MLP Timeline Discussion

[Abia 258]

we don't know how long unicorns live. Because they're overtly magical beings, I'd bet even Hasbro would be willing to give them a pass in terms of lifespan. It's pretty much taken for granted that alicorns are immortal; making unicorns obscenely long-lived wouldn't be too much of a stretch. Even during the Dream Valley climate crisis, you wouldn't see an awful lot of unicorns dying unless they starved or froze to death.

 

I don't think we can assume that Unicorns have a longer lifespan than Pegasi or Earth ponies. Star Swirl was supposedly around to mentor Clover the Clever when Equestria was first founded, and was still around to assist Luna and Celestia hundreds of years later, even becoming Celestia's apprentice at some point (this was mentioned in the show, yes?). If Star Swirl is born in 1260, he is also around in 3342, when Equestria is founded, because he was there to help Luna and Celestia.

Smart Cookie was also mentioned in the princesses' diary in addition to Princess Platinum. All ponies in Hearth's Warming Eve appeared to be about the same age, with the exception of Platinum, Puddinghead, and Hurricane, who were likely a bit older than their advisors. Assuming this, we can assume that Platinum, Puddinghead, and Hurricane were born around the same time, before Clover the Clever, and were still alive hundreds of years later when Luna and Celestia were appointed leaders.

A lot of this is based on assumptions, but I do think that all ponies have similar lifespans, with the exception of naturally born Alicorns. (I do think it was confirmed that Twilight would not outlive her friends, meaning either unnatural Alicorns do not have unlimited lifespans or the rest of the mane six would become Alicorns alongside her. I really, really hope it's the former.)

 

I wonder if anyone's chalked up Granny Smith being present for the founding of Ponyville and Ponyville being founded "hundreds of years ago" to Granny Smith simply growing delirious with age?

[sweetolebob18 724]

Since my earlier post, I've been thinking about this.  It occurs to me, There were 5 English King Georges, 8 Henrys, & the French had 18(?) King Louis & I disremember how many Henrys.  Are you SURE there was only 1 Starswirl?

 

Back in my hippy-dippy days, I was somewhat into Alchemy (useful for Dungeons & Dragons).  Western Alchemy was founded by a man named Hermes Trimegeistes.  It is hard to tell exactly what he did because a LOT of later alchemists used his name when publishing their work.  They felt this gave their ideas more credibility.

 

Perhaps Starswirl is the same? Maybe other wizards used his name to gain his street cred?  & Now it is hard to tell the original from the copy cats.  (Nobody ever thinks of the poor historians before they pull this crap, do they?)

 

As to timelines.  AFAIK, the Jews start their calendar with the day they believe God created the Earth.  This is sensible because it eliminates the confusion of negative numbers & the BC - AD crap.

[keidachan 48]

Since my earlier post, I've been thinking about this.  It occurs to me, There were 5 English King Georges, 8 Henrys, & the French had 18(?) King Louis & I disremember how many Henrys.  Are you SURE there was only 1 Starswirl?

 

Back in my hippy-dippy days, I was somewhat into Alchemy (useful for Dungeons & Dragons).  Western Alchemy was founded by a man named Hermes Trimegeistes.  It is hard to tell exactly what he did because a LOT of later alchemists used his name when publishing their work.  They felt this gave their ideas more credibility.

 

Perhaps Starswirl is the same? Maybe other wizards used his name to gain his street cred?  & Now it is hard to tell the original from the copy cats.  (Nobody ever thinks of the poor historians before they pull this crap, do they?)

 

while it seems plausible at first glance when compared to history we have to consider that Celestia and Luna are much older than even starswirl meaning they must have met the original given how Luna mentions she knows him in the nightmare nights episode and the comics (I'll grudgingly accept this as cannon as much of what else happens in some of the comics goes against cannon as far as I can see) show that Luna and Celestia know him well, originally one would not think this a problem as they could know all the starswirls but if you consider how often starswirl is portrayed to have done something you think they would have spoken up or at least had each starswirl look different in the books and stained glass, not even in the comics does his design stray from a pale stallion with a long white beard, might be a bit difficult for a bunch of stallions to look that was in a place where ponies can be any color in the rainbow.

