S05:E17 - Brotherhooves Social

[Silver Letter 1,830]

 

 

Haven't you seen Sleepless in Ponyville? It's the bestest episode of the entire series

I have. However, It's interesting to see her taking Scoots "under her wing" to joining in the sisterhooves social. The latter sounds more serious rather than something between friends.

[Jonny Music 3,303]

As the oldest of 3 boys, I really connected with that episode. Therefore, I loved it.   

Speaking of brothers, my brothers and I worked on this last weekend, hope you like it (even tho it's kinda out-of-topic).

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAtq-YEaxog

[Justin_Case001 4,855]

Another triumph!

 

First off, I just have to get this out of my system real quick.  When Big Mac was sitting on the hill at the end, I was so hoping he was going to speak up about his feelings, and when he did, I was basically like this:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=U3NoDEu7kpg

 

Ok, so great episode, great premise.  Believe it or not, during the cold open, I actually wondered for a second if an entire year had passed since the last episode.  Then it dawned on me that they were doing another concurrency, like Games Ponies Play/Just For Sidekicks.  I really like the concurrency episodes, as it adds a lot of depth to see what else is happening during a particular episode.  And seeing as how important the Social is to the CMC, I'm really glad they covered it, instead of just leaving it as the glossed over comment in the previous episode.

 

Right off the bat here, I want to be a bit overt and just ask politely for everyone to knock it the buck off with the transgender stuff.  I'm 100% pro LGBT, but I really think y'all are makin' too much a this.  I don't think that's what the writers were trying to convey.  His dressing in drag just showed how far he was willing to go for his lil sis.  Not that there would be anything wrong with a trans character, but I just think more is being read into this than should be.

 

Perhaps the best part of the episode for me was just the development of RD and Scoots.  Ever since Sleepless, I've been really wishing that they would actually show them being together, doing sibling type activities, and just generally developing a mentor/protoge relationship.  I'm so glad to see that they came back to it and didn't forget.  (Flight to the Finish had a little, but not as good as this, imo.

 

I liked that not one pony actually fell for the disguise, but they didn't care, anyway.  It means two things--A.  The ponies aren't stupid.  They always do that dumb thing on tv where a person puts on a glasses or a wig and suddenly no one recognizes them.  It's the Clark Kent effect.  I'm glad they didn't do that here.  (Well, I guess the old dude was fooled, but that's because he has poor eyesight.)  And B.  The organizers of the Social didn't have a problem with a male competing.  Now, glancing through this thread, I gather there's some gender equality debates going on.  I suppose there's a few things that one could pick at, but I'm going to have to say that all of that is reading too much in again, like the LGBT thing.  I don't think it's particularly worth arguing about, so I'm not going to go there.

 

The emotional hilltop ending was easily one of the best scenes in the entire series.  I was blown away.  Just incredible.  Big Mac has never had much development.  He's been present since the very beginning, and he lives right there with one of the mane 6, and yet he's remained barely more than a one-dimensional piece of the backdrop.  Oh, he's a nice line here or there, like his little rant in Ponyville Confidential, but nothing I'd call real development.  His being in the Ponytones was interesting, but since there was no focus on him, or how or why he joined, there still wasn't much development.  He's just...there.  He's there because they just need another pony working the farm.  By they, I mean the writers.  They just need somepony else there, doing chores.  For the most part, his role in this show up until now could have been done by a tractor.  A tractor that says "Eyup" and "Nope".  The hilltop scene made him go from one-dimensional to dynamic 3-D instantaneously.  The feels!  My goodness, the feels!  This kind of development is what makes this show so great, and adds so much depth.  The characters are just so real.  It's so transformative when they show the real feelings of a background character that you just sort of take for granted, or didn't even realize was there, like Moondancer.  Finally, Big Mac is a real character!

