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The current state of MLPforums


honk friend

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I've been feeling this issue getting worse and worse lately and I'm just sitting here wondering if I'm alone

By no means do I have a problem with the rules in place, however I feel like the way they're enforced is problematic to say the least

It's bordering on censorship lately, say anything that could be remotely construed as offensive and it gets removed. I saw a thread not long ago that almost inspired me to create this thread yet I held back since it was eventually removed, but I saw one user literally praise MLPforums staff for removing the unpopular opinions thread because apparently any disagreeable opinion shouldn't be voiced for the safety of the users here.

 

I understand this is supposed to be a family friendly forum, but I feel it's bordering on a tumblr-level hugbox only ANY disagreeable opinion isn't just shunned, but also censored entirely and sometimes without comment.

I'm afraid likely nothing will be done about this, but considering it's almost driven me to leaving today I feel like something needs to be said

I posted this here rather than in the feedback thread since I intend for this to breed discussion and/or debate about the topic, but if the mods would like to move it I guess I can see why

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As someone who has not been on MLP forums in a long time, this worries me. It definitely sounds like you're describing a country like North Korea, albeit less severe.

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I agree. There needs to be reform to the admin roster, or make it so removed posts can be easily disputed.

 

Whatever is going on, its not good for the forums, and if it continues, good members will be ether bullied out of the forums by over zealous admins, or the forums will just die.

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@

Moving this topic to Feedback where it can receive the appropriate attention.

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(edited)

I don't know if you are referencing a specific incident that I'm unaware of, but I've never seen a mod freeze a thread simply because they do not like it. Threads get frozen when people are being disrespectful or when discussion stops being productive. So-called "unpopular posts" in this community, tbh, are often discriminatory or insulting. Those type of posts tend to be unpopular because we have a diverse fanbase and people get defensive when people put a large chunk on the fans on blast. To keep our fandom healthy & positive, we shouldn't want people to be able to be rude without consequences, especially since the brony community likes to pride itself on its open-minded, loving nature. I think the mods do a good job at enforcing high expectations for our community. It keeps us more mature and makes people think before they type. I actually feel more at ease here than in most online spaces because of the mods, who clearly want these forums to be classier than your average internet comment sections.

 

If people want to talk about things our community finds inappropriate, there are many, many other sections of the internet that would welcome their dialogue with open arms. Try reddit.

Edited by Jennabun
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It doesn't really seem like that big of a thing to me. Are you referring to when mods lock topics due to debates getting heated? If that's the case then I agree. If not, then I'm not sure what you're talking about.

 

I post with wrongthink all the time. Hell, just look at my signature. :D

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(edited)

It doesn't really seem like that big of a thing to me. Are you referring to when mods lock topics due to debates getting heated? If that's the case then I agree. If not, then I'm not sure what you're talking about.

 

I post with wrongthink all the time. Hell, just look at my signature. :D

 

Not particularly, I'm not a huge huge fan of the debate pit but it seems like the only place safe from what feels like censorship right now

And maybe it isn't a huge or obvious problem, but I'm noticing it and I feel like it's growing. Not threads getting locked particularly, but posts that may breed unsavory responses getting outright removed regardless of whether or not the posts are toxic in nature. I know there are a lot of people who don't like heated debates and obviously many people who don't like outright fighting here, but even the concept alone of thread cleanup which has been around for a very long time just stinks of censorship and I don't like it in the slightest, because I feel lately it's been breeding an attitude that it's fine to censor unpopular opinions or unsavory posts, and that's where my response to Jenna comes in

 

I don't know if you are referencing a specific incident that I'm unaware of, but I've never seen a mod freeze a thread simply because they do not like it. Threads get frozen when people are being disrespectful or when discussion stops being productive. So-called "unpopular posts" in this community, tbh, are often discriminatory or insulting. Those type of posts tend to be unpopular because we have a diverse fanbase and people get defensive when people put a large chunk on the fans on blast. To keep our fandom healthy & positive, we shouldn't want people to be able to be rude without consequences, especially since the brony community likes to pride itself on its open-minded, loving nature. I think the mods do a good job at enforcing high expectations for our community. It keeps us more mature and makes people think before they type. I actually feel more at ease here than in most online spaces because of the mods, who clearly want these forums to be classier than your average internet comment sections.

 

If people want to talk about things our community finds inappropriate, there are many, many other sections of the internet that would welcome their dialogue with open arms. Try reddit.

