Is every bully in mlp easily forgivable?

[Silver Stream. 708]

Shimmer Lover Says: 

 

 

Throughout the show (and I will included equestria girls), we've been introduced to many "bullies": Gilda, Trixie, Sunset Shimmer, Diamond Tiara, Babs, and I'll include Fluttershy as well. Apologies if I've forgotten a few but these characters are the first to come to mind. 

 

Of course, each character listed has been "redeemed" in a way and forgiven fairly easily due to the issues that leads to them becoming bullies in the first place. My question is: do you think all of them deserved forgiveness so easily? 

 

Gilda and Trixie perhaps....I wouldn't say so for the others and yes I mean Sunset as well (I was formally called Princess Sunset btw if I'm unrecognizable) 

 

Gilda was first shown being a huge c*nt to literally everyone except for Rainbiwdash. I'm aware the hatred towards her manifested from the scene in which she yells at Fluttershy and makes her cry. I, personally, didn't hate her for that because stuff like that happens too often within the show for me to get crazy over it, but I didn't like her for how she treated everyone and how she was being selfish with RD. But that changed the moment I saw "The Lost Treasure of Griffonstone". Gilda was raised in a place where friendship didn't exist...she lives in what my reality would call "The Ghetto Projects" where there are only desires for money and nothing/no one else matters. It must have been tough living in such a neighborhood for her to develop that sort of attitude. You can even tell how miserable she was living there because her only desires was to raise enough money to move out. My thoughts were this: Well no wonder she was so possessive over RD. At a younger age when she was more exposed to accepting outsiders, RD was perhaps the first and only pony to show her kindness. Of course, after flight camp, she had to return back into that mess and her heart hardened through the many years of growing up. You are who you surround yourself with.....Gilda was a victim of believing a d*ck to everyone because that was all she KNEW!

 

Trixie wasn't a bully during her first appearance imo. Just a show off. However, in "Magic Duel" she got carried away though it was only because of the amulet.

 

 

 

Now for the ones who I cannot forgive so easily: DT and Babs. Before I even rant on about this, know that I have no hatred towards them. As a matter of fact, I sort of liked DT...even more than the "evil" Sunset Shimmer. I won't deny how disgusted I was when "Crusaders of the Lost Mark" turned DT into a pity party. I cannot stress enough how many things were wrong in that episode including DT's execution and cliche reason as to why she's been bullying ponies since Season 1. Don't get me wrong, I know what it feels like to be pressured by your parents to be someone you don't want to be....or more so....to convince you that their way is the right way. But DT made plenty of choices on her own. Her mother was teaching her how to always be a winner....to carry herself above everyone else and preserve a mindset that she's better than everypony out there and should always behave as such. She was teaching DT to be some stuck up pony to remain in power and gain more power. That's it. I'm pretty sure her mother didn't teach her to bully kids into thinking less of themselves about having blank flanks. DT is what you would call a smart bully. She isn't one of those bullies who have little to no intelligence...she has her ways. She blackmails (Ponyville Confidential and Crusaders of the Lost Mark), harasses (Every damn episode), and changes her methods in ways that could hurt worse than her average bullying (Flight to the Finish). I found it appalling how clever she was to realize that the blank flank crap wasn't working any longer....so like a mastermind, she reverted to a harsher way to get underneath their skin. Instead of targeting all three of them, she targeted Scoots. She gets in her head and that was more than enough to nearly ruin their performance AND their friendship. The reason why I refuse to have pity on DT like everyone else is because unlike Gilda, DT was surrounded by good ponies. Her father seems to be a good guy appreciative to those less fortunate and the hardworking.  I would give DT the excuse that perhaps her mother was more sinister than she seemed to be....and had a lot of power over DT in a way that not even the countless influence of good ponies could shake the influence of her mother. But that excuse was put to rest when I saw DT stand up to her mother so easily and how her mother was like "oh okay". 