 

That said, I personally think it would have been better if he hadn't done the whole disguise.  He should have just walked up to the event staff, as himself, and just explained the situation, and asked if he could do the event with Applebloom.  The staff probably would have been on the fence about if for a second, furrowing their brows, then would have shrugged and said, "Why not?"  Then the race would have been exactly the same.  Big Mac, as Big Mac, would have gotten carried away and smashed through everything in a desperate attempt to win for his sister, and then the ending continues the same way.  Wouldn't that have better?  The ruse just wasn't necessary.  It really didn't add anything, and it just made everyone go crazy about LGBT and gender equality issues.  I suppose the writers just thought that the episode wouldn't have been funny enough, and just needed a comedic element.  I guess you could argue, as I pointed out earlier, that Big Mac's willingness to go to that extreme and do something pretty outlandish just shows how much he cares about his sister, and how far he'll go to help her and try to make her happy.  So, there's that.

 

I was glad that they got disqualified, as well.  They definitely should have been.  You want a reasonable amount of real-life consequences, or the lore begins to fall apart.  So that was nice.

 

Great episode.  Let the good times roll!

[midnightlegacy 172]

When all is said and done, this episode really hit home for me.  All in all, it was pretty funny, but what really sold me on this episode was that ending scene.  Ever since I started watching this show, for some reason, I began really relating to Big Mac.  I am the oldest of my siblings, I usually don't talk much, and like to go about my chores/work in silent personal contemplation.  When you think about it, with how little he speaks, Big Mac probably holds in quite a lot of his feelings.  When he started pouring out his feelings of how he basically feels unappreciated, it made him even more relatable.  I mean, who doesn't feel unappreciated from time to time?

 

P.S.

 

Oh, and also, the whole transgender Big Mac stuff is a bunch of crap.  It's freaking obvious that is not what the writers were trying to convey.  People need to just stop being idgits. 

Edited October 4, 2015 by midnightlegacy

[Cloud Strife 928]

I personally liked the episode. The ending was adorable, and seeing some Scootalove was so worth it. <3

 

I knew this episode was going to spark some discussion about gender politics, though. If it wasn't Big Mac in drag, it was going to be Rainbow's comment about not going easy on him just because he's a stallion. From a writer's standpoint, I can understand why they inserted the latter comment - it was likely to parody the typical "I'm not going to go easy on you just because you're a girl", back handed sexism that younger girls are probably used to hearing, so it might actually feel a little liberating for them to hear it from a character in a pro-feminism show. Still, I can understand where some people might take issue with it. Passive aggressive sexism is still passive aggressive sexism, no matter which sex it's applied to. I doubt that it has remotely the same impact as sexism that's applied toward women, though, because the most you're going to hear it is from that one remark from Rainbow, whereas it's all the time out in the real world for women.

 

You might have noted I focused on that and not on the Big Mac in drag thing. That's because it's difficult for me to talk about it when there's not much to actually talk about with it. It was clear, realistically, that the others found it strange because they knew who Big Mac was, but they played along with it anyway because, hey, whatever he wanted to do, man. And that's all it boils down to. I doubt it was making a statement on transgenderism, or even on drag queens/cross-dressing in general. It was only to do with the fact it was a sisterhooves social and that Apple Bloom said that Applejack was her favorite sister. It perhaps never occurred to them that allowing anyone with a similar bond to compete applied not only to cousins/not-actually-relatives, but anyone of any gender as well. At this point I'm not really stating my opinion, I'm stating an actual fact and what's spelled out within the show. My opinion? Well, I don't really have one, as a result of the aforementioned fact that it's not making a statement. It's simply not relevant.

 

Context is very important when it comes to these things. It's why I dislike "Tanks for the Memories"; yeah, it has the five stages of grief, but the context makes it seem cheap and Rainbow's emotions come off as...shallow. Here, the context reduces what could potentially be some thing about gender equality into something that isn't really about it at all and just works off of the "sister" semantics.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Luigi

[Sunny Fox 5,929]

I respect your opinion, but I'd like to ask, what about portraying mares weaker than stallions in that episode? Nobody still answered that.

