spoiler Is anybody else tired of the whole "villains reforming" concept?

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

It's ok at times but just once I wanted to have a permanent Trixie archetype character who would remain evil. But both Sunset Shimmer and Starlight Glimmer ended up turning good. I guess it sorta made sense for Discord to reform since he was never really evil to begin with. Just mischievous. And I'm also ok with Diamond Tiara reforming since she wasn't really a villain or antagonist. Just a bully. And it won't really surprise me if Queen Chrysalis ends up being redeemed since Hasbro might decide to cater to the headcanons of all these fanboys that want her to just be misunderstood. But characters like King Sombra are supposed to be pure evil. Characters like him for example aren't supposed to be redeemable. Read the comics for more info if you don't believe me. And I swear if Tirek ends up turning good I just might end up leaving the fandom...He was supposed to be evil incarnate...He disowned his own brother and used deception along with power and destruction to get what he wanted...If they're gonna make Sombra a good guy they might as well make Adolf Hitler a good guy...And if they're gonna make Tirek a good guy they might as well make the devil a good guy...It's ridiculous...Point is there are some villains who just shouldn't be redeemed.

 

 

I tend to be more annoyed at the minor antagonists turning good than the Big villains, Ironic as that may be.

 

Specifically because the minor antagonists can return and be recurring foils to the mane six without forcing them to break out the World destroying level magics to stop them, allowing for decent Low level adventure or slice of life stories, while the Big villains have less potential for episodes since you only have a few two parters.

 

So I don't mind characters like Nightmare moon and Discord so much as I mind characters like Trixie or Starlight glimmer (Honestly, starlight was given plot armor to the 10th degree to make her a two parter villain in the most recent episode, and was more or less just on par with Trixie with the alicorn amulet to me, right down to petty "revenge" motivation). or Lightning dust reforming.

How would they even reform Wind Rider?

Have him realize that Corruption and cheating only make you seem more pathetic and that he's being self defeating in trying to get revenge on dash in underhanded ways to reestablish his image.

Alternatively, have him realize that he was a hero to young pegasi growing up and be shamed into trying to make amends by realizing that his evil actions broke the dreams of young pegasi who looked up to him as a role model.

 

 

 

I wouldn't put it past the staff to come up with a freudian excuse, I mean they made Gilda, a character EXPLICITLY created by Faust to show that there are some people who you can't be friends with no matter how hard you try, a huge woobie who's evil actions were just because "mah dash" and fear of losing her friend.

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

I tend to be more annoyed at the minor antagonists turning good than the Big villains, Ironic as that may be.

 

Specifically because the minor antagonists can return and be recurring foils to the mane six without forcing them to break out the World destroying level magics to stop them, allowing for decent Low level adventure or slice of life stories, while the Big villains have less potential for episodes since you only have a few two parters.

 

So I don't mind characters like Nightmare moon and Discord so much as I mind characters like Trixie or Starlight glimmer (Honestly, starlight was given plot armor to the 10th degree to make her a two parter villain in the most recent episode, and was more or less just on par with Trixie with the alicorn amulet to me, right down to petty "revenge" motivation). or Lightning dust reforming.

Have him realize that Corruption and cheating only make you seem more pathetic and that he's being self defeating in trying to get revenge on dash in underhanded ways to reestablish his image.

Alternatively, have him realize that he was a hero to young pegasi growing up and be shamed into trying to make amends by realizing that his evil actions broke the dreams of young pegasi who looked up to him as a role model.

 

 

 

I wouldn't put it past the staff to come up with a freudian excuse, I mean they made Gilda, a character EXPLICITLY created by Faust to show that there are some people who you can't be friends with no matter how hard you try, a huge woobie who's evil actions were just because "mah dash" and fear of losing her friend.

 

What kind of Freudian excuse could they come up with? Maybe he grew up poor.

[El Duderino 878]

This is why I hated the Disney movie "Maleficent". It portrays her as just misunderstood. NO. She is supposed to be the embodiment of evil. Her name had the word "mal" in it, which means "bad". She was designed to be an evil character.

[Sazama Ichida 2,352]

This is why I hated the Disney movie "Maleficent". It portrays her as just misunderstood. NO. She is supposed to be the embodiment of evil. Her name had the word "mal" in it, which means "bad". She was designed to be an evil character.

Not only that but the actual dictionary definition of her name is:

 

1. doing evil or harm; harmfully malicious:

maleficent destroyers of reputations.

2. causing or capable of producing evil or mischief; harmful or baleful

Edited December 9, 2015 by Asbel Lhant

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

What kind of Freudian excuse could they come up with? Maybe he grew up poor.

Obviously he had a douchey mother who yelled at him for failing

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

Obviously he had a douchey mother who yelled at him for failing

 

Or he had a father who had a win at any cost attitude. 

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Or he had a father who had a win at any cost attitude. 

