Did human Twilight deserve forgiveness?

[cuteycindyhoney 13,282]

Sunset Shimmer (when she was evil) wanted to conquer Equestria. Twilight, wanted to understand the magic she had discovered. I think that's totally different. Think about it. Sunset Shimmer tried to enslave her classmates and destroy the school. Twilight opened some random portals. Some students ALMOST fell into a couple, but didn't. If Sunset was forgiven, Twilight certainly should be too! After all, Twilight was manipulated into the whole situation by uncaring classmates and a real beatch of a principal. 

[ManaMinori 4,143]

@Ecntrix

Yes I am aware of that. Also Twilight had no clue who the mane 5 even are so she couldn't just go and ask. They were strangers to her and Twilight was always used to doing things on her own. And what could have Twilight done with that pendant? She couldn't seem to control it herself and wasn't aware of its abilities. She couldn't just destroy it either because who knows what could've happened then?

I'm just saying that Twilight had no dark intentions at all and she was brought to a point where she basically had no other choice. That's what peer pressure does to you. Especially when you feel that you're all alone and like there is really no one to come and stand up for you. I would think that others would have tried to be her friend but she turned them down to study. She just started to be mean to others, even when she was aware that others have tried to be friends with her. She always had the option to make up with others but didn't realize that until later.

Okay so how was she supposed to just put the pendant away? It could've gotten snatched up by the wrong hands! And maybe someone who really does have dark intentions. Putting it down was just too dangerous to risk as well.

She must have cared about hurting others becase like I've said, she stopped for a moment because of Spike. However, she wasn't very popular nor surrounded by people who have at least not treated her differently than how Crystal Prep did or she just didn't even know all that well.

Also, I understand that Sunset had pressure of her own but really. It's just common sense not to take it out on someone like that. It didn't give Twilight a good glimpse of friendship. I would think Sunset would understand how Twilight was treated. The way she was treated is something you can't just not see.. It is something hurtful to see as I guess Sunset would probably immediately recognize someone else if they were treated the way that Twilight was.

After Sunset seeing how the pony Twilight learned to not take all the trouble and try to solve everything by herself like in Rainbow Rocks. I would think that Sunset would also learn something from that. How Sunset shouldn't have tried to keep all that stress to herself.

One more thing... I think we can kinda blame Principal Sinch

it's also common sense, for a as smart a SciTwi is, to NOT build a device that 1:she didn't know how to use, and 2: couldn't turn off

 

That's common sense

I definitely think she deserves forgiveness, it wasn't her fault for any of the destruction, she was pressured into it by her principal and classmates and all she simply wanted was to find her own place in the world and fit in. I teared up at the scene where Sunset offers Twilight her hand in friendship and she accepts.

she put her future education above the lives of everyone. Even before she was pressure into it. It is her fault, I think.

[DeadAccount 4,603]

it's also common sense, for a as smart a SciTwi is, to NOT build a device that 1:she didn't know how to use, and 2: couldn't turn off

That's common sense

No what's common sense is that Principle Cinch is a better person to blame -_- And what was she supposed to do? Almost no one there she either didn't know or trust. She couldn't just leave it lying around either because of course it could've gotten into the wrong hands! And maybe even someone who actually does have dark intentions. And she didn't know how the device was going to be.. Edited September 28, 2015 by TwilightAqua

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

it's also common sense, for a as smart a SciTwi is, to NOT build a device that 1:she didn't know how to use, and 2: couldn't turn off

 

That's common sense

she put her future education above the lives of everyone. Even before she was pressure into it. It is her fault, I think.

How so? All she wanted was to go to Everton which was being held up by strings due to Cinch.

[ManaMinori 4,143]

No what's common sense is that Principle Cinch is a better person to blame -_- And what was she supposed to do? Almost no one there she either didn't know or trust. She couldn't just leave it lying around either because of course it could've gotten into the wrong hands! And maybe even someone who actually does have dark intentions. And she didn't know how the device was going to be..

so Cinch is to blame for SciTwi building something she has no buisiness making, and not knowing how to use, to get herself in deep shit. Ok.

Cinch is to blame for SciTwi caring more about a college than the lives of other students. If yoh say so.

