Is Sunset Shimmer treated unfairly? Learning from bad examples?

[ManaMinori 4,143]

Does Sunny just seem to get the short end of the stick by the writers as well as her new friends? Frankly, I think she does. The writers seem to constantly put her in situations that the mane 6 would never have to deal with with their own friends/ actions and portray Sunny's human friends as pretty poop friends, with how they treat poor Sunset Shimmer.

 

Examples I've spotted that support this:

 

1: “Equestria Girls the Movie”- At the end of the first movie, Sunset was expected to apologize and clean up the messes that she made as punishment (whereas in the series, the Mane 6 never seem to apologize for what trouble and chaos they cause, nor do they get punished for their actions)

 

2: “Equestria Girls- Rainbow Rocks”- Sunny is supposedly 'forgiven' of her past mistakes by her 'friends', the mane 5, but they keep making it a point to bring up her past errors, in conversation, whenever she's around, continuously reminding her of how awful she was- whether it's intentional or not. (And I hardly believe that it's unintentional, unless the mane 5 are completely unaware that Sunny's part of their group and follows them everywhere, and if she's in immediate line of vision and close proximity to them- and she is 99% of the time, then there's really no excuse for that). To say “no offense” when you continuously drag up someone's past bad behavior and throw it in their face, isn't an acceptable apology.

 

3: Even the principal/ vice principal still distrust her....having the cajones to accuse Sunny as “being eager to make someone else out to be a bad element, so that her actions at the Fall Formal will become old news.” after she willingly repaired their bloody school in the first movie (undoubtedly by herself). (isn't that against child labor laws, and- I dunno- even dangerous for someone who isn't a contractor?) They risked having Sunny make repairs to a building that could potentially collapse onto her, and then hit her with a low blow, accusing her out of the blue of trying to make the Dazzlings look bad, after she already turned over her new leaf. Harsh, man. Harsh.

 

4: Twilight, herself, distrusts Sunny. Even when its Sunny, not the mane 5, is the first to run to her and extends her hand, when she flies out the portal. (In spite of Twilight, herself being the first to offer her hand to Sunny in the first movie. Or been the one to suggest that Sunny open herself up to making friends in the first place)

 

5: Apple Jack (after earlier calling Sunny a “crazed lunatic”, and shrugging it off with a “no offense”, states- while Sunny's in her presence at the Cake's cafe- that the gang has nothing to worry about now that Twilight's back. COMPLETELY failing to credit Sunny for being the only one to realize that they were up against dark magic, in the first place, and failing to rely on her instead of Twilight.

 

6: Mane 5 invited Twilight to join their band, in spite of it being Sunset Shimmer who pitched the suggestion of fighting fire with fire (or music with music) against the Dazzlings, to defeat them (even when Twilight didn't have the answer on how to defeat them).

 

7: Sunny prevented Rainbow Dash from getting too carried away and showing her magic to the Dazzlings before the finale, and her “friends” got mad at her.

 

8: 2014 EQG holiday special in the IDW comics- which takes place after Rainbow Rocks, Sunset Shimmer's “friends” still treat her horribly, after Sunset proved herself changed to such a degree that she was able to transform with the elements of harmony and help the Mane 5 save the world from the sirens. The Mane 5 turn on Sunny; judging her at the drop of a hat, and leaving her sobbing on the floor (not to mention none of them notice Sunny being homeless and living in the library, or offered to take her into their home, as they did with Twilight) But even after all that, Sunny quickly (perhaps TOO quickly) forgives them, while none of them apologized to her.

 

9: “Sunset Shimmer's Time to Shine” chapter book- Mane 5 (again) not giving Sunny credit where its due. After Flash Sentry aske shen Twilight will return, A.J brings up that if it weren't for her, they never would've defeated the Sirens. Sunset Shimmer has to remind the gang that she helped, too. (and it was, in actuality, with her help- not Twilight's- that they kicked Siren butt)

 

10: Not even Pinkie (the one who has everybody as a friend and knows what each individual likes/ dislikes) know what Sunset- her supposed friend likes. After Pinkie buys and decorates some pillows with matching decals for their friends (RD's having a soccer ball, AppleJack's having a lasso, Fluttershy's having a bunny, and Rarity's having a high-heeled shoe), Pinkie decorates Sunset Shimmer's pillow with......a setting sun. =_= And when Sunny sees it, in comparison with everyone else's pillow, she's saddened and dissatisfied, seeing that all her other friends had pillows with decals of something that made them special, and Pinkie didn't do that for hers, but just made a decal representing her name.

