Who is the strongest pony in magic?

[ManaMinori 4,143]

I imagine there is some similarity between moving the sun, and moving the moon, so there's no reason why the magic that enables Celestia to move the sun, wouldn't be applicable to the moon as well (at least to a certain extent), and vice-versa for Luna.

 

It took six unicorns to do the same, and it permanently depleted those unicorns magic (except for Starswirl), probably because it was outside of their individual expertise and therefore harder to maintain (see my previous example regarding Rarity and Twilight).  And Discord is not a pony.  Being the spirit of chaos the fact he isn't bound by the same rules is axiomatic.

true. Its implied that Sunbutt raised the sun and moon, in Luna's absense, and vice versa, in the comics, in the Reflection arc.

[Fractured 2,683]

I imagine there is some similarity between moving the sun, and moving the moon, so there's no reason why the magic that enables Celestia to move the sun, wouldn't be applicable to the moon as well (at least to a certain extent), and vice-versa for Luna.

 

It took six unicorns to do the same, and it permanently depleted those unicorns magic (except for Starswirl), probably because it was outside of their individual expertise and therefore harder to maintain (see my previous example regarding Rarity and Twilight).  And Discord is not a pony.  Being the spirit of chaos the fact he isn't bound by the same rules is axiomatic.

I think the fact that random unicorns (and Starswirl) were able to replicate the same feat means that it's not just linked to cutie mark magic. Especially when you consider he himself couldn't do so alone (it aged him just from moving the moon); that implies they lacked the power, not the skill.

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

I think the fact that random unicorns (and Starswirl) were able to replicate the same feat means that it's not just linked to cutie mark magic. Especially when you consider he himself couldn't do so alone (it aged him just from moving the moon); that implies they lacked the power, not the skill.

 

You missed my point a bit, I didn't say that ponies can't do magic that isn't tied to their talent, just that such magic is a lot harder for them.  I already mentioned the example where Rarity was able to do something very easily that took Twilight a great deal of effort, and clearly left her exhausted.

 

The same goes for the unicorns that moved the sun and moon, they could still do it, but the effort was so much that it left them permanently spent.

 

My point is that where a specific task is linked to their talent, the magic to do that task comes much easier to them, without any massive expense of effort.

[Jeric 46,834]

Just want to say that's not quite accurate.

 

One could argue that based on the AKR book (JotTS), their cutie marks are in fact linked. In fact, neither Luna and Tia had cutie marks until they moved the heavenly bodies. Though this is not seen in the show and only referenced in the Journal of the Two Sisters (I refer you to my opening sentence), it does make the case that they are linked. Of course, the absence of a cutie mark does not exclude the ability to do something, nor does the inclusion of a themed talent mean you are the exclusive pony who can perform said task, so it stands to reason that other powerful entities would be able to move the sun and moon as well. We see this sort of exception in a multitude of fantasy literature examples - notably in comic books in general. How often is Thor's hammer wielded or moved by others who are not 'technically' worthy, but just powerful enough to overpower the magic on the uru hammer. 

[TBlaze 158]

The first thing everyone should realize first, is that we basically talk about headcanons, because the show gives us really vague information about ponies' actual power. That being said, I would choose 5 ponies to compete in that matter: Celestia, Luna, Starlight, Twilight and Sunset.

 

If we believe (and I believe) that Royal Sisters are some kind of demigoddesses, that puts them in this squad. And even being Luna fan, I have to notice that Celestia is slightly more powerful in terms of common magic, and not dream thingie. I like to put it like this:

 

Celestia = 100%

Luna = 90%

Nightmare Moon = 110%

 

Twilight got her cutie mark for magic, represents an Element of Magic, and spends most of her life studying magic. Additionally, she became an alicorn greatly enhancing her skills. Everyone knows that the book horse is magic horse, so that's why I put her here.

 

Compared to her we have Starlight, who brings a lot of chaos into this organized mix. We could say she's  more powerful than Twilight because book horse could not stop her, but because we're talking about personal interpretations mostly (as I mentioned), I will say she's not more powerful. When she used Starswirl's spell to time travel, she merely worked on a ready base which was given by Starswirl and then by Twilight. And, Twilight couldn't stop her because it's harder than most people think to stop someone if he has already started and is determined not to stop. Twilight probably could stop Starlight only using damaging magic to defeat her, and that's not what we want to show. But, I still value Starlight as really slightly less powerful or even Twilight's equal.

