People rubbing in their religions

[Malinter 3,064]

I personally dislike all organized religions, they might have had a meaning once but that day is gone. They once existed to create a sense of community in people but now they just divide people by making them judge and hate others who believe differently from them.

 

I'm totally okay with there being a God or whatnot, but seeing some of the weirder believers and the shit they say make the very idea of spend eternity in heaven with these arseholes pretty horrifying.

[Sigma 768]

Don't thump the bible, read it.

[Tanos 179]

One more thing that annoys me is the teaching of religion in schools as fact. I mayy not have a problem with religion, but in my opinion teaching it to children as if it were fact is just another way of forcing it onto people. Kids will believe everything you tell them - they should be allowed to make their own choice.

So then how is teaching evolution as a universally accepted fact any different (Even many atheist scientists disagree)? I go to a Christian school where they explain evolution in Biology and both the OT and NT in Bible class. Public schools will teach evolution as fact, but aren't allowed to even teach the bible or intelligent design at all (or at least most can't). How can you claim that way gives any choice?

 

Also, science textbooks can have just as much bias as many say Christian education has. For example, if you read the explanation of miller's experiment (look it up if you're not familiar) in the 8th edition of Campbell's biology (A college textbook also used in many AP classes) pg. 59, it talks about how the initial gas combination was scrutinized and different combinations of gases have given more reliable results in modern times since most agree that the first experiment is not sufficiently convincing (these are facts). At the end of the passage it says (I'm going to paraphrase but you can verify it yourself) that scientists aren't 100% sure or in complete agreement that this (method of the formation of life) even happened since, "the jury is still out". However, if you read the 10th edition of the same textbook that came out recently you'll find on pg. 57 that the updated edition also explains miller's experiment (a lot of it cut and pasted with a few grammatical differences) but conveniently takes out any mention of factual criticisms that have been raised and anything that suggests there's disagreement in the scientific community, effectively retracting the idea that life could've happened differently than what the textbook writers believe.

Edited November 13, 2014 by Scotti3

[Envy 5,996]

While I certainly may find it weird, I typically don't have any problem with people bringing up their religion, just as long as they aren't using it to justify homophobia, sexism, racism, etc.

[~Chaotic Eddie~ 479]

 

 

How can you claim that way gives any choice?

You raise some good points - I personally believe that there is more proof of evolution than creationism, hence why it is taught. Our knowledge of evolution is incomplete - though religion is all down to belief as opposed to actual evidence, hence why it is called "faith".

And as for the choice thing, what I mean is that children should be allowed to choose what they believe and don't believe. They might disagree with evolution, they might agree with it. They might choose to be religious, they might not.

[DATA EXPUNGED 324]

Since I am an atheist, and brought up in a Orthodox Jewish family, I find myself constantly being flocked by Christians. My Jewish relatives and friends are very respectful of my decision, and I still do Passover, Hanukah, Tabernacles ect. with my family out of respect. However, the christians I know are constantly trying to "convert" me. saying ill go to hell if i don't, and constantly brag about their "Jesus." I don't bug them, so why do they insist to harass me?

[Kapitan zur See Hans (Daz) 883]

Since I am an atheist, and brought up in a Orthodox Jewish family, I find myself constantly being flocked by Christians. My Jewish relatives and friends are very respectful of my decision, and I still do Passover, Hanukah, Tabernacles ect. with my family out of respect. However, the christians I know are constantly trying to "convert" me. saying ill go to hell if i don't, and constantly brag about their "Jesus." I don't bug them, so why do they insist to harass me?

lol yep, my friend does the same thing preaching that I will go to hell, but really if there is a religion that is going to send me to eternal suffering because I don't believe in a higher power even if I can follow all the other tenets of that religion, then that just makes me want to follow it even less. Though my reasons against following any religion are not because I dislike what it says. Though I do go to church and try to be respectful as that is there choice, as well as to appease my family.

[VitalSpark 1,830]

 

 

So then how is teaching evolution as a universally accepted fact any different (Even many atheist scientists disagree)?

 
 

Because Charles Darwin's theory of evolution by natural selection is broadly accepted as fact by the scientific community. It is pretty much as widely accepted as Isaac Newton's theory of universal gravitation.

 

Newton got some details wrong of course, and his ideas have been updated and shaped ever since, most notably Einstein's theory of general relativity was an important update and a change to the way scientists think about gravity. There are still things we don't know about gravity, such as how it is "transmitted", and how it relates to the other three fundamental forces of nature, and why it's so weak compared to them. One day we might discover some of the answers to those questions, but Newton's ideas are likely to remain broadly correct, and a useful (albeit perhaps simplistic) way of thinking about gravity.