 

11: Trixie starts spreading lies about Sunset to the entire school and making them believe that she's trying to call the Sirens back, as well as not attending the fashion show that Sunny not only pitched the idea of, but the theme, as well as organizing everything in it within the short span of a week (and Sunset is quick to believe that it wasn't her doing (even though it was) and befriends Trixie, on top of that. )

 

Questions for discussion:

 

1: Would you remain friends with EQG's mane 5  (or anyone) if they treated you like they treated Sunny- continuously dragging up your past misdeeds, not thinking you'd take offense to it, making you feel bad about yourself, not giving you credit where its due, relying on someone else help rather than your own, blaming you for something you didn't do and failing to apologize afterwards, spreading lies to people about you?

 

2: Should Sunny remain friends with the 5, continuing to forgive them (with or without apologies on their part), in spite of all this? Are these the kind of friends Sunny really should be keeping around, as supposed "role-models" to help her better learn about friendship?

 

3: Were the Dazzlings actually the ones most helpful to Sunset Shimmer, by confirming that her 'friends' were excluding her in their activities, and possibly having Sunset re-evaluate if they're really her friends or not?

[Singe 2,109]

1. They are teenagers. Teenagers in fiction tend to be jerks at times.

2. EQG5 were asked to watch over SS as a favor to TS by the end of the first movie. 

3. EQG5 are still at times blinded by their mistrust and bias. They see TS as the hero who could do no wrong and SS who could still stray.

4. SS still has enemies.

[The Awesome One 1,314]

SS has to deal with a lot of shit but maybe she does deserve it because of the fact that she turned into a DEMON and planned to turn everyone else into mindless zombies. That is no small thing.

 

The human Mane 5 are teenagers and they can be inconsiderate at times. Sunset is mature enough to let it slide and all is well.

 

Lastly, if I were in Celestia or Luna's place, I would not trust Sunset at all but after the events of Rainbow Rocks, I think the whole school saw that Sunset helped saved the day and most of them should not be so hostile to her in the third movie. However, they will probably never let her forget what she did in the first movie.

[Jeremiah 1,586]

Everyone can turn, for Sunset she made the school an army, and in the IDW comic was 'framed' for the creation of that fake account (I can recall the name) so yeah she has been threw alot... ALOT

[Singe 2,109]

It's a really a high bar since Sunset Shimmer did all the bad things freely of her own will. It could be that she's her true self or the Rainbow Magic brainwashed her.

[Jeremiah 1,586]

It's a really a high bar since Sunset Shimmer did all the bad things freely of her own will. It could be that she's her true self or the Rainbow Magic brainwashed her.

She was corrupted after she got power mad, maybe when she got defeated maybe her true self was revealed....

[Singe 2,109]

She was corrupted after she got power mad, maybe when she got defeated maybe her true self was revealed....

 

The others in EG would likely just see Sunset Shimmer as just a malicious person with no excuses to her being that way. There is no straight explanation of how Unicorn corruption works.

 

3: Even the principal/ vice principal still distrust her....having the cajones to accuse Sunny as “being eager to make someone else out to be a bad element, so that her actions at the Fall Formal will become old news.” after she willingly repaired their bloody school in the first movie (undoubtedly by herself). (isn't that against child labor laws, and- I dunno- even dangerous for someone who isn't a contractor?) They risked having Sunny make repairs to a building that could potentially collapse onto her, and then hit her with a low blow, accusing her out of the blue of trying to make the Dazzlings look bad, after she already turned over her new leaf. Harsh, man. Harsh.

 

Celestia and Luna have been lenient on Sunset Shimmer. Sunset Shimmer's total overall actions are more than enough to have gotten her expelled. Only the demon school destruction was given a weird but light punishment while all the other malicious things she has done is ignored. Celestia and Luna still distrust Sunset Shimmer because she put on a facade for years and lied to them.

 

What has Sunset Shimmer actually done to regain their trust?  Nothing so far.

 

Sunset Shimmer is having a hard time. She claims to have changed for the better, but we don't see her doing anything much with it. The damage that was done by her malicious actions hasn't magically gone away.

Edited May 23, 2015 by Singe

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

I don't think Sunset is treated unfairly because she did do a lot of damage not just when she became a demon, but also before she stole Twilight's crown. I do think now she's very sorry for what she did and wants to atone for her mistakes in the past, but she's going to have to do something so everyone else in the school sees her as changed.

[Singe 2,109]

The point that Sunset Shimmer still has enemies shows that the malicious damage she's done prior to the first movie is still there. Now either Sunset Shimmer is choosing not to repair that damage, has no idea at the time to repair that damage, or is just currently incapable because of certain things.

 

As long that damage is still around, that ball and chain will be thrown back in her face.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Singe

[Lunar Glow 674]

1. No! Of course not! I used to have a "friend" that treated me badly about my love for my little pony, my past. (Me sorta being a clutz, me mistaking simple things.) Sunny is too good of a person to be associated with those jerks. Now, having said this, this is only on the human side. The ponies would have welcomed her. 