 

You say that which isn't far from censorship keeps us mature, but I very much disagree. You said so yourself, this is a very diverse forum, and when we're not allowed to express or discuss these diversities for fear of stepping over someone's toes, no matter how civil or factual you're being, that contributes to the hugbox I fear this forum is becoming. I agree that fighting isn't good for our community by any means, but ignoring the fact that it happens just contributes to this place feeling more of a feel-good echo chamber where nobody's feelings are hurt ever. 

 

The fact that you told me to go elsewhere because this forum isn't what I'm looking for when I've managed 800 replies to meaningful content is pretty infuriating. Like I'd leave behind the community I fell in love with because this place has been taking a turn for the worse lately. I'm staying here regardless of what this forum goes to just because of some of the wonderful people here like twiggy and kyoshi, but that doesn't mean I'm not allowed to express my dissent for the way things are enforced around here.

Edited by Rowlet
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I'm not banned yet, so if the admins is trying to censor unpopular and offensive opinions then they're not doing a very good job at it.

 

Seriously though, the admins don't censors unpopular opinions. Nor do they remove everything offensive. I have no idea where you got that from.

 

Also there's other websites where admins isn't as hard on the rules as here. You could always join one of them.

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I don't really agree with this. I feel there is a distinction between censoring a thread fostering unpopular opinions vs. Deleting a thread that may foster hatred, bigotry, or flame. I feel the mods of mlpf distinguish between these pretty well.

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Guest

I'm in the middle on this. There are times where I feel actions are justified and times when I don't. I think the only real "solution" is to call out the specific times where they are not justified and talk to the staff on a direct level about it. I mean mistakes are going to happen, obviously.

 

I do feel sometimes the solution is put up as "throw the baby out with the bathwater" but not as the "go-to" solution, but it's situational.

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Reminds me of the time I went to Pepsi and convinced them to taste more like Coke.

 

;)

 

There are three ways one can dispute a locked topic. PM staff like Sharks said, report one of the posts in a locked topic, or send in a formal dispute.

 

If someone honestly sees the Administration like Kim Jong Un ... face it ... there is no saving your opinion.

Once you reach a point of absurdity like that you've reached the point where rational discourse is impossible. The simple fact that these topics do not get locked kinda proves that moderation isn't is power play, a PR reason, or even censorship for censorships sake.

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Reminds me of the time I went to Pepsi and convinced them to taste more like Coke.

 

;)

 

There are three ways one can dispute a locked topic. PM staff like Sharks said, report one of the posts in a locked topic, or send in a formal dispute.

 

If someone honestly sees the Administration like Kim Jung Un ... face it ... there is no saving your opinion.

Once you reach a point of absurdity like that you've past the point where rational discourse is impossible. The simple fact that these topics do not get locked kinda proves that moderation isn't is power play, a PR reason, or even censorship for censorships sake.

 

I've never been referred to simply as "sharks" before. It took me a minute to figure out you were referring to me.

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Fwiw, if you dig through Media Discussion, you can find plenty of "unpopular opinions" threads.

 

https://mlpforums.com/topic/132009-is-there-anyone-here-who-isnt-into-pokemon-or-anime/

https://mlpforums.com/topic/140752-what-are-somethings-that-you-love-that-everyone-else-hates/

https://mlpforums.com/topic/151770-films-you-dislike-most-people-like/

https://mlpforums.com/topic/151330-what-is-your-favorite-underrated-song/

https://mlpforums.com/topic/146871-does-anyone-feel-that-pixar-is-extremely-overrated/

https://mlpforums.com/topic/31032-what-movies-do-you-like-yet-most-people-hatedislike/

 

This is just from the past month alone, and I'm sure you could find others if you were to dig further back or look in other sections.

 

The goal of removing the Unpopular Opinions thread wasn't to encourage circlejerkery (in fact, if you look at the old Unpopular Opinions thread, it was often a circlejerk in its own right imo). We do have a Debate Pit, after all. Part of the idea of taking down the general UO thread was to hopefully get people to make more topics like the ones linked above, rather than just dumping posts into a large thread encompassing every possible opinion on any subject. That way we can get more specific discussion, which is something the staff does want to encourage.

 

I was on staff when the thread was taken down (and argued against it being closed, in fact). The issue was never "We do not want people to express the opinions they'd use an Unpopular Opinions thread to express", and it being closed had everything to do with the reasons Spoon listed off here. People using the topic as an excuse to start shit, the extreme broadness of the topic not leading to much discussion, all that jazz.

--------

 

Can't comment on anything that's happened recently since I'm severely out of touch with anything that's happened in the past several months, but I thought I'd talk more about that "Unpopular Opinions" thing since it was mentioned as a concern.