Well, let's be honest here. Men in general are physically stronger than women in general. Of course, there are exceptions. There is a reason why any sport relying on physical power separates men and women. It's a matter of acknowledging a truth about the world. Gender equality shouldn't mean you can't recognize that men and women are different, only that you respect both men and women equally. It's when those differences are used to treat one group as less worthy than another that it becomes a problem. That patently didn't happen in this episode. That they didn't use Big Mac is a stallion as a reason to stop him from joining the Social shows that his sex didn't actually matter, which is pretty gender equal, to my mind. 

 

Also, you should consider that Big Mac as an individual is being portrayed as stronger than the other competitors, not just because he is a stallion, but because he happens to be really strong, even compared to other stallions. His strength (one of his personal traits) has been demonstrated in many episodes prior. The episode wasn't saying "stallions are stronger than mares", it was saying "Big Mac is stronger than the other competitors", which would have been true even if other stallions had been competing. And even then, his and AB's win would have stood if he hadn't used his strength in a way that caused damage to the course and threatened the other competitors.

 

I hope that answers your question.

 

also in response to this picture what is this building?

 

large-2.png

 

 

It's one of the other farms, I think.

[Jon the VGNerd 842]

The ending nearly made me cry. It felt so heartwarming to see that Big Mac cares, but has been left out as Apple Bloom relied a lot on Applejack and less with her older brother. 

 

 

Of course, after seeing Big Mac cross dress for the first time... I had to go and bleach my eyes. Sorry if it offends you, it was just a surprise and... yeah.

 

[cider float 2,535]

When all is said and done, this episode really hit home for me.  All in all, it was pretty funny, but what really sold me on this episode was that ending scene.  Ever since I started watching this show, for some reason, I began really relating to Big Mac.  I am the oldest of my siblings, I usually don't talk much, and like to go about my chores/work in silent personal contemplation.  When you think about it, with how little he speaks, Big Mac probably holds in quite a lot of his feelings.  When he started pouring out his feelings of how he basically feels unappreciated, it made him even more relatable.  I mean, who doesn't feel unappreciated from time to time?

 

P.S.

 

Oh, and also, the whole transgender Big Mac stuff is a bunch of crap.  It's freaking obvious that is not what the writers were trying to convey.  People need to just stop being idgits. 

Don't be intolerant and bigoted. What's wrong if Big Mac is a transgender? He went and became a woman so willingly and did it perfectly with the whole transgender voice breaking up every now and then. This is the second time he dressed up as a mare. It's 2015 open your eyes.

 

Big Mac's need to be his little sister's role model is a very feminine imperative of nurturing.

 

Big Mac reminded me a lot of Caitlyn Jenner.

Edited October 4, 2015 by cider float

[arftbmrf 40]

Well, let's be honest here. Men in general are physically stronger than women in general. Of course, there are exceptions. There is a reason why any sport relying on physical power separates men and women. It's a matter of acknowledging a truth about the world. Gender equality shouldn't mean you can't recognize that men and women are different, only that you respect both men and women equally. It's when those differences are used to treat one group as less worthy than another that it becomes a problem. That patently didn't happen in this episode. That they didn't use Big Mac is a stallion as a reason to stop him from joining the Social shows that his sex didn't actually matter, which is pretty gender equal, to my mind. 

 

Also, you should consider that Big Mac as an individual is being portrayed as stronger than the other competitors, not just because he is a stallion, but because he happens to be really strong, even compared to other stallions. His strength (one of his personal traits) has been demonstrated in many episodes prior. The episode wasn't saying "stallions are stronger than mares", it was saying "Big Mac is stronger than the other competitors", which would have been true even if other stallions had been competing. And even then, his and AB's win would have stood if he hadn't used his strength in a way that caused damage to the course and threatened the other competitors.

 

I hope that answers your question.

It's one of the other farms, I think.

