Who exactly is Bernie Sanders?

[SilverStarApple 849]

Who exactly is Bernie Sanders? I've heard a lot of talk about how cool he is or isn't, and why he is or isn't better/worse than X Politician due to the usual American personality politics, but... seriously, who is he, and what are his goals?

 

 

Pic related. It's the pic that made me give up and wonder who he is.

Edited February 17, 2016 by SilverStarApple

[Anneal 2,194]

He's evidently related to the Illuminati.

 

[Shift 4,269]

Bernie Sanders is a politician who is running for president of the United States, and I personally really like him. He's very popular with the younger age, mostly because of his views on many things; he pushes very hard to support the middle class and generally does not like how the government is treating the upper class, he's very into the economic end of the United States and how to fix things regarding the economy, he wants to push down student debt, raise the minimum wage, getting rid of tuition by taxing the rich, etc. According to wikipedia he also is a strong supporter of LGBT rights (pardon if i'm getting this wrong, but he marched with MLK), stopping global warming, reducing the amount of people in prison via criminal justice reform, cracking down on police brutality, and also he is in favor of welcoming Syrian refugees. Note that I am getting most specific info from wikipedia. One of the main, most major things he believes in though is to improve the middle class and cut down on the higher class by improving the economy.

 

Although he is easily very likable, plenty don't like him because he's very outspoken and emotional about his views, and also can be very stubborn when trying to change them. He also has more than a few controversial viewpoints which can make people not like him; namely his stance on the economy, middle class and his opinion on police brutality.

 

Basically he's a very popular democratic candidate who I personally really like; he's certainly miles better than Hillary and Trump in my opinion. The current status of the presidential debate is Hillary vs Trump vs Sanders tbh

[Rainbow Diamonds 282]

He's one of the Democrat nominees running for president. (Hillary Clinton is the other.) 

 

Do you wish doctor visits wouldn't be so expensive? Do you think college shouldn't cost a lot of money? Do you believe that everyone, regardless of race, gender, sexual orientation, religion, creed, etc. should have equal rights? Do you believe that hard work doesn't necessarily mean more money? (If you believe the latter, you're not a Republican.) Then you should vote for Bernie Sanders. 

 

Then there's the other stuff as to why people hate him. He's a Democratic Socialist, he wants to raise taxes, and he's old. (The last one is actually a common reason people hate him.) 

 

Taxes aren't bad unless they're used incorrectly. He would raise the taxes to pay for the stuff he promised, but would you rather pay a little bit of extra tax or a huge hospital bill? 

 

A democratic socialist believes that the economy and society should be controlled by everyone and not just those with the money or in power. Him wanting to take the money out of politics is a democratic socialist idea. 

 

His age shouldn't be the basis to someone's opinion at all. 

[SilyGeny 369]

A politician.

 

 

woop bam damn thank you man.

No but really that's all I know about him. I'm just not following the American politics x)

[Shanks 10,811]

Bernie Sanders is a senator from Vermont that is currently running for the Democratic party nomination for president of the US. Bernie Sanders is a self described democratic-socialist which for those who aren't familiar is the system many countries in Europe including the Nordic states like Sweden, Norway ect... have. These democratic socialist countries have large social safety nets with programs such as universal single payer health care, paid family leave, and have strict minimum wage and labor laws. Bernie Sanders has become a popular especially among the young due to being seen as an anti establishment candidate who will take on the special interests as well as voting against unpopular policies such as the Iraq war and the Patriot Act.

 

As a candidate Bernie Sanders supports raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour, tuition free college to be paid by a wall street "speculation" tax and universal single payer health care along with a few other things. Sanders admits what most politicians will not, that we have to raise taxes to pay for these policies, yet insists that most of the burden will go the rich. Many on the right as well as some libertarians have criticized what they see as unrealistic policies which will bankrupt America.

[SilverStarApple 849]

Bernie Sanders is a senator from Vermont that is currently running for the Democratic party nomination for president of the US. Bernie Sanders is a self described democratic-socialist which for those who aren't familiar is the system many countries in Europe including the Nordic states like Sweden, Norway ect... have. These democratic socialist countries have large social safety nets with programs such as universal single payer health care, paid family leave, and have strict minimum wage and labor laws. Bernie Sanders has become a popular especially among the young due to being seen as an anti establishment candidate who will take on the special interests as well as voting against unpopular policies such as the Iraq war and the Patriot Act.

