Megas 27,061 May 28, 2016 Share May 28, 2016 http://www.vox.com/2016/5/26/11780394/captain-america-hydra-spoilers No I'm not even gonna hide this in a spoiler, because this is a beyond idiotic idea and everyone should know Just yesterday Marvel released Captain America: Steve Rogers #1, with a twist at the end saying he was a HYDRA Agent all along. Which also means he's a Nazi And this goes against literally everything the character stands for. For 75 years Captain America has always been seen as a symbol of American Patriotism. His creators, Joe Simon and Jack Kirby, were Jewish and created the character as a way both build patriotism and to encourage action against Nazi suppression, which we all see from the iconic cover of Captain America punching Hitler in the face. For them to reveal that he was a Nazi this whole time is a betrayal of the character and an insult to the people who created him 11 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scrubbed user 3,415 May 28, 2016 Share May 28, 2016 That's probably one of the most fucked up things I've seen. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Night Silent 93 May 28, 2016 Share May 28, 2016 Seriously, Marvel? I liked you all this time. Most of my life, and you do this?! I am disappointed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lisa 5,552 May 28, 2016 Share May 28, 2016 (edited) Anything for more interest in the franchise, controversy means more money. Edited May 28, 2016 by Holiday Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Odd Ball 230 May 28, 2016 Share May 28, 2016 (edited) I'm not American and yet I'm offended by this decision. Edited May 28, 2016 by Da King 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frostgage 7,972 May 28, 2016 Share May 28, 2016 rip freedom #MakeCaptainAmericaGreatAgain 4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PiratePony 8,473 May 28, 2016 Share May 28, 2016 This is Death Of Superman levels of idiocy. Wait, since Marvel, this is Spider-Man never married MJ levels of idiocy. No wait. Unless this turns out to be some alternate reality or fake out, this is the new gold standard of idiocy. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HorrorShow 81 May 28, 2016 Share May 28, 2016 Oh well... I'm in the Team Tony anyway 8 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mand'alor Dash 2,224 May 28, 2016 Share May 28, 2016 To my understanding, Hydra is more of an Illuminati organization than a neo-nazi group, and they have their hooks deep in the American government. That's what they were in Winter Soldier, at least. I don't read the comics. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Bleck 19,166 May 28, 2016 Share May 28, 2016 Okay, this is way beyond jumping the shark... https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NvgU9-SgjcM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Edgeworth1001 648 May 28, 2016 Share May 28, 2016 So did Trump became president in Earth-616 and Steve decided that a group of neo-facists was the lesser of both evil? 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Castle Bleck 19,166 May 28, 2016 Share May 28, 2016 So did Trump became president in Earth-616 Either him or Hillary Clinton, looks like. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cmarston1 5,951 May 28, 2016 Share May 28, 2016 What? I don't even read the comics, and I find this to be ridiculous. Thankfully as someone who's interest in the character comes from the movies this doesn't really effect me, but I can see why it is a pretty stupid decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest May 28, 2016 Share May 28, 2016 Anything for more interest in the franchise, controversy means more money. Sadly this is true. I mean look how many people started talking about this because of this decision. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Accord 6,658 May 28, 2016 Share May 28, 2016 (edited) To my understanding, Hydra is more of an Illuminati organization than a neo-nazi group, and they have their hooks deep in the American government. That's what they were in Winter Soldier, at least. I don't read the comics. You're wrong AND right at once. Hydra has been very nebulous in its ideology and function. However it WAS started by the Nazis and survived the fall of the Third Reich in secret. It's changed leadership and goals many times, always with the purpose of global domination and subjugation of the masses but for what ends and who is to be subjugated changes from time to time. At their heart though, Hydra remains an organization born and most often lead by the Red Skull. The movie version is a Care Bears villain compared to the comic iteration, who was raised and reared to be the perfect Nazi by the fuhrer himself! (Basically on a bet too, it was like My Fair Nazi.) He more than lives up to that with fascism, racism, and mass murder boiled down to a science. THAT is the Hydra that Cap is now loyal to since we see the Skull is still in charge. (Plus even if they were some American government within the government, as you pointed out they should STILL be Cap's enemies as he embodies the Mark Twain quote; "Patriotism is supporting your country all the time, and your government when it deserves it.") So did Trump became president in Earth-616 and Steve decided that a group of neo-facists was the lesser of both evil? Just wanted to say that, that's funny. ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ ~ I have a funny story about this. I was at my local comic shop and bought this fateful issue. The guy at the counter told me that some people were in a twist about the ending but he consciously left out the detail. I shrugged and thought nothing of it, but then went to the back, sat down on the bar and read it. I closed the book and was just left staring at the M&M's ad on the back for what felt like a minute and a half. I went back out and asked if there was an issue #2. As it turns out, I was all caught up. So for the first time in my life of reading comic books, I'm actually not playing catch up in continuity, I'm here on the edge with everyone else. Now, like the rest of you, I was shocked and horrified, but unlike many here and elsewhere, I'm not raging against Marvel or the writers. This isn't the end of the story, it's issue number one of a new arc, this is the beginning, a setup. Let's not forget he recently came in contact with the cosmic cube, the thing that makes retcons an in-universe phenomenon. This makes an interesting turn for the character exactly because it isn't him. @@HorrorShow, made the perfect point. The