spoiler Is anybody else tired of the whole "villains reforming" concept?

[cider float 2,535]

Discord's reformation was without a doubt something that was needed to do to allow him to exist in the show which was due to fan votes. But I would say Discord's reformation seemed to be the most genuine and opened up new thoughts on how friendship is like. Keep Calm and Flutter On (probably Fluttershy's last best moment) and Twilight's Kingdom showed this very well.

[best poni 1,518]

Yes, we need some more genuine villains. Too many are being reformed. 

[1234zua 19]

So why are people only targeting Starlight's reformation? So you're telling me that you won't be a little bitter too if you lost a friend that meant a lot to you and didn't have any friends growing up?

And I'm pretty sure the people expecting Starlight to "get over it" are the people who had lots of friends growing up.

 

Coming from someone who's been friendless for years, I would have turned into a jerk too if I were Starlight (minus the starting the cult thing).

Edited December 25, 2015 by 1234zua

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

I predict Lightning Dust will be redeemed in S6.

HERESY!

 

but no, seriously, I REALLY do not want LD to reform. I think she makes for a great rival of Dash's, comes off as a sociopath to me (in that she just doesn't CARE about others and lacks the ability to empathize with her actions hurting others even if she doesn't actively seek to cause harm), and I feel could be a really good recurring thorn in dash's side.

 

 

Honestly, I feel that the show could do better with some recurring "minor" antagonists, not big super threats like chrysalis, but still threatening enough to make the mane six have to respond or deal with them.

 

 

(minus the starting the cult thing).

 

no no, lets not jump to conclusions here about that not happening.

[cider float 2,535]

Many not have realized it but Cheese Sandwich was a very brief villain just not with the same level of ill intentions as other villains. His reformation wasn't mind boggling but it was legitimate enough. He kind of reminds me of entertainers that get inspired or copy other entertainers but don't admit they were.

[Carl Poppa 464]

Honestly, some of the redemptions are excellent and make sense, others do not.  Starlight had a terrible reason for being evil (trust me, losing one friend whom she probably could have just written letters to is NOT a good excuse for stripping others of what makes them who they are and trying to undo the friendships of others), and she did some extremely HORRIBLE things.  No she wasn't pure evil like Sombra or Tirek, but tbh, the finale would have worked much better if she had been because that backstory undermined her entire character, and the finale would have had more impact if Twilight had not been able to save her and instead had to banish her or something.

 

She could have been redeemed later after having served a sentence and actually having time to think about her mistakes and truly repent for them, but instead the message season 5 gives is "it's okay to hurt others because you're hurt as long as you're sorry for it later" and that's just BS.  Not to mention that it's unrealistic for everypony to be redeemable since all people aren't.  There are LOADS of people who don't WANT to be good, who don't care about others at all and who live for treating others like crap.  People who are like that REFUSE to be reformed, and it's silly for there to be so few antagonists in the series showing this like it is.

 

I understand why they reform so many villains, they are trying to teach kids (and other viewers) that it is best to try to make amends with those who have wronged you, and it is best to try.  However, some people will just continue wronging you if you continue to forgive them; some people, if left unpunished, will continue being criminals and will continue to deliberately cause others harm.  Some people do not deserve forgiveness, and, for the weak reasoning she had compared to the crime she committed, Starlight Glimmer is a pony who really doesn't deserve forgiveness.  Her redemption and backstory were handled exceptionally poorly, and that's quite sad because that finale episode was good until the backstory and redemption occurred.  The story would have benefited more from Twilight having to accept that somepony so similar to her was somepony she couldn't be friends with, from having to deal with the fact that friendship, while powerful and able to conquer many things, can't solve every problem, and from having to do something as Princess that would be difficult to do (such as banishing Starlight) for the greater good.

 

That said, again I shall reiterate that I understand why they redeem most of the baddies and have fully accepted that they will continue to do this.  The show isn't supposed to be realistic, it's fairly utopian.  I mean most of the villains aren't even trying to actively harm anyone, they're mostly tame.  But imo it would have been better to have a pony villain who was seemingly "normal" be irredeemable from a story/development perspective.

Edited December 26, 2015 by Darth Dash

[Megas 27,052]

Honestly, some of the redemptions are excellent and make sense, others do not.  Starlight had a terrible reason for being evil (trust me, losing one friend whom she probably could have just written letters to is NOT a good excuse for stripping others of what makes them who they are and trying to undo the friendships of others), and she did some extremely HORRIBLE things.  No she wasn't pure evil like Sombra or Tirek, but tbh, the finale would have worked much better if she had been because that backstory undermined her entire character, and the finale would have had more impact if Twilight had not been able to save her and instead had to banish her or something.

 

I understand why they reform so many villains, they are trying to teach kids (and other viewers) that it is best to try to make amends with those who have wronged you, and it is best to try.  

