spoiler Is anybody else tired of the whole "villains reforming" concept?

[Sunny Fox 5,929]

Sombra's not a pony and is an umbrum, and was able to survive being blown to pieces due to his horn surviving and his species. His old girlfriend who's special talent is healing magic was able to piece him back to normal from his horn with her magic.

 

Thanks for clarifying, but this doesn't make me feel in the slightest like this is what we have to accept happened in the show itself, unless and until it is actually shown in the show or unmistakeably alluded to . And I don't particularly care what the comic writers or even Hasbro have to say about it. I don't mean to be blunt, but I don't care what the comics have to say about stuff in the show.

 

I'm not angry at you specifically, I just prefer to keep the comics and show separate in my discussions. 

[Megas 27,063]

Was going to say Vegeta if you didn't mention Piccolo.   

I think it can go both ways

[aoEAF2FBvC0MIo2Q 3,671]

The thing is, as someone said earlier, not only was Starlight reformed too quickly, she was also forgiven too quickly. Luna was still feared by many and CHS still hated Sunset, yet with Starlight the episode ends with a fucking montage of her dancing happily with the entirety of Ponyville and being forgiven by the town she tried to control in The Cutie Map

Guess you should go see the show premiere again. Have you forgotten that Princess Luna was accepted with open arms after she returned to Ponyville after the corrupting Nightmare was dispelled? Do you remember when she received a wreath around her neck placed on her by two ponies of Ponyville? It isn't the first time the show has backtracked. I hope I don't have to point out how the show backtracked from Magical Mystery Cure in the season 4 premiere.

 

I stand by my previous statement that only later will Starlight's redemption be fleshed out. Maybe you can just make it clear to all of us and just say you don't want to wait for season 6 to flesh her out before making up your mind about her. It'll save all of us a lot of time, don't you think?

[Megas 27,063]

Guess you should go see the show premiere again. Have you forgotten that Princess Luna was accepted with open arms after she returned to Ponyville after the corrupting Nightmare was dispelled? Do you remember when she received a wreath around her neck placed on her by two ponies of Ponyville? It isn't the first time the show has backtracked. I hope I don't have to point out how the show backtracked from Magical Mystery Cure in the season 4 premiere.

 

I stand by my previous statement that only later will Starlight's redemption be fleshed out. Maybe you can just make it clear to all of us and just say you don't want to wait for season 6 to flesh her out before making up your mind about her. It'll save all of us a lot of time, don't you think?

I haven't forgotten, but I also remembered Luna Eclipse where everyone was terrified of her when upon her return

[Envy 5,998]

In Season 5 I certainly did get tired of it. Gilda being reformed for me started it off. I just never really thought of her as a character that was proper to bring back and reform. And Starlight Glimmer's reformation was not only too sudden, but she also just wasn't a believable villain to reform in my eyes.

[Cleverclover 1,525]

Question: Are MLP comics canon?

 

Lmao, no!!! 

 

The comic staff is clearly not privy to know any changes to the show's status quo beforehand. Case in point, when Magical Mystery Cure happened, they scrambled to go back and draw alicorn wings on Twilight in all of the current and upcoming issues.

 

We can easily tell that this is still the case, given that there's an upcoming arc featuring the CMCs and the still-unreformed Diamond Tiara. Would they have produced this arc had they known that the CMC would be receiving their cutie marks in season five? I think not.  

[Varrack 1,080]

No because you can always create new villains. Redemptions are what the show's about basically - teaching the magic of friendship.

[ASGARDIANBRONY 128]

No because you can always create new villains. Redemptions are what the show's about basically - teaching the magic of friendship.

reformations are fine if done correctly.

Edited December 28, 2015 by Yellow Diamond
Removed an off-topic part of this post.

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,151]

I'm not necessarily tired of the concept; per se. As long as the redemption is handled competently to the point that I can accept it, then I have no problems with it. As such I had no issue with the likes of Sunset Shimmer, Starlight Glimmer, or Gilda being redeemed, but Sombra's redemption in the comics was a bit too sudden for my liking.

 

As for the comic, the Siege arc was rendered somewhat moot due to the premise in that arc (the release of the Umbrum) contradicts Sombra's actions in the season 5 finale (turning his slaves into soldiers, conquering Equestria without even a mention of the Umbrum themselves), so yeah.

[Stasis 39]

I'm not necessarily tired of the concept; per se. As long as the redemption is handled competently to the point that I can accept it, then I have no problems with it. As such I had no issue with the likes of Sunset Shimmer, Starlight Glimmer, or Gilda being redeemed, but Sombra's redemption in the comics was a bit too sudden for my liking.