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Aye, it was mostly about trying to get each post to stand on its own as a topic. Of course we are typing on a communication platform that promotes and at times encourages knee-jerk commentary ... so yeah ... therein lies the problem.

If the issue behind this is 'MLPF won't let me be an cheeky ass' ... I couldn't care less if those individuals were told to pound sand. It isn't hard not to be a dick.

If this is about specific topics not being permitted, I've usually been a fan of this process:

Mod Post > Thread Bans of people who can't read Mod Posts > Lock.

That said, some topics are obviously never going to be a good idea since we are a 13+ board. Some tend to just not belong here. There has always been a general view that topics that overgeneralize in a negative light (all Muslims are 'x', all Christians are 'y', all Trans individuals are 'z') don't fit this site's mission statement of creating a welcoming and inclusive environment.

That is most certainly nothing new. Even with a staff that includes people from every spectrum of ideology and religious temperament ... this has always been the SOP. I remember one day getting a mod dispute stating we were promoting a SJW mentality. Same day also received a dispute accusing us of creating an environment that was pro-conservative. I remember almost asking them to get together and make up their mind. ;)

Either way ... bring up specific issues with staff rationally. Avoid words like 'Nazi' or 'You people'. Ask specific probing questions like 'what could be improved to make 'x' topic work in this webspace?' Guarantee you'll get a reasonable reply.

If you get a snarky reply say this ... 'Can we have a conversation please? I don't think x reply is going to be productive'. If that doesn't work ... you have a LOT of Admins to take it up with.

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Avoid words like 'Nazi' or 'You people'
 

 

"Hello staff member.

 

I really like how you guys do business. You're a great bunch and I disagree with people saying you're nazis. You people are all right."

 

Except if you use it like that, right? :P

 

(I kid, I kid)

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@, I could be wrong in saying this, but it seems as though you aren't angry in posting this. Many (not all, but many) times when people post threads of this nature they are, so I appreciate that you seem not to be. If you are, well, I take it back.  

 

When the moderation team decided to permanently locked the Unpopular Opinions thread it was based on the sheer number of reports we had gotten on it. Generally threads aren't locked permanently unless there's a damned good reason, and then we try to find creative solutions around them. Some are never reopened (Dating threads of any sort), while others are re-purposed, like the Clop thread, which was banned as any sort of discussion for a long time, then moved to Debate Pit. I won't be linking it, as it'll just confuse non-members as to why they can't click it.

 

I too was on staff when the thread was taken down, although I can't remember what side I was one for the life of me. I was probably for it be closed, if we're going to be honest. Unfortunately, the report system for our software is piss poor, so finding reports is like finding a minuscule needle inside of a piece of hay inside of a haystack. That doesn't leave you without recourse. You can either open a support ticket, or email disputes@mlpforums.com. They'll both go to the same place - The admins. We're not as big of dicks as everyone thinks we are, even though I can be, I'm not always, and it takes provocation for me to be so. 

 

Also, dating threads will not be a thing again. Ever. Seriously, way too much drama. Not aimed at you, Rowlet, that was just a general announcement. We have a partner site. Use that. 18 and older only.

 

@@Key Sharkz, I never replied to your previous feedback thread. I apologize for that. There was a car accident, then my birthday, finals, and family visiting. I'm just getting back to the forums now, but your thread was taken to heart, and now that my busy month is over, and before another family flurry happens again, there are changes incoming. Just have to wrangle all the admins together to discuss it. 

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Also, dating threads will not be a thing again.

 

Unless you count RP threads.  :P

 

On topic though, I can see where the OP is going with this.  There was a thread I caught before it got deleted and I saw the offensive messages the staff made to a user.  When I asked Yellow Diamond about this, they said that the user's account(who I won't name) was hijacked and was used to post offensive comments.

 

I won't go any further than that unless given a PM wanting to explain more(though I can only give the story Yellow Diamond sent me), but my moral is to try to reason with the users before using disciplinary action.  And if disciplinary action is needed, do the messages in a nice way.

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If the issue behind this is 'MLPF won't let me be an cheeky ass' ... I couldn't care less if those individuals were told to pound sand. It isn't hard not to be a dick.

 

 

 

" We will blatantly censor people for no reason other than we don't like what you say, and not care what you think in the process."