 

Babs is another case....she was victim to bullies back in Manehattan. I could say she and Gilda are alike when it comes to "where you came from". But what sets them apart is the severity of how they bullied others. Gilda yells at people and tries to hog RD for herself....Babs destroyed property, took over Appleblooms stuff and made her sleep on the floor, harassed the CMC despite them trying to avoid her....she did all of this knowing what it felt like on the receiving end.  That's not "trying to protect myself" that's "going far and beyond to impress this person who seems to be top dog". Not even DT and SP went to those sort of extremes...Babs had no real reason to either. And how the whole thing was handled was just an aweful mess. 

 

Sunset Shimmer, my best pony, simply sucked. She wasn't even a good villain and she did poorly as a bully. I understand she had the mindset to be mean to everyone simply to survive because she was in a new world and wasn't sure what to do....but still she had no excuse. Again, she was surrounded by people who could have potentially helped her but I suppose she knew no other way. I'm not even in the mood to go into details with her. In RainbowRocks, I wasn't even willing to forgive her easily, but I admired how she at LEAST accepted what she did and tried her best to live through it and make up for her past mistakes. Sure she whined about being the most hated person in school, but how she handled everything is what won me over. 

 

Fluttershy.......terrible. I never blamed Iron Will for what she became. That was Fluttershy unable to handle being assertive and took it too far. The things she said to Rarity and Pinkie Pie made me flinch and cringe. I was disappointed in that episode altogether, It was just another "One Bad Apple" of a mess that should have been executed better.  

 

So these are my thoughts....what are yours?

Edited November 25, 2015 by Silver Stream.

[Melon Blitz 423]

Funny enough, every bully Rainbow Dash has had, has never been forgiven. She's gotten Lightning Dust and Wind Rider kicked out of the Wonderbolts with no redemption (just crushed careers). Also, in the newest episode, Sven Galllop leaves on bad terms as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFjC-XXa-hM

[Lil Pip 775]

An irredeemable character would have to probably be a carnivore of some sort that is very powerful and simply doesnt care, can be friends one day then eat them the next. But thats too dark for the show. The show is friendship overcomes all anyways, why do we want to put that into almost irreversible conflict?

[FlyingChicken 154]

For my opinion, I mostly agree with you. The characters are forgiven too easily. But the one that cross me the most is Babs. She used a reason for being bullied back in Manehattan to bully the CMCs just to avoid the bullies. It was unsatisfied and I was disappointed. The only thing they learned from all that was "to tell adult or someone older", but not "you can't just use excuse(s) to bully others or becoming one yourself". It's kind of like, telling kids that if you don't want to get bullied you just have to be the bully yourself.

And to put it short, all those characters you mention are indeed nasty in many ways, but they all have the reasons to be forgiven. For Diamond Tiara, though, she is a character that was created just to be a bully. For all her babbling, she was the one I like. Not because I like bullies, but the fact that she is the representative of the bullying in school. You have power, money and influence that could make everypony whatever she wanted and no one gives a flying duck. It was brilliantly portrayed,  but putting that aside, her redemption episode is not that good either. She has no excuse other than "having to be the best so her parents wouldn't scold her". 

But the show is like that itself, To forgive (and forget) is a virtue. Not to mention that the target audience are kids. It did bug me, yes, but I don't mind it that much. So, yeah, that is my tiny thought on the subject.

[cmarston1 5,951]

I don't really know.

Sometimes I guess some characters are forgiven way too easily.

Like what would happen if/when Starlight Glimmer gets redemption or Babs Seed for what she did in One Bad Apple I guess.

But do to the nature of this show, it's a given, due to the major theme of friendship and stuff like that.

[Silver Stream. 708]

An irredeemable character would have to probably be a carnivore of some sort that is very powerful and simply doesnt care, can be friends one day then eat them the next. But thats too dark for the show. The show is friendship overcomes all anyways, why do we want to put that into almost irreversible conflict?

I get that "forgiveness" and friendship is the nature of the show, which was why I added the term "easily". I'm not saying a the characters aren't worthy of redemption, but more so, some that were easily forgiven should have taken more time. And I think you count a Chimera as some carnivore....it was planning to eat Applebloom right? Or was it just the pies....

 

I just feel that some characters who has done less extreme crimes get the short end of the stick......while other characters who has bullied to the extremes or a long time are easily forgiven within 5minutes.

