Jump to content
Banner by ~ Rikifive

Recommended Posts

I was wondering who the other diplomats are. We have already seen Camel Diplomats for Saddle Arabia, Zebra diplomats in the latest season, Gryphon diplomats, and one other I can't remember. I was wondering, are the Two sisters supreme rulers of all the land, or do they just rule over ponies? It doesn't seem like they are in a Monarchy since I'm pretty sure Momarchies don't have branching governments different to the one they are already using. I'm thinking it's like a hybrid of democracy and monarchy. Though, that still leaves a few holes in that theory because I'm pretty sure two siblings can't rule over a land. Do you guys have any thoughts, answers, or explanations? Maybe you have the same general question as me.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Badges


Register now to remove this ad.

I am pretty sure that they rule over only the ponies of Equestria in a dictatorship diarchy.

In Dragon Quest we see that the dragons don't really care about Celestia or Luna so I think that the other species that live in other countries don't really care about them either.

  • Brohoof 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

the idea of a dictaorship in equestria always ammused me from an outsides perspective to me it looks like old russian politics (the kings n queens) that looks a lot like equestria just happier

Link to post
Share on other sites

Even though there are other princesses, I believe it's safe to say that Celestia holds more power than all others. Luna was an exiled traitor who only recently returned after 1000 years imprisonment, Cadence is more of a governor focusing exclusively on the Crystal Empire, and Twilight just... does shit.

 

We have been given no indication of Equestria having a congress, or parliament, or any other legislative body besides the monarch. Voting probably comes into play on the local level (hence why Ponyville has a mayor), but being Supreme Princess is clearly an appointment for life.

 

Economically, Equestria clearly has the spirit of commerce and enterprise about it. Burgeoning capitalists like Rarity and Applejack are always looking to expand their businesses and rise above the competition. I have yet to see any regulations come into play, so I'm at least going to presume it's a mostly free market. There's also a probable lack of an extensive welfare state, since Flutter's brother essentially had to go live in the woods when he proved too insufferable to live with.

 

But what's most interesting is the tech disparity. Manehattan is clearly a modern, 20th century metropolis, while Ponyville still looks stuck in the 12th century. This leads me to believe that technology doesn't travel too far in Equestria, likely due to a weird system of inter-county tariffs on industrial goods, or simply the fact that trains are only used to carry passengers for some bizarre reason. Either way, the difference between industrial and agricultural communities in Equestria is even more pronounced than it was in the United States before the civil war, and that doesn't look like it's going away any time soon.

  • Brohoof 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

  • 1 month later...

In the first episode, it would have been hard to believe that Equestria is a democracy. But as we see more episodes, it seems to be more democratic than expected. 

 

Economically, Equestria clearly has the spirit of commerce and enterprise about it. Burgeoning capitalists like Rarity and Applejack are always looking to expand their businesses and rise above the competition. I have yet to see any regulations come into play, so I'm at least going to presume it's a mostly free market. There's also a probable lack of an extensive welfare state, since Flutter's brother essentially had to go live in the woods when he proved too insufferable to live with.

 

 

They seem more free marker oriented than expected. I mean just look at the Flin-Flam brother's products.

 

Also, in The Saddle Row Review, Rarity's landlord threatens to raise the rent if she does not allow his daughter to stay. I am pretty sure that many countries have laws to protect the tenant from this.

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

We have already seen Camel Diplomats for Saddle Arabia,
 

 

Those aren't camels. Those are more realistically styled horses, probably meant to evoke the tradition of horsemanship in many parts of the Middle East.

 

http://mlp.wikia.com/wiki/Saddle_Arabia_delegates

 

 

 

Zebra diplomats in the latest season, Gryphon diplomats

 

Where? The last episode was "Stranger than Fanfiction" we haven't seen zebra OR Gryphon diplomats. Twilight mentioned going to Griffonstone, but as an outreach, not a diplomatic summit.

 

 

 

and one other I can't remember.

 

You mean the yaks?

 

 

 

I was wondering, are the Two sisters supreme rulers of all the land, or do they just rule over ponies?

