music When does music stop being art?

[ManaMinori 4,143]

While listening to "the phoenix" by Fallout Boy, and loving the in your face feel to it, i started thinking about my religion. We're advised to evaluate everything we watch, everything we listen to, and rid ourselves of it, if the show or song's message, theme, etc promote things other than bible standards (sex, murder, violece, etc), and for what doesn't, use good conscious to keep exposing (or not), ourselves to what media or music falls into the grey areas. And while the song in question, could be seen by someone of the same religion as something to steer clear from, judging on the harsh beats and almost aggressively sung lyrcs, i think that it's great song, and the wy i interpret the lyrics alone is like my spiritual journey and goals, and my old life, a story told of light and darkness, i suppose.

 

At what point does music stop being "interpreted" by its lyrics or beat, and like an actual work of art, by nature, for you, and just becomes a piece of garbage that leaves no interpretation? Do you prefer music with lyrics that could be interpreted in your own understanding, or not?

[Denim&Venöm 16,503]

I think it becomes garbage when you can't relate to it or it states the obvious. 

Most Christmas music is garbage cause the themes state the obvious. It's Christmas. It's snowing. Happy holidays. Snuggle by the fire. Don't be lonely on the holidays. Be more engaging that that.

 

Most pop music falls under that category too. Romance, breaking up, getting back together, and partying like it's 2008. I can't relate to it cause those relationships don';t involve me. It involves someone else the signer new. By thinking we care, they come off as egotistical.

 

Oh, and rap music too. I don't need to hear about thuggin. Don't need to hear about life in the club. Don't need to hear about how rich you've become. Don't need to hear how you'll bust a cap in somebodies posterior. All of that just comes off as overcompensating posturing. 


And the ladder two have so much auto tune, so much use of pro-tools, and so many producers and writers making up repetitive nonsensical lyrics. 
 

Effort by the artist, and a fair display of legitimate creativity and technical skill in their craft, is a very big first step in making music into art. 

[Anneal 2,194]

It'll be rather inaccurate to say that certain types of music isn't art. Music is by definition art, so saying something like "obvious holiday music" or "modern pop songs" are not art is invoking the No True Scotsman fallacy.

 

You don't have to agree with the lyrics.

 

You don't have to like it.

 

You don't have to think it's engaging.

 

Art can be interpreted in any way, even if it's in a way that you don't find agreeable. A urinary or a bicycle wheel could be a piece of art if you say it is – Duchamp believed it was.

[Lisa 5,552]

Music is art, all the time, no matter what case.

 

As defined by Oxford Dictionary:

'Vocal or instrumental sounds (or both) combined in such a way as to produce beauty of form, harmony, and expression of emotion.'

 

That last part (especially expression of emotion) correlates with art. You can have your generic rap song about fucking bitches and getting money that most people will say isn't art because it's generic, but does it have beauty of form; does it have rises and climaxes, and/or does it have harmony; does it sound pleasing to the hear? In tune? And/or does it have expression of emotion; does it contain emotion? Specifically for a song rapping about fucking bitches and getting money, does the rapper sing in a harsh tone? Does his lyrics/voice present you with an emotion?

 

Almost all songs will do either of the above: provide beauty of form, harmony and/or expression of emotion. If so, they are art.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Holiday on the Moon

[cider float 2,535]

That's why you should just stick to instrumental music. Without lyrics you would never guess what the vibes come from.

 

I always try to look for songs that are instrumental or converted to instrumental music, the feelings and emotions on them is genuinely your own. I also prefers the sound of instrumental rather than someone singing. Of course there are some songs I do like are vocal like pillar's Frontline.

Edited December 1, 2015 by cider float

[Castle Bleck 19,166]

It stops being art when Justin Bieber's involved.

[Sabrinie 391]

I think all music is art in it's own right. Having something to say and saying it is artful; at least if you're trying to make it so. I don't think it's up to us as an audience to say what is and what isn't art. For years people put a lens on what art is and many artists died without ever being recognized as artists because of this lens. I'm mainly talking about painters and fine artists like Van Gogh, but this applies for all of the arts. Who are we to say that someone's art isn't art. When the artist creates, he creates art. It's really as simple as that.

 

Of course with music, as well as with fine art, you can interpret it however you like, but the artist's original intent is all that truly matters. For example, I create somewhat "gross" pieces using urine and the oxidation process it goes through when sprayed onto metallic pigment (a process that Andy Warhol used). My intent is to get a gut reaction out of the audience. To make them think about the gross as something of beauty and to sit with the uncomfortability of that fact. If someone doesn't have this reaction and they see it as a social commentary on the Cold War, that doesn't change the original intent. As the artist, I put my own interpretation on it, and that's the most important interpretation. 