I feel most of the redemptions don't usually work because most of the time they're reforming the likes of Trixie, Discord, Starlight, Sunset, FUCKING SOMBRA. One thing all of these characters had in common is that they were all major threats to Equestria. Enslaving ponies, trying to take over the world, change history, deliver chaos. A lot of them do some terrible shit yet are instantly forgiven and we're supposed to believe it. Hell the only ones that really feel believable were Sunset and Discord, and that's only because of how they were handled AFTER their redemption(their initial turn was weak), Sunset was still hated by the other students at CHS and actually had to work to gain everyone's trust(like Prince Zuko), and one could argue that Discord isn't evil, just a douche, he's still a huge pain on the mane 6.

 

Many argue that because the show is about friendship that it's OK to try to make amends with people who did wrong, but there has to be some sort of believability to it. The reason I feel Gilda and Diamond Tiara's redemptions worked the best was because they weren't tyrants or such high stakes, global threats, they were just two bullies who became the way they did due to unfortunate circumstances, so it's a lot easier to believe. To me, redeeming someone like Starlight Glimmer or Sombra would be like redeeming Sephiroth or Ganondorf, I just don't buy

Edited December 26, 2015 by Megas75

[Sidral Mundet 1,666]

I understand why the show redeems a lot of it's villains, I just have an issue with how common it's becoming as well as repeatedly using the same reformation formula and I really dislike that they're pretty much using the same formula to reform the villains.  It's pretty much have villain do bad things, then give them a sympathetic backstory (the execution and relatablitly of which varies greatly) then have the mane heroes completely forgive them and that makes everything right as rain!   This is why I really like Discord's reformation, because it wasn't him being instantly forgiven or him needing to have a sympathetic background in order to be given friendship, nevermind that it wasn't just a one-and-done deal. 

[1234zua 19]

no no, lets not jump to conclusions here about that not happening.

No, I meant to say that I will never agree with Starlight's actions of starting a cult because that's too much, but I agree with her getting angry over losing her only true friend.

 

I don't think Starlight should have been forgiven that easily, but if Discord, someone who was just as bad as she was, can get reformed, why shouldn't Starlight?

[Wind Chaser 4,767]

The problem here isn't the idea of the villains reforming. It's mainly the execution. MLP seems to be sticking to formulas that have largely worked for a few seasons, but the cracks in it have really begun to show as it evolved over the past couple of seasons especially.

 

When these villains are reformed, it's usually done in the format of a single incident that causes the Mane 6 to spring into action, wherein the villain seems to instantly repent and fess up to his actions. Even "Keep Calm and Flutter On" did this. It's only because of the many Discord appearances that came after it that we came to like it. The stub-ended resolution of the first Equestria Girls really raised more questions that were left to be answered by Rainbow Rocks and Friendship Games.

 

In the case of Starlight Glimmer, it's too early to judge how exactly her redemption compares to others because this show prefers a sort of cliffhanger style of writing. I'd rather wait until Season 6 to judge it wholly, but what I will say is that this script sounds very much derivative of what Nightmare Moon, Discord, Trixie, and Sunset Shimmer got. Their results are mixed because it wasn't the first episode that characterized their reformations; it was their future appearances (or lack thereof in Trixie's case).

 

With Starlight Glimmer, "The Cutie Re-Mark" was a definite letdown from a character development standpoint because of how little effort it devoted to her. However, we need to see more of her to know if it ends well for her or not.

[Grepper 3,192]

I don't think the concept of villain reformation is bad in and of itself, but I would have to say it's overused in MLP.

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,671]

>Praise Princess Luna for trying to redeem herself post-NMM

>Praise Sunset Shimmer for attempting to redeem herself post-She-Demon

>Bash Starlight for redemption happening too quickly

 

If Starlight is indeed the new Sunset Shimmer then it is only fair we give Starlight Glimmer the chance to show her remorse in the upcoming Season 6. Let's not forget that her reformation happened at the END of season 5, much like how Sunset Shimmer's redemption happened quickly at the end of EqG 1.

 

The same can be said for Diamond Tiara. Let's not be hasty in our conclusions and instead wait for season 6 to build upon their redemption much in the same way it happened to SS, Princess Luna and arguably Discord.

[power strike 198]

this ! if a villian of the show is a villain then they should stay as a villain ! done and simple but i still love discord XD

[Singe 2,109]

Redemption of these villains so far is that they're "social losers" that need a helping hand from the Mane 6 to make friends.

[Stasis 39]

The problem with Starlight's redemption isn't that she was redeemed. It's that she was forgiven. Almost literally every antagonist/villain that has been redeemed has been accepted not forgiven. They accepted that they repented from their ways but no one forgave them yet.

 

Starlight's is not the same. Everyone literally forgives her on the spot. There is no attempt at her earning it whatsoever though I question why they decided to base her redemption off of Time Travel of all things. That's the major difference between Starlight and the other redeemed antagonist but you didn't see them forgiven by everybody on the spot.

 

The only way to make this redemption work is by just flat out ignoring the ending. Even then the ending will then become sort of a spoiler.