 

Their immediate governership is Equestria but seeing as they A ) control the Celestial bodies that give the planet life and B ) their neighboring nations are either considerably smaller (Yak-yakistan) or outright failed states (Griffonstone) this would give Celestia and Luna considerable political heft; equivalent to a super power.

 

 

 

It doesn't seem like they are in a Monarchy since I'm pretty sure Momarchies don't have branching governments different to the one they are already using.

 

Uhhhhhh . . . . yeah they do. Quite often throughout history.

 

 

 

I'm thinking it's like a hybrid of democracy and monarchy.

 

Oh, you mean a constitutional monarchy? Like what the modern U.K., Norway, Denmark, Spain, and Japan still use? 

 

 

 

Though, that still leaves a few holes in that theory because I'm pretty sure two siblings can't rule over a land.

 

Persia, Rome, Egypt, China, the Mongols; empires that controlled massive swaths of the globe have been ruled by ONE person.


 

 

and Twilight just... does shit.

 

I think her job is like being a sort of go between. She receives foreign delegates like the Yaks and manages national summits ("Princess Spike").


 

 

We have been given no indication of Equestria having a congress, or parliament, or any other legislative body besides the monarch.

 

Well they did have that summit as mentioned above. So even lacking a formal congress or parliament, it could be that the cities and regions elect representatives to voice their concerns then and pretty much only then.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Badges

I've always likened Equestria to ancient Greece; essentially a loose connection or coalition of independent city-states. Though, in this case, Canterlot is definitely the capital of the land; no question there. Still, we haven't seen or heard many examples of Canterlot overruling Manehatten, so while I am sure there is some allegiance to the Princesses, it only goes so far.

 

 

Where? The last episode was "Stranger than Fanfiction" we haven't seen zebra OR Gryphon diplomats. Twilight mentioned going to Griffonstone, but as an outreach, not a diplomatic summit.

 

To be fair there was that one griffon diplomat in "Princess Spike."

  • Brohoof 3
Link to post
Share on other sites

But what's most interesting is the tech disparity. Manehattan is clearly a modern, 20th century metropolis, while Ponyville still looks stuck in the 12th century. This leads me to believe that technology doesn't travel too far in Equestria, likely due to a weird system of inter-county tariffs on industrial goods,

 

I don't think that's because of an action by law. We see that Ponyville has modern construction equipment available to it, Vinyl's turn tables, and even a hydro electric dam. More likely, necessity is the mother of invention and when a good chunk of your populace can use various forms of magic, what's neccesary is going to be very different.

Edited by Steel Accord
  • Brohoof 2
Link to post
Share on other sites
Badges

I've read several fan fics on the topic as well as taken a college history course and done some of my own research playing ~200 hours of Crusader Kings 2 and I feel I have a good idea of Equestrian politics.

 

Firstly, there have been plenty of precedents throughout history where princes have ruled supreme.  For example, in pre-imperial (medieval) Russia, the Russian states (Ryazan, Novgorod, Pereyeslavl, Tver, etc) were all ruled by princes, and were known as principalities.  All of the principalities were united under the Grand Principality of Kiev, and whoever sat upon the throne of Kiev was regarded as the Grand Prince of the Rus'.  Therefore, it would be safe to say that Equestria is such a principality.

 

Secondly, there have been autocratic societies with more than one ruler.  Take, for instance, Diocletian's tetrarchy in the Roman Empire.  In order to combat overextension, Emperor Diocletian reformed the leadership of the Empire to include four rulers: two in the west and two in the east, with each half of the Empire having one Augustus (Greater Emperor) and one or more Caesares (Lesser Emperor).  However, I should mention that the Tetrarchy really only lasted until Diocletian's abdication, when Emperor Constantine the Great forcefully reunified the Empire after a bloody civil war.  Still, considering how Celestia and Luna are clearly very close, a diarchy is still possible.

 

Thirdly, it's hard to say whether the other nations that aren't clearly "Equestrian" are independent are simply vassals of the Principality.  I don't think that's ever been explained in the show, so that's up anyone's interpretation.  It's my opinion, however, that at least the Crystal Empire, despite having a styling that is above Principality, is a client state of Equestria.

