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Knight or Samurai ?


White

Which one do you prefer ?  

68 users have voted

  1. 1. Which one do you prefer ?

    • Knight
      32
    • Samurai
      21
    • Screw them ! Vikings !
      15


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History. It's not a class to sleep through.

 

In other words, you knew what I meant. That is good enough for me.

I could probably write something like " European knights or Samurais ? " or even- as you seems to favour- " European Knights or Japanese Knights?." But no, I prefer to save a few words and use " Knights or Samurai ?" as the title instead. Is it really that hard to understand ?

Jokes aside, I said that this is a stupid question.

Edited by White
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In other words, you knew what I meant. That is good enough for me. I could probably write something like " European knights or Samurais ? " Or even- as you seems to favour- " European Knights or Japanese Knights?." But no, I prefer to save a few words, and write " Knights or Samurai " instead, is it really that hard to understand ?

Jokes aside, I said that this is a stupid question.

Then perhaps English is also a class you should stay awake through, and the question got the answer it deserved. I'm out. Peace.

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I'm going with the Samurai. That armor of theirs made them more agile the the heavy plate of knights. The katana is probably one of the highest achievements of human kind. A blade so precise & perfect, it remained in use, unchanged for 700 years. And something about fighting to the death and taking your own life rather than surrendering is very appealing. Choosing your own time to die. 

 

Knights have lost some favor to me with the over glamorization as a bunch of prince charmings, as well as becoming soldiers blinded by faith during the crusades. There's riding into battle because it's part of your codes of conduct, and then there's riding into battle because the church tells you to. It went from protecting the people from bandits and invaders, to killing those of a different faith. Heck even those that believed in the same god as you, as demonstrated by 120 consecutive years of holy wars in Europe. 

 

 

Samurai wanted you dead, it's because you pissed him off or did something morally wrong. A knight would've had a comparable purpose, till later centuries when the church overrode the codes of chivalry his ancestors swore by. 

 

But vikings have the best music.

 

 

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Knight all the way, baby! <3

 

tumblr_inline_nz6oa3Kwn01s3ztk8_540.gif

 

Then perhaps English is also a class you should stay awake through, and the question got the answer it deserved. I'm out. Peace.

 

Way to be a wad about it, Cedar.

Edited by ShadOBabe
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Samurai wanted you dead, it's because you pissed him off or did something morally wrong. A knight would've had a comparable purpose, till later centuries when the church overrode the codes of chivalry his ancestors swore by. 

To be fair samurai at points in Japanese history engaged in a bit of hypocrisy as well though I suppose the Crusades did take the cake with that. It was nearly to the degree of the knights but some samurai did engage in religious persecution, when Buddhism was first introduced to Japan it wasn't looked on favorably by various authorities at the time even though it later rivaled traditional Japanese Shintoism in terms of popularity there. One of Japans great uniters Oda Nobunaga liked Christians due to his fascination with western culture and let them practice their religion as they pleased but his successors Toyotomi Hideyoshi and Tokugawa Ieyasu on the other hand actively persecuted Christians with Tokugawa's stringent travel and trade restrictions being motivated in part due to his distrust of Christians.

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I'm gonna go with Samurai. While I like both, growing up I was always more interested in samurai.

 

Also with Rule of Cool applied, I always preferred the samurai armor

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@@Shanks,

It's funny. Shintoist samurai persecuted Buddhists. Yet when Christians came around, they were later persecuted and then Buddhists were accepted, members of society practicing both faiths, commonly with a Shinto birth ceremony and a Buddhist funeral. 

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Knights because of the chivalry.  The samurai were most famous for there use of these huge swords that were ment only for cutting in half and had no control over where it went because of its weight. 

 

That pony from Jonasdark's post was obliviously a dovakin pony.

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Both are equally cool in my opinion.

I honestly don't knw if i'd be able to choose one over the other.

 

Perhaps samurai...?

:ooh:

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No offense to knight lovers, but I see the samurai as more of an elegant and accurate fighter. Where as the knight is all about brute force and is careless. I don't mean that the knight is careless, I just didn't want to use inaccurate. :P Sure the medieval era is cool, but I'm more in love with Japan's culture at the moment. :D

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The european broad sword is good but the samurai's katana has comparable if not better cutting power yet is much lighter.

Actually as I said before, an arming sword, meant to be used in one hand, was actually not much heavier than a katana and a bastard sword was of similar weight and could be comfortably wielded in one or two hands.

 

The katana is not a bad sword, don't get me wrong, one of the best cutting weapons there is, but it's near divine superiority as a weapon to its western counterparts is an exaggeration.

 

No offense to knight lovers, but I see the samurai as more of an elegant and accurate fighter. Where as the knight is all about brute force and is careless. I don't mean that the knight is careless, I just didn't want to use inaccurate. :P Sure the medieval era is cool, but I'm more in love with Japan's culture at the moment. :D

What you "see" is not factual. The samurai were indeed trained in kenjutsu and similar martial arts.

 

. . . . But so were the knights of Europe.