 

Fact is, as soon as SiTwi heard that it was magic, from Sunset, after the motocross event, she could've stopped, and decided to ask more about it, returned the pendant, and turned arou d, before anything else could've happenned. IF she had tuly been sorry, then and there.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Nightmare Muffin

[Untitled Goose Q 5,136]

it's also common sense, for a as smart a SciTwi is, to NOT build a device that 1:she didn't know how to use, and 2: couldn't turn off

 

Seems to me she DID know how to use it... until it started responding to magic on its own.

 

Remember, she was trying to learn about something that she thought was just an unusual electromagnetic wave... she didn't know, couldn't know how dangerous it is.

 

She made a mistake, yes. But some of the greatest scientific feats were due to an accident!

 

Trying to learn is not a crime.

[ManaMinori 4,143]

How so? All she wanted was to go to Everton which was being held up by strings due to Cinch.

and she was willing to risk everything just to go to Everton. That's the problem, I'm trying to point out. Education is important, but you don't put the lives of others before it. And if you do, you don't just apologize, and cause a ituation that puts others' lives at risk, again. She had a chance to make things right, after the motocross race, long before Cinch resorted to peer presure. And SciTwi didn't take that first chance, like Sunset, when given the option, in the first movie, did.

 

Also, she shouldn't known blackmail was wr to ng, right from the start. She should have wanted to prove she could get intocollege on her own skill, not by someone elses' influence.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Nightmare Muffin

[DeadAccount 4,603]

so Cinch is to blame for SciTwi building something she has no buisiness making, and not knowing how to use, to get herself in deep shit. Ok.

Cinch is to blame for SciTwi caring more about a college than the lives of other students. If yoh say so.

Like I said, Twilight had no idea that her device was going to have this outcome. -_- What matters is that she had no intention of hurting anyone. And she was being attacked on so many sides. She was put in a position where she had no choice. I think we all would've done what she did if we were in her exact position.

 

I am saying that it's Cinch's fault that the pendant was put into action. Yes some damage was done, but mostly Cinch's fault as it was her idea in the first place. And who said Twilight cared more about college than the lives of other students? Let's be real about this, Twilight, is most certainly not heartless. Twilight did not make that device to put other lives at risks. She only wanted to further herself in the knowledge of her world.

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

Like I said, Twilight had no idea that her device was going to have this outcome. -_- What matters is that she had no intention of hurting anyone. And she was being attacked on so many sides. She was put in a position where she had no choice. I think we all would've done what she did if we were in her exact position.

 

I am saying that it's Cinch's fault that the pendant was put into action. Yes some damage was done, but mostly Cinch's fault as it was her idea in the first place. And who said Twilight cared more about college than the lives of other students? Let's be real about this, Twilight, is most certainly not heartless. Twilight did not make that device to put other lives at risks. She only wanted to further herself in the knowledge of her world.

Well said she made the device to learn more about the strange magic.

[DeadAccount 4,603]

Well said she made the device to learn more about the strange magic.

Indeed, I don't see where she intended to harm anyone there.

[GuyNamedEarl 1,332]

They literally ripped the ending straight from the 1st movie, just with reversed roles.

[ManaMinori 4,143]

Like I said, Twilight had no idea that her device was going to have this outcome. -_- What matters is that she had no intention of hurting anyone. And she was being attacked on so many sides. She was put in a position where she had no choice. I think we all would've done what she did if we were in her exact position.

I am saying that it's Cinch's fault that the pendant was put into action. Yes some damage was done, but mostly Cinch's fault as it was her idea in the first place. And who said Twilight cared more about college than the lives of other students? Let's be real about this, Twilight, is most certainly not heartless. Twilight did not make that device to put other lives at risks. She only wanted to further herself in the knowledge of her world.

dunno, with as smart as Twi is, you'd think, that at some point, the thought of "these guys are jerks. I don’t want to help them win", or "these guys have been ignoring me from day 1. I told the guys on the other team that my school doesn't appreciate achievements that they don't get, themselves, I should probably reconsider helping them, since they won't appreciate my contribution, anyway. Orrrr, "mayyyybe I don't want to ride Cinch's coattails to get into Everton, and try to do it on my own, her influence be damned. I've done it all on my own so far..."

 

Hard to beleive, with her GRAND GENIUS MIND, nothing logical popped into her little purple head.