 

There is plenty of debate about evolution in scientific circles, but it's the same kind of debate that happens with gravity. Scientists might debate the exact relationship between birds and dinosaurs (are birds evolved from dinosaurs, or are they more like close cousins?) or the role of horizontal genetic transfer in the evolution of micro-organisms, but the fact that evolution happened and is still happening is not debated. It's not because scientists are closed-minded, or afraid to accept competing theories, but rather because evolution is so strongly supported by the fossil record, and has been demonstrated both in the wild, and in laboratory settings. Biologists don't cling onto evolution out of tradition, but because it is the theory that best explains what they observe in nature and in their labs.

[RedMage_ 13]

Agnostic-Theist here. I feel exactly the same.

[WindyParadise 59]

It's strange that many atheists profess to not believe in God or gods despite continuing the practices set down by religious organizations long ago.

 Not trying to insult any one, but I personally find it interesting.

[Kapitan zur See Hans (Daz) 883]

It's strange that many atheists profess to not believe in God or gods despite continuing the practices set down by religious organizations long ago.

 Not trying to insult any one, but I personally find it interesting.

What do you mean by practices, like how to treat others, beliefs on sexuality, beliefs on other cultures, etc, or like actually going to church for others? If you mean the former, well I don't think we would be barbarians or anything and still have nearly the same morals as we do today just with alterations made in certain areas, but one can never say for sure.

[VitalSpark 1,830]

It's strange that many atheists profess to not believe in God or gods despite continuing the practices set down by religious organizations long ago.

 Not trying to insult any one, but I personally find it interesting.

 

I'm not sure which practices you are referring to.

 

If you're talking about, say, not believing in any divine power, but practising prayer, that would be strange, yes. Though I've heard some do... I believe they claim that vocalisation helps them clarify exactly what their hopes and desires are; helps them think more clearly about them; and ultimately helps them go about achieving their aims. (As a programmer, I can attest to the common debugging technique of explaining your problem in great detail to a teddy bear. Just putting a problem into words and saying them out loud seems to help you see the solution about 80% of the time.) So maybe this is a bad example.

 

OK, so if you're talking about, say, not believing in god, but going to churches, that would be strange, yes. But on the other hand, I myself have visited many nice churches. St Paul's Cathedral in London, Notre Dame and Sacré-Cœur in Paris, St Peter's in the Vatican, Winchester Cathedral in... errr... Winchester obviously, and Sagrada Família in Barcelona are some of the ones I've been too. I've been to holy buildings of other religions too - a mosque in Turkey and the Pantheon in Rome spring to mind. These buildings were all inspiring places - they show what beautiful things we can create.

 

Weddings? How about weddings? The religious like to claim some sort of monopoly on weddings. "How dare gay people get married?! I don't have a problem with them living together, but marriage is a religious concept, so you cannot have a wedding which would upset the baby Jesus!" Wrong! Marriage is a truly ancient practice that predates Christianity by a very long way. The Chinese were getting married in 200 BC. The Egyptians were getting married in 3000 BC. Marriage predates Judaism. Marriage predates written records. Some super-fundamentalist Christians believe the world was created in around 5500 BC. Marriage is probably older than they think the entire world is. In Christianity, marriage didn't start being treated as a religious ceremony until the 12th century. Until then, it was an entirely secular affair that the church merely recognised. I'm an atheist, and I'm married. Why shouldn't I be? My marriage has nothing to do with any gods or goddesses. (Unless you count my wife as a goddess, but I think even she would agree that that's probably going a bit far.)

 

There are of course also plenty of entirely secular activities which religious groups have kick-started, but make perfect sense to partake in regardless of your religion of lack thereof. Jewish people invented the bagel, but you don't need to be Jewish to eat them.

 

The Lydians invented coins, but they seemed to be a good idea, so the Greeks, and then the Romans, and then everyone else who came after them kept using them. Doesn't mean we have to keep following weird Lydian religious beliefs.

 

Roman pagans started Saturnalia, but that doesn't stop billions of Christians from celebrating it. (Even if they did feel the need to rename it to "Christmas". I prefer the old name.)

 

So please do tell me what religious practices you think it's interesting I keep using.

[Sigma 768]

It's strange that many atheists profess to not believe in God or gods despite continuing the practices set down by religious organizations long ago.

 Not trying to insult any one, but I personally find it interesting.