[AmberDust 1,116]

Hello everypony!

A lot of people have been trying to find a proper timeline of Equestrian history, but because of limited access to resources (like the books, which are sometimes canon), and animation/ story oversights, (like the Celestia/Luna banner in Hearth's Warming Eve,) there's been a lot of confusion.

 

I'd like to try and rally together some ponies who DO have access to these things and discuss the timeline--figure out what's canon and what's not, by using Logic, Knowledge, Precision, and Imagination.

So, I'll start us off with the basics. I'll change it as new info comes in.

 

0. Luna and Celestia are born.

1. Pre-hearths warming-- the tribes are separate. The moon and sun are the responsibility of Star Swirl and other unicorns (according to the journal of the two sisters).

2. Hearths warming-- Equestria is formed and the tribes are united. The tree of Harmony begins to sprout, and the two Sisters are crowned (although they don't rule anything yet), and they meet Star Swirl the bearded.

3. Discord's rule-- disharmony returns amongst the now-united tribes, and Discord is born

4. The sisters rise-- Celestia and Luna (who were born as Alicorn royals, but perhaps just figureheads at the time) stand up to Discord and take over, using the newly discovered elements of Harmony. He two take over as rulers.

5. The crystal empire vanishes (1000 years ago, I think)

6. Luna is corrupted, then banished. Celestia now holds all the elements.

7. Where our story begins--Luna returns

8. The elements of Harmony gain new weilders, and their bonds to the princesses are severed.

9. Discord's spell is broken...but that doesn't last long.

10. The crystal empire resurfaces, and Sombra is defeated. Also there's a royal wedding. Woo.

11. A new princess is crowned. (Fawst states Twilight was supposed to be Celestia's heir, but as of yet she doesn't really rule anything. Hopefully season 5 will clear things up.)

12. Tirek escapes and is defeated

13. Twilight is officially crowned Princess of Friendship.

 

Let's add to this as much as we can, and try to clear up some speculation. With some work, we can baptise an agreed-upon timeline amongst fans.

What are your thoughts?

 

And before it comes up, Discord isn't Star Swirl. The makers of the show have already told us.

Edited December 12, 2014 by AmberDust

[Jeric 46,834]

There is already and engaging topic on the Equestrian Timeline. I located it by just searching 'Timeline' in the search window. 

 

[EDIT]

 

Merged the thread instead. The organic nature of these discussions makes it near impossible to separate Cannon from Fannon opinions as the discussion grows. Feel free to share any view or interpretation of the timeline here. Show, Comic, Books, Fannon. 

[Sig Hoovestrong 837]

Sound about right, is hard set time line on show like this cause apprantly in MLP fim show is just been about year seen first episode. My base's begin the first episode beging the day of Summer Sun Celebration, where Luna was banised. And the first episode of season one was Summer Sun Celebration. So safe say in episode time is been abut year. Ontill season 4.

But where put every single episode is pikel, cause i heard they are not meant to be in order. So don't know when certain episode would be put on the time line. But gauss episode like winter wrap up, and running of the leafs would be put in the fall and winter of the year. Then think most of episode come after dos two are most likely in the spring and early summer.

[AmberDust 1,116]

I wonder if all of this is actually considered "canon" by the producers of the show. :/ Or by Fawst.

Since my earlier post, I've been thinking about this. It occurs to me, There were 5 English King Georges, 8 Henrys, & the French had 18(?) King Louis & I disremember how many Henrys. Are you SURE there was only 1 Starswirl?

 

Back in my hippy-dippy days, I was somewhat into Alchemy (useful for Dungeons & Dragons). Western Alchemy was founded by a man named Hermes Trimegeistes. It is hard to tell exactly what he did because a LOT of later alchemists used his name when publishing their work. They felt this gave their ideas more credibility.

 

Perhaps Starswirl is the same? Maybe other wizards used his name to gain his street cred?

 

Like the dread pirate Roberts?

It's a nice idea, but I doubt it's something the creators would do.

[Jeric 46,834]

I wonder if all of this is actually considered "canon" by the producers of the show. :/ Or by Fawst.