 

The audience's interpretations aren't invalid, but they don't change the fact that what was created was art. Their interpretation may be different from the artist's but they have no authority to say that their interpretation is the correct one or that the piece is not art because of their own feelings being projected onto it.

 

Wow...that kind of went off topic...I just get kind of fired up when it comes to art...

It'll be rather inaccurate to say that certain types of music isn't art. Music is by definition art, so saying something like "obvious holiday music" or "modern pop songs" are not art is invoking the No True Scotsman fallacy.

 

You don't have to agree with the lyrics.

 

You don't have to like it.

 

You don't have to think it's engaging.

 

Art can be interpreted in any way, even if it's in a way that you don't find agreeable. A urinary or a bicycle wheel could be a piece of art if you say it is – Duchamp believed it was.

 

YAAASSSSS. DUCHAMP EXAMPLE IS BEAUTIFUL AND PERFECT. 

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,809]

The point where music is no longer art, is when it "tells" and doesn't "show". 

 

This is the problem with todays pop music. Because many pop artists are young, they tend to rely on subjects that young audiences can relate to. However, because they tell too much, rather than "show", it rolls off as very cheesy. Let's take one of the worst pop songs of 2013: Call Me Maybe. 

 

This song, is not art at all. It's really an attempt to try to make a song that could catch people just like that. 

 

Let's examine the lyrics of the chorus

 

Hey I just met you

And this is crazy

But here's my number

So call me maybe

 

Alright, so right off the bat, Jempson is already saying she met this boy and that this is crazy. How could this meeting be crazy if she just met the boy. Then she just randomly gives him her phone number, like if he's already her friend. What in the hay is this? And then she goes on to say this:

 

It's hard to look right at ya baby

But here's my number

So call me maybe

 

You see where I'm going with this whole thing right?

 

This can apply to all genres of music. It's like the artists have run out of themes to write about, or this generation loves these type of themes. 

 

It's also like that dirty rap of today. It's the same thing over and over again: money, sex, women, drugs...

 

Like...there's no story. Music tells a story and that's what makes it art. When there's no story and artists are just rambling on about how much money they have or who they're going to take their anger out on. 

 

I loved rap back in the day, when the rappers told their story and how they grew up and how it affected them. It made us think about how we grew up and reminds us to know where you came from and be thankful. 

 

In terms of holiday music, although the theme is limited to three sections: The Birth of Jesus Christ, Santa Claus and The General Holiday Spirit, artists still strive to show and not tell. That's what's so beautiful about holiday music. 

 

So in the end, music is no longer art when:

 

• The artist tells too much
• There is no story
• The theme is to common (example: Harsh breakups)

[1Bit 1,531]

Art is a very personal thing. While a painting or song or story may be intended as art, art is only art in the eye of the beholder. One may consider a certain track to be art, while someone else might not.

 

I personally think  music ceases to be art, when it clearly begins to lack creativity, or is created more to sell records and record labels than for the enjoyment of its listeners. When an artist puts true passion into their musical pieces, that is when music, to me, is art.

[Phill 1,285]

All music is art. Anyone who says otherwise is a music snob 

[best poni 1,518]

I would say that all music is always art, but there are some people who don't know what there doing. A majority music is art 

[indie.spitfire 16]

well, a good example is "the mane attraction".  The first song isn't really art. there is no meaning in it, its just there to make money. The second is beautiful, thought out, and has meaning. it is art.

[Dovashy 1,734]

Just because it seems trashy, or terrible doesn't invalidate it as a form of art. Art is subject and relative, there's no way to define something as being art, or not. 

 

As much as it pains me to say it but "Hot Problems", or "On the Floor" by IceJJFish are no less art than say, Beethoven or Mozart. They're simply just terribly done pieces, but because of this it doesn't render them anything holistically less. 

[Denim&Venöm 16,503]

So, the vibe I'm getting is that there's no consensus. Everysong is or isn't art. 

I made it clear where I stand. However, it's fair to say that some songs are far more artistic than others, sometimes to magnitudes of degrees. Yes, you can say all music is art, the same way splattering paint or a three year old scribbling on the wall is art. But compared to those that try their hardest, take days, weeks, years to finish a piece, you can tell what's more deserving to be called art over the other. 

 

Case in point:

[Fluttershyfan94 5,738]

I would say that all music is art as long there is some effort put into it. Since I see art as a way of expression, therefore I don't think it ever stops being an art really.