 

As a candidate Bernie Sanders supports raising the minimum wage to $15 an hour, tuition free college to be paid by a wall street "speculation" tax and universal single payer health care along with a few other things. Sanders admits what most politicians will not, that we have to raise taxes to pay for these policies, yet insists that most of the burden will go the rich. Many on the right as well as some libertarians have criticized what they see as unrealistic policies which will bankrupt America.

Um...

 

Just, uh...

 

Just so you know...

 

Raising the minimum wage is pretty much the number one crappy dumb thing to do. I know it sounds good on paper, but corrupt businesses and the system ensure that when the minimum wage goes up and people have more money in their pocket, the price of food also goes up, meaning the poor people have bigger and cooler numbers they can exchange for the same products. On paper, it's an awesome help-the-poor thing, but in reality, it will only work if something's done at the same time to ensure the price of food WON'T go up.

 

Still, uh... does he have other ideas, ones that are actually good?

 

Also, the kid that said Illuminati? Fire that uneducated pile of dog residue (Undertale reference, it's dust) because he's clearly bearing The Rinnegan.

[Castle Bleck 19,163]

All that's missing is a Vincent-Price-like laugh.

 

Seriously, though, from what I can gather, he's viewed as an extremist, but certainly a better man than Hillary, at least.

[Shanks 10,811]

Raising the minimum wage is pretty much the number one crappy dumb thing to do.

I know and agree with all of that, but I simply answered the question posed by the OP as to who Bernie Sanders is and left my personal opinion of him out of it. I like him as a person but think his policies are extremely unrealistic and for the record actually support Rand Paul and will probably either write in Rand or vote for the libertarian nominee.

[Anneal 2,194]

Also, the kid that said Illuminati? Fire that uneducated pile of dog residue (Undertale reference, it's dust) because he's clearly bearing The Rinnegan.

 

Hey, someone had to do it. :v

 

And yes, about the minimum wage, the mistake that some voters make is how the candidate is going to benefit themselves; it has to be much more than that. Can't just think about yourself when you vote, also got to think about how it would influence others and the nation as a whole.

 

And please just vote him over Hillary. He's far better and less shadier.

[captainborgue 343]

Um...

 

Just, uh...

 

Just so you know...

 

Raising the minimum wage is pretty much the number one crappy dumb thing to do. I know it sounds good on paper, but corrupt businesses and the system ensure that when the minimum wage goes up and people have more money in their pocket, the price of food also goes up, meaning the poor people have bigger and cooler numbers they can exchange for the same products. On paper, it's an awesome help-the-poor thing, but in reality, it will only work if something's done at the same time to ensure the price of food WON'T go up.

 

Still, uh... does he have other ideas, ones that are actually good?

 

Also, the kid that said Illuminati? Fire that uneducated pile of dog residue (Undertale reference, it's dust) because he's clearly bearing The Rinnegan.

 

 

Except that, historically, raising the minimum wage also dramatically boosts productivity and economic growth. See, in a consumer driven economy, you need people to buy stuff. If nobody can afford to buy stuff, the economy stagnates. Yes, the cost of stuff goes up too- but it does that anyway, whether you raise wages or not.

 

Truman almost doubled the minimum wage in the 50's- from 40 cents to 75 cents an hour- result? Economic growth on a scale that hasn't been matched since. Washington state raised the minimum wage after Seattle experimented and raised it first- and yet, none of the doom and gloom has actually happened. Unemployment is DOWN because when people have more money, they buy more stuff, which means the companies making the stuff and selling the stuff have to make MORE stuff which means they need more people to make it. The places selling the stuff sell more stuff, so they need a bigger staff to handle it.

 

The issue here is conflating wage increases with printing money. The former relies on labor receiving a larger share of a firm's profits, while the latter is exactly what it sounds- printing more money for whatever reason. See, the more money exists in a system, the less it is worth (there's a lot of big complicated math here that I'm not sure is all that relevant, so I'll just stick to the key points). When the minimum wage as a concept was developed, the top tier tax rates were much, much higher (around 90% or so under Eisenhower at its peak). The idea being that if a company hoarded its profits, it would have to pay out the freaking nose- whereas if those profits were diverted into research or labor or literally ANYTHING else, the total cost of operation would actually be lower. This model allows for raising wages, as it isn't adding money to the system- it's redirecting existing money.

