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S05:E13 - Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep?


Jeric

S05:E13 - Do Princesses Dream of Magical Sheep?  

318 users have voted

  1. 1. Did you like it?

    • No, I hated it! >:(
      6
    • I didn't like it.
      13
    • Meh. It was okay.
      18
    • I liked it!
      82
    • I LOVED IT! <3
      199


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6 hours ago, Pixel Stick said:

I agree to some extent.  I don't think it was a movie-length plot, but it certainly could have (and should have) been done in a two-part episode - the subject matter was just too complex and too big of a plot to tackle in a single 22-minute episode.  I personally felt that the story was solid and, even with the fan-service bits, helped to explore a big issue for Luna in a way that I personally can relate to.  But I also agree that we didn't get a good sense of its resolution because it was just too hastily done, and it gives viewers the impression that Luna just did the pony equivalent of snapping her fingers and *boom* everything's all good now.  Nobody, not even little kids, can realistically relate to that.

I firmly believe that the writers fully intended to show everyone that Luna realized that the first step to healing was to forgive herself and to stop punishing herself.  In fact, they had the Mane 6 more or less whack her over the head with that point repeatedly.  But in my opinion, the reason this wasn't clear was that they simply ran out of time - perhaps because they focused more on the fan service than they should have.  Luna forgives herself, she destroys the Tantibus, the Mane 6 wake up and wrap up the episode, and we see Luna sleeping peacefully, all in the last 30 seconds of the episode.  Even if this had been extended by another 20-30 seconds or so, they could have slipped in an extra line that would have redeemed this conclusion perfectly - something like:

  • Pinkie Pie: "Look, Luna looks... happy!"
  • Twilight Sparkle: "I guess it worked!"
  • Rainbow Dash: "ALL RI-"
  • Everyone else: "SHHHH!"
  • Rainbow Dash: "Uh... (whispering) I mean, all right!"
  • Twilight Sparkle: "She's going to have a long way to go, but for now, let's let her sleep.  I'll go wake up Princess Celestia."
  • Zoom in on Luna, then show the final shot of her dream.

See, if they'd done something like that, I think we wouldn't be having this discussion at all.  I'd be willing to put money on the writers and directors having considered something like this, and cutting it because they were just plain out of time in the episode.  And I've seen that happen in a number of other episodes as well.

I think some of the best story arcs probably could have been a whole season all its own.   I still think Magic Sheep should have been a movie or two see could see in more length and greater detail what Luna is going through with all the stuff that is stewing in her heart and the damage the Tantibus is causing.   I do like the changes you would make with the ending.

5 hours ago, AlexanderThrond said:

I think you'd need to get rid of the dream entirely to make it work. It's just way too tidy an ending. 

  I love the Dream part, she looks like she is sleeping in the Forbidden City form Final Fantasy 7.   What would you think if they touched up the ending abit and added a small dark part only a few viewers would catch there first viewing, and it appears to have two outline of evil eyes watching Luna as she sleeps?   It would also work well with the Luna novel because she is still fighting Nightmare Moon and hasn't fully recovered from being her and technically the events with the Tantibus, but that last part is subjective.

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(edited)

I was thinking a bit more about this over the weekend and just wanted to mention that, in general, I still find myself going back to the first two seasons for examples of how the writing was usually much more on-point.  At that time, the series seemed a lot more innocent and slice-of-life, and most of the episodes (with a few notable exceptions) seemed to be focused more on the day-to-day issues with smaller life lessons.  Granted, they still beat us over the head with the morals, but in most cases the stories weren't rushed, they made sense, they were relatable, and they didn't require "prior knowledge" or depend on continuity.  There also wasn't a focus on fan service at the time either.

I kinda miss those days.  As the show has aged, it seems we have more of an emphasis on the larger story arcs, and the lessons and plots are more complex, and as a result we see more of these cases where there's just too much to cover in a single episode.  I think Magical Sheep is a great poster-child of that problem - the plot calls for high drama, but the drama seems ham-fisted.  It requires that we either already know about Luna's past issues or be able to fill in the details because there's not enough time to detail them in a meaningful way.  It wraps up too quickly because, again, there's not enough time.  And the presentation gets mired down by too many conflicting priorities, one of which is the obvious fan service (Flutterbat, the conjoined ponies, etc.).

I feel like this kind of episode should require the producers, writers and Hasbro execs to sit down together and figure out if they're still really meeting their goals.  Remember that at its core, MLP:FIM is (and always has been) an advertising vehicle for Hasbro's toy line, and we've seen some rather obvious places where Hasbro has stepped in and said "You need to create THIS thing so we can sell a new line" - e.g. the Rainbow Power series and the Crystal Castle play set.  While we always have and will always have to contend with that, I wonder how far out of touch with their target audience they're getting.

