Jump to content
Banner by ~ Ice Princess Silky

Why does Western society hate feminine males?


Prismatica

Recommended Posts

Imagine on the day of your birth, the doctor flipped a coin, and from the sheer fifty-fifty chance, said "Okay, you have to act like this for the rest of your life." That's gender roles in a nutshell. I didn't ask to be born male, so don't try to hold me up to some standard.

Edited by Sigma
  • Brohoof 9
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 2 months later...

Sorry, but...

Bump.



*Disclaimer: I didn't read all the pages.  It's possible someone already said this, I don't know.*


 

"Why does Western society hate feminine males?"
 

First of all, the United States of America is not the only West[ern society].  This is because the term "West/Western" transformed from being defined locationally to being defined culturally. Many other countries around the globe are Western, despite their location.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_world#Modern_definitions

---

Secondly,

Non-Western countries are more male-centric than Western countries.

At the same time,

Western countries still place a higher importance on masculinity than they should.

You see, the problem of men being told to not to be feminine is not the original issue.  The original issue is countries placing a lower value on females.  The OP defines the problem, and says something along the lines of "boys/men are told not to be feminine, but girls/women are allowed to play with 'boy toys', etc., and are even encouraged to do so."  Let me tell you why.  It is because society promotes masculinity.  Girls who have masculinity are given a higher merit than girls who don't.  Boys who are feminine are given a lower merit than girls who aren't even masculine.

So, let me separate the issues for you:

The issue in Non-Western countries is focused more on male vs. female, and less on masculine vs feminine.
The issue in Western countries is focused more on masculine vs. feminine, and less on male vs. female.

Some may try to argue, "But Western countries still do have the issue of male vs. female."

I'm not disagreeing with that.

I'm saying that there is a reversal of cause and effect between Western and Non-Western countries.  

(Note: I'm American, so this will be US-biased in terms of Western)

Think about this:

Over the past few decades, women have been achieving much more equality.  They are doing jobs that used to be very male dominated.  At the same time, we're also seeing more men doing jobs that used to be very female dominated.  

So, while the male vs. female issue isn't completely faded away, it's getting close.

Now is when we can get to masculinity vs. femininity in this discussion.

---

So, with all that being said, back to the original question in the OP.

---

Let's get one thing straight.  We all enjoy, and want the concepts of masculinity and femininity to stay as they are, in themselves.  By that I mean, we don't want society to turn into fully gender-equal people (where masculinity and femininity don't exist as separate concepts), because some of us prefer to orient ourselves with more gender-based separation...  We love self-expression.  So, we aren't trying to say that we should separate these concepts from society.

BUT...

What we are trying to achieve is the separation of masculinity and femininity from sex. Ergo, allowing males and females both to have any amount of one, both, or neither of the concepts.  

And ^ that ^ is exactly why I've been trying to tell people that "gender roles" aren't gender roles, but rather sex roles.

"I'm confused?"

Let me give examples.

Pink and blue... boy's toys and girl's toys... suits and dresses... etc.

We need to stop thinking that these things are sex-based.  Those examples are not separations of male and female sex.  They are separation of masculine and feminine things.

What I'm saying is: don't take away the masculinity and femininity separation.

Now, let me clarify: I'd be fine if an aisle in Walmart mixed boy's toys with girl's toys; mixed pink and blue.  In fact, that'd be a good thing!

But, recognize that sex and gender are not the same thing.  We need to progress society into transforming masculinity and femininity based by sex into being based by gender.

Gender roles aren't bad!  Sex roles ARE!

Sex roles are saying: males go to work, females stay home and cook... 

But,

Masculinity and femininity should be gender based.  Why?  Because we have progressed into allowing people to differentiate between their sex and their gender.  Therefore, we should now start to allow anyone of any sex to have masculinity or femininity.

These concepts should no longer be: "males are masculine and females are feminine..."

These concepts should become: "Any sex can be masculine or feminine."

Sex = male vs. female

Gender = personal, mental understanding and expression of any ratio of masculinity, femininity.

People who feel they have a basically equal combination of masculinity and femininity may identify as androgynous.

People who feel their gender matches their sex will identify as such - like myself.  But, that doesn't mean I can't have femininity at all.  It means I naturally am more masculine than feminine.  

So to finally answer the OP:

You're asking the wrong question.

We should be asking how we can get people to understand that when we progressed into differentiating sex and gender, we should have progressed into understanding that masculinity and femininity are not based by sex, and that anyone - even those whose gender matches their sex - can have masculinity and femininity in any ratio.  

~ Miles

P.S.