 

Adding money, printing money, is economically terrible and leads to rampant inflation, like Zimbabwe experienced when Mugabe announced he was going to triple the pay of all the civil servants, but did nothing to offset that cost and just... printed big stacks of money to give them. Without any means of increasing revenues that could then be passed along to civil servants, they simply.... printed out more and more and more, which while technically paying said civil servants more, it also diluted the value of the currency to just... ridiculous levels. Prices would literally double once a day or so, and ATM machines were crashing because their software couldn't handle the number of zeroes on the amounts people tried to withdraw. See, THAT is stupid.

 

But that's not what raising the minimum wage would do. See, companies have to pay you in actual currency, not "Workplace Fun Bucks" (though they used to, actually. Most miners back in the day were paid in company scrip instead of, you know, money), and the company paying you is highly unlikely to be able to simply conjure up federal currency out of thin air. so since they can't just wish it into existence, it has to come FROM somewhere- in this case, the operating margins would adjust to compensate for the higher cost of labor as an operating cost. Which means less profits for the billionaires in the short term (though, again, the historical precedent is indisputable, people buy more when they have more disposable income which results in long term growth).

 

Now, in terms of worker productivity, Americans are working their ASSES off. Had wages been pegged to production levels, we'd be sitting at about 22$ an hour today, not $7.25 (or just over 2$ if your the poor bastard working for tips). the Eurozone is a good example- high wages, stable growth (aside from the southern Euro zone countries, who have been cooking their books for over a decade anyway), higher quality of life, affordable health care and higher education, paid family leave, SUBSTANTIALLY less crime, and taken as a whole the EU economy dwarfs the U.S. in terms of total output- but the U.S. has looser laws, less social safety nets, less restrictions on operations (just ask the people in Flint how awesome it is when there's no burdensome regulations holding you back), and in general a much easier climate for enormous businesses to operate.

 

See, the thing is, it doesn't MATTER how cheap something is if nobody can effing afford to buy it. Hey, you know where is a good example of that? Europe again, this time in Greece and the Balkan countries. Rent costs an average of 200$ a month in places like Belgrade and Zagreb- major urban areas, historical cornerstones, etc., etc. five pounds of potatoes costs maybe a quarter. Hot damn, everything is so cheap... but then, their wages are a little less than 200$ a month... see the problem?

 

 

 

to put it in a nutshell: Americans actually pay about the same taxes as most Europeans (a little less, but not a lot), but get nowhere NEAR the benefits, mostly because we spend an absolutely INSANE amount of money on military spending (more so than the next seven largest countries put together- and China is one of them. And so is Russia.), and about as insane an amount of money on corporate subsidies. Bernie Sanders' entire platform is about shifting that balance the other way- increased taxes, and using the funds raised for programs that benefit everyone instead of just benefiting military contractors and already rich people. It works well in most of Europe, it worked well in the U.S. in the past, and the tax increases are much, MUCH less than the extra we all pay for health care and education anyway.

[SilverStarApple 849]

Except that, historically, raising the minimum wage also dramatically boosts productivity and economic growth. See, in a consumer driven economy, you need people to buy stuff. If nobody can afford to buy stuff, the economy stagnates. Yes, the cost of stuff goes up too- but it does that anyway, whether you raise wages or not.

 

Truman almost doubled the minimum wage in the 50's- from 40 cents to 75 cents an hour- result? Economic growth on a scale that hasn't been matched since. Washington state raised the minimum wage after Seattle experimented and raised it first- and yet, none of the doom and gloom has actually happened. Unemployment is DOWN because when people have more money, they buy more stuff, which means the companies making the stuff and selling the stuff have to make MORE stuff which means they need more people to make it. The places selling the stuff sell more stuff, so they need a bigger staff to handle it.