Edited September 28, 2015 by Nightmare Muffin

[KatonRyu 1,026]

She does, in my opinion. Twilight was lonely and she had literally zero friends. The only people she connected with were the ones whose magic she accidentally stole, after which Sunset blew up in her face. Then she was peer pressured into unleashing it, knowing it was dangerous but being curious just the same.

 

I think Sunset did the right thing by showing her the real magic of friendship. It was a great mirror to the ending in the first movie.

[The Coffee Pony 1,390]

dunno, with as smart as Twi is, you'd think, that at some point, the thought of "these guys are jerks. I don’t want to help them win", or "these guys have been ignoring me from day 1. I told the guys on the other team that my school doesn't appreciate achievements that they don't get, themselves, I should probably reconsider helping them, since they won't appreciate my contribution, anyway. Orrrr, "mayyyybe I don't want to ride Cinch's coattails to get into Everton, and try to do it on my own, her influence be damned. I've done it all on my own so far..."

 

Hard to beleive, with her GRAND GENIUS MIND, nothing logical popped into her little purple head.

 

There was nothing she could really do.

 

1. Sunset Shimmer scared her off and when you're scared, you make irrational decisions. I would have ran too.

 

2. She didn't know Sunset and her friends, they were complete strangers to them. Why should she trust people she doesn't even know?

 

3. She couldn't say "no" to staff as they HOLD HER FUTURE IN THEIR HANDS and could easily sabotage it. It's hard to say no to people with that kind of power and she had no one to turn to that could help her. What was she supposed to do?

 

4. She didn't have any intention whatsoever to put people at risk! She had no place to put the device as she was far from any place that could be considered home and she was being attacked on all sides so there was no one she could trust and give the device to. That device worked on its own accord and no one knew how it worked so even if she gave it up, there still would have been a disaster.

[Goat-kun 2,495]

Twilight: I’m a smart and timid idiot who didn’t know what she was doing with a device that just happened to absorb magic like Lord Tirek. I had no experience with magic, no experience with people, and the closest thing to a friend was my dog. I was pushed into an opportunity to grab the reins with my own weak hands and I took it. Wouldn’t you do the same?

 

Shimmer: I was an ambitious and power hungry bitch who knew exactly what I was doing and wouldn’t stop if it wasn’t for those meddling friends who purged all my power and freed students from my mind control. Defeated and drained, I suddenly realized my mistake, all was forgiven, and I became best waifu.

 

Color me white, but if this was another story and I had a spare removal spell at a ready, I know exactly who I’d delete and who I’d spare. Justice is blind to age, gender, species, or your affection; she only sees actions and intent. Feeling sorry doesn’t lift the weight off your past deeds. Thus a fitting price has to be paid.

[ManaMinori 4,143]

There was nothing she could really do.

 

1. Sunset Shimmer scared her off and when you're scared, you make irrational decisions. I would have ran too.

 

2. She didn't know Sunset and her friends, they were complete strangers to them. Why should she trust people she doesn't even know?

 

3. She couldn't say "no" to staff as they HOLD HER FUTURE IN THEIR HANDS and could easily sabotage it. It's hard to say no to people with that kind of power and she had no one to turn to that could help her. What was she supposed to do?

 

4. She didn't have any intention whatsoever to put people at risk! She had no place to put the device as she was far from any place that could be considered home and she was being attacked on all sides so there was no one she could trust and give the device to. That device worked on its own accord and no one knew how it worked so even if she gave it up, there still would have been a disaster.

Thee was plenty SciTwi coud have done. Right from the start. I can't fathom why it seems to elude people.

 

1: Even before Sunset scared her off, SciTi was doing investigation into the energy. Probably for months. She made the "logical" decision to investigate it, very likely knowing, had she researched the energy that it was unlike anything on earth. As "smart" as he was, she would've researched and wouldnt have needed to build something that read the energy, if it had been. She made the "logical" choice to build a contraption that her "genius" mind had no idea how to use or turn off.

 

And when Sunset did come into the picture, SciTwi had every right to be yelled at. Her lack of foresight, and building shit she couldn't figure out, could've cost lives. Scared or not, SciTwi's apology meant shit. She knew she put lives in danger, during the race. She saw it all happen. You don't just run off, and not take responsibility for it. Would forgiveness be offerred to a hit and run driver, just because they were scared and fled the scene? Because that's exactly what SciTwi did.

