S05:E13 - Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep?

[cider float 2,535]

If Cheerilee saw Big Mac as a princess she's probably going to say "We got to talk... like first of all why wasn't I in your dream... and why are you dressed like a princess?!??!"

 

Applejack: I have no comment.

[Biggybrony 244]

Forgive me if someone has mentioned this in this thread already but am I the only one who's bothered by the fact that Tank is in the episode? I know that there is quite little continuity between episodes but when did he come out of hibernation? Was there a celebration? What season is it now? You can't just wrench our hearts taking him away in such an emotional fashion and just have him fine a few weeks later with no mention.

[roptiriolg 49]

^ I wouldn't say episodes are going with the same time length as our world. I've seen it in other shows too - but even im MLP - Heart's warming eve' and other winter episodes - are happening at different weather season that when it was aired. Maybe it is already spring/summer in Equestria.

[Time Shield 402]

Forgive me if someone has mentioned this in this thread already but am I the only one who's bothered by the fact that Tank is in the episode? I know that there is quite little continuity between episodes but when did he come out of hibernation? Was there a celebration? What season is it now? You can't just wrench our hearts taking him away in such an emotional fashion and just have him fine a few weeks later with no mention.

 

It's been stated previously by the writers that the mid-season episodes don't necessarily fall in chronological order, which means this episode could have taken place prior to Tanks for the Memories.

[Grtxkkyz 387]

My, that sure was amazing! Quite an improvement over Sonneborn's previous chapters. There are lots of good things to talk about this episode. It seems like a thousand years of imprisonment in the moon wasn't enough for Luna to bear, which led to the creation of the Tantabus, so she could punish herself for all the evil she committed as Nightmare Moon. This makes her one of the most complex characters in the show. And each time she felt down and guilty, we all wanted to reach throughout the screen and give her a great hug. No doubt about it.

The dream sequences are very brilliant too and some are quite hilarious, even if they become nightmares (like RD's, a truly funny take that against overly cute child's programming) But the best sequence is indeed the climatic dream battle against the Tantabus involving ALL of Ponyville. Lots of awesome stuff! (Princess Big Mac, Flutterbat, Giant Derpy...)

The Tantabus itself is a very threatening and effective villain, and has a cool design to booth. Specially when it becomes a giant monstrous, pony-shaped creature. It's like an alicorn version of the Forest Spirit of Princess Mononoke. Quite Lovecraftian, and a formidable mid season boss. Totally loved this episode.

It's quite a shame we have to go through another hiatus, but it'll hopefully be less tedious this time.

[ThePoniMan 164]

I really liked this episode, like most episodes. Although the whole "Luna best princess" thing kind of annoys me a bit, it was good to see a Luna episode again!

 

HOWEVER, there was one major plot hole that really made me angry. The main issue with catching the Tantabus was that it would constantly jump across dreams... If it is inevitably going to go into someone's dream, then why wouldn't they just have one of the Mane 6 sleep to isolate it? Then Luna would only have to stay in one dream, and the whole issue with infecting the whole town would hopefully not even happen. Other than that, it was a great episode.

[NavelColt 22,876]

Wait, she sleeps at night?  WHAT THE BUCK?!?!  And lo, behold, a million headcanons were suddenly snuffed out into violent oblivion!    Also, tragic element if apparently she has the same dream every night, and it never ends happily, oh my gosh, that is so sad! 

 

Nah bruh, pretty sure she passed out from fatigue. owo She was straining to keep a town-wide dream running. Hell, Luna was essentially using her entire power to keep a Legends of Equestria server open for a full 10 minutes. That's some crazy shit.

 

This episode was pure mmmmm. My only gripe about the entire thing was, I felt they mentioned the motives of the creature way too often. There were at least six different times the, 'it will escape and engulf all of Equestria!' was mentioned by Luna, alone. Got a little tedious, won't lie. 

 

But really, fabulous all around. Luna still isn't as awesome as Sun Horse to me, as I'm one of the few dedicated Celestia is Best Princess fans, but Luna is always top choice for character for character development opportunities. And it's great to see her dream powers be explored in an entire episode.

[Batbrony 15,994]

Nah bruh, pretty sure she passed out from fatigue. owo She was straining to keep a town-wide dream running. Hell, Luna was essentially using her entire power to keep a Legends of Equestria server open for a full 10 minutes. That's some crazy shit.

 

No, I meant at the beginning of the episode when she was dreaming and had her nightmare.   Her falling asleep at the end made perfect sense of course. 

[Time Shield 402]

I really liked this episode, like most episodes. Although the whole "Luna best princess" thing kind of annoys me a bit, it was good to see a Luna episode again!

 

HOWEVER, there was one major plot hole that really made me angry. The main issue with catching the Tantabus was that it would constantly jump across dreams... If it is inevitably going to go into someone's dream, then why wouldn't they just have one of the Mane 6 sleep to isolate it? Then Luna would only have to stay in one dream, and the whole issue with infecting the whole town would hopefully not even happen. Other than that, it was a great episode.