 

(That's twice I've had to use this video. Let's throw in a bonus.)

 

"Brute force" eh? I know you said you did not want to be inaccurate, but to insist that knights and other western swordsman and fighters had no applied and technical fighting systems of their own is simply not true. They just were obviously different than their Japanese counterparts. None of this is meant to be an insult or confrontation, merely a gentle correction and bringing to light some information you may not have been privy to before.

 

Knights because of the chivalry. The samurai were most famous for there use of these huge swords that were ment only for cutting in half and had no control over where it went because of its weight.

 

That pony from Jonasdark's post was obliviously a dovakin pony.

Now I'm actually going to argue for the other side, it's selling them a bit short to say that kenjutsu is simply hacking away with a sharp blade. Control was preeminent to a samurai.

 

"In the midst of a single breath, where perversity cannot be held , is the Way.'

~The Hagakure

 

Many schools of kenjutsu placed enormous emphasis on form and control, expecting you to perform cuts and strikes sans weapon, then with weapon but slowly, before they let you move up to fighting speed. One thing indicative of the Japanese spirit is refinement of technique, this extended just as much to calligraphy and tea ceremony as fighting. Again, the pen and sword in equal accord, as Musashi said.

 

(Brohoofed for chivalry.)

@@Shanks,

It's funny. Shintoist samurai persecuted Buddhists. Yet when Christians came around, they were later persecuted and then Buddhists were accepted, members of society practicing both faiths, commonly with a Shinto birth ceremony and a Buddhist funeral.

A very tragic time but it does serve an important lesson for us in the modern day, no faith, western or perhaps more relevant to some, eastern, is without blood in its history.

Edited by Steel Accord
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aka nohr vs hoshido

 

I love knights; the whole cliche of them riding on horses, slashing swords and lances to slay great beasts has been one of my favorite, well, cliches for ages. I just think that there are so many directions to take knights as a whole, so many different badass weapons to apply to them, so many different personalities, and they all have different beasts to slay. With samurais, I don't feel like there is as much variety or creativity; they always use a specific type of sword, the katana, that may have some different properties but is ultimately the same, and most samurais have a copy and pasted 'honor above all things' personality. With knights, at least, there is more room for creativity. I've never heard of a samurai that deals with magic or axes or lances along with swordfighting, but I can name plenty of knights that have used magic, axes, lances, etc in conjunction with swordplay. Some don't even use swordplay at all. Knights of the Round is also one of my favorite Final Fantasy summons (Phoenix a best though), and Monty Python and the Holy Grail is my favorite movie... wow, I never realized just how much I love knights until this thread!

 

This topic feels fairly unfair to me; samurai is a pretty specific term that follows a very limited and predictable formula, while knight is a very broad term that, while having a cliche formula, has been deconstructed and innovated plenty of times. There's a single, honor-bound samurai that comes to mind, but there are so many different types of knights, such as the classic knight, magical knight, lance knight, bow knight, hell, in some stories knights don't even go on horses. Some ride dragons, pegasi (thanks for making me biased fire emblem) ... I could go on. 

 

However, i'm dealing with knights and samurai in folktales and fiction, so if this topic was about real-life knights and samurai, I apologize! I still like knights better though; I've always loved european culture and history far more than eastern culture and history. I am also a medieval nerd, so that's another point for the knights' side.

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@@Shift,

 

Well I've sort of been speaking about both from a historical view not their depictions in media, new or ancient, in fact I often try to disabuse some notions about one being "better" than the other that's rooted in anime or literature rather than history.

 

However that's not to say there isn't some merit in those depictions. After all stories are how we even remember tales of heroics. It's just that when we start talking about explicit fiction rather than archetypes with philosophies for living, it starts to feel more like "who would win in a fight, Samurai Jack or Uther the Lightbringer." As it mixes in the perceived and exaggerated additions of the writers. That being said, just from what I've seen, knights and samurai are even fictionally similar to one another more than they are different. Again, both armored warriors who try to live by a code that commands them to be more than a simple grunt with a blade. I can name several examples of both knight and samurai in fiction that have these traits in common.

 

I don't think you are the one being fair to samurai. (I'm not saying that in a mean way, I must insist! It's not an accusation that you are being belligerent I swear.) The samurai began as simple mounted archers, then as war among the states became more common, their status as professional soldiers gave them greater standing and more versatile tools and skills than was needed in peace time. Then after that, they traded their armor for a kimono and became almost a form of proto-police officers charged with keeping the civil peace when war ended.

 

That's a bastardized summation of their history but I hope you can see my point. Samurai were not "one thing" any more than knights were even if their archetype remained largely unchanged. What you may be referring to, at least implicitly, is that Japan's isolationism meant that the Samurai's change was less apparent, it was internal. Knights, though common in profession and faith, still came from different countries and cultures, so they mixed with each other more. English tales of knights were not the same as the Teutonic Knights, nor French knights. El Cid, William Marshal, Joan of Arc, and so on and so forth. Thus the variation on what a knight is, spans many cultures, whereas a Samurai is indeed, uniquely Japanese.