Edited by Hazard Time
  • Brohoof 1
Link to post
Share on other sites
Badges

It's pretty clear that the central government of Equestria in Canterlot exercises a very loose control over the course of events in the land. Greater authority of rule seems vested in whatever local governments exist for each city-state. The Grand Equestria Pony Summit suggests that the main function of the central government is to organize interstate political events of such a form. It's even suggested that while Canterlot is the seat of the Diarchy, it is also represented independent of that Diarchy in the Summit. It seems to take the Greek notion of loosely associated city-states, the EU's notion of an economic union, the Russian concept of a Grand Principality, and mush it all together into something entirely unique. I suppose the delegation of powers breaks down something like this.

 

Local Governments - Primary legislative, judicial, and executive authority, selection of representation to Canterlot. City states may choose to settle interstate disputes on an individual basis, or appeal to the Princesses for adjudication.

 

Grand Equestria Pony Summit, and other political conventions - Interstate commerce negotiation and legislation, fostering national cooperation, redress of grievances with central government.

 

Princesses - Military commanders in chief, supreme adjudicators of interstate disputes, organizers of interstate political events, creation of national identity, raising the sun and moon.

 

Technologically, it doesn't appear that Equestria is to a point where greater central organization of the government is possible. At a similar level of technology, England was barely holding it's multi-continental empire together, and the United States was literally in the middle of a Civil War. Germany and Italy were just figuring out how to unify, and the rest of Europe was a bit of a mess. All told, the Princesses letting local governments mostly hash it out for themselves was probably a good idea.

Grand Equestria Pony Summit, and other political conventions - Interstate commerce negotiation and legislation, fostering national cooperation, redress of grievances with central government.

  • Brohoof 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

I've read several fan fics on the topic as well as taken a college history course and done some of my own research playing ~200 hours of Crusader Kings 2 and I feel I have a good idea of Equestrian politics.

 

Firstly, there have been plenty of precedents throughout history where princes have ruled supreme.  For example, in pre-imperial (medieval) Russia, the Russian states (Ryazan, Novgorod, Pereyeslavl, Tver, etc) were all ruled by princes, and were known as principalities.  All of the principalities were united under the Grand Principality of Kiev, and whoever sat upon the throne of Kiev was regarded as the Grand Prince of the Rus'.  Therefore, it would be safe to say that Equestria is such a principality.

 

Secondly, there have been autocratic societies with more than one ruler.  Take, for instance, Diocletian's tetrarchy in the Roman Empire.  In order to combat overextension, Emperor Diocletian reformed the leadership of the Empire to include four rulers: two in the west and two in the east, with each half of the Empire having one Augustus (Greater Emperor) and one or more Caesares (Lesser Emperor).  However, I should mention that the Tetrarchy really only lasted until Diocletian's abdication, when Emperor Constantine the Great forcefully reunified the Empire after a bloody civil war.  Still, considering how Celestia and Luna are clearly very close, a diarchy is still possible.

 

Thirdly, it's hard to say whether the other nations that aren't clearly "Equestrian" are independent are simply vassals of the Principality.  I don't think that's ever been explained in the show, so that's up anyone's interpretation.  It's my opinion, however, that at least the Crystal Empire, despite having a styling that is above Principality, is a client state of Equestria.

Didn't the Romans/Byzantines also have a whole "co-emperors" thing for a while, with emperors appointing their heirs as "junior co-emperors" (to cheat the Senate out of being able to pick a new emperor in the interim or something)? Luna doesn't seem to actually hold specific territory separate from Celestia; At most they rule at different times of the day. So Luna might be a Roman-style junior co-princess.

 

The show - it's especially obvious in the earlier seasons - also seems to give a pretty big Hellenic flavor to Equestria (chariots, the Royal Guards' helmets and more) - so Greek/Roman politics fits. An interesting thing I read was that the Roman Kingdom (that existed before the Roman Republic, which in turn preceded the Roman Empire) had its Senate or whatever consisting of 100 representatives from *each of the 3 tribes*. Three tribes...