 

2: and? You say she didn't know Sunset nd friends, but she didn't know the kids from her school, either, because she never got to know them. And yet, she allowed herself to be manipulated by the people from her side, who she didn't know, and have never acknowledged her until she got her hands on magic. And she allowed it, for her own selfish pursuit of her future interest, unconcerned with the lives at risk. Even after Sunset told her, once, that she put lives in danger.

 

4: (see second half of 2)

[best poni 1,518]

Of course she did! It wasn't her fault that the became that way. Everypony deserves forgiveness eventually! 

[FlootahBabby 265]

I think she should. Everything is fine now so if sunset denied it the beef would just continue.

However, I think Sci-Twi is an antagonist. But on the level of Discord and Babs.

Edited September 29, 2015 by FlootahBaby

[Claude_Lib 21]

Just watched the movie. Personally, I think she deserves all the cuddles. She didn't intend to harm anyone, even after being turned into Midnight, she kept repeating one word. Study. She just got overwhelmed with all the possibilities. The only thing that still OCD's me is that Sunset still hadn't apologized to SciTwi for insulting her, but I'm sure they got it cleared up.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Claude_Lib

[chirox the pony 1,334]

Well considering the fact they know what she's capable of then why wouldn't they forgive her? 

[UnknownFry 169]

Twilight made plenty of mistakes along the way and should be held accountable for her own decisions, but in the end  she should be forgiven as she was acting out of duress towards the end there. She tried to be nice and well meaning for the most part but various people kept kicking her down while using her to further their agenda as she ultimately turned inwards to the things that were the closet things to bringing her happiness.

 

Could she have done some things better? Yes, but hind sight is twenty-twenty, but making these mistakes does not make her a bad person given that most of these mishaps were unintentional in the first place. Perhaps she let her curiosity get the best out of her though, so in that regard she was selfish when she unleashed the magic.

 

Forgiveness is something that should not be given conditionally, but rather given freely, and more importantly most of the characters realized she was a good person going through some rough times.

Edited October 1, 2015 by UnknownFry

[ManaMinori 4,143]

Just watched the movie. Personally, I think she deserves all the cuddles. She didn't intend to harm anyone, even after being turned into Midnight, she kept repeating one word. Study. She just got overwhelmed with all the possibilities. The only thing that still OCD's me is that Sunset still hadn't apologized to SciTwi for insulting her, but I'm sure they got it cleared up.

I didn't hear the word "study", even once. I did hear "I want to understand it" a few times, though. That's still no excuse for someone who is as supposedly smart as her, and nearly an adult, to allow things to have progressed that far. She should've done something, right after she approached the mane 6, after the motocross race. She apologized, then, and explained the situation. Good. But she also effed up right after by not handing the pendant over to the people who obviously knew about magic, because she was draining it right out of them, and also not even trying to close the device, once it started draining Rainbow's magic. Again. Dunno what pulling on thd string every time is gonna do.

 

A big, fat nothing, that's what.

 

And then her apology and eplanation and tiny step toward deserving forgiveness then and there, is retracted, all because she runs off, then. NOT returning the pendant, NOT considering the chain of events and disasters that she caused, and continuing to put her own curiosity and academic secure future before ths lives of others. So no, I hardly think that after everything that transpired after SciTwi came to the 6 after the motocross incident, that she is deserving of any cuddles, or forgiveness. Becuse bottom line is, she CHOSE to let things worsen after that.

 

She sabotaged her own appeal for forgiveness, which she could've gotten, then and there, but to apologize once, get told that she put lives in danger, that someone, maybe hundreds of students could've been KILLED, only to run off and cause more bad things, putting lives at risk, AGAIN, and turn around and apologize again....really? Really?

 

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool me twice, you'd best not come crawling back claiming how sorry you are, cause you're a big fat liar. Action speak louder than words.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Nightmare Muffin

[Claude_Lib 21]

She was scared, put into an unfamiliar environment, she had severe lack of social skills, she was compelled by Principal Cinch. I know these don't sound like a reason enough and yeah, she did a couple of mistakes, big ones too. But personally, very-very subjectively, I'd forgive her.