 

2.Again, no!  I don't know what Hasbro was thinking when setting such a example for little girls making new friends. It is showing them that you should not make new friends despite their past and that you should shut them out.

 

3. Actually, this was one of the main reasons why I liked the Dazzlings. They may be evil, but at least they don't lie. They showed Sunny what was going on, and were honest with her. At that point in the movie, Sunny opened up her eyes and noticed how badly she was being treated.

 

SO, yes. I really do think that Sunny has a lot of potential friendship flowing through her, but she is being used by her "friends".

[LyraBae 82]

Here is my opinion on this topic.

 

Sunset Shimmer actually wanted to KILL Twilight Sparkle. She was about to commit murder, and she was treated very fair for someone who was about to kill. Applejack should call her a lunatic, as she wanted to see death. Just because Sunny said "sowwy" doesn't mean she should be forgiven right then. It takes along time to be forgiven for that. She should be jailed for what she did. 

[ManaMinori 4,143]

Here is my opinion on this topic.

 

Sunset Shimmer actually wanted to KILL Twilight Sparkle. She was about to commit murder, and she was treated very fair for someone who was about to kill. Applejack should call her a lunatic, as she wanted to see death. Just because Sunny said "sowwy" doesn't mean she should be forgiven right then. It takes along time to be forgiven for that. She should be jailed for what she did. 

your point? Luna tried to kill Celestia, but SHE was forgiven far more easily than Sunset was, and no one held onto HER past misdeeds. Not even Celestia. I think Sunny would've been been in MUCH better care returning to Equestria and making friends, rather than stay in the human world with "friends" who continue to hold her past over her head, mistrust her, when they say they've forgiven her, and continue to mistreat her- blaming her for crimes she didn't commit, spreading lies about her, ect.

[LyraBae 82]

Sunset tried to destroy Equestria with her own teenage army, and tried to kill Princess Twilight. Now, what did Luna do. I wanna kill Celestia and bring about eternal night! She wasn't trying to destroy anything, just trying to make night last forever. Night lasting forever is harmless. (Besides the lack of food, but that wasn't in her plan)

[ManaMinori 4,143]

Sunset tried to destroy Equestria with her own teenage army, and tried to kill Princess Twilight. Now, what did Luna do. I wanna kill Celestia and bring about eternal night! She wasn't trying to destroy anything, just trying to make night last forever. Night lasting forever is harmless. (Besides the lack of food, but that wasn't in her plan)

Are you kidding me? Really? Night lasting forever is harmless? Luna's crimes stacked far higher than Sunset Shimmers, dear. As i said- she planned on being the ONLY princess, which meant that she had to try and kill her sister- which she attempted to do. She tried to make night last forever- whether it was part of her plans or not (no, really, it should've been, seeing as how she lived for over 1k years, she should've had common sense to realize that ponies need the sun and that without it, they'd die, plants won't grow, the earth would literally freeze and kill everything- not just plants and ponies, but other species). And no one held a grudge or held it over her head continuously, or any of that crap, after she became good again.

 

all Sunny did was steal a crown, try to kill Twilight (again- Luna tried to do the same), and only mind-controlled some teenagers- never really put any of them in physical danger, like Luna. And people still hold it over her head, long after the events occurred. People who call themselves her friend, and that they've "forgiven" her. You forgive someone, you don't continue to do that crap.

[LyraBae 82]

You gotta be kidding me.

 

Food doesn't grow because of eternal night, but I seem to remember unicorns can emit light from their horns. If a foal like Snips or Snails can, then I bet unicorns can make bunches of light. Luna only wanted to hurt her sister, bring eternal night, and rule Equestria. While Sunset tried to kill Princess Twilight, rule the human world, rule Equestria, and enslave all with hypnosis. Her hypnosis will mean they'll fight against 3 gods, and a chock full of ponies! That's gonna hurt them. Which one has more evilness in it.

Edited May 24, 2015 by LyraBae

[ManaMinori 4,143]

You gotta be kidding me.

 

Food doesn't grow because of eternal night, but I seem to remember unicorns can emit light from their horns. If a foal like Snips or Snails can, then I bet unicorns can make bunches of light. Luna only wanted to hurt her sister, bring eternal night, and rule Equestria. While Sunset tried to kill Princess Twilight, rule the human world, rule Equestria, and enslave all with hypnosis. Her hypnosis will mean they'll fight against 3 gods, and a chock full of ponies! That's gonna hurt them. Which one has more evilness in it.