 

As for the comic, the Siege arc was rendered somewhat moot due to the premise in that arc (the release of the Umbrum) contradicts Sombra's actions in the season 5 finale (turning his slaves into soldiers, conquering Equestria without even a mention of the Umbrum themselves), so yeah.

Actually it doesn't contradict it at all since in the arc it was stated that Sombra didn't release them due to him fearing they were good. Only reason he released them was because they hurt his waifu.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

On the note of sombra not releasing the umbrum in the finale: I know its not canon, but I have to admit I think it would have been cool to have the umbrum released in that timeline alongside the crystal citizens as soldiers, just for a 40k feel of having demon like entity's backing up low level cultist type mooks like the forces of chaos XD

[Demian 17]

"Reformed villains" is a fairly common element in literature and storytelling, so I'm not offended when I see it happen.  However, when it happens ALL the time in a series, it ends up subtracting from the the suspense when you encounter new villains because after awhile, you just end up telling yourself "oh yeah, this bad guy will end up just turning good like all the others."

I thought that Discord's reform was convincing, because there was always a component of his character that was receptive to friendship, but also because he never entirely gave up his discordant ways, either.   

[SilverStarApple 849]

Yeah, I'm tired of it simply for the fact that far too often, it comes on the back of incredibly lazy writing.

 

I think the only reformation that was at least somewhat done well was Discord's, simply because it took the mane six some time before they trusted him fully. And as it turned out, they were definitely right not to trust him right away.

 

Meanwhile, Starlight Glimmer forcefully took the mane six's cutie marks and held them captive for days just prior to attempting to destroy their friendships via time travel. And yet, after a few quick "friendship is good" speeches and nothing more, we're apparently supposed to believe that she is now 100% good and that the mane five will presumably have no trust issues with her whatsoever, unlike with Discord.

 

Sorry, but that's ridiculous.

FINALLY, Somepony said it.

 

Look, I like the idea that villains can reform. But it feels like the writers just want EVERYONE to reform, because they don't want a repeat of Sombra. So they go Nightmare Moon, and try to get people to make fanfics of them. When that gets old, make them good, the Flavour Of The Week writers will fart out a-

 

I mean, they'll create... a 1000-2000 word one-shot 'Story' about said villain reforming.

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

Lmao, no!!! 

 

The comic staff is clearly not privy to know any changes to the show's status quo beforehand. Case in point, when Magical Mystery Cure happened, they scrambled to go back and draw alicorn wings on Twilight in all of the current and upcoming issues.

 

We can easily tell that this is still the case, given that there's an upcoming arc featuring the CMCs and the still-unreformed Diamond Tiara. Would they have produced this arc had they known that the CMC would be receiving their cutie marks in season five? I think not.  

Wow really? That's interesting.

[LunatheNightmare 68]

Ok, Sombra being a good guy was in an alternate universe in the comic books. It's not canon

 

I do think reforming the villains is overdone. It mad sense with Discord and Sunset. Diamond's was rushed but i give it a pass. But Starlight and Trixie? Did they really have to be reformed? Why couldn't the Cutie Mark Dictator stay that way? And i absolutely hate Trixie, so she didn't deserve any second chances.

In Season 5 I certainly did get tired of it. Gilda being reformed for me started it off. I just never really thought of her as a character that was proper to bring back and reform. And Starlight Glimmer's reformation was not only too sudden, but she also just wasn't a believable villain to reform in my eyes.

Gilda was reformed? Since when? 

While i love Starlight Glimmer, i preferred her when she was a dictator trying to take everyone's individuality and messing up the space-time continuum. NOT a sad little pony who blamed a cutie mark for taking her childhood friend away.

Edited December 29, 2015 by LunatheNightmare

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

Who should not be redeemed?

[Meson Bolt 2,647]

In my opinion, everypony needs some sort of a foil, or some sort of nemesis who doesn't get reformed. Applejack's nemeses are the Flim Flam bros, Rarity's is that... um, that one pony... forgot her name, Rainbow's is Lightning Dust, etc. However, when it comes to Twilight, the main character, it seems that they kinda dropped the ball.

 

Twilight's nemesis is Trixie, but since she hasn't been seen for like... what, two seasons (Rainbow Rocks doesn't count), most of the fandom kinda forgot about her. I honestly expected Starlight Glimmer to get reformed eventually, but the way they did it was so rushed and cliche that I ended up getting more annoyed than "the feels". We've already seen so many characters with the "Rough past makes them mean but they get reformed" trope already... need I name a few? Moondancer, Gilda, Babs Seed, Sunset Shimmer, Diamond Tiara, and Luna are the first few that come to mind.