 

 

No, however a discussion topic about timelines can contain fluid conversation about interpretations as well as cannon elements depending on where you stand on the matter. You also have the disagreements on what is and isn't cannon on other media streams that will impact the timeline. The Journal of the Two Sisters is cannon in my head as it was written by AKR, with some discussion with Faust (though she didn't keep everything they talked about, so even Faust is not the standard bearer anymore on what is and isn't cannon. Because of that alone, there has to be some 'flexibility' on the discussion. Feel free to include a 'compare and contrast' between yours and theirs to further the discussion.

[AmberDust 1,116]

No, however a discussion topic about timelines can contain fluid conversation about interpretations as well as cannon elements depending on where you stand on the matter. You also have the disagreements on what is and isn't cannon on other media streams that will impact the timeline. The Journal of the Two Sisters is cannon in my head as it was written by AKR, with some discussion with Faust (though she didn't keep everything they talked about, so even Faust is not the standard bearer anymore on what is and isn't cannon. Because of that alone, there has to be some 'flexibility' on the discussion. Feel free to include a 'compare and contrast' between yours and theirs to further the discussion.

Yeah, I consider that book canon, too. As well as the guide to the elements of harmony. I'm just no sure about those comics... And it seems like a lot of the info on this timeline is derived from them. I guess I'd better research Jose comics, first. I wish I knew where to buy them ^^'

 

Oh, and by the way, it's "canon" not "cannon". A cannon is a weapon that fires big metal balls. Canon is a weapon that fires solid facts. XD

Both sink ships.

But yeah, the word "canon" was originally used to describe stuff written in the bible, as a way of saying "official"... I think. :S

a collection or list of sacred books accepted as genuine.

"the formation of the biblical canon"

Edited December 9, 2014 by AmberDust

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

Yeah, I consider that book canon, too. As well as the guide to the elements of harmony. I'm just no sure about those comics... And it seems like a lot of the info on this timeline is derived from them. I guess I'd better research Jose comics, first. I wish I knew where to buy them ^^'

Most of the stuff on this timeline seems to be fanon. The comics don't mention most of these things.

 

I have pretty much all the books and comics and stuff, so I think I'm going to have to put together an incredibly OCD canon based timeline at some point.

 

Does the Elements of Harmony book have anything interesting in it? From reading the reviews it seemed to mostly consist of stuff you could already get from just watching the show, so I've never bought it.

[AmberDust 1,116]

Most of the stuff on this timeline seems to be fanon. The comics don't mention most of these things.

 

I have pretty much all the books and comics and stuff, so I think I'm going to have to put together an incredibly OCD canon based timeline at some point.

 

Does the Elements of Harmony book have anything interesting in it? From reading the reviews it seemed to mostly consist of stuff you could already get from just watching the show, so I've never bought it.

.

 

I wanted to make an OCD canon-only timeline, but the thread got merged with this one lol. So, if you do that, don't do it on mlpforums. And contact me first, because I'd like to be a part of it!

 

I heard that the second half of that book is just recaps of the episodes, but the first half has some nice concept art and commentary from Fawst. You should get it.

 

Also, there's some interesting points made here regarding canon: http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/User_blog:Ghostkaiba297/Canon_Discussion

[sweetolebob18 724]

I wish I knew how to quote, being too old to have learned this stuff in school sucks sometimes.

 

Amber Dust  You've got a Star Swirl in stage 1 prehistory & a Star Swirl in stage 4.  That seems a long time for 1 pony to be around.

 

Sig Hoovestrong  I've got a thread trying to put the episodes in order.  If I knew how to put in a link, I would.  Since I can't, I won't.  But, I would be grateful for any help/comments you would care to give.

[keidachan 48]

0. Luna and Celestia are born.

1. Pre-hearths warming-- the tribes are separate. The moon and sun are the responsibility of Star Swirl and other unicorns (according to the journal of the two sisters).