[Castle Bleck 19,163]

>Praise Princess Luna for trying to redeem herself post-NMM

>Praise Sunset Shimmer for attempting to redeem herself post-She-Demon

>Bash Starlight for redemption happening too quickly

 

If Starlight is indeed the new Sunset Shimmer then it is only fair we give Starlight Glimmer the chance to show her remorse in the upcoming Season 6. Let's not forget that her reformation happened at the END of season 5, much like how Sunset Shimmer's redemption happened quickly at the end of EqG 1.

 

The same can be said for Diamond Tiara. Let's not be hasty in our conclusions and instead wait for season 6 to build upon their redemption much in the same way it happened to SS, Princess Luna and arguably Discord.

 

The series has a history of rushed setups, but great expansions, IMO.

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

I can see both sides of the statement, I don't honestly mind the reformations that have occurred, but I hope it doesn't continue.

Edited December 27, 2015 by MLPFanatic34

[PiratePony 8,473]

Season 6 opener: King Sombra just never had anyone to talk to about his dance obsession. On top of that no one could pronounce his actual name Zambra (they just didn't understand the Spanish lisp, calling him Sombra by mistake). The Pony-Tones and King Zambra then host the First Annual Ponyville Song and Dance Off.

[PacificGreen 1,163]

As far as I know, Chrysalis, Tirek, and Sombra seem to be the only major villains who aren't reformed.

 

If you wanna count minor ones like Svengallop or the Chimera, though...

[Megas 27,052]

>Praise Princess Luna for trying to redeem herself post-NMM

>Praise Sunset Shimmer for attempting to redeem herself post-She-Demon

>Bash Starlight for redemption happening too quickly

The thing is, as someone said earlier, not only was Starlight reformed too quickly, she was also forgiven too quickly. Luna was still feared by many and CHS still hated Sunset, yet with Starlight the episode ends with a fucking montage of her dancing happily with the entirety of Ponyville and being forgiven by the town she tried to control in The Cutie Map in like 3 seconds

Edited December 27, 2015 by Megas75

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Thinking about it, it'd be nice if they had a villain who never outright reforms in one episode, but rather "Softens" in a way till they do a heel face turn. Such as them starting out as a villain that opposes the main six, then moves on to more of a rival engaging in an enemy mine situation and THEN moves on to become a friend of the mane six and a good character.

Like how piccollo didn't just turn good instantly, but was forced to ally with Goku, and slowly realized that companionship and caring about gohan was better than evil

 

 

Season 6 opener: King Sombra just never had anyone to talk to about his dance obsession. On top of that no one could pronounce his actual name Zambra (they just didn't understand the Spanish lisp, calling him Sombra by mistake). The Pony-Tones and King Zambra then host the First Annual Ponyville Song and Dance Off.

 

Sombra's already been redeemed. he just needed some horse pussyA friend who believed in him.

 

 

 

Though, I will say, I actually didn't mind his redemption in the comics, since he's actually far less evil than most of the show villains in the comics :/

 

 

I don't think the concept of villain reformation is bad in and of itself, but I would have to say it's overused in MLP.

Agreed.

[PiratePony 8,473]

Question: Are MLP comics canon?

[Sidral Mundet 1,666]

Thinking about it, it'd be nice if they had a villain who never outright reforms in one episode, but rather "Softens" in a way till they do a heel face turn. Such as them starting out as a villain that opposes the main six, then moves on to more of a rival engaging in an enemy mine situation and THEN moves on to become a friend of the mane six and a good character.

Like how piccollo didn't just turn good instantly, but was forced to ally with Goku, and slowly realized that companionship and caring about gohan was better than evil

Was going to say Vegeta if you didn't mention Piccolo.   

[Sunny Fox 5,929]

Question: Are MLP comics canon?

I would say "no", most would say "canon unless contradicted". In both cases, I would say that Sombra couldn't possibly have been redeemed, because he was blown up in the show. Perhaps they explain it in the comic in a way that avoids that contradiction, but not having read that particular comic myself, I wouldn't know. This is exactly my argument, though. I either have to accept it when someone claims something from the comics, or I have to read them myself. This could be avoided by just sticking to what is shown in the show and not bringing in the comics, which are at best peripheral materials.

 

Having said that, one could treat his redemption in the comics as an entity in itself, not necessarily claiming that the event happened within the show, and still include it in the discussion of this thread.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

I would say "no", most would say "canon unless contradicted". In both cases, I would say that Sombra couldn't possibly have been redeemed, because he was blown up in the show. Perhaps they explain it in the comic in a way that avoids that contradiction, but not having read the comic myself, I wouldn't know. This is exactly my argument, though. I either have to accept it when someone claims something from the comics, or I have to read them myself. This could be avoided by just sticking to what is shown in the show and not bringing in the comics, which are at best peripheral materials.

 

Having said that, one could treat his redemption in the comics as an entity in itself, not necessarily claiming that the event happened within the show, and still include it in the discussion of this thread.

 

 

Sombra's not a pony and is an umbrum, and was able to survive being blown to pieces due to his horn surviving and his species. His old girlfriend who's special talent is healing magic was able to piece him back to normal from his horn with her magic.