Don't be confused when I say "gender roles" are good.  "Role" has no negative connotation in itself.  It is the added meaning socially given to a certain role that dictates if the connotation is positive or negative.

>>> "a set of attributes, behaviors, and roles generally associated with [boys and men]/[girls and women]"
>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Masculinity

>>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Femininity

Those links also say: 

>>> "both men and women can exhibit [masculine]/[feminine] traits. People who exhibit combination of both masculine and feminine characteristics are considered androgynous."

P.P.S

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Androgyny

  • Brohoof 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not only in the US,  I know that many Hispanic countries have a strong reject of feminine dudes. I know some Mexicans that have commented a HUGE regection towards deminine men in their country

Edited by Steve Piranha
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Not only in the US,  I know that many Hispanic countries have a strong reject of feminine dudes. I know some Mexicans that have commented a HUGE regection towards deminine men in their country

 

Oh it's far worse in Mexico than here in the U.S.! Gay pride parades can be held openly, with some protest sure, but the cops are usually keeping the protestors back, not the paraders.

 

In Mexico? If a man is revealed to be gay, there's a very likely chance that his life is in danger from his own neighbors and the cops!

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Why does Eastern society hate feminine males?

 

Because Eastern society has not gotten over their sex roles as we have been getting over in Western countries.  Eastern countries have strict sex roles still.  They therefore erroneously qualify masculinity and femininity as sex-based, because they include the concepts within their sex roles.  

 

In Western society we have progressed, and no longer have the same sex roles.  

 

Eastern society hates feminine males because that breaks their strict sex role enforcement.  The same goes for masculine women in those countries.

 

~ Miles

  • Brohoof 2
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't believe it has anything to do with hatred of females, I think there are just certain expectations of men in western society. Men are expected be to strong, and women are allowed to be weak, so a weak man is seen as feminine and therefore that's seen as a bad thing

 

 

........Do you even logic?

 

 

Observe -- 

 

Feminine = Weak = Bad

Masculine = Strong = Good

 

THEREFORE

 

Feminine = Bad

Masculine = Good

 

See the issue? 

 

 

But weakness in general is bad.

 

 

Agreed. But not as long as weakness and femininity are used interchangeably.

 

Personally, I consider it a weakness to let society dictate who you are.

  • Brohoof 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

You are free to act however you please and everyone is also allowed to judge you upon such act. To be honest, it is good in western society. It is a buck load better than the middle east where they just stone you to death or slit your throat instead of just judging.

 

People denounce females in western society? No.

Fifthly rich people denounce females in western society? Yes.

Edited by RainbowDarth
Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 5 years later...

Feminine males are so beautiful :Daydreaming: looks or act ya know

If anything though yeah i'm thinking western society has made more progress. Like sure there may be femininity appreciation in some cultures like Japan but overall it is still frowned upon like Women saying I only want the men who eating the manly Steak ya know.

Edited by flurry
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hmmm what is feminine?  First thing that comes to mind is what the common ....feelings of a woman? Because fem-male?  Fem-ininine??? Like being picky... Shy, blushes alot, has a quiet voice,.wait woman dont have quiet voices!? What is femininininine!?:laugh: googling right now.... Even i dont know it and im old....i must educate myself now

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Screenshot_20200802-054623455.thumb.jpg.f1c1fde24971b53eab6ef576e1f467e2.jpgwell i guess if you are a "man" you shouldn't be feminine unless a bi-male.. i suppose so being shy or quiet doesn't make you feminine.... You become feminine if you do exclusive female stuff .... Did i get that right?

Delicacy and prettiness.... Frowned upon by feminists... So whats the feminists point of view on feminine? 

Link to comment
Share on other sites

9 hours ago, Kujamih said:

Screenshot_20200802-054623455.thumb.jpg.f1c1fde24971b53eab6ef576e1f467e2.jpgwell i guess if you are a "man" you shouldn't be feminine unless a bi-male.. i suppose so being shy or quiet doesn't make you feminine.... You become feminine if you do exclusive female stuff .... Did i get that right?

Delicacy and prettiness.... Frowned upon by feminists... So whats the feminists point of view on feminine? 

People who look like dainty or delicate can be feminine. But also those who do feminine or associated with such stuff, not so sporty, kind or soft or overly caring. It is subjective to some part maybe even. I don't think it is to do with exclusively having feminine interests or whatever but maybe having a lot of those would make it seem like it. It is also just the personality and the lack of certain qualities even like lacking assertiveness or having qualities a lot of men don't have generally.

