critique wanted Give me animation advice.

[HoovesOnIce 74]

I made an animation around a week ago and I've been wanting to improve it.  Please do critique and tell me what I should do better on for my future projects.  I only use GIMP and Windows movie maker to animate this video and I don't want to pay for anything high like Adobe flash player until I improve much more.

 

 

 

 

 

[Malinter 3,064]

you might want to make their mouths open and close a little bit more and maybe add abit more variation in where they move there heads instead of just using eye motion alone.

[Lil Pip 775]

Yeah more body language, people like expression. Basically what Malinter said, and more changes per second would be more engaging but not so much that it distracts from the conversation but merely supplements the conversation. Also looking how others might do it to compare to your own. I wouldn't say Pika Petey for instance because his animations are short and not realistic but they are very engaging visually, due to fluidity and exaggeration. But that might not be the style you are looking for maybe you draw more inspiration from MAS or something else, but it depends if you want a regularly occurring series or a special creation now and then. Also maybe giving Pinkie some pep, and maybe make her a little bouncy. But All I can see bouncing might be her cheek/chin which would be weird lol(it could be funny though or unique). Also their rumps might be too distinct(look a little bulging almost I guess, more so when its up closer but maybe that's how you prefer the style) and the chests might need to be smoother(the lines more so than the overall shape). It mostly depends what sorta style or thing you are going for for the levels of exaggeration of body language, but also the character's personality.
Also Twilight's horn looks a little off to me but that might be how you want it idk. Maybe compare different unicorns to see if thats how you really want it. And take this with some salt, idk if I'm too harsh or if you want a harsh criticism or etc. I have no experience with art production myself, only with viewing art sometimes(have like 5k mostly fan art images in my folder I downloaded).

Edited June 24, 2016 by Lil Pip

[HoovesOnIce 74]

Yeah more body language, people like expression. Basically what Malinter said, and more changes per second would be more engaging but not so much that it distracts from the conversation but merely supplements the conversation. Also looking how others might do it to compare to your own. I wouldn't say Pika Petey for instance because his animations are short and not realistic but they are very engaging visually, due to fluidity and exaggeration. But that might not be the style you are looking for maybe you draw more inspiration from MAS or something else, but it depends if you want a regularly occurring series or a special creation now and then. Also maybe giving Pinkie some pep, and maybe make her a little bouncy. But All I can see bouncing might be her cheek/chin which would be weird lol(it could be funny though or unique). Also their rumps might be too distinct(look a little bulging almost I guess, more so when its up closer but maybe that's how you prefer the style) and the chests might need to be smoother(the lines more so than the overall shape). It mostly depends what sorta style or thing you are going for for the levels of exaggeration of body language, but also the character's personality.

Also Twilight's horn looks a little off to me but that might be how you want it idk. Maybe compare different unicorns to see if thats how you really want it. And take this with some salt, idk if I'm too harsh or if you want a harsh criticism or etc. I have no experience with art production myself, only with viewing art sometimes(have like 5k mostly fan art images in my folder I downloaded).

I am going to redraw all the characters to make them more balanced and all around more correctly drawn with more thin lines and more expressive faces.  Any ways I can make the eyes look better?

[Lil Pip 775]

LaserPewPew, on 24 Jun 2016 - 4:08 PM, said:LaserPewPew, on 24 Jun 2016 - 4:08 PM, said:

I am going to redraw all the characters to make them more balanced and all around more correctly drawn with more thin lines and more expressive faces.  Any ways I can make the eyes look better?

Well judging from memory if someone is angry their pupils and irises will get smaller usually for the art to emphasize such then, or if they are shocked, either way its them hyper focusing on one detail is the cause of it, it shows their attention is entirely focused on said detail. But Also say for Rarity just imagine her expression of disgust or indignation or when someone declines her and she is desperate or can't deal with it or gets flustered, but her pupils wouldn't be as small as say someone who just is raging out but they would be smaller than a calm perspective. Also what comes to mind is when Starlight Glimmer is making her bitch face, if I recall the outer top corners of the eyes move up a little during that because its sorta disbelief thrown into the whole thing, which is when people open their eyes/eyelids more. Also cute or happy ponies have larger pupils like when Pinkie is excited over Dash's first rainboom or such. Also if you make one pupil larger than the other it could be a sign of distance from the angle viewed or it could be a sign of loopy-ness or brain damage or something used for humorous purposes if more of a size difference. Also a face will have more wrinkles the more conflict one is feeling, like furred eyebrows or extreme distaste. Buuut just in case I'm wrong I'll find examples.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ze0-cQVVaGE/maxresdefault.jpg starlight raging

https://derpicdn.net/img/2012/12/19/187223/full.gif Large pupils probably due to imprinting from the situation