 

Funny enough, every bully Rainbow Dash has had, has never been forgiven. She's gotten Lightning Dust and Wind Rider kicked out of the Wonderbolts with no redemption (just crushed careers). Also, in the newest episode, Sven Galllop leaves on bad terms as well.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HFjC-XXa-hM

Yes yes yes yes....Lightning Dust wasn't even a bully. She was an ambitious pony who lost sight of things and made a mistake. I didn't think it was fair to kick her out the Wonderbolt Academy. After all, Spitfire(what's her name again?) basically made the same mistake Lightning did in "Rainbow falls. But she remained a high rank within The Wonderbolts.

 

And Sven Galloo wasn't even forgiven at all. Meaning despite the show showing forgiveness a lot, it can't excuse some characters being forgiven too easily....not when others took time or wasn't forgiven at all.

[Singe 2,109]

Yes yes yes yes....Lightning Dust wasn't even a bully. She was an ambitious pony who lost sight of things and made a mistake. I didn't think it was fair to kick her out the Wonderbolt Academy. After all, Spitfire(what's her name again?) basically made the same mistake Lightning did in "Rainbow falls. But she remained a high rank within The Wonderbolts.

 

In this instance, one would have to look at the Wonderbolt's Academy and how much leeway they've allowed "Lightning Dust'(s)" to behave. The setup for the camp came off as they wanted tougher Pegasus and the current lot was mostly soft. Set boundaries would have kept Lightning Dust from going too far, since she wasn't breaking rules or cheating.  

Edited November 26, 2015 by Singe

[Silver Stream. 708]

True. I'm pretty sure Lightning was't like this out of no where. One would wonder had they still kicked her out if Rainbowash wasn't there to declare her methods and attitude wrong

[Justin_Case001 4,855]

TLDR.  (I'm sorry.)  I think most bullies typically are forgivable, because the term bully in itself implies rather petty rudeness, teasing, and things of that nature, but not pure evil.  There are certainly evil characters on the show that can't be forgiven or reformed, which is good, because it would be silly and unentertaining (<--that's not a word?  what?) to paint a world that's so perfect that no evil exists.  But the bullies have never done anything evil, so I think they are forgivable, but some more easily that others.  Reforms on FIM are always quick, though, and it would be nice if we saw a reformed villain/bully working a bit harder to make up for what they've done.  We need to see a bit more consequences.

 

Irl, I try to take a line from the page of FIM, particularly the CMC, and try to understand and forgive more often, rather than blindly hating someone who's rude to me.  If I had had my way long ago, I'd have thrown Diamond Tiara into a wood chipper.  I'da been wrong, wouldn't I?

[azbat 301]

Back-stabbing Suri Polomare was never really forgiven and the only punishment she got was losing Coco as her slave.

[Silver Stream. 708]

Back-stabbing Suri Polomare was never really forgiven and the only punishment she got was losing Coco as her slave.

I will forever question why I busted out laughing after reading this. But yeah good point xD

TLDR.  (I'm sorry.)  I think most bullies typically are forgivable, because the term bully in itself implies rather petty rudeness, teasing, and things of that nature, but not pure evil.  There are certainly evil characters on the show that can't be forgiven or reformed, which is good, because it would be silly and unentertaining (<--that's not a word?  what?) to paint a world that's so perfect that no evil exists.  But the bullies have never done anything evil, so I think they are forgivable, but some more easily that others.  Reforms on FIM are always quick, though, and it would be nice if we saw a reformed villain/bully working a bit harder to make up for what they've done.  We need to see a bit more consequences.

 

Irl, I try to take a line from the page of FIM, particularly the CMC, and try to understand and forgive more often, rather than blindly hating someone who's rude to me.  If I had had my way long ago, I'd have thrown Diamond Tiara into a wood chipper.  I'da been wrong, wouldn't I?

I see what you mean, but again, I'm not questioning whether or not a bully is forgivable....I'm referring to how some bullies shouldn't be as easily forgivable than the other.

 

DT is a case that needed more time. Yet Lightningdust was thrown out the Wonderbolts for making a mistake. True...she did risk the lives of others, but one would the think the Wonderbolt Academy was partly the blame because it's been proven a few times that they are way too lenient with how they manage their members....which leads to large egos and blind competitive spirits.