Don't get me wrong, I love the fan service and I think it's great that they're sending shout-outs to the Brony community periodically.  But as I said, episodes like Magical Sheep feel (to me, anyway) like symptoms of them trying too hard and losing focus.  I can't help but think that kids would be entertained by the flashy animation but confused by the overall plot, and obviously us older fans have had mixed reactions, particularly around how much projection and "filling in the gaps" each of us is willing to do.

Kinda rambly, but hopefully I've articulated my point well enough.  Thanks.

Edited by Pixel Stick
Fix a dangling quote
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On 7/27/2018 at 6:54 PM, AlexanderThrond said:

I guess it's mostly the contrast for me; without any suggestion of ongoing recovery, there's the sense that now she will sleep easily forevermore. And of course, your suggestions would help with that. What I don't know is if something like this would really lead to such peace. 

As for anything more specific, I don't want to talk out of line, as I've never had any inclination towards self-harm.  

Apparently, a follow-up wasn't an option for the writers, not that it would help this episode.

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  • 2 months later...
On 7/31/2018 at 3:29 AM, Pixel Stick said:

I was thinking a bit more about this over the weekend and just wanted to mention that, in general, I still find myself going back to the first two seasons for examples of how the writing was usually much more on-point.  At that time, the series seemed a lot more innocent and slice-of-life, and most of the episodes (with a few notable exceptions) seemed to be focused more on the day-to-day issues with smaller life lessons.  Granted, they still beat us over the head with the morals, but in most cases the stories weren't rushed, they made sense, they were relatable, and they didn't require "prior knowledge" or depend on continuity.  There also wasn't a focus on fan service at the time either.

I cannot agree more. The episode itself wasn't bad, but as much as I liked this episode, I could feel that MLP:FiM is slowly deviating from what it was - an innocent show for everyone, including kids. For some reason, this episode did not feel like the MLP:FiM I knew all along. It didn't have enough jokes, and felt really serious compared to other ordinary episodes. Except for 2-parters, I belive there aren't that many episodes that try to save the whole world. These kind of complex and serious stories should be saved for 2-parters, not for the regular season.

Although this is more about the show in general than this episode, I'll write this down since the topic came out: I prefer episodes that are more relatable, but since Twilight became a princess and got her own castle, the stories have been becoming more and more serious- related to royal diplomacy or other grand things. There are less episodes about everyday life the mane 6 go through, and I wish I could get more of those.

Also, I think fan-services should be more subtle. When they are too obvious to spot, and appear too regularly, it feels as if these jokes are actually a main part of the show. If a huge part of the show is only for some people who can understand them, this indicates that the show is for some manias, rather than everyone. They can be funny, but I think the way they are presented might need a bit of a change.

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I enjoyed the episode, the insight we get about the characters from this.

Rainbow Dash’s dream was most similar to my own. It’s fun to be a hero in your dreams.

Derpy being huge was rather sad. Since this is sort of their fantasy, does that mean she often views herself as smaller and less important than everyone else. Scootaloo’s dream wings indicate that “bigger” is compensating for something. Spike basically does the same thing as Derpy.

The problem is with Luna. It’s supposed to be her episode, and it really wasn’t. I liked what we got, but I would have preferred if the episode about Luna was actually about Luna.

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  • 3 months later...

Season 5 strikes again. This episode takes the Lucy Van Pelt approach to Depression of telling them to snap out of it. Except instead of satirizing bad advice, this episode is taking that message seriously and teaching it to little kids. Garbage.

Everything else is dull. None of the mane six's dreams are particularly interesting and all of the sequences of Luna chasing the Tantabus in their dreams play out nearly identically. I used to like the final fight, but now it comes off as desperate. As if the writers knew about the issues in the episode and just shoved in as much fan service as possible. There's nothing redeemable here aside from a few jokes scattered around, though even those aren't that good.

Score: 0/10

 

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  • 2 months later...

I feel bad for Luna. It's pretty sad, that for few years she was punishing herself with nightmares like this

The episode was kinda boring to be honest, but in the end it wasn't that bad; I liked it.

4/5; At least Luna can finally rest in peace. :love: :orly:

 

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I loved luna here, its clear she cares about the citizens and she struggles to forgive herself, I do wish this episode came earlier like season 2 or 3 it came kinda out of nowhere. Its exactly as I originally envisioned her character so I was really happy to see it.   The dream sequences were amazing and really creative, its the only way to see princes big mac and fluterbat again, not to speak of scootaloo flying.