2. Hearths warming-- Equestria is formed and the tribes are united. The tree of Harmony begins to sprout.

3. Discord's rule-- disharmony returns amongst the now-united tribes, and Discord is born

4. The sisters rise-- Celestia and Luna (who were born as Alicorn royals, but perhaps just figureheads at the time) stand up to Discord and take over, using the newly discovered elements of Harmony.

At their coronation as rulers of Equestria, they meet Star Swirl the Bearded (journal of the two sisters). Here's where we get into speculation. I'm guessing the rule of Discord didn't last long...either that, or Star Swirl was raising the sun as a colt before the Princesses came around. We know he was never an Alicorn, so his lifespan should have been normal. It IS possible that he met the sisters at their initial coronations back when they were figureheads and didn't actually rule anything, but I doubt it.

5. The crystal empire vanishes (1000 years ago, I think)

6. Luna is corrupted, then banished. Celestia now holds all the elements.

7. Where our story begins--Luna returns

8. The elements of Harmony gain new weilders, and their bonds to the princesses are severed.

9. Discord's spell is broken...but that doesn't last long.

10. The crystal empire resurfaces, and Sombra is defeated. Also there's a royal wedding. Woo.

11. A new princess is crowned. (Fawst states Twilight was supposed to be Celestia's heir, but as of yet she doesn't really rule anything. Hopefully season 5 will clear things up.)

12. Tirek escapes and is defeated

13. Twilight is officially crowned Princess of Friendship.

I don't think discord's rule and discord's birth are as close in time as you seem to make them, I always assumed he was about the same age as celestia or luna, though I must admit that the princesses being crowned after taking him down seems more likely then them being overthrown by him for a short time.

[AmberDust 1,116]

I wish I knew how to quote, being too old to have learned this stuff in school sucks sometimes.

 

Amber Dust You've got a Star Swirl in stage 1 prehistory & a Star Swirl in stage 4. That seems a long time for 1 pony to be around.

 

Sig Hoovestrong I've got a thread trying to put the episodes in order. If I knew how to put in a link, I would. Since I can't, I won't. But, I would be grateful for any help/comments you would care to give.

Firstly, to quote someone you have to click on their entry, the a button with "quote" on it will appear.

Secondly, everyhing I posted was CANON. It was stated in the journal of the two sisters that Star Swirl was one of the ponies who raised the sun before the rule of Celestia. It was ALSO stated in the same book that Celestia met Star Swirl at her coronation...and I have reason to believe that the coronation happened after they bested Discord (because that's when they became true rulers).

I don't think discord's rule and discord's birth are as close in time as you seem to make them, I always assumed he was about the same age as celestia or luna, though I must admit that the princesses being crowned after taking him down seems more likely then them being overthrown by him for a short time.

I just figured Discord was "born" when the land was in disharmony. He could have been born before that though. All I know for sure is that he came into power when the world was lacking harmony. So, I guess the disharmony between ponies made him stronger, if it wasn't what created him.

It's hard to tell if he's older than the sisters. He SOUNDS and LOOKS older, but that doesn't really mean anything when you're a spirit.

Edited December 9, 2014 by AmberDust

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

Firstly, to quote someone you have to click on their entry, the a button with "quote" on it will appear.

Secondly, everyhing I posted was CANON. It was stated in the journal of the two sisters that Star Swirl was one of the ponies who raised the sun before the rule of Celestia. It was ALSO stated in the same book that Celestia met Star Swirl at her coronation...and I have reason to believe that the coronation happened after they bested Discord (because that's when they became true rulers).

I just figured Discord was "born" when the land was in disharmony. He could have been born before that though. All I know for sure is that he came into power when the world was lacking harmony. So, I guess the disharmony between ponies made him stronger, if it wasn't what created him.

It's hard to tell if he's older than the sisters. He SOUNDS and LOOKS older, but that doesn't really mean anything when you're a spirit.

Discord would have had to have come after Journal of the Two Sisters because Luna and Celestia only just learn about the Tree of Harmony during the book, and The Elements were needed to defeat Discord.

 

They also have their Cutie Marks when they face Discord which they don't earn till during the book.