 

Why is Sunset here oh my god, she's horrible and blah blah. Actually, we do know that Sunset was Celestia's personal student just as Twilight, and that means a lot. We do know she has huuge magic potential and was also well trained. She didn't do things like Starlight, but this argument is mostly invalid because these deeds are not defining somepony's magic power, but what opportunities he had, and simply what was his individual story. I do think that Sunset probably has more power than Twilight, but she never actually got to know the power of friendship and harmony, basically drowning in her arrogance. That does not make her raw magic potential any lesser though.

 

So, my (highly personal) view on this matter is:

 

I don't really know, but I do know that all 5 ponies I mentioned are on the god tier list. If I had to, I'd go with:

 

1.Celestia (100%)

2. Actually Sunset Shimmer (95%)

3. Twilight and Luna with a draw (90%)

4 Starlight (85% or 90%, not sure)

 

 

 

 

Trixie's just a simple trickster, not a true mage you fanboy.

Edited May 5, 2016 by TBlaze

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

I'd probably rank them;

 

1. Starlight

2. Twilight

3. Luna (unfettered)

4. Celestia

5. Luna (restrained)

 

Note though, 1 and 2 are very close, almost interchangeable.  And the royal sisters, could go above either of them, but are placed lower based only what we have actually seen, I am inclined to place them there due to lack of evidence.

[Goat-kun 2,498]

My horse is much stronger than yours!

My horse can force right through the door!

With a feeling so pure!

She’s got you posting stuff some more!

Fool, in denial, we’re the cruel revelators smoking cigaro, cigaro, cigaro … Oh it goes on. Let’s not go there just yet.

 

Alicorns are stronger than unicorns. They have a much higher ceiling when it comes to brute magic and can survive severe arcane stress that breaks unicorns. Now I won’t copy paste the Two Sisters cause that’s getting old. I’ll just say: bring me the numbers of your waifu’s Mana Pool, Forced Magical Volume in 1s, Peak Magic Flow, and their stats on spell knowledge, magical skill, arcane experience, and willpower. Come on then! Let’s do this like real neckbeards!!!

 

Fanfoal#1: But my waifu was very stronk once in that episode!

Yes, and AJ beat a chimaera Tom & Jerry style, what’s your point?

When you look at it this way, there are only two legit competitors.

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

 

 

When you look at it this way, there are only two legit competitors.

 

I agree that this should be the case, I am just largely underwhelmed (and occasionally disappointed) by what I have seen in the cartoon regarding the might of the sisters, or rather, the lack thereof.

 

I want to see Celestia and Luna in full unbridled rage kicking some serious flank when nopony else can.  But alas, it seems my desire is to remain forever unfulfilled.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Starswirl - According to Twilight, he created over 200 spells, including a time traveling spell, and managed to defeat and banish the Sirens, all without ever even knowing anything about friendship.  With all of his experience, he is probably the most powerful pony (not including the magic of friendship).

 

Well, based on Comic canon, he's actually not that good of a mage, he just figured out how to make a portal to other dimensions and then Swapped magic spells with other realities until he got all the spells he's got. Like the villains of Bio shock infinite stole their technology from alternate realities, Starswirl got his spells from other realities and didn't discover the majority of spells on his own.

Plus, he actually was utterly useless against the sirens and kind of just pushed a Mirror portal near them (the one big magical breakthrough he ever did) near them and sucked them in it.

 

 

Granted, this is all IDW comic canon though, so I can see why alot of people would like to ignore that (honestly, comic Starswirl and Show starswirl might as well be two different beings)

[Luna 831 465]

I'd probably rank them;

 

1. Starlight

2. Twilight

3. Luna (unfettered)

4. Celestia

5. Luna (restrained)

 

Note though, 1 and 2 are very close, almost interchangeable. And the royal sisters, could go above either of them, but are placed lower based only what we have actually seen, I am inclined to place them there due to lack of evidence.

what do you mean by luna unfetted???

[TBlaze 158]

Alicorns are stronger than unicorns. They have a much higher ceiling when it comes to brute magic and can survive severe arcane stress that breaks unicorns. Now I won’t copy paste the Two Sisters cause that’s getting old. I’ll just say: bring me the numbers of your waifu’s Mana Pool, Forced Magical Volume in 1s, Peak Magic Flow, and their stats on spell knowledge, magical skill, arcane experience, and willpower. Come on then! Let’s do this like real neckbeards!!!

 

Considering that this show's not about pony arena fights, you are too confident and eager to fight. While I do agree that alicorns are generally much more powerful than unicorns, I say that extraordinary unicorns can be born with enormous raw magic potential and thus are potential alicorndom ascendants with proper training. And just as I said in my post, this is my personal opinion (and I'm not willing to change it), that is your personal opinion (I guess you neither) and the best we can do is to dream about writers deciding that there should be an episode where Sunset Shimmer/Starlight Glimmer/Celestia/Luna/Twilight Sparkle/Rarity/Lyra Heartstrings/Derpy straight up destroys [choose one].