However the dialog felt repetitive and a bit over the top at times, but the biggest issue for me is the ending, the mane 6 said to stop feeling this way and luna just does... it doesn't work like this, its more complicated then that, the ending just felt rushed. 

Overall it was enjoyable but could have been better. 8\10    

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  • 1 year later...

I love this episode. I feel really bad for her that she created the Tantabus to punish herself for what she did as Nightmare Moon. I wish we saw more dream episodes. Should have been more focus on the other ponies as this was more of a ponyville helping Luna, as everyone has the same powers in the dream. I found Derpy pretty cute in this. I think it would be interesting to see Nightmare Moon in the dream realm as well, wouldn't it be interesting?

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On 7/12/2015 at 7:00 PM, Music Chart Fan said:

I'll admit I'm not sure what Luna might have done pre-transformation that would have caused Equestria in general to suffer, considering that it seems to me like even Luna as Nightmare Moon did very little to interrupt the day-to-day lives of the average citizens of Equestria. But, of course, since Luna seems to be inflating her relatively minor misdeeds in her mind and feeling overly guilty about them, any pre-transformation misdeeds would be included in that.

Yeah... I'm still calling shenanigans on the part of the writers. If Luna had been causing great harm pre-transformation, she would have stated that in this episode. Instead, she only feels guilty for what she did to Equestria and the Mane 6 post-transformation. Which - amounted to nothing, really. Lol.

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  • 3 months later...

I love this one too.

Giving Luna more complexity by letting her deal with her past. The resolution of this episode at the end is very important and emphasis her character

Besides this mane main o.o plot there some details I like to mention

  • RD's having a nightmare by singing flowers (I feel you so much RD)
  • dream images of the other ponies like
  • Spike riding on a noble steed
  • having BigMac going Sailor Moon :blink:
  • Lyra and BonBon going CatDog (this is too silly even for me .. almost)
  • Luna's slippers

 

 

 

 

 

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This episode is a lot of fun! The dream sequences were awesome, I really love how creative it was, and it is a really great character growth for Luna.

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  • 10 months later...
On 2019-02-08 at 6:16 PM, bigbertha said:

Season 5 strikes again. This episode takes the Lucy Van Pelt approach to Depression of telling them to snap out of it. Except instead of satirizing bad advice, this episode is taking that message seriously and teaching it to little kids. Garbage.

think you missed the whole point of this episode, it's about self-forgiveness, not self-harm.

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  • 4 months later...

I wanna vent out my thoughts about the episode, so... here we are

I'll start off by saying this episode definitely has the best use for the concept of a dream. If you're a Luna fan, then you're obviously gonna love this episode as she's the center of the whole plot. The writers even expanded on the very idea of a dream, where you can basically become whatever you want and that what you dream can represent your personality. In fact, a lot of ponies - notably Big Mac and Fluttershy - show a new side of them through their representation of what they dream of.

Unfortunately, there's also that this episode was controversial, and for good reason. Simply put, if you're not a Luna fan, then you're less than likely to like the episode. The main lesson of this episode was self-forgiveness, but there were a lot of things about in that went against its favor. Though if there's one that stick out in my mind, it's the Tantabus itself. The reasons as to why it exist is highly questionable and Luna's explanation did not make sense in the slightest. Self-tormenting can be something that a victim of guilt could do, but this feels like they took it way too far.

This episode is highly controversial, there's no doubt about it. Aside from the animation and music, the story made no sense whatsoever and hindered from showing the message. It's unfortunate that it garnered a lot of debate from fans of the show, but there's definitely reasons from both sides they think so

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  • 3 months later...

I did think the dream sequence part was a lot of fun. Might be able to see why it’s controversial though.

I wonder if the Brotherhooves ep makes Big Mac becoming an alicorn in the dream have a little more depth.

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  • 3 months later...

Well .. I watched this episode again yesterday with some good friend together. I love this episode and oh my god this Meme potential here. Im already looking for the next watch of this episode

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  • 3 months later...

Rewatched this tonight. I love this episode, like with any episode that has Luna playing a major part. But man I can't help but feel like there was some missed potential here because of the limited runtime. Just would've liked to see more exploration of Luna's feelings about herself, maybe make the beginning dream scene a bit longer and more in depth. And make the whole "learn to forgive yourself" theme more prominent through the whole episode instead of kinda just popping up at the end.

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  • 7 months later...

This episode was done very well. Luna made the Tantabus out of guilt for what she did and it got out of control, only when she learned to forgive herself the problem could be fixed. The dream sequences were funny, and I enjoyed seeing Filthy Rich and Derpy.

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  • The title was changed to S05:E13 - Do Princesses Dream of Magic Sheep?

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