I was more just joking about how bad of an excuse "My parent yells at me!" was for DT's reform XD

 

 

but yeah, they could always do the "insane sports father" angle

Edited December 10, 2015 by Unlikeable Pony

[Changeling Neon 391]

I was okay with it up until Starlight Glimmer

[cider float 2,535]

This is why I hated the Disney movie "Maleficent". It portrays her as just misunderstood. NO. She is supposed to be the embodiment of evil. Her name had the word "mal" in it, which means "bad". She was designed to be an evil character.

That was a terrible movie. 

[Glike 487]

While I do think there are some villains who's redemptions were rushed, I actually don't think Starlight was one of them.

 

She had a 2 parter premiere that already showed how "unhinged" she was. We know that she was legitimately friends with other ponies for a certain time period at least. And in the season finale, it wasn't rushed at all. No matter what Twilight tried, she was adamant about changing the future, even after seeing the ruined future. She told Twilight her backstory, and even then she went on to try and destroy the scroll. It actually took Twilight some effort to talk her down from it before she finally listened, and for good reason. Twilight made points that resonated with her, it's not like she did a 180.

 

It also mostly seems quick because there was a whole song about her reformation which by the looks of it spanned over some time. Yes, maybe episodes about her interacting with the Mane Six would be better, but at least it's not like it all happened on the same day. The song was a way to quickly show her progression over time.

 

She already has a much better reformation than Sunset, in my opinion, and so far I'd say even better than Discord. Discord didn't even have a backstory, and he was very quick to switch over. I don't know, Starlight's just feels more natural to me.

 

Plus, it's either they take her in or they punish her with the chance that she'd snap again and become an even greater threat. They chose the lesser of two evils.

[EverEverOn 346]

Personally, the idea of the villains all being reformed might be sending out a rather interesting message. I feel like it's saying that anyone has the potential to be great, and that overcoming who you used to be can make things a whole lot better later on in life.

 

However, I would like to see a villain stay evil for more than one season.

[Glike 487]

Personally, the idea of the villains all being reformed might be sending out a rather interesting message. I feel like it's saying that anyone has the potential to be great, and that overcoming who you used to be can make things a whole lot better later on in life.

However, I would like to see a villain stay evil for more than one season.

Svengallop and Diamond Tiara's mother for recurring villains confirmed.

[Maze 100]

Wowie. Sure, she was a villain but guys, she's just a pony. Her motivation of being evil was halfassed if anything, that wouldn't stand strong of a motivation for too long... That reason was screaming redemption all over.

The other villains surely won't be redeemed. There's no way!

[Goat-kun 2,498]

Villains make or break the whole thing as much as your heroes … Unless you have some feels good 18: 00 toddler program shit going on, but that’s another story.

 

We can all put the show’s bible on our chests and bang our heads into the floor cause friendship is magic, but we should also ask ourselves if this is indeed fun for the average viewer. It’s repetitive, predictable, it tends to disregard visually and thematically interesting villains, and it clogs the stage with unnecessary characters that now all compete for those precious episodes. This isn’t about personal preference but about throwing wrenches in your IP’s clockwork because of short-term convenience. Think of these redeemed characters as fat deposits in atherosclerosis: the more you have the greater the ischemia in your story, and MLP is in PAOD stage 3 territory. It’s also a vicious circle: the more villains you redeem, the more villains/calamities you need to make them look good. It never ends.

[Sunny Fox 5,929]

Eeyup. Redemption never should have happened to Discord. I mean, the literal spirit of disharmony is now all buddy buddy with the literal embodiment (in six parts) of harmony? How does that work? FiM really needs an episode to teach the lesson that some people are, by their own choice, beyond your help. Heck, in the bible, even the disciplines were instructed to knock the dust of the place where they were not welcomed off their sandals.

 

In some cases, it makes sense, like with Luna it was more a case of restoring her to her original state. It took an entire movie to make Sunset Shimmer's turn around stick, even if the original redemption was a bit out of left field. Otherwise it's just too optimistic to expect every villain to either reform or die.

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

I was more just joking about how bad of an excuse "My parent yells at me!" was for DT's reform XD

 

 

but yeah, they could always do the "insane sports father" angle

And as reformation, he becomes a coach for young pegasi. 

[GeekySonic 1,150]

I quite appreciate the concept. I like the fact that they don't cast away antagonists after they're done with them. And I think they've handled reformations very well up to this point.

 

Tirek, Chrysalis, and Sombra were genuinely evil, and nobody let them off the hook. So let's look at the ones who reformed:

 

Luna had succumbed to magical corruption of some sort out of jealousy. The EoH managed to banish it from her, but it took a long time for her to even forgive herself.

 

Discord just kinda tricked himself into making friends; I don't think he ever "reformed". He was over the top, but I don't think he was ever evil, just rather unconcerned about others.