 

Besides, if alicorns are the most powerful beings, why didn't you include Twilight/Cadance/MacFlurry as legit competitors? Maybe their alicorn power is yet to be shown and they will beat up Celestia hm?

 

P.S. I trusted in Celestia and Luna's destroying worlds abilities too, but after they got beat up by clouds in The Crystalling (I know that these clouds couldn't be stopped but they were just flying around doing pew pew, instead of some breath-taking boom, shield or something) I decided to believe the second theory, that they are not that powerful as they seem.

Edited May 5, 2016 by TBlaze

[Goat-kun 2,498]

Considering that this show's not about pony arena fights, you are too confident and eager to fight. While I do agree that alicorns are generally much more powerful than unicorns, I say that extraordinary unicorns can be born with enormous raw magic potential and thus are potential alicorndom ascendants with proper training. And just as I said in my post, this is my personal opinion (and I'm not willing to change it), that is your personal opinion (I guess you neither) and the best we can do is to dream about writers deciding that there should be an episode where Sunset Shimmer/Starlight Glimmer/Celestia/Luna/Twilight Sparkle/Rarity/Lyra Heartstrings/Derpy straight up destroys [choose one].

 

Besides, if alicorns are the most powerful beings, why didn't you include Twilight/Cadance/MacFlurry as legit competitors? Maybe their alicorn power is yet to be shown and they will beat up Celestia hm?

 

P.S. I trusted in Celestia and Luna's destroying worlds abilities too, but after they got beat up by clouds in The Crystalling (I know that these clouds couldn't be stopped but they were just flying around doing pew pew, instead of some breath-taking boom, shield or something) I decided to believe the second theory, that they are not that powerful as they seem.

So, in other words: you want to fight my challenge to substantiate your claims on a pony’s power with more unsubstantiated personal opinion. Guess you should do you, and I’ll do myself.

 

To clear things up: substantiate your claim by explaining the objective lore and fantasy related mechanics that make your pony the most powerful pony. This effectively removes their episodes and concentrates on woo logic of general fantasy and written/stated (not implied with actions/results needed to drive an episode’s plot forward) facts about pony magic. Also, it is welcome to bring a pony’s personality and assumed knowledge into the equation. That’s that.

[TBlaze 158]

 

 

To clear things up: substantiate your claim by explaining the objective lore and fantasy related mechanics that make your pony the most powerful pony.

 

What objective lore do we have to say that Celestia and Luna are the most powerful beings ever? What do we know:

-Before them, a bunch of regular unicorns did the day/night stuff,

-They were not able to defeat villains without the Elements, which are kinda cheating,

-And I can't think of anything else right now. It's late okay.

 

Celestia most probably lost big part of her power due to exhausting work of  lifting both sun and moon for thousand years. She lost to Chrysalis after all duh.

 

I'm not saying the Royal Sisters are not extremely powerful. Or maybe I am, but let's assume that I'm not for now. I just put two unicorns in the top with'em. Starlight Glimmer did some impressing stuff after all, and her potential power, as well as knowledge, is huge. The same goes to Sunset, but here we're maybe a little more presumming. Sunset was Celestia's personal student for a long time, was putting an awful lot of work into learning magic, and (but I don't know if it's objective enough for you) was powerful enough to become a princess if not for her arrogance, which stopped Celestia from making her one. 

 

By the way, I can't understand why you are so aggresive towards my statement that it's my and your opinion. You nearly jumped at my throat because I wanted to ensure everyone that my reasoning is not definitive and canon.

[Goat-kun 2,498]

I agree that this should be the case, I am just largely underwhelmed (and occasionally disappointed) by what I have seen in the cartoon regarding the might of the sisters, or rather, the lack thereof.

 

I want to see Celestia and Luna in full unbridled rage kicking some serious flank when nopony else can.  But alas, it seems my desire is to remain forever unfulfilled.

Amen to that.

 

I think that this is because the fights themselves are just there to push an episode’s narrative with a bit of clumsy eye candy, and that is why we are where we are. Writers never ask themselves how the girls fight. The only part of a magic fight they are interested in is the outcome + lesson/redemption. So when the outcome needs to be: “Remove Celestia and Luna from an episode,” or: “Twilight needs to convince my brand new OC with words of friendship,” you get these crummy pew-pew things that play with hearts and minds of many confused fans. Whether this is because of financial reasons or writers pulling a Prometheus is debatable.