 

My guess is that it can stay with any pony that it "knows about", whether they're asleep or not.  (After all, if it had to be in a dream all the time, where would it have gone when Luna was awake, back when only she had it?)  This means it could probably escape to one of the six who were still awake and wait there until Luna wasn't hunting it anymore, or duck there whenever it doesn't want to get caught.  The only way to ensure that it had to be in a dream was to make sure everypony whom it could go to was asleep.

Edited July 16, 2015 by Time Shield

[ThePoniMan 164]

 

 

My guess is that it can stay with any pony that it "knows about", whether they're asleep or not.

 

In the end, we just don't have enough information about this thing, but I see your point here. Where does it go during the day?

 

I think we can all agree that Pinkie done goofed. When Luna said that it can only spread if other ponies are in the dream with it, I quickly tried to think of all the dreams, but couldn't remember that part at the end of Pinkie's where everyone comes out of the houses. Haha. 

[cider float 2,535]

I really liked this episode, like most episodes. Although the whole "Luna best princess" thing kind of annoys me a bit, it was good to see a Luna episode again!

 

HOWEVER, there was one major plot hole that really made me angry. The main issue with catching the Tantabus was that it would constantly jump across dreams... If it is inevitably going to go into someone's dream, then why wouldn't they just have one of the Mane 6 sleep to isolate it? Then Luna would only have to stay in one dream, and the whole issue with infecting the whole town would hopefully not even happen. Other than that, it was a great episode.

That's what you call bad writing.

[Time Shield 402]

That's what you call bad writing.

 

Nah, see my simple explanation a few posts up.

[cider float 2,535]

Nah, see my simple explanation a few posts up.

What you said is something the writers would say or do to cover up the mistake they made. No evidence of what you said was in the episodes and you can't have a nightmare if you're not asleep.

Edited July 16, 2015 by cider float

[ThePoniMan 164]

What you said is something the writers would say or do to cover up the mistake they made. No evidence of what you said was in the episodes and you can't have a nightmare if you're not asleep.

 

I agree. I like the explanation given, and that would make sense, but the show never addressed the issue. Since its such an unclear subject in the first place, it is never safe to assume things.

[cosmic_joke 28]

Honestly, if Discord had been in this episode, his nightmare either would have been him trapped in a normal world without his magic, re-encased in stone, or back on Star Trek (which really should have been the world he was going to send TreeHugger to!).

Luna punishing herself? Wow, that's so dark! I love it, it actually fits her.

I feel that there should have also been a nightmare Celestia, that would have MADE it!

The Tantabus at the end, morphing into a giant wavy Luna? Totally epic, great animation, wonderful imagery. I may use that, as a human, for a film one day.

And honestly here, it was Prince Macintosh, not Princess!

Golden Oaks lives again!

Fluttershy, tired of constantly being the caregiver, finally gets some time for herself.

My, that sure was amazing! Quite an improvement over Sonneborn's previous chapters. There are lots of good things to talk about this episode. It seems like a thousand years of imprisonment in the moon wasn't enough for Luna to bear, which led to the creation of the Tantabus, so she could punish herself for all the evil she committed as Nightmare Moon. This makes her one of the most complex characters in the show. And each time she felt down and guilty, we all wanted to reach throughout the screen and give her a great hug. No doubt about it.
The dream sequences are very brilliant too and some are quite hilarious, even if they become nightmares (like RD's, a truly funny take that against overly cute child's programming) But the best sequence is indeed the climatic dream battle against the Tantabus involving ALL of Ponyville. Lots of awesome stuff! (Princess Big Mac, Flutterbat, Giant Derpy...)
The Tantabus itself is a very threatening and effective villain, and has a cool design to booth. Specially when it becomes a giant monstrous, pony-shaped creature. It's like an alicorn version of the Forest Spirit of Princess Mononoke. Quite Lovecraftian, and a formidable mid season boss. Totally loved this episode.
It's quite a shame we have to go through another hiatus, but it'll hopefully be less tedious this time.

Well, the dreams could be interpreted as being one's deepest desires. Luna, obviously, wished to properly punish herself.

Big Macintosh regrets, to a certain extent, being an Earth Pony.

Fluttershy dislikes being so weak and vulnerable.

Spike wants to be the hero (even though he's practically a demi-god in the Crystal Empire; they've probably already forgotten the 'Cloudsdale Anthem'!)

Lyra and Bon-Bon (Sweetie Drops?) wish to be closer.

Twighlight STILL misses the Golden Oaks library quite a bit.

Scootaloo is very insecure about her small wings.

 

Any that I really missed?

[Truffles 2,033]

I think we can all agree that Pinkie done goofed. When Luna said that it can only spread if other ponies are in the dream with it, I quickly tried to think of all the dreams, but couldn't remember that part at the end of Pinkie's where everyone comes out of the houses. Haha. 