[ElizaGWR 24]

Thee was plenty SciTwi coud have done. Right from the start. I can't fathom why it seems to elude people.

 

1: Even before Sunset scared her off, SciTi was doing investigation into the energy. Probably for months. She made the "logical" decision to investigate it, very likely knowing, had she researched the energy that it was unlike anything on earth. As "smart" as he was, she would've researched and wouldnt have needed to build something that read the energy, if it had been. She made the "logical" choice to build a contraption that her "genius" mind had no idea how to use or turn off.

 

And when Sunset did come into the picture, SciTwi had every right to be yelled at. Her lack of foresight, and building shit she couldn't figure out, could've cost lives. Scared or not, SciTwi's apology meant shit. She knew she put lives in danger, during the race. She saw it all happen. You don't just run off, and not take responsibility for it. Would forgiveness be offerred to a hit and run driver, just because they were scared and fled the scene? Because that's exactly what SciTwi did.

 

2: and? You say she didn't know Sunset nd friends, but she didn't know the kids from her school, either, because she never got to know them. And yet, she allowed herself to be manipulated by the people from her side, who she didn't know, and have never acknowledged her until she got her hands on magic. And she allowed it, for her own selfish pursuit of her future interest, unconcerned with the lives at risk. Even after Sunset told her, once, that she put lives in danger.

 

4: (see second half of 2)

 

And you are being too harsh...

 

1) SciTwi is a recluse in High School.  I don't know if you've been there, but I have.  When you're left to your own thoughts like that you tend to make stuff without realizing what your making.  Back in high school I was an amateur scientist in my garage and I constantly made things without fully understanding what they were.  Beyond that scientists never have a full understanding when they first come up with something.  When Einstein discovered that his theories had been used to develop an atomic bomb he was saddened by that development, Oppenheimer, another who helped develop the bomb was disgusted with it.  To blame SciTwi for something she built based on theory and minor scan of an energy source that she didn't fully understand or could control is more than a little harsh.

 

2) Speaking as someone with Social Anxiety Disorder, SciTwi obviously has some sort of social anxiety, look at the way she reacts when people other than her brother or Dean Cadance talk to her.  She is awkward stumbling over her own words and exceedingly shy.  It's probably one of the reasons she wants the independent study program, she doesn't know how to interact with others,  Not to mention when she starts meeting people who are genuinely kind to her other than the two stated previously, she inadvertently harms them and is visibly shaken by that.  That would be enough to send someone with Social Anxiety into a downward spiral.

 

3) Sunset berating SciTwi, who by the way probably has Social Anxiety was already visibly shaken by what she had done and wanted to apologize, like that would not have helped.  In fact it would have made her even more susceptible to manipulation by people like Principle Cinch and the students from Crystal Prep.  Especially with Cinch also having been manipulating her this entire time, she would've been like putty.

 

4) Yes she should've talked to someone about this when she couldn't control the device, but who did she know that had any knowledge about what was going?  Maybe Cadance was someone she could talk too, but that wouldn't really help as Cadance had no knowledge of the strange energy.  Sunset Shimmer was her best shot, but Sunset was too angry at herself and lashing out at her to take the time to truly help.

 

5) Yes she put lives in danger... so did Twilight in both previous Equestria Girls movies.  And that one actually knows how to deal with people, while SciTwi as I stated before, more than likely has a Social Anxiety disorder.

[ManaMinori 4,143]

She was scared, put into an unfamiliar environment, she had severe lack of social skills, she was compelled by Principal Cinch. I know these don't sound like a reason enough and yeah, she did a couple of mistakes, big ones too. But personally, very-very subjectively, I'd forgive her.

nice to know that being scared is a free pass for being stupid. I get that she's socially awkward, but I mean, come on! She wants to know what the funky energy is, and she SEES her device literally sucking it out of someone, would it NOT occur to ask, "hey, um. You. What's this weird glowy stuff that came out of you. It was IN you, so, um...you must know something about it, right?" You pull something out of someone, you don't not ask them what the Flutterpony it is, if you don't know, yourself! For Flutterpony's sake, SciTwi is worse than FiM episode 1 Fluttershy, as far as social skills go. At least Fluttershy TRIED to talk, when Tilight approached her!