 

If you're talking about going to a place of worship regularly, then yea, I find that interesting too. However:

 

-Various holidays

-Marriage

-Morality

-Spiritual experience

 

Everything in this list has either never belonged to religion in the first place, or was started by religion and is now public domain.

Edited November 14, 2014 by Asterisk Propernoun

[Malafax 90]

If someone brings up religion around me, I ask if they're Christian. I then tell them I am a Satanist and watch them squirm. I tell them the truth about Satanism, making sure to mention THERE IS NO WORSHIP OF ANY DEVILS OR DEMONS. IT IS JUST A LOGICAL WAY OF THINKING ABOUT SOCIETY, RELIGION AND LIFE IN GENERAL. If they try and rub Christianity in my face and go on about "God," then they will lose faith if they don't run like a bitch within half an hour. And that my friends, is how I roll.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Djesus

[Commander Bubbles 1,343]

Here's my honest opinion of religion, coming from an agonstic. It doesn't matter if you believe in Christianity, Islam, Satanism, Atheism, or Buddhism, your belief is your belief. Sure you can talk about it, but putting others down just for what they believe in makes you an even bigger schmuck than the person you're mocking. Believe in what you want, that is fine. But if you try to tell others that you are right and they are wrong, that is crossing the line. That goes both for religious people, and for the anti-religious. Rubbing atheism or anti-theism into one's face is equally as bad as rubbing Christianity into another's face. Keep that in mind as to not look like a hypocritical idiot when trying to slam someone for their beliefs.

Edited November 15, 2014 by Jake From State Farm

[NotoriousSMALL 1,984]

If someone brings up religion around me, I ask if they're Christian. I then tell them I am a Satanist and watch them squirm. I tell them the truth about Satanism, making sure to mention THERE IS NO WORSHIP OF ANY DEVILS OR DEMONS. IT IS JUST A LOGICAL WAY OF THINKING ABOUT SOCIETY, RELIGION AND LIFE IN GENERAL. If they try and rub Christianity in my face and go on about "God," then they will lose faith if they don't run like a bitch within half an hour. And that my friends, is how I roll.

You might not think you're worshipping demons, but you might actually be. Everything is symbolic, that's what satan does, he tricks you into worshipping him by using symbols (even chrisitans and jews have this problem). I mean if it isn't about worshipping satan, why the hell is it called satanism? Wouldn't it make more sense to call it something else, and to not have religious people give you crap? I'm sure you might get tired of telling people over and over again how youre not worshipping demons?

[Malafax 90]

You might not think you're worshipping demons, but you might actually be. Everything is symbolic, that's what satan does, he tricks you into worshipping him by using symbols (even chrisitans and jews have this problem). I mean if it isn't about worshipping satan, why the hell is it called satanism? Wouldn't it make more sense to call it something else, and to not have religious people give you crap? I'm sure you might get tired of telling people over and over again how youre not worshipping demons?

This should explain what I'm talking about (read Philosophy as well). If that doesn't explain it, I'll sum it up in a simplified way. Anton LaVey (the guy that "created" modern Satanism in the 1960's) believed that Christianity was a hypocritical religion that was outdated by a few centuries. He found this hypocrisy appalling, so he researched further into it's ideologies. He modified some of these ideologies and applied it to an atheistic, modern perspective. "Satan" in Christianity is a symbol of indulgence, which leads to gratification in some way. LaVey thought this was more important and rewarding than abstinence, so he created a "religion" (which in reality is nothing more than a couple of principles that most people live by anyway) under the name of "Satan," hence "Satanism."

 

TL;DR

Satanism advocates indulgence in the "Seven Deadly Sins" rather than abstinence, as it leads to gratification and creates ambition. It's an atheistic, self-serving set of modern principles.

[WindyParadise 59]

This should explain what I'm talking about (read Philosophy as well). If that doesn't explain it, I'll sum it up in a simplified way. Anton LaVey (the guy that "created" modern Satanism in the 1960's) believed that Christianity was a hypocritical religion that was outdated by a few centuries. He found this hypocrisy appalling, so he researched further into it's ideologies. He modified some of these ideologies and applied it to an atheistic, modern perspective. "Satan" in Christianity is a symbol of indulgence, which leads to gratification in some way. LaVey thought this was more important and rewarding than abstinence, so he created a "religion" (which in reality is nothing more than a couple of principles that most people live by anyway) under the name of "Satan," hence "Satanism."

 

TL;DR

Satanism advocates indulgence in the "Seven Deadly Sins" rather than abstinence, as it leads to gratification and creates ambition. It's an atheistic, self-serving set of modern principles.