I dunno if you can generalise on feminists since there are different sorts. I don't think feminists frown upon femininity as much as it was about gender roles and wanting Women to go do things usually considered a man's duty or whatever. But that is only a subset of them. There are different ideologies within feminism and many contradict as well as different distinct waves.

If anything I saw that there was encouragement of Women to get with someone who isn't so into traditional gender roles not feminine or anything just someone who would share laundry duties, cooking or caring for children etc.

Or certain anti feminists pointing out that the men supporting the feminists were not real men and feminine beta males.

Edited by flurry
Link to comment
Share on other sites

8 hours ago, Splashee® said:

People who try to stand out, just to stand out, will get hated at one point.

Hopefully you aren't trying to imply that anyone who is different is different for the sake of it, because that's f***ing ridiculous.

  • Brohoof 1
Link to comment
Share on other sites

I don't know honestly. I just wish everyone wouldn't hate on everyone :/ But haters exist and people will always find a way to hate you no matter what you do or say.

  • Brohoof 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

2 hours ago, Lucky Bolt said:

I don't know honestly. I just wish everyone wouldn't hate on everyone :/ But haters exist and people will always find a way to hate you no matter what you do or say.

I know that this topic hasn't been answered in about 5 years between 2015 and the last 24 hours, but I have to say your answer is the most clear and concise since people started posting here again.

Link to comment
Share on other sites

  • 4 months later...

Because they hate masculine people, its that simple. They are the type of people who would get you fired if you dont think certain ways. They are believer in social manipulation. So i hate them same way that they hate me

Link to comment
Share on other sites

Hrm, I think it has a lot to do with attitudes that come with gender roles.

In most american countries (remember kids, the whole american continent is composed by all the american political divisions, south, center, north and caribe, and thus all countries belonging to any of those divisions are american countries despite the USA not owning their territory) there's the concept that women can be divas according to their beauty and socio-economical situation. This diva behavior is accentuated through feminine traits and customs. On that sense, feminity has a lot to do with ettiquete and delicacy, making behaviors that are deemed rough, unneducated and lacking finesse look "manly". The actual problem is, those "fancy" and "delicate" behaviors of "good taste" are dated and come from several centuries ago, when nobelty was supposed to order around and never do anything with their own hands, since manual labor was a thing only peasants would do. Even worse if women had to do that, since women were educated on artistic crafts (as in activities rather than making handcrafts) such as music, poetry and painting because their role in nobelty was that of entertaining their husbands, order servants around and look pretty and that was about it. No political voice most of the time.

All that is the kind of opressive behavior middle and lower classes worked to punish through revolutions. That diva attitude is a constant reminder of the root of most of modern discrimination -social stratification-.

Now, as time passed, most societies slowly got rid of such behaviours in higher societies in the case of males, but not on females. The dandy slowly disappeared and was replaced with the stoic gentleman, but the divas remained in the lady imagery, and were never really discarded. All the oposite, modern society still uses that construction for female singers, actresses and all sort of public figures. Such imagery is present even in female empowerment (strong like a lioness and delicate like a butterfly, to phrase it someway). Modern society celebrates that "feminity" because in general society changes social constructs for females way slower than it does for males (be it for good or bad) and it still represents wealth and class.

In the american countries this is even slower because after the conquers performed by the europeans and then after the independencies of the american countries, american societies loathed europeans for a while (and the same applied the other way around). America stayed isolated again from other cultures (maybe not technologically, but still not too kind to take in new ideas from europe), and many customs from the colonial era remained while europe was more prone to evolve or devolve due their contact with africa and asia, making them likely to change easier.

Having said all that about the historic background, I can address the thing now (all that is important, btw).

Feminine males nowadays approach the diva imagery without even noticing (or other times intentionally), picking up undesired customs and manierisms that post-revolutionary societies loath, since those behaviours were characteristic in dandies from high society. Doesn't help either that the dandy itself represents a total lack of usefulness for societies. Dandies lived off liching riches from lower stratuses or wasting the riches they inherited from their families. I've met several feminine dudes that are indeed useless intentionally just to keep up with their taken feminine role.

Tl;dr version:

Feminine males are loathed due the historical background related to pre-revolutionary eras where those feminine traits were actually related to high societies rather than only women. Modern societies get a vibe of uselessness from such attitudes in males and don't celebrate them like on females because of social evolution. Such traits on a male are an involuntary reminder of social injustice and stratification.

Edited by Jesse Terrence
  • Brohoof 3
Link to comment
Share on other sites

Create an account or sign in to comment

You need to be a member in order to leave a comment

Create an account

Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!

Join the herd!

Sign in

Already have an account? Sign in here.

Sign In Now
×
×
  • Create New...