 

The issue here is conflating wage increases with printing money. The former relies on labor receiving a larger share of a firm's profits, while the latter is exactly what it sounds- printing more money for whatever reason. See, the more money exists in a system, the less it is worth (there's a lot of big complicated math here that I'm not sure is all that relevant, so I'll just stick to the key points). When the minimum wage as a concept was developed, the top tier tax rates were much, much higher (around 90% or so under Eisenhower at its peak). The idea being that if a company hoarded its profits, it would have to pay out the freaking nose- whereas if those profits were diverted into research or labor or literally ANYTHING else, the total cost of operation would actually be lower. This model allows for raising wages, as it isn't adding money to the system- it's redirecting existing money.

 

Adding money, printing money, is economically terrible and leads to rampant inflation, like Zimbabwe experienced when Mugabe announced he was going to triple the pay of all the civil servants, but did nothing to offset that cost and just... printed big stacks of money to give them. Without any means of increasing revenues that could then be passed along to civil servants, they simply.... printed out more and more and more, which while technically paying said civil servants more, it also diluted the value of the currency to just... ridiculous levels. Prices would literally double once a day or so, and ATM machines were crashing because their software couldn't handle the number of zeroes on the amounts people tried to withdraw. See, THAT is stupid.

 

But that's not what raising the minimum wage would do. See, companies have to pay you in actual currency, not "Workplace Fun Bucks" (though they used to, actually. Most miners back in the day were paid in company scrip instead of, you know, money), and the company paying you is highly unlikely to be able to simply conjure up federal currency out of thin air. so since they can't just wish it into existence, it has to come FROM somewhere- in this case, the operating margins would adjust to compensate for the higher cost of labor as an operating cost. Which means less profits for the billionaires in the short term (though, again, the historical precedent is indisputable, people buy more when they have more disposable income which results in long term growth).

 

Now, in terms of worker productivity, Americans are working their ASSES off. Had wages been pegged to production levels, we'd be sitting at about 22$ an hour today, not $7.25 (or just over 2$ if your the poor bastard working for tips). the Eurozone is a good example- high wages, stable growth (aside from the southern Euro zone countries, who have been cooking their books for over a decade anyway), higher quality of life, affordable health care and higher education, paid family leave, SUBSTANTIALLY less crime, and taken as a whole the EU economy dwarfs the U.S. in terms of total output- but the U.S. has looser laws, less social safety nets, less restrictions on operations (just ask the people in Flint how awesome it is when there's no burdensome regulations holding you back), and in general a much easier climate for enormous businesses to operate.

 

See, the thing is, it doesn't MATTER how cheap something is if nobody can effing afford to buy it. Hey, you know where is a good example of that? Europe again, this time in Greece and the Balkan countries. Rent costs an average of 200$ a month in places like Belgrade and Zagreb- major urban areas, historical cornerstones, etc., etc. five pounds of potatoes costs maybe a quarter. Hot damn, everything is so cheap... but then, their wages are a little less than 200$ a month... see the problem?

 

 

 

to put it in a nutshell: Americans actually pay about the same taxes as most Europeans (a little less, but not a lot), but get nowhere NEAR the benefits, mostly because we spend an absolutely INSANE amount of money on military spending (more so than the next seven largest countries put together- and China is one of them. And so is Russia.), and about as insane an amount of money on corporate subsidies. Bernie Sanders' entire platform is about shifting that balance the other way- increased taxes, and using the funds raised for programs that benefit everyone instead of just benefiting military contractors and already rich people. It works well in most of Europe, it worked well in the U.S. in the past, and the tax increases are much, MUCH less than the extra we all pay for health care and education anyway.

Oh.

 

Thanks, this helped a lot.

 

Whose fault is it that I used to believe this "Raising minimum wage=printing money like an idiot to try and look good" thing?

 

 

Hey, someone had to do it. :v

 

And yes, about the minimum wage, the mistake that some voters make is how the candidate is going to benefit themselves; it has to be much more than that. Can't just think about yourself when you vote, also got to think about how it would influence others and the nation as a whole.

 

And please just vote him over Hillary. He's far better and less shadier.

Didn't Hillary make a private email server? Didn't she delete everything suspect from it when caught and give it to the cops, saying "That's all there is"... And when they asked for more, she released a little more and said "That's all there is"? And when questioned on WHY she had an untraceable ultra-suspicious private email server, she said it was "More convenient" and the technologically illiterate American sheeple ate it up, because they don't know how much effort goes into writing a story, let alone making an email server?