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/c/cd/Pinkie_Pie_excited_smile_S4E09.png/revision/latest?cb=20140113100317 When pinkie is excited from something happening outside of her

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/0/02/Pinkie_Pie_too_excited_to_sleep_S5E13.png/revision/20150713202437 is excited over something internal and more disjointed from reality the pupils are smaller, also applejack's expression is like really? or *annoyed*

But different artists or writers might have different philosophies or ideas involving it.

http://img05.deviantart.net/b1cc/i/2012/285/5/d/rarity_cornered_by_myardius-d5hk6id.png rarity

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/tDz9-2CG7xI/maxresdefault.jpg some more rarity

If you compare some to Fluttershy Fluttershy has larger pupils in general, presumably because she is more thoughtful in regards to others, except when she freaks out at the gala.

http://img03.deviantart.net/10db/i/2012/091/f/4/fluttershy_rage_by_thebronygamer-d4ulyj1.png (also might wanna look up gifs of said expressions to see their transition which could be just as important as the end expression, which is because if you understand the expressions its prolly easier to imitate and easier to come up with new ones, or transitions of emotions or mixed expressions etc) which is when she is detached from reality the most probably. Or its just something about the character herself

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/d/d7/Fluttershy_is_angry_S2E19.png/revision/latest?cb=20120306230149

 

But now to move onto how different art styles choose to express, or have a standard for themselves. I mean honestly you could just compare stuff yourself to what others have done but since you are redrawing it um I have no need to compare it to your animation again. Just be organized about it, like you have a storyboard and you want to convey an expression so you need to google how others convey it or if you want to try your own style of expressing the emotion. Or like lets take something not pony related at all like Rick n Morty, small pupils is an art style choice keeping characters simple so they are easier to work with, but ponies naturally have more facial expressions and larger pupils I suppose. But when you go and watch Pika Petey's stuff like a heart for sweetie belle Button n Sweetie have large pupils looking at each other, when she gasps for air because the brony is hugging her too close her pupils are small. It might have to do with level of sociability at the moment for how they are feeling or she is well panicking lol. But also quickly changing pupils is probably um more for comedy or just to show an emotional transition, not just comedy.

 

Also like look at Tree Hugger, you can tell the smooth of her expression shows she is mellow, and how her eyes are partially lidded shows she is sorta high behaving stereotypical etc. Also if a pony is shocked surprised confused trying to understand and in disbelief sorta set of emotions they may raise an eyebrow and smaller pupils and lower the other eyebrow.

 

But idk saying too much usually means its harder to remember any one detail over others I mention, so if you need to focus on something focus on just the naturality of the animation. Like its fluid, its not rigid, its expressive not mechanical. Depends on context though and facial features of the ponies which then further also depends on art style.

 

Now I'll just google other arts and share some to simply just show the art styles with emphasis on the eyes because there are probably some aspects to it I am not seeing.

http://img15.deviantart.net/5bc1/i/2014/308/9/8/shining_math_by_underpable-d85bmb8.png

http://orig03.deviantart.net/f97d/f/2015/333/a/d/stop_bugging_me_by_underpable-d9igzxt.png

http://pre15.deviantart.net/3252/th/pre/f/2015/283/4/9/ponytails_pinkie_by_iopichio-d9cl797.jpg

http://img08.deviantart.net/2e53/i/2012/096/3/d/chicken_by_iopichio-d4v895q.jpg also to show you don't need to conform with your art to be a decent artist

http://pre02.deviantart.net/47a4/th/pre/i/2012/188/6/1/twilight_reads_a_book_by_iopichio-d56d7jq.jpg

http://pre08.deviantart.net/ffd7/th/pre/i/2012/295/4/c/papercut_by_iopichio-d5imode.jpg

http://eponsafe.tumblr.com/image/135213117434

http://orig15.deviantart.net/a37a/f/2014/298/6/8/rarijack_daily_9_9_14__big_sisters_by_whitediamondsltd-d841zym.png

http://65.media.tumblr.com/491f08ca03fe7a3dc9f42c83723a31f8/tumblr_nf4kpdAKmA1tlqckyo1_500.png

https://derpicdn.net/img/2015/6/26/923888/thumb.png

 

Showing several of most of the artists I'm showing to show how their styles keep up with different facial expressions.