 

Personally I want to see Trixie make a comeback in the show, not only because I like her a lot, but because she's not one of those "rough past ponies". She's mean and egotistic just for the sake of being mean and egotistic, and she doesn't get reformed because she's too fed up with her own self-promotion to care about anypony. If she does make a comeback and they end up reforming her with a "rough past story", I'll melt down and gargle the remains of my computer.

 

As for the other reformed villains (Sunset Shimmer and Discord), I think they're fine. Discord's reformation felt more natural, and since he didn't totally give up his prankster ways, I think his is the better of the two. Sunset's reformation was horrible in the first movie, but the second and third movies payed off. But honestly, I think we're running out of antagonists since they're all becoming reformed.

[Courageous Thunder Dash 7,809]

Redemptions are amazing. It's so awesome to see how a character can realize what they did and come to senses. The only thing that turns me off from reformations is the execution. Sunset's was way too fast. After one battle that ended with the wielding of the Elements of Harmony, I thought she'd still have something in her. Then again, it's a kids' show...

[Johnny1226 14,674]

They should create a dark overlord with his own evil main six

[KikiTwilight 90]

Actually, I like that the show does that, simply by the fact that this show is supposed to send us message that everypony  is more than their past and that everyone has good in them. I mean, what's wrong in redemption and forgiveness? The title of the show is Friendship Is Magic. Shouldn't that mean that friendship is basically the cure for selfishness, insensitivity and apathy? Also, all of us have the dark side, and we all do bad things sometimes, but that doesn't make us necessarily completely bad and incapable of friendship, love and care, if we are offered it. And, the show is supposed to show utopia too. The way they handled did usually seem a bit... rushed, but it usually got better later on.

 

Since I just re-watched Crusaders of the Lost Mark   , I'll start with Diamond Tiara's redemption first. I admit that when I first watched that episode, I thought "if they befriend Diamond Tiara at the end, I'm leaving the fandom", but that's obviously not what has happened, luckily. Actually I surprisingly grew quite fond of her, since I can kind of relate. The only thing I don't like about this one is the fact that it didn't happen sooner. And I mean, a lot sooner. In season 2, or at last 3, not 5. Not because I hated Diamond Tiara as a bully (even though, I usually did) and wanted her redeemed as quickly as possible, but because that would make it much more realistic and believable. I mean, she knew CMC for quite some time, she knew what they did, how come she didn't realize earlier that they are more than just "blank flanks" and that she's more than just a bully? Was that only for that Silver Spoon never stood up to her before, so she didn't realize how important she is to her? I hope we see more of all this coming. I kind of understood her being everything because she followed her family's beliefs. It's kind of common, even in reality, unfortunately. I just like the fact that her parents accepted her being different after she finally stood up to them, and maybe supported her afterwards, even if she's not quite what they wanted or expected her to be.

 

As for Princess Luna... she's maybe the one I have strongest feelings for, simply because our perspectives, personalities and life stories are very similar. Therefore, I can relate to her, a lot. She had an older sister. That sister most likely got more respect than her, and more love. It was shown quite easily that ponies prefer day to night. It's therefore most likely that they prefer "sun-bringer" to "moon-bringer". Luna was simply jealous. That jealousy got her consumed by dark magic. It was that magic that made her do all she did. She wasn't completely herself when she did all the evil stuff. So, I don't think she was that much of redeemed, she was just brought back to herself. Even Celestia told her: "Princess Luna, it's been 1000 years since I have seen you like this." I don't think Luna stopped being jealous later, she was just controlling it, because she cared for both her subjects and  her sister. And, to be honest, she had pretty good reasons to be jealous, especially if we consider the fact that later seasons' openings show that she doesn't even have her own throne. -.- But that's another topic for discussion. And she found it hard to forgive herself, even though she wasn't completely responsible for what she did. It almost broke my heart when I saw that she created a monster to invade her dreams just to punish herself. I'm glad she finally accepted her past and got over it.