 

And you bring up a good point that made me realize something after rewatching the episode - there is yet another even bigger plothole: Pinkie dreams of the residents of Ponyville after it has left her dream for AJ! So it should not have known about any of the other ponies and thus the whole third act should not have taken place the way it did!

 

The only beings that were dreamed about by the Mane 6 while it was in them was

1. Angel (during Fluttershy's dream) and
2. The big red dragon (during Pinkie's dream).

So the Tantabus should only have been able to infect those two's dreams in addition to the Mane 6 after the initial attempt by Luna to capture it....

[LHfunk 422]

And you bring up a good point that made me realize something after rewatching the episode - there is yet another even bigger plothole: Pinkie dreams of the residents of Ponyville after it has left her dream for AJ! So it should not have known about any of the other ponies and thus the whole third act should not have taken place the way it did!

 

The only beings that were dreamed about by the Mane 6 while it was in them was

• Angel (during Fluttershy's dream) and
• The big red dragon (during Pinkie's dream).

So the Tantabus should only have been able to infect those two's dreams in addition to the Mane 6 after the initial attempt by Luna to capture it....

I don't think the Tantabus has to be physically present in the dream to be able to go to other ponies that are dreamed. I think that the Tantabus invades the mind, finding out how to make a pony have a nightmare, so part of it goes into the dream to make a it a nightmare. This means it would still know what happens in another ponies dreams while it is in a different ponies.

[crisahys 149]

My favorite part of the show was where Angel turns into a giant monster in Fluttershy's dream. I decided to catch up on a couple of episodes due to me taking a small break from watching MLP shows. Other than that, the tantabus is my favorite type of entity now. For me as an artist, I would like to use it to gain inspiration for my art if I ever got a hold of it. 

[Truffles 2,033]

I don't think the Tantabus has to be physically present in the dream to be able to go to other ponies that are dreamed. I think that the Tantabus invades the mind, finding out how to make a pony have a nightmare, so part of it goes into the dream to make a it a nightmare. This means it would still know what happens in another ponies dreams while it is in a different ponies.

 

Sounds reasonable, though they should have brought up that fact in the exposition. The Mane 7 would probably like to know that a small part of the Tantabus will continue to live in them for the rest of their lives.... 

[Xiflelin 72]

I enjoyed the episode a lot. I feel like it gave a lot of people, including myself, a lot of closure about Luna's backstory. I feel like now we won't have to worry so much about Luna regretting her past.

[Adamgreen 1,129]

This episode make me want to give Luna a hug! But seeing Big Mac became an alicorn, best moment ever!

[Swifty 249]

Evil giant Angel bunny was scary and cute at the same time.

[Mr Underhill 219]

If only we could forgive ourselves for our own past mistakes as easily as Luna did.

[Singe 2,109]

Princess Luna: I created it to punish myself for all the pain I brought to you all as Nightmare Moon.

Twilight Sparkle: That's not true. I've seen what happened. You were just jealous of your sister, changed into Nightmare Moon, and Celestia beat you in a few minutes.

Princess Luna: Wait, how did you know?
Twilight Sparkle: I drunk an Alicorn potion to see the past.

Princess Luna: Was it white?

Twilight Sparkle: Yes.

Princess Luna: Oh my...you really don't know what it was made from?

Twilight Sparkle: No. Zecora wouldn't spill it.

Princess Luna:  Fine, I'll tell you about it later. I'm still guilty of what I've done as Nightmare Moon.

Rainbow Dash: Are you still going on about that?

Princess Luna: What?

Rainbow Dash: As a villain, the legend was way better than the real deal.

Rarity: Rainbow Dash.

Princess Luna: I don't understand.

Rainbow Dash: You kidnapped Celestia. Even though I think she was just playing along so Twilight got the spot light.

Twilight Sparkle: *Embarrassed*

Rainbow Dash: You've only been free for less than an hour. Then you throw lame trials at us. A thorn in a manticore's foot, scary trees, and making a sea serpent cry about his mustache. Finally the Shadow Bolts, talk about unoriginal. We got the Elements of Harmony and easily blasted you back to normal.

Princess Luna: So what are you saying?
Rainbow Dash: I'm saying you shouldn't feel bad for being such a weak villain.

Princess Luna: I was weak as Nightmare Moon.

Rainbow Dash: Yeah, mostly talk.

Twilight Sparkle: Oh, wow. It's being torn apart by the other ponies.

Princess Luna: Thank you for freeing me from guilt. Though I'm rather disappointed about being called weak.

Rainbow Dash: Don't mention it.

Fluttershy: If I may make a suggestion?

Princess Luna: Yes.

Fluttershy: You have self issues like me. I know a psychiatrist who could help you with them.

Edited July 19, 2015 by Singe

[Sazama Ichida 2,352]

If only we could forgive ourselves for our own past mistakes as easily as Luna did.

What are you talking about? This episode showed that Luna still felt guilty and had not forgiven herself...