 

Gilda yelled at people and it took seasons before she had a chance of redemption.

 

 

So my problem isn't bullies being forgiven...it's certain bullies being EASILY forgiven with a quick turn around that doesn't do any justice. Not to mention the lack of consequences (as you already mention) for those who NEED a consequence. Such as DT and Babs

Edited December 2, 2015 by Silver Stream.

[Flying_Endeavor 73]

I do not think Sombra would ever be forgiven, nor would he repent for what he has done. xD 

 

Speaking of Sombra, do you think he would come back once the Crystal Heart gets knocked out of place? 

I am kinda planning of something for my story, and well, I would like to know your opinions on this.  

[Steel Accord 6,658]

In what realm was Starlight's forgiveness "easy?"

 

In all seriousness, I disagree with the OP. Everyone deserves forgiveness and that a show goes out of its way to show how preferable that is to beating the villain outright is something I count as one of its strengths.

 

[silvadel 1,393]

Funny enough, every bully Rainbow Dash has had, has never been forgiven. She's gotten Lightning Dust and Wind Rider kicked out of the Wonderbolts with no redemption (just crushed careers). Also, in the newest episode, Sven Galllop leaves on bad terms as well.

 

Twilight Forgives.  Dash takes numbers and kicks flank.  Somehow I don't see a bully of Rarity faring that well either(The diamond dogs lost all their gems, Blueblood ended up covered in cake, Suri lost her apprentice -- thing is if somepony REALLY took on Rarity they could have it worse than if they took on RD).

[Silver Stream. 708]

In what realm was Starlight's forgiveness "easy?"

 

In all seriousness, I disagree with the OP. Everyone deserves forgiveness and that a show goes out of its way to show how preferable that is to beating the villain outright is something I count as one of its strengths.

 

 

 

I can agree with this but again, not really challenging characters being forgiven in general. I am fully aware of what the show is trying to accomplish. After all, the best way to defeat an enemy is to make them your friend. Which was taught in a literal sense within the episode "Keep Calm and Flutter On" and "The Cutie Re-Map"

 

 

It's the sense that consequences are completely ignored when they are most needed but then harshly used on others. It is a strength, but does it still excuse what they've done? I wouldn't think so. Here is the best example of what SHOULD happen with over half the bullies shown to be forgiven in less than 30seconds:

 

Sunset Shimmer in RainbowRocks. I admired how she was still having troubles gaining everyon'e trust. While I am not a person who heavily relies on a kids show to give harsh consequences some may receive in real life, I do expect something of what happened to Sunset Shimmer. Discord is another good example.

 

But in the case with Babs and DT....personally I thought it was all a mess that could have potentially went in a better direction.   

[ManaMinori 4,143]

Forgiveness in mlp is based on whether the pony wants to be forgiven, and seek redemption, and saw that their past actions were wrong. Trixie, Gilda, Sunset Shimmer, Starlight Glimmer, Babs, Diamond Tiara, and Discord all did.

Flim, Flam, Windrider, Lightning Dust, Tirek, Sombra, all didn't.

Nightmare moon.....really wasn't given a choice, either way, but fel into the latter category, and was forcibly rainbow beamed to good, again.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

Forgiveness in mlp is based on whether the pony wants to be forgiven, and seek redemption, and saw that their past actions were wrong. Trixie, Gilda, Sunset Shimmer, Starlight Glimmer, Babs, Diamond Tiara, and Discord all did.

Flim, Flam, Windrider, Lightning Dust, Tirek, Sombra, all didn't.

Nightmare moon.....really wasn't given a choice, either way, but fel into the latter category, and was forcibly rainbow beamed to good, again.

 

I can't believe I'm saying this, but I agree with Nightmare Muffin.

[1Bit 1,531]

Really, its easy to criticise how easily some are forgiven in FiM, but it does seem that forgiveness and reformation is just a given for the show due to its morals and themes. Anyone who can be redeemed, will be redeemed.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

Sunset Shimmer in RainbowRocks. I admired how she was still having troubles gaining everyon'e trust. While I am not a person who heavily relies on a kids show to give harsh consequences some may receive in real life, I do expect something of what happened to Sunset Shimmer. Discord is another good example.   But in the case with Babs and DT....personally I thought it was all a mess that could have potentially went in a better direction.