Why would someone want to follow a religion that wants them to be a lazy perverted angry (ect...) person?   Also a deadly sin is Sloth, which does not create ambition in any way.

Alright, now that I'm back from my short Internet break.

 

If you're talking about going to a place of worship regularly, then yea, I find that interesting too. However:

 

-Various holidays

-Marriage

-Morality

-Spiritual experience

 

Everything in this list has either never belonged to religion in the first place, or was started by religion and is now public domain.

 

So please do tell me what religious practices you think it's interesting I keep using.

What do you mean by practices, like how to treat others, beliefs on sexuality, beliefs on other cultures, etc, or like actually going to church for others? If you mean the former, well I don't think we would be barbarians or anything and still have nearly the same morals as we do today just with alterations made in certain areas, but one can never say for sure.

Well I meant that a lot of things that were started by a religious or spiritual group and is still continued today. Like burial and meditation were originally spiritual things that have changed over time. We still give respect to the dead and generally follow patterns set down long ago.

 

I know some atheists who still seem 'spiritual' in that sense, I should have worded the statement better. Sorry about that. 

[Tameless 979]

Yeah I hate it when people try to force you to be in a religion. I'm not religious so people get annoyed with me. "You have to be religious. You have to pick a side." Yeah no I don't so brush off.

[Kapitan zur See Hans (Daz) 883]

Ooooh an actual Satanist(Sorry don't mean to gawk, just extremely intrigued), I've never met one in real life or on the internet before, I've done light research on Satanism before to dispel rumors, and I gotta say Satanism really doesn't seem bad at all, not that I'd be one. Though I have never gotten around to reading The Satanic Bible so I am pretty ignorant about Satanist still.

[Gone Airbourne 21,969]

My personal belief is Christianity yet at times I wonder why this world has to have religion?? Like really what is the point to it? Why is it something that people have to think they have to have... That is something I wonder about all the time.

[Kapitan zur See Hans (Daz) 883]

My personal belief is Christianity yet at times I wonder why this world has to have religion?? Like really what is the point to it? Why is it something that people have to think they have to have... That is something I wonder about all the time.

Same here, I used to think about this all the time, so much that it really made me go into research on religions(specifically Christianity) which lead to me becoming an atheist. This is just my personal opinion though, everybody is different, not gonna question anyone elses belief, just curious as to how and why religion ever started and how we can actually tell it came from a God rather than just a man who wrote something and someone took it as an opportunity. Sorry I don't mean to rag on anyone's beliefs, was just expressing myself.

[Gone Airbourne 21,969]

Same here, I used to think about this all the time, so much that it really made me go into research on religions(specifically Christianity) which lead to me becoming an atheist. This is just my personal opinion though, everybody is different, not gonna question anyone elses belief, just curious as to how and why religion ever started and how we can actually tell it came from a God rather than just a man who wrote something and someone took it as an opportunity. Sorry I don't mean to rag on anyone's beliefs, was just expressing myself.

I know your right I just don't get all these divisions and people talking bad about other beliefs and denomination so on and so forth it's so childish and annoying. People make things harder than they seem all the time just because someone else believes in something else DOES NOT mean there is anything wrong with them.

Edited November 16, 2014 by Gone Airbourne

[Kapitan zur See Hans (Daz) 883]

I know your right I just don't get all these divisions and people talking bad about other beliefs and denomination so on and so forth it's so childish and annoying. People make things harder than they seem all the time just because someone else believes in something else DOES NOT mean there is anything wrong with them.

I agree 100%, religion seems to define so many people including Atheism/Agnosticism, if people could accept each other and their beliefs just imagine the progress humananity could make, I mean the middle east is ridiculous especially in Israel atm. Ugh, Idk, I guess I can't judge others, but I just don't like it.

[Jeric 46,834]

Why would someone want to follow a religion that wants them to be a lazy perverted angry (ect...) person?

 

I can actually answer this question.

 

The seven deadly sins usually invoke a an extreme mental image. Sloth means more than some guy sitting on the couch doing nothing for his entire life. Lust means more than promiscuity. Honestly, what is really advocated by Satanists is closer to embracing these, but usually not with reckless abandon to the detriment of others and yourself. A better mental image would be the characters of A.A. Milne's characters in Winnie The Pooh. For example, to Satanists there would be no fault found in pride if you feel that you are better at something than others. 

 

It's just another belief system at the end of the day that allows and promotes hedonism within bounds.

 

---

 

EDIT:

 

Interestingly enough ... not proselytizing is actually part of their belief system. They advocate keeping your opinions to yourself unless asked. It's a primary tenet as a matter of fact,