend myself that is kind of unrelated but still gets them to shutup.  So, I know how that goes.

 

I think your absolutely right about the fact that girls can be strong, smart, athletic, brave, etc.  And, to cover anything possibly misinterpreted from previous posts of mine, I've never said or thought of women as weak.  In fact, back when my father and I used to do Tae-Kwon-Do (years ago), when our first instructor left (a guy), our new one was a women... and when my dad had to spar with her to rank up (she, being a black belt; dad being either a green belt advancing to blue, or blue advancing to red) my dad underestimated her, and he got his arse whooped!  Though he did well enough to show his skills had advanced, and was ranked up.

 

Lastly, alot of the reason I thought comparing "boys will be boys" to "like a girl" would be nearly equivalent is because I've heard the phrase "boys will be boys" used in both light manners as well as negative manners.  Because, in my opinion, "boys will be boys" is not applicable to merely breaking a lamp, as that would be "kids will be kids" - which considers any gender.  But now I see that it ("boys will be boys") is much less of an offensive thing to say than "like a girl."

 

I blame the corn for isolating me! 

[crisahys 149]

I think the thing with "___ like a girl" may be mean to those who thought of girls as weak, but I would come up with a clever response by posting videos of a bodybuilding woman and say, "You mean like this girl? I bet she's stronger than you. I want to run and hit like her." Now how's that for a turn around?

 

[XxConfusedUnicornxX 832]

I think the thing with "___ like a girl" may be mean to those who thought of girls as weak, but I would come up with a clever response by posting videos of a bodybuilding woman and say, "You mean like this girl? I bet she's stronger than you. I want to run and hit like her." Now how's that for a turn around?

Bodybuilders O_O Girls shouldn't be sad that someone said they run or swim like a girl because THEY ARE girls. XD

[Hive King 1,998]

@@XxConfusedUnicornxX,@@crisahys,

Poor example considering the amount of steroids going around.

 

BTW, strength wise, body builders aren't too much compared to actual weight lifters 

[Justin_Case001 4,855]

I think that most often when someone makes the "like a girl" comparisson today, it's just a stupid joke and not meant to be taken seriously.  Like all jokes, it's not really a problem in the right company, if everyone knows it's not serious, but the fact is that implication is certainly insulting.  It's just an outdated stereotype.  Sexual/gender stereotypes need to be erased forever.

[Sceethe 704]

oldest stereotype of our society.

 

just guess what i think of stereotypes in general.

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

Oh there's a thread for this! This video is stupid imo. I have never heard anyone say "like a girl" to a girl. I've only ever heard guys say it to guys. Regardless, I fail to see how this destroys a girl's self-confidence (it's almost as stupid as the whole #banbossy campaign). I think it's worth noting that it is a fact that females are weaker than males. The phrase as I understand it is not made to put down women, it is used to tease men who underperform in physical activities. It does not and has never bothered me in in the slightest to be told this.

[FlitterFlutter 1,568]

I think it's just an insult, nothing more. The only reasoning behind it is because....

 

ALERT, VIEWER DISCRETION IS ADVISED!

 

Women are weaker than men typically. At the very best, optimal conditions, the man will be stronger and faster. On average, men are more athletic. This isn't a rule, but it is a trend. It's kind of like how most Asian people are short.

 

 

 

Do cite where most men they are superior. Please, do tell

 

 

That's a matter of endurance, strength has nothing to do with it. Strength of character maybe, but not strength

 

 

Depends on the girl. Some girls don't go through that much

 

 

That's a huge fucking stereotype that pisses me off.

"Oh, men aren't as emotional, heartbreak doesn't affect them as much or lower their self esteem"

 

If you want equality for women, cool, I like that too. But don't step on other people because you can't come up with any facts

Thank you so much dude. You took the words right out of my mouth, I was just about to type something very similar.

[XxConfusedUnicornxX 832]

Oh there's a thread for this! This video is stupid imo. I have never heard anyone say "like a girl" to a girl. I've only ever heard guys say it to guys. Regardless, I fail to see how this destroys a girl's self-confidence (it's almost as stupid as the whole #banbossy campaign). I think it's worth noting that it is a fact that females are weaker than males. The phrase as I understand it is not made to put down women, it is used to tease men who underperform in physical activities. It does not and has never bothered me in in the slightest to be told this.

Maybe the phrase doesn't bother you but it bothers others. 'Like a girl' is like telling a girl she's weak. And sometimes if you tell a girl 'she runs like a girl' she might take it too seriously. The phrase mostly affects boys though.

[LZRD WZRD 1,929]

It is an insult that became as such do to the natural genetic differences in body strength between male and females. Humanity is a sexually dimorphic species, so while insulting the other gender for its differences should not be allowed, this whole "all people are made 100% equal" bs is getting annoying, and has no basis in human biology.

 

And honestly, this just seems like another video made to stir up shit, just like the #banbossy. It is nothing more than hashtag activism, and it will not result in any positive changes to social gender equality.

Couldn't have said it any better myself. #banbossy was much stupider in my opinion, but like that, this will not result in anything positive and the whole everyone is equal thing is really annoying too. It is a fact that males are generally stronger than females, due to the fact that humans are, as you said, a sexually dimorphic species.

[M'aiq the Liar 5,804]

Couldn't have said it any better myself. #banbossy was much stupider in my opinion, but like that, this will not result in anything positive and the whole everyone is equal thing is really annoying too. It is a fact that males are generally stronger than females, due to the fact that humans are, as you said, a sexually dimorphic species.

Yea, like most campaigns of this nature, it will only stir up shit, get a few tumblr blogs going, and then fade into nothing in 3 weeks.