In real life, sure. But in Equestria, they are equal.

http://vignette2.wik...=20140505223832

Mixed teams, no separation.

But yes, I think you're right. It's because Big Mac is stronger as a person. After all, if there was Maud Pie in that contest, she'd have just destroyed everyone, including him, without breaking a sweat.

[Sunny Fox 5,929]

In real life, sure. But in Equestria, they are equal.

http://vignette2.wik...=20140505223832

 

Mixed teams, no separation.

But yes, I think you're right. It's because Big Mac is stronger as a person. After all, if there was Maud Pie in that contest, she'd have just destroyed everyone, including him, without breaking a sweat.

So there you are, Equestria is more equal in terms of gender than real life.

 

Unless Maud's powers only work on rocks. A reverse Kryptonite, if you will.

[xenozfan3 188]

I know other people have said it but this episode really got to me. My little sister just recently got to a point in her life where she no longer really needs me. I used to do things with her when she was younger like the sisterhooves social(without dressing up that is). I miss it already.

[Fia94 374]

What an epic, lovely episode

Brilliant to see Big Mac getting some depth xxx

[Jaxsie (Inactive) 1,343]

I honestly didn't care for two-thirds of the episode. Big Mac in drag was -- well -- interesting. I find it unusual that Big Mac gets his first episode and the first thing the writers do is put him in a dress. It felt not only like cheap comedy but also quite out of character for him. I found myself watching Scoots and Dash and their bond -- wishing against hope that it was about them. (I digress, but their jump rope routine was pretty awesome.) But what did make the episode for me was the end. It was quite moving to see him express his feelings and bond with AppleBloom. I never thought about how he felt to be out-shined by AJ. What I also thought was neat was that AJ picked up on these feelings and wanted to help. All in all, most of the episode was "meh" for me. The highlights, though, were what made it worth watching.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Jaxsie

[Cloud Strife 928]

Don't be intolerant and bigoted. What's wrong if Big Mac is a transgender? He went and became a woman so willingly and did it perfectly with the whole transgender voice breaking up every now and then. This is the second time he dressed up as a mare. It's 2015 open your eyes.

 

Big Mac's need to be his little sister's role model is a very feminine imperative of nurturing.

 

Big Mac reminded me a lot of Caitlyn Jenner.

 

There's nothing wrong with it if it were to be true, but it, at the moment, isn't canon. It was pretty clear from the episode he's supposed to be cross dressing, not transgender.

 

Also, needing to be the role model of a younger sibling isn't a specifically feminine trait. Have you never heard of an older brother wanting to be a role model for his younger? This is a very common theme in media.

 

EDIT: Also, I don't think you intended this to be offensive, but "the whole transgender voice breaking up every now and then" can be seen as potentially offensive; I advise you watch your wording.

 

I honestly didn't care for two-thirds of the episode. Big Mac in drag was -- well -- interesting. I find it unusual that Big Mac gets his first episode and the first thing the writers do is put him in a dress. It felt not only like cheap comedy but also quite out of character for him. I found myself watching Scoots and Dash and their bond -- wishing against hope that it was about them. (I digress, but their jump rope routine was pretty awesome.) But what did make the episode for me was the end. It was quite moving to see him express his feelings and bond with AppleBloom. I never thought about how he felt to be out-shined by AJ. What I also thought was neat was that AJ picked up on these feelings and wanted to help. All in all, most of the episode was "meh" for me. The highlights, though, were what made it worth watching.

 

It's hard to say something is out of character for a character that barely gets any screen time.

 

EDIT: fixed some formatting issues

Edited October 4, 2015 by Lady Bow

[cider float 2,535]

 

There's nothing wrong with it if it were to be true, but it, at the moment, isn't canon. It was pretty clear from the episode he's supposed to be cross dressing, not transgender.

 

Also, needing to be the role model of a younger sibling isn't a specifically feminine trait. Have you never heard of an older brother wanting to be a role model for his younger? This is a very common theme in media.