 

Take it from someone who just finished children's entertainment course, it's not "easy" but there are limits as to what you can do and as good as this show is, subtlety is not a tool it employs. Sunset was given the benefit of time allocation. She had the end of one movie to begin her redemption, another to experience the fallout of her actions, and yet another to solidify her more stable status. Compare that to most characters only having the focus of one episode. We only saw Starlight Glimmer four times, twice if you count the two parters as one. She wasn't a reoccurring character the same way Discord even was when he was recovering.

 

Discord DID go through a back and forth arc, he wasn't just magically fixed. Hell he even had a relapse! That was more than I was expecting.

 

Babs and Diamond Tiara are both children, their actions, while cruel, are simple to come back from. What does pulling someone's hair warrant jail time if they're five?

Edited December 2, 2015 by Steel Accord

[Silver Stream. 708]

I don't recall Gilda or  Discord actually seeking redemption. I don't even think Starlight Glimmer desired it at all. Only when they are introduced or reminded of something better is when they take a look at their mistakes. 

 

Any and every character is capable of redemption. Whether they seek it or not. Lightning Dust wasn't even given a chance. 

It is easy to criticize how easily a character is forgiven in the show BECAUSE of how others easily get the boot. Lightning Dust risk ponies falling to their deaths because she wants to take the easy way out and is kicked out of the Wonderbolts with no chance to redeem herself. 

 

Starlight messes up time giving horrible futures and nearly destroys everything, but is shown a better path and offered friendship. Starlight was even willing to accept just the slightest punishment for what she did, so I don't really think it all depends on what a character seeks.

 

 

 

Take it from someone who just finished children's entertainment course, it's not "easy" but there are limits as to what you can do and as good as this show is, subtlety is not a tool it employs. Sunset was given the benefit of time allocation. She had the end of one movie to begin her redemption, another to experience the fallout of her actions, and yet another to solidify her more stable status. Compare that to most characters only having the focus of one episode. We only saw Starlight Glimmer four times, twice if you count the two parters as one. She wasn't a reoccurring character the same way Discord even was when he was recovering.

 

Discord DID go through a back and forth arc, he wasn't just magically fixed. Hell he even had a relapse! That was more than I was expecting.

 

Babs and Diamond Tiara are both children, their actions, while cruel, are simple to come back from. What does pulling someone's hair warrant jail time if they're five?

 

I don't recall saying children needs to be locked up and I definitely didn't inquire DT an Babs deserving that harsh of a punishment for their actions so I'm going to overlook that. 

 

And oddly enough, I saw Discord's relapse predictable. He's the embodiment of chaos...it's in his nature so he was bound to slip at some point. The attitude the mane 5 had towards Discord (before "What about Discord") was realistic in some way where he wasn't easily nor fully forgiven for his past mistakes. 

 

 

Aside from the little things I disagreed with in what Nightmare Muffin said, I will admit that it's a fair thing to point out regardless. Perhaps the best response that is potentially a mind changer for me in how I believe some characters shouldn't be easily forgiven when it comes to their actions. And that's not just towards antagonists....it's towards protagonists as well. Example: The CMC in "Ponyville Confiential". They weren't easily forgiven at all...which was something I was impressed with. It took a little more to convince Ponyville they were genuinely sorry for what they did an quit for goo. 

Edited December 2, 2015 by Silver Stream.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

 

 

I don't recall saying children needs to be locked up and I definitely didn't inquire DT an Babs deserving that harsh of a punishment for their actions so I'm going to overlook that.

 

No need, I wasn't indicting that you were even saying such. Just that what else could one give a child apart from a stern talking to? Babs almost got run off a cliff and Diamond Tiara's "punishment" was from not being perfect by her mother.

 

 

And oddly enough, I saw Discord's relapse predictable. He's the embodiment of chaos...it's in his nature so he was bound to slip at some point. The attitude the mane 5 had towards Discord (before "What about Discord") was realistic in some way where he wasn't easily nor fully forgiven for his past mistakes. 