 

The problem he lies in the fact you assume being cheeky, means we are being mean, hateful or abusive, when in reality, being cheeky is a tool used to extenuate an idea. limiting, and censoring these kinds of posts only serves to limit the amount of expression a forum goer can use, so its no wonder why many members think lesser of admins. Your role on these forums is to punish legitimate abuse, and other infringements on the rules... not bend the rules to your personal agenda., something several admins seem to forget.

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*grumbles to himself and hovers over the hide button*

I can not speak for the rest of the staff, but we do try to have a general sense of humor when we can. But at the end of the day we are only the same as yourselves, and at times personal views can come into conflict with what is best with the community.

I am sure many a member has posted something out of pure passion and then sat back and regretted it later.

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*grumbles to himself and hovers over the hide button*

I can not speak for the rest of the staff, but we do try to have a general sense of humor when we can. But at the end of the day we are only the same as yourselves, and at times personal views can come into conflict with what is best with the community.

I am sure many a member has posted something out of pure passion and then sat back and regretted it later.

 

But who is deciding what's best for the community?.... the community, or the people in charge of the forums the community uses?

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(edited)

The problem he lies in the fact you assume being cheeky, means we are being mean, hateful or abusive, when in reality, being cheeky is a tool used to extenuate an idea.

You do realise that the definition of cheeky is "rude and showing a lack of respect often in a way that seems playful or amusing", right? So it does mean that you're mean and hateful.

 

Your role on these forums is to punish legitimate abuse, and other infringements on the rules... not bend the rules to your personal agenda.

The role of the admins is to keep this forum a good place to discuss the show and the fandom. Making sure that people are having respectful and civil discussion is part of that. Edited by Gestum
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(edited)

You do realise that the definition of cheeky is "rude and showing a lack of respect often in a way that seems playful or amusing", right? So it does mean that you're mean and hateful.

 

The role of the admins is to keep this forum a good place to discuss the show and the fandom. Making sure that people are having respectful and civil discussion is part of that.

 

Yeah sure that's the "definition", but being able to use it in a way that's constructive SHOUDLENT be hindered, and admins SHOULD take this into consideration before blindly assuming abuse. INTENT should ALWAYS be taken in consideration, not just dictionary definitions, and bureaucracy.

 

Yes you are right, BUT, this is not what they are doing. they are pushing personal agendas.

Edited by Shepard of Fire
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Yeah sure that's the "definition".

If you don't like that definition there's always "disrespectful in speech or behaviour".

 

but being able to use it in a way that's constructive SHOUDLENT be hindered,

I'm curious. How can being "disrespectful in speech or behaviour" or "rude and showing a lack of respect often in a way that seems playful or amusing" be used in a constructive way?

 

 

INTENT should ALWAYS be taken in consideration, not just dictionary definitions, and bureaucracy.

It is probably always taken into consideration. Otherwise I would have been banned a long time ago.

Yes you are right, BUT, this is not what they are doing. they are pushing personal agendas.

I disagree with that statement. It's my personal opinion that the admins on this do not use their power to push any kind of personal agendas.

 

If you don't mind me asking, why are you on a forum when you obviously have a big problem with the admins on said forum?

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If you don't like that definition there's always "disrespectful in speech or behaviour".

 

I'm curious. How can being "disrespectful in speech or behaviour" or "rude and showing a lack of respect often in a way that seems playful or amusing" be used in a constructive way?

 

 

It is probably always taken into consideration. Otherwise I would have been banned a long time ago.

I disagree with that statement. It's my personal opinion that the admins on this do not use their power to push any kind of personal agendas.

 

If you don't mind me asking, why are you on a forum when you obviously have a big problem with the admins on said forum?

 

how about impudent, or irreverent in an endearing or amusing way. In debate I personally use as a way to show how an opposing view or argument is ridiculous, but your mileage may vary.... Old scholars use it as a way to fight back against oppression....... take political cartoons for example.

 

I am going to paint a picture for you.... Is killing someone wrong?... Lets say a small group says that killing someone is always wrong.... Now lets imagine that group got full and only say on cases where someone is killed by another person..... End picture painting.

 

What I get out of this scenario is that is impossible for a small group with total power to be fair, because only the opinion of that small group is taken into any consideration..... Therefore the admins are pushing a personal agenda. Members do not get enough, or hardly any say in forum policies or rules, and people are banned or suspended BEFORE they are given a chance to tell their side of the story, giving absolute power to Administration.

 

I don't mind you asking at all..... it is a perfectly valid question.... because it wasn't always like this.... well the polies were, but the admins actually respected the individual ways a user could express themselves, and people weren't suspended or banned just for expressing their views in their own unique way..... I don't want these forums to fall on that dark path anymore than it already is.

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