 

Trixie simply sought recognition. She got jealous, and similar to Luna, let herself be used by dark magic.

 

Flim and Flam are just really selfish. (I didn't watch the episodes they're in, but I don't think they were forgiven. Let me know if I'm wrong)

 

Sunset was the only one I had a problem with, but they did a good job expanding upon it in the following movies.

 

(Twilight in FG had the same problem, but it was a little more believeable since we saw her before she used the magic)

 

As for Starlight, I don't even think she was a villain. She had misguided motives to gain a sense of fulfillment (we even saw her backstory), but when Twilight showed her what her actions led to, she used her own judgment to make the right choice.

 

No blasting her with a rainbow or anything. I loved the finale, and I think it was executed to perfection.

 

The really evil characters are not going to be reformed, I believe. But I like that the Mane Six are the type that forgive others, even if they don't particularly deserve it.

 

Lots of us just like seeing others suffer. The ponies are better than us in that way.

 

(I forgot Gilda, but I'm too tired of editing spelling mistakes to elaborate further)

Edited December 10, 2015 by GeekySonic

[Spikey-Wikey 378]

I think a lot of you are overreacting.

 

For starters, there's no way in the world a villain like Tirek, Sombra, or even Chrysalis would be reformed.

 

Also, what were you hoping would happen to Starlight Glimmer?

[ASGARDIANBRONY 128]

give us a true evil villain! and as a bonus let him beat up starlight glimmer while twilight saves the day.

[Jangocoolguy 433]

Depends on how it's handled. Unfortunately, it's being handled worse and worse.

 

Luna spent many of her post NMM appearances trying to redeem herself, or at least showed signs of remorse. Discord's trying to reform, but still doesn't fully grasp what friendship is (nor should he. He wouldn't be Discord if he didn't troll/punk our heroines). Sunset Shimmer had a whole movie, parts of another, and some shorts trying to turn good.

 

After what, it's "Presto-changeo, we're good now!". Trixie about face in "Magic Duel" was too random. I would've bought Diamond Tiara's reformation in "Crusaders of the Lost Mark" a LOT better if it had happened sooner (a lot sooner). And Starlight...sweet Celestia, Starlight! She turns good in a song montage that should've been several episodes! Heck, even her backstory didn't carry water!

 

Call it the power of friendship if you will, and/or that forgiveness is very important to a relationship. But it shouldn't be So damn easy...   

[Clarity 3,094]

The show's title is literally called Friendship is Magic, and the lessons it preaches will no doubt always lean on the positive side—in this case, believing that anyone can be a good person regardless of the actions they've committed in the past. However, as most people have said here, the redemptions can potentially become unrealistic and overly rushed. The whole "villains reforming" concept could be really well done and still remain true to the central "everybody becoming friends" theme of the show, but unfortunately many cases of this were poorly executed. 

 

Discord is, arguably, one of the most well done redemptions done in the series, since it clearly took time and effort for him to grasp the concept of friendship. And even now, he's still kind of a jerk. It was gradual and believable, and it's clear that not everyone was fully convinced of his Heel-Face Turn originally. Same thing with Sunset—while many believe that her redemption in the first movie was rushed, the other two movies really substantiated her struggles a lot more and showed that most people didn't forgive her right away. 

 

But Starlight's redemption kind of made me cringe. Her, uh, Freudian Excuse didn't click as something that would equate to literally brainwashing ponies for her ideal utopia. It was disproportionate retribution for a single event that happened during her childhood, and in general the reveal of her "tragic backstory" was poorly presented. Furthermore, the redemption itself was also rushed—she literally changed her mind after a brief speech from Twilight, and it took—I kid you not—two seconds for her village, the people she wronged most, to forgive her. Granted, it was during a montage, but still—there could have been an episode on this that would develop the forgiving gradually. Afterwards, she was immediately accepted by pretty much everyone right at the start, unlike Discord and Sunset. Starlight Glimmer's redemption was one of my biggest gripes with the Season 5 finale and a major reason as to why I disliked it. 

 

Basically, I don't mind villains being reformed as long as it's believable, the redeemed in question actually atones for their mistakes and receives the consequences, and it's a long and gradual redemption. I certainly wouldn't object to an episode about realizing that not everyone can change for the better, though. 

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

I predict Lightning Dust will be redeemed in S6.

[Singe 2,109]

Redemption doesn't have much of an impact on the audience if the evil act is only temporary or reversed. Want a good redemption of a villain, have them do something evil that sticks and cannot be undone like the real world with no take backs.

 

I doubt the series would be willing to have a villain do something evil enough that makes the audience tear up.

[Side Bird 565]

Not all the villains have, but it does get a bit repetitive and easy to guess.

I'd really love for one villain to get reformed than cross back and stay. Kinda like how Discord did.

[Echo Narcissa 73]

No, not really. Not at all it's pretty okay with me.