 

I agree and fully sympathized. I'm still wary about him to this day.

 

 

 

Aside from the little things I disagreed with in what Nightmare Muffin said, I will admit that it's a fair thing to point out regardless. Perhaps the best response that is potentially a mind changer for me in how I believe some characters shouldn't be easily forgiven when it comes to their actions. And that's not just towards antagonists....it's towards protagonists as well. Example: The CMC in "Ponyville Confiential". They weren't easily forgiven at all...which was something I was impressed with. It took a little more to convince Ponyville they were genuinely sorry for what they did an quit for goo. 

 

Let me ask this then, is this an attitude you hold yourself in life? I only ask because many times people project their own values on to the things they like, which is fine! It's art, we all interpret it differently and I'm not even disagreeing completely with the intent.

 

I'm very much a forgive and forget sort of guy so I don't keep grudges that well and this reflects my attitude when it comes to character redemption. I'm just curious is all if you don't hold the same in life and therefore wish the fiction you enjoy reflects that.

[Silver Stream. 708]

No need, I wasn't indicting that you were even saying such. Just that what else could one give a child apart from a stern talking to? Babs almost got run off a cliff and Diamond Tiara's "punishment" was from not being perfect by her mother.

 

I don't even think Babs got a stern talking to. And tbh....the CMC in that episode weren't in the right either. As I said, that whole episode really rubbed me the wrong way in how everything was handled from BOTH sides. If only I could runs someone's bull off a cliff an avoid a nice scolding let alone some minor punishment xD 

 

And DT's situation was....mm...nah not going into that. I've already explained how I feel about all that. 

 

 

I wonder....given to what's been said. If Sombra seeked redemption from enslaving a pony race in the past, and shadowing the Crystal Empire in darkness and a ruthless reign, would it have made sense of even been fair if they all simply forgave him so easily and allowed him to live among them without caution? 

[MasterSpark95 430]

Back-stabbing Suri Polomare was never really forgiven and the only punishment she got was losing Coco as her slave.

Ok, this made me laugh. I think you still make a pretty good point about it, though.

Edited December 2, 2015 by iNachos10

[Silver Stream. 708]

Let me ask this then, is this an attitude you hold yourself in life? I only ask because many times people project their own values on to the things they like, which is fine! It's art, we all interpret it differently and I'm not even disagreeing completely with the intent.

 

I'm very much a forgive and forget sort of guy so I don't keep grudges that well and this reflects my attitude when it comes to character redemption. I'm just curious is all if you don't hold the same in life and therefore wish the fiction you enjoy reflects that.

 

Nah xD. It actually takes A LOT for me to even reach a point where I'm angry and must work on forgiving someone. I mean...a lot. This is merely my common sense speaking on the matter. I just think it's weird how some characters receive harsher punishment than others for less extreme actions xD

[Steel Accord 6,658]

I don't even think Babs got a stern talking to. And tbh....the CMC in that episode weren't in the right either. As I said, that whole episode really rubbed me the wrong way in how everything was handled from BOTH sides. If only I could runs someone's bull off a cliff an avoid a nice scolding let alone some minor punishment xD 

 

And DT's situation was....mm...nah not going into that. I've already explained how I feel about all that. 

 

 

I wonder....given to what's been said. If Sombra seeked redemption from enslaving a pony race in the past, and shadowing the Crystal Empire in darkness and a ruthless reign, would it have made sense of even been fair if they all simply forgave him so easily and allowed him to live among them without caution? 

 

Well thank you for sparing me as that was easily one of my favorite episodes in the entire show. Pathos over logos be damned.

 

And I would say yes, but that's just the thing. I don't think he would. Nothing we've seen of Sombra leads us to believe he had any regret of what he'd done. Yes, sympathetic backstory, Voldemort was also picked on as a kid, didn't make him any less a monster. (In fact, it probably helped him on his way there.)

Nah xD. It actually takes A LOT for me to even reach a point where I'm angry and must work on forgiving someone. I mean...a lot. This is merely my common sense speaking on the matter. I just think it's weird how some characters receive harsher punishment than others for less extreme actions xD

 

First of all thank you for not taking my inquiry the wrong way, second of all, I see.