[captainborgue 343]

Oh.

 

Thanks, this helped a lot.

 

Whose fault is it that I used to believe this "Raising minimum wage=printing money like an idiot to try and look good" thing?

Hey, unless you really study economics, it doesn't make much intuitive sense. Hell, even if you DO study it, it makes almost no sense.

 

 

Didn't Hillary make a private email server? Didn't she delete everything suspect from it when caught and give it to the cops, saying "That's all there is"... And when they asked for more, she released a little more and said "That's all there is"? And when questioned on WHY she had an untraceable ultra-suspicious private email server, she said it was "More convenient" and the technologically illiterate American sheeple ate it up, because they don't know how much effort goes into writing a story, let alone making an email server?

Almost, but not quite. The issue was that she was getting private emails that may have potentially contained information pertaining to her position as Secretary of State. Think of it like, you get an email from a coworker to your gmail account and not your work email, then your work buddies get all butt-hurt when you delete stuff off of your gmail account because they are paranoid lunatics who think you were trying to hide BIG TOP SECRET WORK STUFF OMG by emailing it to yourself. It's annoying and stupid, but not the end of the world.

 

Oh, and every Republican secretary of state since Powell has had a private email server, too. funny how it's only Clinton's that people are furious about.

 

I don't like Clinton. She's too buddy-buddy with the billionaire banks that tanked the whole damn planet's economy in 2008 (and of which, the only people to see jail time were the guys that robbed other rich people like Madoff). But she's not some ultra-clever scheming devil lady. She used her own email, MAYBE got some DoS stuff sent to it, and MAYBE POSSIBLY deleted stuff from her own email that could have potentially had DoS stuff in it. That's it.

 

So imagine if you get work email stuff in your gmail account, and then your boss throws a purple-faced screaming fit when you empty your spam folder. THAT is the "scandal" Republicans have been harping on about with the emails. It's stupid and pointless and a waste of time, and there are SO MANY OTHER THINGS they could legitimately criticize her for: like how she was campaigning hard for single-payer healthcare when Bill was president, changed her tune to be ADAMANTLY against it until Bernie won in NH, and is now changing her tune AGAIN. Or how she talks tough about regulating Wall Street speculation and her biggest donors are investment firms on- OF COURSE- Wall Street. Or how she criticizes opponents for commenting about her being a woman affecting her campaign, but then turns around and tries to gain votes by being all LOOK I'M A WOMAN, VOTE FOR ME FOR FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT. I mean, there are actual, legitimate, REAL reasons to dislike the woman, focusing on her emails is so unbelievably stupid.

[SilverStarApple 849]

Hey, unless you really study economics, it doesn't make much intuitive sense. Hell, even if you DO study it, it makes almost no sense.

 

 

Almost, but not quite. The issue was that she was getting private emails that may have potentially contained information pertaining to her position as Secretary of State. Think of it like, you get an email from a coworker to your gmail account and not your work email, then your work buddies get all butt-hurt when you delete stuff off of your gmail account because they are paranoid lunatics who think you were trying to hide BIG TOP SECRET WORK STUFF OMG by emailing it to yourself. It's annoying and stupid, but not the end of the world.

 

Oh, and every Republican secretary of state since Powell has had a private email server, too. funny how it's only Clinton's that people are furious about.

 

I don't like Clinton. She's too buddy-buddy with the billionaire banks that tanked the whole damn planet's economy in 2008 (and of which, the only people to see jail time were the guys that robbed other rich people like Madoff). But she's not some ultra-clever scheming devil lady. She used her own email, MAYBE got some DoS stuff sent to it, and MAYBE POSSIBLY deleted stuff from her own email that could have potentially had DoS stuff in it. That's it.