Then with animations like, look up animatics or animations like the Jekyl and Hide Pinkamena/Pinkie one, or how applejack won the war. Then mentally advanced series has its own style too, and a different approach to what sort of animations they do. So I think art style depends on context, or well whatever you can do that's good. And mentally advanced series (the ones with negative numbers) are animations that are improving over time so he sorta developed his own style in order to produce those. And his animations do reuse certain expressions or postures or share ears between different ponies just of different colors that sorta deal. So if you can take some tips that series would be a great one, they have facial expressions, body language. Just it takes more time to get all those down in order to animate with it more consistently and then if you think of a better way to do it it'll take longer. Now if you wanna do it like Pika Petey that takes patience too but each style is sorta fluid and unique but take longer to produce probably. And even then for say Rainbow Dash Presents Star in Yellow Greg says in one of his talks he had other animators and playwrites or whatnot. So animation isn't just about appearances you need to know what you are doing then mold the animation around it, but anything is better than nothing and reinventing a whole art style every time your animations change moods is going to be time-consuming and sorta detract from wanting to do this I think, overall its up to you to settle where you want to go. If the style you were using you enjoyed then sure continue it just make it more lively somehow and make small changes to it or you are going to feel inconsistent from doing reworks repeatedly. But if you are set on doing a rework, take your time with it and plan it all out so when it is ready its going to continue being good and not need as much tweaking here n there.

 

I hope this isn't excessive lol. Good luck also.

Edited June 24, 2016 by Lil Pip

[HoovesOnIce 74]

Well judging from memory if someone is angry their pupils and irises will get smaller usually for the art to emphasize such then, or if they are shocked, either way its them hyper focusing on one detail is the cause of it, it shows their attention is entirely focused on said detail. But Also say for Rarity just imagine her expression of disgust or indignation or when someone declines her and she is desperate or can't deal with it or gets flustered, but her pupils wouldn't be as small as say someone who just is raging out but they would be smaller than a calm perspective. Also what comes to mind is when Starlight Glimmer is making her bitch face, if I recall the outer top corners of the eyes move up a little during that because its sorta disbelief thrown into the whole thing, which is when people open their eyes/eyelids more. Also cute or happy ponies have larger pupils like when Pinkie is excited over Dash's first rainboom or such. Also if you make one pupil larger than the other it could be a sign of distance from the angle viewed or it could be a sign of loopy-ness or brain damage or something used for humorous purposes if more of a size difference. Also a face will have more wrinkles the more conflict one is feeling, like furred eyebrows or extreme distaste. Buuut just in case I'm wrong I'll find examples.

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/Ze0-cQVVaGE/maxresdefault.jpg starlight raging

https://derpicdn.net/img/2012/12/19/187223/full.gif Large pupils probably due to imprinting from the situation

http://vignette1.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/c/cd/Pinkie_Pie_excited_smile_S4E09.png/revision/latest?cb=20140113100317 When pinkie is excited from something happening outside of her

http://vignette4.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/0/02/Pinkie_Pie_too_excited_to_sleep_S5E13.png/revision/20150713202437 is excited over something internal and more disjointed from reality the pupils are smaller, also applejack's expression is like really? or *annoyed*

But different artists or writers might have different philosophies or ideas involving it.

http://img05.deviantart.net/b1cc/i/2012/285/5/d/rarity_cornered_by_myardius-d5hk6id.png rarity

https://i.ytimg.com/vi/tDz9-2CG7xI/maxresdefault.jpg some more rarity

If you compare some to Fluttershy Fluttershy has larger pupils in general, presumably because she is more thoughtful in regards to others, except when she freaks out at the gala.

http://img03.deviantart.net/10db/i/2012/091/f/4/fluttershy_rage_by_thebronygamer-d4ulyj1.png (also might wanna look up gifs of said expressions to see their transition which could be just as important as the end expression, which is because if you understand the expressions its prolly easier to imitate and easier to come up with new ones, or transitions of emotions or mixed expressions etc) which is when she is detached from reality the most probably. Or its just something about the character herself

http://vignette2.wikia.nocookie.net/mlp/images/d/d7/Fluttershy_is_angry_S2E19.png/revision/latest?cb=20120306230149

 

But now to move onto how different art styles choose to express, or have a standard for themselves. I mean honestly you could just compare stuff yourself to what others have done but since you are redrawing it um I have no need to compare it to your animation again. Just be organized about it, like you have a storyboard and you want to convey an expression so you need to google how others convey it or if you want to try your own style of expressing the emotion. Or like lets take something not pony related at all like Rick n Morty, small pupils is an art style choice keeping characters simple so they are easier to work with, but ponies naturally have more facial expressions and larger pupils I suppose. But when you go and watch Pika Petey's stuff like a heart for sweetie belle Button n Sweetie have large pupils looking at each other, when she gasps for air because the brony is hugging her too close her pupils are small. It might have to do with level of sociability at the moment for how they are feeling or she is well panicking lol. But also quickly changing pupils is probably um more for comedy or just to show an emotional transition, not just comedy.

 

Also like look at Tree Hugger, you can tell the smooth of her expression shows she is mellow, and how her eyes are partially lidded shows she is sorta high behaving stereotypical etc. Also if a pony is shocked surprised confused trying to understand and in disbelief sorta set of emotions they may raise an eyebrow and smaller pupils and lower the other eyebrow.