Plants grow with sunlight. Photosynthesis kinda requires it. No sun, no plant growth, and stuff dies. You think the measly amount of light from a unicorn horn works as sunlight does? Not to mention that pony magic is exhaustible, and depending on the pony, they can only generate that magic for limited amounts of time- certainly not forever, like a certain massive, glowing flaming star. =_=

But whatever. Eternal night according to you, doesn't make the entire world suffer and die, but ruling a single school and pitting them against ponies- who'd obviously show restraint and compassion so as not to harm them, if they even made it through the portal (which they didn't, mind you) is a far worse sin, according to you. Ok, sure.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Nightmare Muffin

[LyraBae 82]

Has the series told us that the light that a unicorn emits isn't able to be used for plants? No, they've never said that. And the measly light coming from a unicorn horn was only shown by Snips and Snails, which had dim lights from their horns. Now, if a filly can make that much light, what would be coming from a full grown unicorn horn?

 

And I'm not trying to say that Eternal Night isn't bad, but I'm saying it's not the worst. Like Midnight Castle was a much scarier use of eternal night.

 

 And ruling a single school? More like a dimension. Have you listened to Twilight's ballad?  "But when I look a little harder it starts to feel familiar too!" That means people in Equestria have doubles of themselves in a high school that is now ruled by a power crazy she-demon. But you know, having a double-of-equestria army and then some random backgrounders is just a wee problem for Equestria.

 

(You're a really good debater by the way. You've made some really good points!  )

[Singe 2,109]

Nightmare Moon/Luna wanted to be loved (not feared) equally just as Princess Celestia from her subjects. Allowing her subjects to struggle, starve, and die would be contrary to her motive.

 

Sunset Shimmer prior to the EG movie has malicious went after students and made enemies of them. She was destroying their friendships and splitting them up to maintain some illusion of dominance in the school.

[ManaMinori 4,143]

Nightmare Moon/Luna wanted to be loved (not feared) equally just as Princess Celestia from her subjects. Allowing her subjects to struggle, starve, and die would be contrary to her motive.

 

Sunset Shimmer prior to the EG movie has malicious went after students and made enemies of them. She was destroying their friendships and splitting them up to maintain some illusion of dominance in the school.

But you have to look at the facts. Luna was over 1000 years old when she decided that she's step out of Celestia's shadow and try to get the ponies to love her. She was at an age where she should've realized the consequences to her actions, if she had succeeded in making the night last forever. While it wasn't her intention to struggle, starve, and die- that's exactly what would've happened if there was no sun for the ponies and everyone else on the planet.

 

contrary to that, Sunny was nowhere near as old (though that's not to say that her age should've blinded her to the consequences of her own actions, since its been established that she's smarter than the average pony and student classmates) But what she did was nowhere near in the realm of  the very likely worldwide genocide of every existing species that Luna was dangerously close to doing, when she went Nightmare Moon. (and easily forgiven for, afterward)

[Singe 2,109]

They are a magical society with more than a 1000 years of diverse powerful magical knowledge. I wouldn't count them out just yet until all possible magical options have been exhausted.

 

Nightmare Moon only succeeded at kidnapping Princess Celestia. Her eternal night never took off past day 1 because the obstacles Celestia first time and Mane 6 the second time both stopped it. There is no lingering damage or aftereffects from Nightmare Moon's actions. Most of Nightmare Moon's legend for the 1000 years is just story as she only existed for a moment to battle Celestia one time and lose.

 

Sunset Shimmer on the other hand was successful at any malicious thing she wanted to do for three years, unchallenged. The scorn Sunset Shimmer gets is because she made an enemy out of everyone she maliciously went after personally during her three years of dominance. Sunset Shimmer did earn that level of hate that even drove some to seek revenge against her.

Edited May 24, 2015 by Singe

[The Awesome One 1,314]

Sunset was an evil bitch who turned into an evil demon and very nearly succeeded in turning the student body into a personal zombie army. I guess you could say she deserved the shit she had to go through in the secend movie. Didn't lose her cool though even when the Mane 6 carelessly kept bringing up what she did in the first movie so kudos to her for that.

[Ickery 49]

In the Canterlot High universe, rules and punishments are more expected because it mimics our own society.

Equestria is a malleable cartoon world and more forgiving for stuff like property damage, and runs more on the "no harm no foul" rule.

[ManaMinori 4,143]

In the Canterlot High universe, rules and punishments are more expected because it mimics our own society.

Equestria is a malleable cartoon world and more forgiving for stuff like property damage, and runs more on the "no harm no foul" rule.

all the more reason why it was a HORRIBLE idea for Sunny to try and make friends and a fresh start in the human world, instead of going back to Equestria for a second chance, if you ask me. Ponies are BY FAR more forgiving.

[Ickery 49]

I don't know, Sunset was a terrible person for years. If she was so in Equestria she wouldn't be forgiven that quickly either.

And escaping into the pony world feels like escaping from her past. She didn't want to let her past actions define her, so she stayed to try to make amends. Hence the message of that music video

Edited May 24, 2015 by Ickery