Edited by Steel Accord
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@@Steel Accord,

 

I never actually knew the whole historical aspect about the samurai; I know most about them from their depictions in media and fictional stories, so I screwed up their history a lot! I do see them in a far more positive light now, the history actually sounds quite interesting, the whole 'policing after the civil war idea' sounds quite intriguing in particular. I really should pick up a book that goes more in depth about it! Thanks for making me interested now, Accord. If I become a nerd about samurai, i'm blaming you.

 

I was speaking about samurai from the viewpoint I've seen them mostly depicted as; the honor-bound, fierce warrior. I'm certain that real samurai have a diverse collection of personalities, but in modern media and fiction samurai generally have very similar personalities that are based around the concept of honor. Media doesn't really portray samurai in a diverse light; though I may be wrong about this, I've only played a handful of games that have samurai, a few books that had characters based around them, and a handful of movies that had samurai in them. Most, if not all of the samurai that I have seen in those media were the honor-based, strong warrior willing to give up their lives for their cause. I have never seen a cowardly samurai, one that has a flippant or rebellious personality, or a really energetic and peppy samurai. Though I could clearly be looking in the wrong places; in fact, if you have any examples of samurai in media who are different than the honor-based one that is commonly portrayed in, well, media, I'd love it if you could share it with me!

 

Your last sentence pretty much is a summary of what I was trying to get across in relation to knights and samurai (who are separate from the media). There is a diverse lineup of different, distinct knights, and plenty of unique concepts, stories, and ideas surrounding them because of the wide lineup that spans many cultures. However, the samurai is, as you said, uniquely Japanese, so it has less variety in concepts and there are fewer distinct ideas regarding the samurai. Samurai are really cool, don't get me wrong, knights just have a far more original range of ideas surrounding them, at least from my view! I'm also heavily biased towards character cliches/concepts commonly found in medieval times or the fantasy genre, so...

 

...gosh, who knew I'd put so much effort into a debate between samurai and knight?

 

@

 

Knighturai actually a really cool idea! I'd pay to see that actually happen.

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Knighturai.  A deadly fusion of both knight and samurai.  Roaming.  Always roaming.  Sometimes stopping; but mostly roaming.  With swordtana well in hoof (whatever you've got in your head is probably right).

 

Actually, I liked that combination and originally suggested such.

 

 sig-4382947.sig-4382947.samurai_knight_b

 

Although "sword-tana" is a tad redundant. Knights did not wield "sword" they used arming sword, long swords, bastard swords, sabers, rapiers, I could go on.

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@@Shift,

 

Actually I have two examples that depict samurai as more nuanced than simple stock characters. Ruroni Kenshin, which takes place during the Meiji restoration era of Japan when the country was trying to modernize. The main character is Kenshin Himura, a samurai who fought in the war to unite the country, but he was such a ruthless and efficient warrior and killed so many that he earned the name "battousai, the manslayer." To atone for his sins, he has taken a new oath as a samurai, to protect the innocent, and never kill again. So he now carries a reverse blade sword, so that he can still fight and subdue enemies when he has to without killing them and hides his former self behind a goofy and kind personality. The series is him taking up a new residence and trying to maintain the peace he's found in this new life. The irony is that most of his enemies are people who were like him during the war but were unable to let that go and reintegrate into peacetime. They still long for the days of death and bloodshed, a world Kenshin is now happy to be rid of.

 

Another one is the Seven Samurai from legendary director Akira Kurusowa. It follows a village under constant siege by bandits, so they hire a ronin samurai to protect them. Knowing he can't fight off a small army by himself, he enlists the help of six other samurai, each with a different set of skills and a personality. Some are young and eager, others old and wizened, some carry swords that by all rights could prop up a house others are dedicated archers. Together they must not only fight, but teach the villagers to defend themselves as well. "Give a man a fish, or teach a man to fish."

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I'd say knights, for little other reason than I just prefer how much more modest they appear in comparison to Samurai's, especially in the media. And also, you know, british heritage and all that :D

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Samurai all the way! I'm such a nerd for history, but I am in love with historic Japan! Who can look at that Sengoku Jidai and not fall in love with the epicness that was to come! It's such a story of greed and distrust. I love me a good story like that.

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I do like Samurai, but also I like Knights. They are both honorable warriors, who go into battle with everything they are. Honestly, the pop culture on samurai has had no affect on my opinion over them. This being said, you added Vikings as a choice. That was probably a bad idea if wanting me to choose between knight or samurai. VIKINGS! Seriously, I love vikings. Their culture, ideals, and the fact that they have their own version of honor, are among just a few things I adore about them. They used battle axes for one, a weapon of which I totally back. XD Second Vikings are just bearded badasses who sail in on the waves of a raging storm, lay siege to the inhabitants, take what they want, then leave. Knights and Samurai are always subject to politics in battle. Vikings are happy if they simply die in battle That is a good death to them. And that is just bad ass!

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