Edited by Daring_Do
Link to post
Share on other sites

Didn't the Romans/Byzantines also have a whole "co-emperors" thing for a while, with emperors appointing their heirs as "junior co-emperors" (to cheat the Senate out of being able to pick a new emperor in the interim or something)? Luna doesn't seem to actually hold specific territory separate from Celestia; At most they rule at different times of the day. So Luna might be a Roman-style junior co-princess.

 

I'm not sure.  It certainly makes sense and sounds like a Roman thing to do.

 

However, I don't think it's quite like that.  Celestia and Luna DO hold jurisdictions mutually exclusive to each other.  For example, Luna is able to enter and manipulate dreams.  Even if Celestia could do that, she still stays out of it, and for good reason.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Badges

I'm not sure.  It certainly makes sense and sounds like a Roman thing to do.

 

However, I don't think it's quite like that.  Celestia and Luna DO hold jurisdictions mutually exclusive to each other.  For example, Luna is able to enter and manipulate dreams.  Even if Celestia could do that, she still stays out of it, and for good reason.

The "good reason" being that she's busy sleeping, maybe? ;P

 

Oh yeah, not sure if you saw the edit I made to my last post above, so let me add that in again:

 

"The show - it's especially obvious in the earlier seasons - also seems to give a pretty big Hellenic flavor to Equestria (chariots, the Royal Guards' helmets and more) - so Greek/Roman politics fits. An interesting thing I read was that the Roman Kingdom (that existed before the Roman Republic, which in turn preceded the Roman Empire) had its Senate or whatever consisting of 100 representatives from *each of the 3 tribes*. Three tribes..."

Edited by Daring_Do
Link to post
Share on other sites

The "good reason" being that she's busy sleeping, maybe? ;P

 

Oh yeah, not sure if you saw the edit I made to my last post above, so let me add that in again:

 

"The show - it's especially obvious in the earlier seasons - also seems to give a pretty big Hellenic flavor to Equestria (chariots, the Royal Guards' helmets and more) - so Greek/Roman politics fits. An interesting thing I read was that the Roman Kingdom (that existed before the Roman Republic, which in turn preceded the Roman Empire) had its Senate or whatever consisting of 100 representatives from *each of the 3 tribes*. Three tribes..."

 

Ah, I see.

 

As for the striking similarities between Equestria and the Roman Kingdom, I think that's just a coincidence.

Link to post
Share on other sites
Badges

Even though there are other princesses, I believe it's safe to say that Celestia holds more power than all others. Luna was an exiled traitor who only recently returned after 1000 years imprisonment, Cadence is more of a governor focusing exclusively on the Crystal Empire, and Twilight just... does shit.

 

We have been given no indication of Equestria having a congress, or parliament, or any other legislative body besides the monarch. Voting probably comes into play on the local level (hence why Ponyville has a mayor), but being Supreme Princess is clearly an appointment for life.

 

Economically, Equestria clearly has the spirit of commerce and enterprise about it. Burgeoning capitalists like Rarity and Applejack are always looking to expand their businesses and rise above the competition. I have yet to see any regulations come into play, so I'm at least going to presume it's a mostly free market. There's also a probable lack of an extensive welfare state, since Flutter's brother essentially had to go live in the woods when he proved too insufferable to live with.

 

But what's most interesting is the tech disparity. Manehattan is clearly a modern, 20th century metropolis, while Ponyville still looks stuck in the 12th century. This leads me to believe that technology doesn't travel too far in Equestria, likely due to a weird system of inter-county tariffs on industrial goods, or simply the fact that trains are only used to carry passengers for some bizarre reason. Either way, the difference between industrial and agricultural communities in Equestria is even more pronounced than it was in the United States before the civil war, and that doesn't look like it's going away any time soon.

 

We haven't seen much politics in the show period, as that's simply not the focus of the show. However, there's nothing stopping the idea of Equestria also potentially having something like a senate or congress, or something else. What that something could be is up to headcanon obviously, but nowhere does it says there can't be more elements of the government that we haven't seen.