 

So imagine if you get work email stuff in your gmail account, and then your boss throws a purple-faced screaming fit when you empty your spam folder. THAT is the "scandal" Republicans have been harping on about with the emails. It's stupid and pointless and a waste of time, and there are SO MANY OTHER THINGS they could legitimately criticize her for: like how she was campaigning hard for single-payer healthcare when Bill was president, changed her tune to be ADAMANTLY against it until Bernie won in NH, and is now changing her tune AGAIN. Or how she talks tough about regulating Wall Street speculation and her biggest donors are investment firms on- OF COURSE- Wall Street. Or how she criticizes opponents for commenting about her being a woman affecting her campaign, but then turns around and tries to gain votes by being all LOOK I'M A WOMAN, VOTE FOR ME FOR FIRST WOMAN PRESIDENT. I mean, there are actual, legitimate, REAL reasons to dislike the woman, focusing on her emails is so unbelievably stupid.

They WHAT?!

 

I only "Cared" about Clinton's because Clinton's is the first one I've actually heard about.

 

That's a practice that needs to be ended. The .Gov emails are supposed to be used BECAUSE of how much oversight they have! ...Or so I've been told, tell me if I'm wrong.

 

Also, yeah, I hate people like that. People that change their tune to suit the mood, as fake as an actor. People that say they should get something because of what they are, rather than who they are or what they can do.

 

 

((Memo 58, topic: Humans) It appears that humans of the US variety vote for presidents instead of kings.)

 

((Memo 58 P2, topic: Humans) King Asgore would be surely interested in this new development.)

If you keep going, the way you are now... you'd be a lot more entertaining on a roleplaying forum. This is a serious discussion about politics. Come on, use your roleplaying character to do something entertaining, try to get away with saying something only your character would say, because it's your character. Filter your view of politics through the character's unique lens. It doesn't get more unique than a timesploded scientist ghost and Sans's dad.

[Mr F 1,520]

Of what I know he is a presidential candidate that want to make the US more democratic.

For example he is not accepting money from big corporations. (Which a lot of cases would be punishable in western europe)

He is also beloved and hated by many due to his opposition to privately owned prisons and his view on the current tax system.

[Anneal 2,194]

Didn't Hillary make a private email server? Didn't she delete everything suspect from it when caught and give it to the cops, saying "That's all there is"... And when they asked for more, she released a little more and said "That's all there is"? And when questioned on WHY she had an untraceable ultra-suspicious private email server, she said it was "More convenient" and the technologically illiterate American sheeple ate it up, because they don't know how much effort goes into writing a story, let alone making an email server?

 

Pretty much. She's involved in some Watergate-like things right there.

[SilverStarApple 849]

Pretty much. She's involved in some Watergate-like things right there.

Yeah, why aren't people demanding justice? And why do haters of One and Two love and support Three and refuse to admit he/she might have flaws? Or put their hands up their own butts and say "One and two suck. Three just sucks less" instead of doing something about it?

[EpicEnergy 22,064]

He actually was a candidate in the 2020 election, and supports a form of socialism.

[TBD 17,228]

A socialist boomer?  Who happen to lost twice.

and also a memelord

*vote!

[DubWolf 16,574]

Lots of things.

Unlike most politicians in power, not corrupt.

We’ve got socialism now, believe it or not; corporate socialism. Privatize the profits, socialize the losses.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,236]

He was the only person running who actually gave a damn about the people and wanted to actually solve at least some of the countless problems the US has. Now that he didn't get the nomination, we're screwed. 

[TheRockARooster 47,232]

Some whose first name is Bernie and last name is Sanders.

[Lucky Bolt 34,914]

He's just another corrupt politician. I'm happy he dropped out, honestly though Biden isn't any better. 

[Splashee 28,537]

I have heard he was very old and dropped out of the race.

[Here No Longer 5,270]

12 hours ago, Kyoshi said:

He was the only person running who actually gave a damn about the people and wanted to actually solve at least some of the countless problems the US has. Now that he didn't get the nomination, we're screwed. 

Because he caved. He may be a good politician the right loves to lie about nonstop (because apparently REFUSING donations from rich people is corrupt when that's the OPPOSITE of corrupt and anything left of center is clearly fringe left commie $#!+ to REEEEEE about), but he makes a lame revolutionary.

 

If we had somebody like him who actually had the persistence to pull it off, it would be quite nice. Less right-wing establishment BS.

 

@Super Splashee Trump is almost as old as he is and Biden is older. F*** Biden seems like he has actual dementia.

Edited May 16, 2020 by Dustlicious