The Journal of the Two Sisters- canon?

[colt .45 259]

Often, when members of this forum ask questions about Celestia, Luna, or Starswirl the Bearded, I will use information that I have from having read "The Journal of the Two Sisters" by Amy Keating Rodgers to answer the question. I have seen other users cite the Journal to answer questions also. It seems that whenever the Journal of the Two Sisters is used to answer a question, inevitably someone will post a reply that the Journal is not canon, and therefore using it as an explanation is invalid.

 

I contend that The Journal of the Two Sisters IS canon. Here's why : the journal isn't just mentioned in passing in the show, Twilight Sparkle, the mane character of the show, actually studied the book! And whenever she quotes something from the book to her friends, those words are actually in the book. It's like whoever reads the book is reading exactly what Twilight read in the show.

Things from the book manifest in the show. In the book, Luna and Celestia discuss the design of the Castle of the Two Sisters in detail, in the episode "Castle-maneia", all those details are shown. Hall of hooves, Organ to the outside, the tapestries, etc. it's all in the book.

When I cite the Journal in response to a question, I assume that the member asking the question hasn't read the book, and I hope that they will be interested in reading it, as it has some great insight into Luna and Celestia, and how stuff works in Equestria. It is definitely a valuable companion piece to the show. But unlike the IDW comics, or Equestria Girls which are not canon, because nothing in them has any effect on the show, the Journal of the Two Sisters does affect the show.

So what do you think, is it just a great companion piece, or is it canon?

[silvadel 1,393]

It is semi-canon.  It does not have the strength of something that has been shown in the show, and could be countered at any time by the show itself, but it is stronger than most of the rest of the ancillary materials.

[Princess Lona 381]

Although I have never read it, it sounds pretty canon to me from your description. If the author took the time to make sure that everything Twilight quotes from the book in the show actually appears in the real published book, then yeah, canon.

[StitchandMLPlover 930]

In general the books are not considered canon but when I read part of Journal of The 2 Sisters off an internet post it seemed canon more or less. 

[SolyWack 482]

But unlike the IDW comics, or Equestria Girls which are not canon, because nothing in them has any effect on the show, the Journal of the Two Sisters does affect the show.

 

You must be a doctor, because that was the most hypocritical thing I have ever read on this site, and I make regular ventures to the debate pit.

 

Equestria Girls and the comics are very much canon with the show. The creators have even said so on multiple occassions that the IDW comics are canon, they are just 'less' canon than the show. I think this topic is the perfect place for some re-education on the word 'canon'

 

Its all based on a hierarchy (From top to bottom)

 

1) Main Canon: The original adaption of a series of Books, Tv shows, or movies. Everything that is said here is undisputable fact to the universe.

 

2) Side Canon: Anything made by the same people (or person) who created the main canon, but isnt part of the main series. This includes spin-offs, or medium adaptions. Everything presented here is canon, unless it contradicts #1, in which case #1 overrules.

 

3) Legend: This could also be called Educated Canon, or Headcanon. This category is not technically canon, but holds a lot of evidence in canon that heavily weighs it towards being true. This include Approved Fanfiction (by the creators), or fan theories that have been confirmed or heavily implied by creators, interactions that have been confirmed in every way except verbally (lyra and bon bon), and other special cases.

 

4) Non-Canon: This includes most Fanfiction, or fan works in general, as well as special entries in the main series deemed non-canon by creators (such as April Fools episodes). Anything that does not fit in #1,2, or 3 would logically go here.

[colt .45 259]

You must be a doctor, because that was the most hypocritical thing I have ever read on this site, and I make regular ventures to the debate pit.

Equestria Girls and the comics are very much canon with the show. The creators have even said so on multiple occassions that the IDW comics are canon, they are just 'less' canon than the show.

I think this is the most confrontational anyone has ever been while agreeing with me. Let the doctor fix that for you. "But unlike the IDW comics or Equestria Girls which are not MAIN canon..." Feel better now? (or should I edit that in the original post?)

This dose'nt change anything about my statements in the original post. So, if my symantics in the original post were not clear, I still contend that the Journal of the Two Sisters should be considered part of the main canon ( for all the same reasons I stated in the OP), as opposed to being side canon, like the comics or movies (for the same reasons).