 

Also, a lack of market regulations? No, an assumption like that just isn't reasonable. Economics aren't exactly a focus point of the show either, but proper regulations are a good thing, and all developed countries have them. Equestria would absolutely have protections in place to protect it's citizens and the environment, among other things. Ponies being able to have successful businesses if they so choose does not mean no regulation or anything of the sort.

 

And you can bet that Equestria does in fact have strong social safety nets, which includes welfare. Zephyr Breeze didn't go to the forests because of finances, he went there because he was scared and uncertain about what to do. He had a pretty big fear of failure and all, you know, he essentially ran away on his own because of it, nothing forced him to go to the woods. Luckily Fluttershy and Dash genuinely cared about him and were there to help him all the way through, they weren't ever about to abandon him or anything. Anyway, the ponies aren't ever going to let anyone starve or go without a home, that would very much go against many of the messages in the show, and wouldn't fit the setting at all. Strong social safety nets in Equestria are a given.

 

As far as the technology variance in the show, I dunno. One thing I will say is that Ponyville and other towns stylized with older architectures most definitely have stuff like modern medical care, electricity, construction equipment, etc. Ponyville seems to have a pretty good hospital, it has a hydro-electric dam, and it has construction equipment, among other things. So it's an interesting and fun part of Equestria, being able to have both modern towns and fantasy castles and so on in the same setting, but it doesn't mean that some ponies are living a lesser quality of life or anything. 

Edited by Vixor
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm gonna go on a different path and say that Equestria is actually an Anarchy. Now, don't confuse anarchy w/ lawlessness. Anarchy is the absence of central government. Essentially each town or group makes up it's own rules and chooses it's own leaders independently. Because soemone has to be a representative and fill that roll. There aren't really any signs of a central government in Equestria, namely no military and few signs of emergency and rescue services. Civilians have to do it all.

 

The royal guard isn't the military. They're the secret service. They aren't around unless the princesses are around.  Wonderbolts? Stunt flyers and athletes w/ traditions rooted in military history.  Fun tidbit: most sports like wrestling, boxing, javelin, shot put, high jump, sprint? All training for soldiers of old. So wonder-bolts keep military traditions, including rescue. They also function as a public services with weather management, akin to city employed electritions, plumbers, cleaners, technical crews ect. But they are not a defense force. They only acted as combatants in one role and that was against mega spike. But why them and not the guard? Simple, no princesses. The bolts were just first responders. They were in the same roll as the civilians. 

 

Late 18th century France was in a state of lawlessness. But even in the absence of government, towns still chose to form patrols and night watches against crime and invasions. In Equestria, civilians have to deal w/ most crisis. Cerberus, Parasprites, Trixie. No guards or bolts.  In the comics, even Canterlot had to defend itself w/ civilian militias. Appleoosa had local law enforcement, but no one to mediate relations between them and a tribal government. The sheriff looks town appointed than state or federal. Same deal with the one cop seen this season.

 

Most threats aren't fought with an organized military. Cause let's face it. What good would solders have been against NMM, Discord or Sombra? Civilians had to be called in. No one was gonna save them, and no one could. Specifically a certain 6 civilians.  Why build an army? When you have 6 friends wielding magic super weapons? Or 4 princesses that control the sun, moon and stars. 

 

With differences in technology and variations on cultures, it looks to me like each town is on its own. Celestia/Luna exist as representatives of the whole nation. Leaders that control the night of day in exchange for order, but not really governing outside the capitols or seats of power like Ponyville/Crystal Empire.  

 

Anarchy isn't lawlessness. It's the absence of overarching government, but that doesn't mean there isn't order established by the residents in various places. 

Edited by Denim&Venom
  • Brohoof 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

I'm gonna go on a different path and say that Equestria is actually an Anarchy. Now, don't confuse anarchy w/ lawlessness. Anarchy is the absence of central government. Essentially each town or group makes up it's own rules and chooses it's own leaders independently. Because soemone has to be a representative and fill that roll. There aren't really any signs of a central government in Equestria, namely no military and few signs of emergency and rescue services. Civilians have to do it all.