reason this works as a setup for a new story is because it's the antithesis of the character, it wouldn't work or be as shocking if that weren't the case. This is a new challenge that Cap will have to face, he'll have to defeat himself and possibly an entire reality ontology that says this is who he should be. Will Cap's true nature beat out his nurture? . . . . Okay stupid question, it's comic books, but HOW is going to be one Hell of a ride! So I say, good on you Marvel, you broke my heart, now I'm looking forward to you putting it back together. Edited May 29, 2016 by Steel Accord 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Piranha 28,768 May 29, 2016 Share May 29, 2016 Anything for more interest in the franchise, controversy means more money. I'm all for everything controversial, BUT THEY HAVE TO MAKE SENSE Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Buck Testa 5,503 May 29, 2016 Share May 29, 2016 The worst thing about this twist is that we all know they are going to say "Nah this was just a deep cover operation this whole time" by the end of it. We know its not real, but they are trying to pass it off like it is real. Its an insult to our intelligence at that point. Even if they don't do it that way, they are basically giving a middle finger to 75 years of established characterization in favor of a cheap plot twist. Either way people hate this twists guts. When Cyclops went bad, I believed it. Cyclops was never really all that Stable. He's the kind of guy that sticks to a cause with religious fervor, and he's not necessarily above using dirty tricks to get what he needs to get done. Them building up to him becoming a Magneto like figure among mutants REALLY makes sense, because he and Magneto share a lot of common character traits. Captain America however has been a symbol of morality, even more so than someone like Superman. He's been shown to be able to lift Thor's hammer, and the only people capable of doing that are genuinely good and pure people. To say that he's been Hydra this whole time is to say that he's so good at acting that he fooled even a magical hammer that basis its ability to be used on a person's moral fiber. We are talking about something ridiculously implausible and most certainly out of character. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Accord 6,658 May 29, 2016 Share May 29, 2016 (edited) The worst thing about this twist is that we all know they are going to say "Nah this was just a deep cover operation this whole time" by the end of it. We know its not real, but they are trying to pass it off like it is real. Its an insult to our intelligence at that point. Ummm no they . . . really aren't. See above basically for basically a rebuttal before I knew I was rebuttal-ing. They aren't "insulting our intelligence" this is tugging at our heart strings because they know we are loyal to the character and know him. When Cyclops went bad, I believed it. Cyclops was never really all that Stable. He's the kind of guy that sticks to a cause with religious fervor, and he's not necessarily above using dirty tricks to get what he needs to get done. Them building up to him becoming a Magneto like figure among mutants REALLY makes sense, because he and Magneto share a lot of common character traits. Okay ALL of that, I completely agree with. Captain America however has been a symbol of morality, even more so than someone like Superman. He's been shown to be able to lift Thor's hammer, and the only people capable of doing that are genuinely good and pure people. To say that he's been Hydra this whole time is to say that he's so good at acting that he fooled even a magical hammer that basis its ability to be used on a person's moral fiber. We are talking about something ridiculously implausible and most certainly out of character. Again see above, but boiling it down, the fact that is IS out of character is exactly why it works as a twist. Characters can act "out of character" to convey something about the situation. The guy who never curses drops an F-bomb, the nicknamer addresses his ally or enemy by their proper name, the person who never smiled finally does at the end of the story. http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/OOCIsSeriousBusiness?from=Main.OutOfCharacterIsSeriousBusiness Edited May 29, 2016 by Steel Accord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Radiance64 7,051 May 29, 2016 Share May 29, 2016 Yeah that's kinda dumb... like why lol Just hope that plot line doesn't leak into the movies... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Emiko Gale 199 May 29, 2016 Share May 29, 2016 The moral of this story is that even plot twists are supposed to make some sort of sense. When will writers finally get this?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steel Accord 6,658 May 29, 2016 Share May 29, 2016 (edited) The moral of this story is that even plot twists are supposed to make some sort of sense. When will writers finally get this?! It's issue #1 of a new arc. A setup not a payoff. And for the record it did make sense. The whole issue kept flashing back to Steve's mom meeting Sinclair and him basically being raised in the Hydra Youth. (Which anypony who's actually READ IT and not just had the ending spelled out to them has no right to act in the dark about.) Yeah that's kinda dumb... like why lol Just hope that plot line doesn't leak into the movies... The likelihood of that is basically non-existent. The movies aren't chasing the comic's continuity. If they were, Sam would be Captain America basically now and Spidey wouldn't still be living with Aunt May in a Queens apartment complex but running his own corporation. Edited May 29, 2016 by Steel Accord Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest May 29, 2016 Share May 29, 2016 This honestly reminds me a lot of this clip: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SilverStarApple 849 May 31, 2016 Share May 31, 2016 This was a terrible idea and I've already posted on Reddit about this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sunny Fox 5,929 May 31, 2016 Share May 31, 2016 He's obviously being a double agent... he makes Hydra think he's one of theirs, so he can take them down from the inside. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
heavens-champion 1,893 May 31, 2016 Share May 31, 2016 (edited) What was in the coffee Marvel was drinking? Now what do we call him? Captain HYDRA? Edited May 31, 2016 by heavens-champion Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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