Silver Stream.

Is every bully in mlp easily forgivable?

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Well thank you for sparing me as that was easily one of my favorite episodes in the entire show. Pathos over logos be damned.

 

And I would say yes, but that's just the thing. I don't think he would. Nothing we've seen of Sombra leads us to believe he had any regret of what he'd done. Yes, sympathetic backstory, Voldemort was also picked on as a kid, didn't make him any less a monster. (In fact, it probably helped him on his way there.)

 

First of all thank you for not taking my inquiry the wrong way, second of all, I see.

 You're welcome. I felt as though I've given that episode enough of piece of my mind. I don't intend on sounding like a broken record on something I care little for. 

 

And of course. It was merely something you was curious about to, I suppose, have a little more insight on my perspective on this subject. *shugs* nothing wrong with that. 

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On 12/2/2015 at 3:12 AM, Justin_Case001 said:

TLDR.  (I'm sorry.)  I think most bullies typically are forgivable, because the term bully in itself implies rather petty rudeness, teasing, and things of that nature, but not pure evil.  There are certainly evil characters on the show that can't be forgiven or reformed, which is good, because it would be silly and unentertaining (<--that's not a word?  what?) to paint a world that's so perfect that no evil exists.  But the bullies have never done anything evil, so I think they are forgivable, but some more easily that others.  Reforms on FIM are always quick, though, and it would be nice if we saw a reformed villain/bully working a bit harder to make up for what they've done.  We need to see a bit more consequences.

 

Irl, I try to take a line from the page of FIM, particularly the CMC, and try to understand and forgive more often, rather than blindly hating someone who's rude to me.  If I had had my way long ago, I'd have thrown Diamond Tiara into a wood chipper.  I'da been wrong, wouldn't I?

 I agree that they are forgivable because bullies are just people/ponies who feel bad about themselves and feel like they can take it out on others. That also is the reason bullies feel superior to others. 

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12 hours ago, Princess Cheese Dorito said:

 I agree that they are forgivable because bullies are just people/ponies who feel bad about themselves and feel like they can take it out on others. That also is the reason bullies feel superior to others. 

Oh, wow.  Quite an old post you resurrected.  That's cool.  I like seeing what I wrote four years ago to see if my opinions have changed at all.  I still like what I said on this matter.  I could add to it, now.  I'd have to check the episode dates, but I probably wrote that post pre-Starlight Glimmer.  So now we have had a redemption that was a longer, more difficult road, so that's cool.

I've thought a bit about forgiveness and redemption, and what, if any, crimes are unforgivable.  Like, in real life, are there crimes or people so evil that they can never be forgiven?  Is there an event horizon of evil beyond which no one can be forgiven or redeemed?  I'd have to say, a bit tentatively... no.  I don't think so.  But the requirement for forgiveness is that the person who did wrong must change in such a way that they now see their actions the way the rest of us see them.  There must be a significant enough change in the wrong-doer such that they now stand in relationship to their former self in the same way we do, and we must be adequately convinced of that change.  Oh, don't get me wrong--the despicable evil of which monsters are capable is so sickening that my knee jerk reaction has always been that evil can never be forgiven, and must be destroyed.  But if you can imagine an evil person changing to the point where they see their former self as a monster, and are disgusted by that person and racked with guilt, then you must rethink forgiveness.

Take for instance the case of Charles Whitman, the infamous tower sniper of the sixties, who killed his wife, mother, and then climbed a clock tower and shot a bunch of random people.  If ever there was a case of unambiguous, pure evil, Whitman sure sounds like it.  Before shooting himself, he left a suicide note telling authorities to autopsy his brain because he suspected there was something seriously wrong with him.  Sure enough, examiners found a brain tumor pressing on the aggression center of his brain.  He had complained of feeling unable to control violent impulses.  What if we had had the ability to intervene before his crimes and remove the tumor and cure him?  What if he had been a kind and gentle person after the surgery?  We would no longer have viewed him as evil, but simply as an unfortunate victim that we were luckily able to help.

Surely, some evil in the world seems to enjoy being evil to the point where it's impossible to imagine redemption, and it may be impossible to see past our natural desire for retribution, but just imagine if other evil doers had brain malfunctions like Whitman that we just aren't able to see yet.  What if they could be treated and cured?  A great example of this idea is the Star Trek Voyager episode Repentance.  That episode perfectly demonstrates the kind of change I'm talking about, where an evil person comes to view their former self as we do.

I have trouble with some of these ideas, though.  I feel hypocritical when I hear of evil deeds in the world, because it makes me wish for the suffering and death of the evil-doers.  On an emotional level, I've always had a bit of the Hammurabi code in me--and eye for an eye.  If someone harmed me or someone I love, I'd want revenge.  Kratosian revenge.  Medieval justice.  I was bullied a lot in school, and I spent a lot of mental energy imagining horrible way for my tormentors to die.  I never struck back at them, thankfully, but I wanted brutal revenge.  But that's not a right or wise way to be, which is why it's good that I'm not in charge of our justice system.  We have to protect ourselves from evil, but we should also try to be understanding when able, and look for ways to help bullies or other cruel people.  If all we do is hurt the bullies back, then we're no better--we're just more of the same.

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There's quite a lot of bullying and passive aggressive behavior here on the forum. I was shocked when I first joined. Then again, I was pretty star struck by MLP, so my expectations were pretty high too. I thought it would be a different kind of place, and in some ways it is, but it's still a social structure vulnerable to everything human.

I believe there will always be justice. Some how some way, aggressive and mean people will pay their dues. Sometimes you are part of it, sometimes not. Whether or not the the bullies change as a result of the backlash is another matter.

All in all, I think it's most important not to take bullying too personally. The show is really good at showing this. As long as you keep an open mind, dismiss thoughts of revenge and refuse to stoop down to their level, you can help them realize their folly.

Another important aspect of the show is that villains are dealt with forcefully, but not violently. That is, the ponies don't let the villains walk all over them, but they at least try to retaliate with as little force as possible. Sometimes they must fight back, but only as a last resort. But even as they fight, their purpose is to first stop them, remove their power away from them, and then try to redeem them. So in a nutshell, their ethic is interesting (there are exceptions, but generally):

1) the ponies call out abuse of power.

3) they plead for the villain to stop.

3) they often warn of retaliation before they carry it out.

4) they eventually fight back, in sorrow.

5) when the villain's power is removed, they try to reconcile.

6) they always forgive, even if the villain doesn't reconcile.

Obviously, scenarios like Sombra and the Crystal Empire are different. In that sense, the villain is not really personal, but more like a catastrophe, like a terrible storm that they try to survive through. 

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Most are, seeing as forgiving one and giving them another chance is a better alternative to leaving them alone to continue with their ways. I can forgive and sympathise with these characters easily, as I'm fond of the concept of giving one another chance. 

Edited by Cash In

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