The apparent absence of an active military is not the absence of a military. You may not see uniformed soldiers walking about saluting, but there's a thing called civilian wear. Members of the American Military are expected only to wear their uniform during the duty day, and maintain a civilian appearance when not on duty, to maintain their personal security. No doubt, Equestria's military follows similar rules. Nothing you've said here precludes an Equestrian Military, and you even acknowledge that the weather service is an extension of the EUP that provides a non-combatant civil service, not unlike the Army Corps of Engineers. Ultimately, your argument of a lack of military is undermined by the explicit statement that Equestria is defended by the EUP in Testing, Testing.

 

My suspicion is that for the most part, the military is a reserve organization, since Equestria is not currently at war. Prior to 1945, this was the way the American Military functioned--once the war was fought, the large majority of the fighting force returned to the civilian life. Equestria's military seems to follow this paradigm.

Link to post
Share on other sites

@@ph00tbag,

I'm not saying Equestria never had a military. Canterlot itself was built with defense in mind. I'm saying it doesn't now. They haven't been mentioned since, which makes them sound like they were disbanded or relegated to ceremonial roles.  And if they are still around, where were they during the various crisis and attacks on Equestria? They aren't even visible during clean up and rescue efforts, nor are they in attendance during any of the royal celebrations & gatherings, events which would require a uniform. And as mentioned, a conventional military is useless against the kinds of threats Equestria faces in the show, and rendered obsolete in the faces of elements, rainbow keys and solar princesses.  

 

And I never said the weather service was an extension. I said it was descended from. Just as how athletics are descended from old military training, the public service of weather maintenance was once a military duty, now rendered a civilian one. 

Link to post
Share on other sites

@@Denim&Venom,

The apparatus for activating and mobilizing an entire armed force existed as late as the Mane 6's foalhood. How else could Celestia have built an army to combat King Sombra in the alternate timeline? That timeline only diverged from the prime timeline when Rainbow Dash failed to perform the Sonic Rainboom. Indeed, the apparatus needed to be functional at least a year prior to the time Twilight gets into the timeline, because Sombra only returned within a year of Twilight getting to Ponyville. At the very least, there was a draft of some description, and it was implemented at a national level.

 

And there are members of the Guard at nearly every royal ceremony. You may surmise that they are more of a secret service, but they also serve a role in keeping the peace, and Flash Sentry (who wears Equestrian Royal Guard armor, and not that of the Crystal Empire Guard). To boot, there's no proof other than your speculation that the organizational structure of Equestria's military is the same as America's. Actually, the fact that the Wonderbolts are members of the EUP, and not a separate air force proves that the two militaries have divergent structures.

 

The weather service still suggests a system that is organized at a national level, and is helmed by members of the Wonderbolts, another national level Military organization.

Link to post
Share on other sites

I am pretty sure that they rule over only the ponies of Equestrian in a dictatorship diarchy.

In Dragon Quest we see that the dragons don't really care about Celestia or Luna so I think that the other species that live in other countries don't really care about them either.

 

Expanding on what you're saying here with the different species ruling over themselves, this makes a lot of sense with the Griffons of Griffenstone having a King, the Dragons having their own Dragon Lord thingy going on, and the Yaks from YakYakastan having their Prince.

And then i thought about when the delegates from Saddle Arabia came, how they looked different than the other ponies and didn't have cutiemarks, and the song "Hearts as Strong as Horses" so Horses are a separate species from ponies.

I do think Celestia has some kind of higher power though, being that ponies are the only species with magic; excluding Discord's species of Caosbringers who's whereabouts are unknown/debatable.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Join the conversation

You can post now and register later. If you have an account, sign in now to post with your account.
Note: Your post will require moderator approval before it will be visible.

Guest
Reply to this topic...

×   Pasted as rich text.   Paste as plain text instead

  Only 75 emoji are allowed.

×   Your link has been automatically embedded.   Display as a link instead

×   Your previous content has been restored.   Clear editor

×   You cannot paste images directly. Upload or insert images from URL.

  • Recently Browsing   0 members

    No registered users viewing this page.

×
×
  • Create New...