 

EDIT: Also, I don't think you intended this to be offensive, but "the whole transgender voice breaking up every now and then" can be seen as potentially offensive; I advise you watch your wording.

 

 

It's hard to say something is out of character for a character that barely gets any screen time.

 

EDIT: fixed some formatting issues

 

I say what I want to say if you're going to get stressed about it go ahead. Stress is bad for your health.

[Twilight Frost 271]

This is without a doubt the most touching and heart warming episode ever. The scene at the end really nailed it for me and this has probably become one of my most favorite episodes ever.

 

I was a little skeptical at first that it would really be something great but mlp writers have REALLY been on the ball lately.

 

I think mlp really needs more deeper emotional stuff like this in the series. This genuinly touched me and I applaud it for that.

 

Plus, seeing big mac in a dress talking like that and THANK CELESTIA the characters from mlp world are not retards like in every other cartoon...EVER and somehow big macs disguise actually worked. The fact that everypony instantly saw through his disguse and we didn't get a "gasp it was a boy all along" cliche was REALLY amazing! So thank celestia we didn't get that cliche and everyone saw that it was big mac.

[Mentis Soliloquy 3,024]

I did love the ending, however the race segment was a bit overkill how could Big Mac not see he was being unfair to the others he's not that kind of pony, or I thought he was but otherwise it was great to see the writers go past the mane 6 and CMC so do keep it up I say!

P.S new to here set the date as my first post.

[VengefulStrudel 1,486]

I really enjoyed this episode! Had some very heartwarming moments, especially the ending~ Really nice to see some sibling love between him and Applebloom too. He sure has quite a vocal range too, heh. Great episode that hit home with the feels~

 

Though, what I didn't get is why Rainbow Dash tried to "reveal" his real identity when he was signing up. Did I blink and miss a rivalry between them?

[Nikola Xerdav 88]

people who know me on here know me for my 7-14 paragraph rants on episodes i either hated or have serious issues with, so then how long are my posts when i love an episode though? well, much shorter at least, lol.

 

 5/5, best episode in the entire series. Dave Polski redeemed himself in my eyes since i was upset with Appleloosa's Most Wanted, this episode not only makes up for that sin, but it obliterates any nitpick i had of him in the past too.

 

 male characters in MLP were constantly 2 bit, 1 dimensional characters, but Big Mac finally proves that the writers are not just going to keep making male characters punching bags and male stereotypical jokes.

 

 i am rarely surprised by anything that happens in this show, but this episode took me by storm, it rocked my mind and my heart, i nearly had watery eyes, it was paced so well, everything was just awesome.

 

 it was funny, it had good movement, direction, writing, everything just awesome. i personally found Mac both sweet and caring, and also funny and heroic, but not funny because he was silly for being in "drag", though that was amusing because i never expected it from him, but he normally only says "eeyup" or "nnnope", so him talking all like that was hilarious.

 

 i personally also like to cross dress, mostly in private, or with friends, i don't identify as trans, i just always had this as a secret hobby since i was young, it's fun and stuff; so to see this sort of thing in a modern cartoon, is kinda rare at this point. sure, old school cartoons had cross dressing all the time, like Bugs Bunny (hence, Dave Polski was perfect for this episode), but not many modern cartoons touch base on this, at least not kids cartoons.

 

 okay, i know i promised a short review, but i guess i was so passionate about this, i couldn't hold back, hehe. it's also my new favorite episode, so that is special to babble about for me 

 

cheers to Big Mac and his awesome episode   

Edited October 4, 2015 by Nikola Xerdav

[AmberDust 1,116]

I really loved the cold open, and although the episode didn't take the path I thought it would, I actually teared up a little at the end. I really appreciate this episode, even if they relied a bit on the campy man-dressed-as-woman trope for most of it. The message was great. Big Mac's talk with Apple Bloom was great. :')

Edited October 4, 2015 by AmberDust

[Truffles 2,033]

Though, what I didn't get is why Rainbow Dash tried to "reveal" his real identity when he was signing up. Did I blink and miss a rivalry between them?