 

Discord is the next one to come to my mind. Similar to Luna, I don't think he was ever that evil too. He just loved chaos, and found the life Celestia made too boring for him. Actually, the only truly evil in his doings was the fact that he didn't care for ponies' feelings, needs or even safety. He just wanted to have fun. That's why I found it quite believable that all he neded to make him find that empathy and care in his heart is - a true friend. Some of his lines in Return of Harmony kind of showed that he did care for others a bit, especially when he said to Celestia (even though sarcastically) that he doesn't turn ponies into stones. Fluttershy was the only pony who offered him friendship at first. He didn't seem to appreciate it too much (he didn't even realize that he did himself), until he was in danger of losing that only friend he ever had. That's when he realized that Fluttershy meant a deal to him and also realized that friendship is more important than getting everything your way. So, I guess, his redemption felt rather natural and well-done. I also like the fact that he stayed true to himself later, and didn't change drastically. He still did minor chaos, and pulled small pranks on his friends, but he didn't put Equestria in danger anymore.

 

As for Sunset Shimmer... I personally disliked that they used that rainbow thing from the first episode to redeem her, because she was a lot different from Luna. Unlike Luna, she truly was evil. At least, she had true evil plans that were her own doings, she wasn't controlled by magic or anything, she was very conscious. So simple magic rainbows aren't something that can "redeem" her. But, never mind. I don't get why she threw everyone apart either. I mean, what did she even get from it? Her actions from first movie seem to me way too... random. Except for teenage army part. But I did love her redeemed. I loved that she still felt bad about her old self, and I liked that students from CHS still doubted her. I felt really bad for her in Rainbow Rocks, and I'm glad she got better in Friendship Games. She deserves it, after all she's been through. So, even though I disliked her redemption scene, I'm glad that she was redeemed.

 

I'll go with Starlight Glimmer next, since she was supposed to be "show's Sunset Shimmer", right? I don't think she was pure evil either. Her reason for hating cutie marks was honestly dumb, though. At least, her "friend" should have turned and called her blank flank or something, so that it showed that it was truly cutie marks that split them up. But, never mind. I just think that she turned "evil" for pure reasons. She really thought that ponies would be happier without cutie marks, and she was sure she did the right thing. She thought of her "utopia" (quite weird since Equestria is utopian place though), and was sure that other ponies would benefit from it too. Communist? Something like that. All she wanted was for everypony to be equal. Of course, her doings in Cutie Re-Mark were obviously deeds of jealousy, since she hated mane six's friendships, quite possibly because she never had a true friend (I can't count that asshole who left her just because she got more "popular" a friend either). Of course, what she did was bad, but we can't blame her... completely. She just wanted revenge, her own way. Offering her friendship was both good from them, and wise, since she was shown to be very powerful, maybe even more powerful than Twilight. If they had punished her, or left her, she could have done much worse things. This way they were all happy. I hope we'll see more of her in later seasons and I hope she too will have some trouble fitting in though, similar to Sunset. I was, actually, happy to see that her former "subjects" accepted her too, though. I guess they understood that she in fact meant no harm to them.

 

I don't remember much about Gilda's redemption though, so I won't go through this long. I did hate her, and I still do. She's just an asshole that you simply can't like. I guess that that's what she was meant to be. So, at least I'm glad she doesn't appear much in the show, since she lives in her own town. Enough with her. xD

 

Trixie... we don't see much of her too. I just like to think of her as someone who wants attention she doesn't deserve and make up stories to get it. Nothing truly evil. Just a fraud who's a bit jealous of Twilight, after seeing her magic. She was truly evil again when consumed by magic. When she got that alicorn amulet off, she turned back. Again, I don't see it as a true redemption. I never realized how similar she is to Luna actually, until now. She's just.. a more attention-seeking version of her, I guess.

 

Was anypony else redemeed? XD I guess I said all I had to though.

 

Oh! And, unlike most, I really want to see Lightning Dust redeemed. It's just due the fact that I don't find her that sociopathic or anything, just... ambitious. She tries hard to be as good as she wants to be, and that makes her sometimes... forget about morality. But I'm sure that she could become pretty cool if she was given the second chance. And she could make a good friend for Rainbow Dash to fly and daily friendly compete with.

[CastletonSnob 3,025]

What antagonists would you like to see come back?

[Megas 27,063]

A not reformed Lightning Dust

[CT-1138 3,180]

The whole redemption thing is wearing thin. For example, I feel like Starlight Glimmer should have rotted in a dungeon for the rest of her natural born life. 

[TePineer 82]

Yep. I'm tired of it. would have hoped to see Starlight not reform.

[Drunkfrank 1,125]

It's only happened twice with major villains in the show out of 6 (NMM doesn't count, Nightmare Moon is still evil, Luna is a completely different person)

 

So i really don't see how you can be tired of it...

Yep. I'm tired of it. would have hoped to see Starlight not reform.

Makes no sense... She didn't do anything that evil that willingly