 

EDIT: Oh, and if you're still looking for the comics, we're currently on the last day to get the Humble Bundle of pretty much everythiing for $15. https://www.humblebundle.com/books

Edited December 9, 2014 by Andaasonsan

[keidachan 48]

I just figured Discord was "born" when the land was in disharmony. He could have been born before that though. All I know for sure is that he came into power when the world was lacking harmony. So, I guess the disharmony between ponies made him stronger, if it wasn't what created him.

It's hard to tell if he's older than the sisters. He SOUNDS and LOOKS older, but that doesn't really mean anything when you're a spirit.

 

Discord would have had to have come after Journal of the Two Sisters because Luna and Celestia only just learn about the Tree of Harmony during the book, and The Elements were needed to defeat Discord.

 

They also have their Cutie Marks when they face Discord which they don't earn till during the book.

 

EDIT: Oh, and if you're still looking for the comics, we're currently on the last day to get the Humble Bundle of pretty much everythiing for $15. https://www.humblebundle.com/books

 

I always though he would have go be born and grow long before he rose to power. So even if he was born from disharmony it could have been with the first spark of it and grown as it spread thus making him likely as old or even older than the sisters but his rise to power falling in line with the events previously stated.

[Bright Bastion 241]

 

 

So even if he was born from disharmony it could have been with the first spark of it and grown as it spread thus making him likely as old or even older than the sisters but his rise to power falling in line with the events previously stated.

 

Looking at it from a 'greek mythology' standpoint (I'm just hung up on greek mythology recently) Chaos is a force that has probably always existed, so maybe Discord has existed since the beginning. But that's sort of getting into Creation Theory which is always weird.

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

Looking at it from a 'greek mythology' standpoint (I'm just hung up on greek mythology recently) Chaos is a force that has probably always existed, so maybe Discord has existed since the beginning. But that's sort of getting into Creation Theory which is always weird.

"Chaos" in Greek Myth isn't exactly the same sort of "chaos" that we mean by the modern definition. It's just sort of the undefined primordial stuff that existed before the world was created. That's probably not germane to the discussion though.

 

It does seem likely that Discord is supposed to be the living incarnation of the very concept of "discord" so I could see him having always existed. 

[Bright Bastion 241]

 

 

not germ

 

Well that's what I meant, not that the chaos is the same in Greek mythology as it is in modern interpretations,  just that based on that principle, Discord could have always existed.

[AmberDust 1,116]

It does seem likely that Discord is supposed to be the living incarnation of the very concept of "discord" so I could see him having always existed.

It's more than possible. It's official. He actually calls himself "spirit of chaos" in the show. He IS the living incarnation of disharmony.

Discord would have had to have come after Journal of the Two Sisters because Luna and Celestia only just learn about the Tree of Harmony during the book, and The Elements were needed to defeat Discord.

 

They also have their Cutie Marks when they face Discord which they don't earn till during the book.

Yes, Discord came to power afterwards, but he was still born before the book happened.

Did the princesses meet Star Swirl in that book? I really need to buy it.

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

Did the princesses meet Star Swirl in that book? I really need to buy it.

Yeah, they do. He plays a pretty big part.

[AmberDust 1,116]

Yeah, they do. He plays a pretty big part.

Okay, so then they had their coronation BEFORE they becme real rulers.

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

Okay, so then they had their coronation BEFORE they becme real rulers.

I'm a little confused by what you mean here. A "coronation" is when you become a ruler, so by definition it would have to be before.

[AmberDust 1,116]

I'm a little confused by what you mean here. A "coronation" is when you become a ruler, so by definition it would have to be before.

Celestia and Luna were children at the time, so I doubt they were in charge of anything. And in hearths warming eve, Spike stated it happened LONG BEFORE their rule. I have a feeling they never actually ruled over anything until they defeated Discord.

[Andaasonsan 3,205]

Celestia and Luna were children at the time, so I doubt they were in charge of anything. And in hearths warming eve, Spike stated it happened LONG BEFORE their rule. I have a feeling they never actually ruled over anything until they defeated Discord.

 

They age really slow so they didn't have their cutie marks, but they weren't really children as they were already older than most other ponies would live. (Which is a big part of the book). They're put in charge pretty much right after being approached by Starswirl and the tribes.