 

I was surprised too, and this is one of the two things in the episode that finally developed his character for me - he actually is a competitor like RD and AJ!

 

Thinking about it a little more, there actually has been a hint of him being a competitor: The infamous turkey call contest in "Filli Vanilli"! Unfortunately that bit of character development got overshadowed by the fan firestorm over Pinkie's gloating over the loss of his voice... 

 

It would be cool if from now on we see him competing with RD in other contests - like the Running of the Leaves. Seems like with his galloping heft he'd be perfect for knocking all the leaves off the trees!

 

 

He's just...there.  He's there because they just need another pony working the farm.  By they, I mean the writers.  They just need somepony else there, doing chores.  For the most part, his role in this show up until now could have been done by a tractor.  A tractor that says "Eyup" and "Nope".

 

Wonderful analogy! I was originally thinking it was like you could substitute a poster of his character in many scenes, and it would be just as effective as having him actually there. But the tractor works better!

 

 

I suppose the writers just thought that the episode wouldn't have been funny enough, and just needed a comedic element.  I guess you could argue, as I pointed out earlier, that Big Mac's willingness to go to that extreme and do something pretty outlandish just shows how much he cares about his sister, and how far he'll go to help her and try to make her happy.  So, there's that.

 

I agreed with you in my comments that they didn't need to put him in disguise to get the point of the episode across. But I feel like the comedy of watching Sweetie Belle, Apple Bloom, and Rainbow Dash react to his decision was worth it. Also laughed when his Adam's Apple suddenly popped out at the end of the song. 

 

 

It's so transformative when they show the real feelings of a background character that you just sort of take for granted, or didn't even realize was there, like Moondancer.

We've never really thought about how he must feel being left on the farm while his sister goes off on such wonderful adventures.

But boy...who knew...who knew that Big Mac was suffering on the inside? Who knew that all these episodes and all of these seasons, ever since AJ earned her Element of Honesty, he has been going through so much...thinking lower of himself, than the loving big brother he was.

 

All of this, right here. 100% agreed! I didn't even realize he was feeling this way, just like Moondancer and her hurt feelings and Luna and her guilt. This season seems to be about revisiting unfinished business that wasn't immediately apparent to the audience, or at least that was the case for me. Taking a look back at all these characters were some really inspired ideas by the writing staff!

 

It's interesting, because with this episode we now have 4 families with a sibling living in the shadow of another sibling:

• Luna under Celestia
• Sweetie Belle under Rarity
• And now Big Mac under Applejack.
• EDIT: Also Spike under Twilight - just remembered how he felt in "Equestria Games", and he's a relative of sorts.

I wonder which other characters in the series feel like they're being marginalized by a relative of theirs? 

Edited October 4, 2015 by Truffles

[SparklingSwirls 21,261]

Aww I loved this episode . I thought Big Mac had some funny moments as Orchard Blossom, and I really liked the ending too when Big Mac shared his feelings . It was also cute how RD and Scootaloo won

[MEOWKB48 1,864]

This episode is adorable and heartwarming <3 I love it

[ggg-2 3,549]

Big Mac, as much as i love him and especially in this episode, seemed......OOC at times. I mean, a sweet humble guy like him not caring about good sportsponyship AND vainly complimenting himself when they said that Orchard Blossom was Big Mac in a dress, and he was trying to maintain his disguise. Really?

[VengefulStrudel 1,486]

I was surprised too, and this is one of the two things in the episode that finally developed his character for me - he actually is a competitor like RD and AJ!

 

 

That makes sense, yeah. Though, that doesn't really answer why RD wanted to blow his cover. (well, "cover" ) If she wanted to compete with him, wouldn't she, ya know, just let him enter? Ah well, probably shouldn't question it too much.