[cider float 2,535]

It's pretty much contested. I don't think Twilight alone can have the most magic since her Elements of Harmony requires the combination of the mane six. For a brief moment with Four Alicorn Twilight she was one of the more powerful magical beings out there. Starlight Glimmer seems to be pretty knowledgeable in magic but in terms of magic power similar to Twilight or maybe even less on that regard. 

 

If we're throwing in non-ponies there's also Tirek who has the potential to absorb all magic and of course Discord who doesn't need to really do much to use any magic at any power he wants to. Oh yeah and the Tantabus also possessing frightening power though not sure if it's magical (what else would it be?)

Edited May 5, 2016 by cider float

[Goat-kun 2,498]

What objective lore do we have to say that Celestia and Luna are the most powerful beings ever? What do we know:

-Before them, a bunch of regular unicorns did the day/night stuff,

-They were not able to defeat villains without the Elements, which are kinda cheating,

-And I can't think of anything else right now. It's late okay.

 

Celestia most probably lost big part of her power due to exhausting work of  lifting both sun and moon for thousand years. She lost to Chrysalis after all duh.

 

I'm not saying the Royal Sisters are not extremely powerful. Or maybe I am, but let's assume that I'm not for now. I just put two unicorns in the top with'em. Starlight Glimmer did some impressing stuff after all, and her potential power, as well as knowledge, is huge. The same goes to Sunset, but here we're maybe a little more presumming. Sunset was Celestia's personal student for a long time, was putting an awful lot of work into learning magic, and (but I don't know if it's objective enough for you) was powerful enough to become a princess if not for her arrogance, which stopped Celestia from making her one. 

 

By the way, I can't understand why you are so aggresive towards my statement that it's my and your opinion. You nearly jumped at my throat because I wanted to ensure everyone that my reasoning is not definitive and canon.

I’m not aggressive. This is my calm and happy writing

 

Again, I’m saying that you should scrap everything about the episodes and leave only things that were explicitly stated to be true. One such thing is the superiority of alicorn magic written in the Journal of the Two Sisters. I am stating that all other mishaps and events, from Celestia getting rekt over and over, or Twilight getting defeated by a unicorn, are there only to drive the plot forward and were concocted by our glorious writers specifically because of that sole reason. I am stating this because the whole show does that all the time. Pony personalities, abilities, and previous lessons all get ignored in various episodes. That is why I proposed to take all that out of the equation and look at these ponies in a simulator using general third party rules that are used all over fantasy worlds. It’s not the best way I’m sure, but it’s good if you don’t want everything to degenerate into “My waifu is best cause episode X.” It’s only a matter of time before some looney then drags Pinkie into the debate and starts swearing by all the Outer Gods that she is a powerful chaos mage.

[Radiance64 7,051]

Twilight is like a Goku of magic, she will always end up being most powerful.

Starlight's no slouch either, she could easily end up being as if not more powerful than Twilight.

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

 

 

what do you mean by luna unfetted???

 

Luna unleashing her wrath and fury without restraint, basically  Nightmare Moon.  Obviously she's not likely to do that any time soon, we know that when she does, she tends to lose herself a bit.  Girl's got some serious anger issues.

[Buddah69 2]

It has to be Twilight! Its her cutie mark after all. Am i right?

[MLPFanatic34 3,234]

Gosh that's tough to say, but probably Twilight followed by Starlight Glimmer.

[darkwingmare 1,296]

If we're not talking Alicorns, it's definitely Starlight Glimmer. If Alicorn, it's definitely Flurry Heart.

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

Twilight is like a Goku of magic, she will always end up being most powerful.

 

 

Umm... by twilight's admission she already IS more powerful than her :/

Starlight BTFO'd twilight to a draw in a magic duel and twilight stated how she couldn't defeat her magically since she was just too strong at the end.

 

Starlight > Twilight at magic currently (which is yet ANOTHER reason I dislike Starlight)

[Marimo 555]

twilight stated how she couldn't defeat her magically since she was just too strong at the end.

I think you might be misinterpreting what she meant by that. Given how things kept playing out, with their interactions constantly being interrupted with Twilight getting sent forward, she probably meant that Starlight was strong enough that Twilight couldn't stop her from messing with the timeline.

 

It's kind of like those things where one guy is fighting someone but is also protecting someone, so they have problems because they can't protect that person or thing while also beating the one they're fighting.

Edited May 7, 2016 by Marimo

[The Nth Doctor 652]

In terms of raw power?

Twilight

 

In terms of experience?

Celestia

 

In terms of variety?

Star Swirl

[powerpuff-tsubasa 447]

celestia and luna. they sure are pro dealing with "magical problems" twi is a runner-up