[Swifty 249]

No. I pretend it never happened.

[GuyNamedEarl 1,332]

It's takes canon from the show and expands upon it and adds it's own stuff, so it's semi-canon in my opinion.

[colt .45 259]

No. I pretend it never happened.

What do you pretend didn't happen? That Twilight Sparkle didn't read/study a book called the Journal of the Two Sisters? Because that totally happened in the show.

[Swifty 249]

What do you pretend didn't happen? That Twilight Sparkle didn't read/study a book called the Journal of the Two Sisters? Because that totally happened in the show.

I don't want to believe that the content of the diary on TV is the same as in the book, because it's very rare, that i like the expanded universe like comics and books of a franchise.

Edited July 21, 2015 by Swifty

[colt .45 259]

I don't want to believe that the content of the diary on TV is the same as in the book, because it's very rare, that i like the expanded universe like comics and books of a franchise.

Cool,I can see that. I tried a couple of comics and found that the way the universe is expanded upon didn't do much for me. I have only read Equestria Girls chapter books (which is kinda odd now that I think about it) "Through the Mirror" I found to be meh... But ok. "Sunset Shimmers Time to Shine" I really like. That's why I made this thread. I wouldn't cite anything from either one of those books, to try to answer somebody's question about the show. But what I am saying is that I don't think that the Journal of the Two Sisters falls into the same category as side-canon works. I have no reason to believe, after having read it, that the book called "the Journal of the Two Sisters" that I purchased at Books-a-Million does not contain the same words as the book by the same name that Twilight reads in the show.

[SolyWack 482]

I think this is the most confrontational anyone has ever been while agreeing with me. Let the doctor fix that for you. "But unlike the IDW comics or Equestria Girls which are not MAIN canon..." Feel better now? (or should I edit that in the original post?)

This dose'nt change anything about my statements in the original post. So, if my symantics in the original post were not clear, I still contend that the Journal of the Two Sisters should be considered part of the main canon ( for all the same reasons I stated in the OP), as opposed to being side canon, like the comics or movies (for the same reasons).

Saying Not main canon and not canon at all are two very different things.

 

When you're arguing a point, you usually dont want to alienate people who are on your side by default (I.E. EQG and IDW fans).

 

I was on your side when you said the journal should be canon, but then you went ahead and said that EQG and the IDW comics werent.

 

Which makes no sense. Why would the journal be canon, but not EQG or IDW? Because Twilight said a few lines in the show? By your logic, those lines are canon, but not the entire book, because they "didnt have an effect on the show".

[Conred 274]

It's canon for Meghan. She base her movie in 2017 after that book and its plotpoints.

[dekutree64 711]

I consider it one notch short of absolute canon. Only the lines actually read in the show are undeniably canon, but since the book is written by Amy Keating Rogers (one of the main show writers), and specifically intended to be the book from the show, it has a lot more authority than other books. Pretty much Word of God level canon.

 

Or at least, it was. Now she jumped ship to Disney, so it's up to Meghan and the other writers to remember to keep the events of the book in mind when writing future show episodes. If they contradict the book, it could still be invalidated. If you want to keep your authority as a canon-creator, you gotta stick with the project until the end

 

I've never really liked the comics that much... just such a different feel from the show, and created by a different group, so I generally regard them as second tier canon. Believe it, or don't, whichever makes you happy. Like the EqG movies... except the movies are made by the main crew. But with specific instructions that we can skip them if we  want.

Edited July 22, 2015 by dekutree64

[EquestriaGuy 1,074]

let's pretend we asked Word of God what was in the Journal. The book from AKR is the response. It's absolutely canon, as far as I'm concerned.

[Commissar Alexer 763]

It's written by one of the writers with the approval of the head-writer, how much more canon can you get then?

[Swifty 249]

Meh. Then our wait for a detailed episode about the two sisters is in vain, because of a little, thin book.

But then, i expected so much from the griffin kingdom and we got a ruined 3rd world country without a leader.

Edited July 24, 2015 by Swifty