 

But idk saying too much usually means its harder to remember any one detail over others I mention, so if you need to focus on something focus on just the naturality of the animation. Like its fluid, its not rigid, its expressive not mechanical. Depends on context though and facial features of the ponies which then further also depends on art style.

 

Now I'll just google other arts and share some to simply just show the art styles with emphasis on the eyes because there are probably some aspects to it I am not seeing.

http://img15.deviantart.net/5bc1/i/2014/308/9/8/shining_math_by_underpable-d85bmb8.png

http://orig03.deviantart.net/f97d/f/2015/333/a/d/stop_bugging_me_by_underpable-d9igzxt.png

http://pre15.deviantart.net/3252/th/pre/f/2015/283/4/9/ponytails_pinkie_by_iopichio-d9cl797.jpg

http://img08.deviantart.net/2e53/i/2012/096/3/d/chicken_by_iopichio-d4v895q.jpg also to show you don't need to conform with your art to be a decent artist

http://pre02.deviantart.net/47a4/th/pre/i/2012/188/6/1/twilight_reads_a_book_by_iopichio-d56d7jq.jpg

http://pre08.deviantart.net/ffd7/th/pre/i/2012/295/4/c/papercut_by_iopichio-d5imode.jpg

http://eponsafe.tumblr.com/image/135213117434

http://orig15.deviantart.net/a37a/f/2014/298/6/8/rarijack_daily_9_9_14__big_sisters_by_whitediamondsltd-d841zym.png

http://65.media.tumblr.com/491f08ca03fe7a3dc9f42c83723a31f8/tumblr_nf4kpdAKmA1tlqckyo1_500.png

https://derpicdn.net/img/2015/6/26/923888/thumb.png

 

Showing several of most of the artists I'm showing to show how their styles keep up with different facial expressions.

Then with animations like, look up animatics or animations like the Jekyl and Hide Pinkamena/Pinkie one, or how applejack won the war. Then mentally advanced series has its own style too, and a different approach to what sort of animations they do. So I think art style depends on context, or well whatever you can do that's good. And mentally advanced series (the ones with negative numbers) are animations that are improving over time so he sorta developed his own style in order to produce those. And his animations do reuse certain expressions or postures or share ears between different ponies just of different colors that sorta deal. So if you can take some tips that series would be a great one, they have facial expressions, body language. Just it takes more time to get all those down in order to animate with it more consistently and then if you think of a better way to do it it'll take longer. Now if you wanna do it like Pika Petey that takes patience too but each style is sorta fluid and unique but take longer to produce probably. And even then for say Rainbow Dash Presents Star in Yellow Greg says in one of his talks he had other animators and playwrites or whatnot. So animation isn't just about appearances you need to know what you are doing then mold the animation around it, but anything is better than nothing and reinventing a whole art style every time your animations change moods is going to be time-consuming and sorta detract from wanting to do this I think, overall its up to you to settle where you want to go. If the style you were using you enjoyed then sure continue it just make it more lively somehow and make small changes to it or you are going to feel inconsistent from doing reworks repeatedly. But if you are set on doing a rework, take your time with it and plan it all out so when it is ready its going to continue being good and not need as much tweaking here n there.

 

I hope this isn't excessive lol. Good luck also.

I drew up some faces that seem alright. Do they need to be more expressive or less?

 

http://imgur.com/a/CIJtC

[Lil Pip 775]

LaserPewPew, on 25 Jun 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:LaserPewPew, on 25 Jun 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:LaserPewPew, on 25 Jun 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:LaserPewPew, on 25 Jun 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:LaserPewPew, on 25 Jun 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:LaserPewPew, on 25 Jun 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:LaserPewPew, on 25 Jun 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:LaserPewPew, on 25 Jun 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:LaserPewPew, on 25 Jun 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:LaserPewPew, on 25 Jun 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:LaserPewPew, on 25 Jun 2016 - 11:46 AM, said:

I drew up some faces that seem alright. Do they need to be more expressive or less?

 

http://imgur.com/a/CIJtC

Well it depends on context. First one to me seems like 'I hadn't thought of that before!' or 'But that means!' or '*just realized this person is crazy and don't wanna act like I think they are crazy*'

The second one to me seems like really depressed confusion or awkwardness, or 'idk what you are talking about'. Too expressive I think but depends on context. Maybe angry over something but seems distracted and helpless.

The third looks like their puppy just died and they have a hard time expressing anything relating to it because its just sad and its confusing to process the pain of the sad, and might want comfort from others.

The fourth looks like it could be sarcastic happiness(which could be good for satire) or them being surprised happily by something while say gasping like Pinkie then proceeding to talk about whatever they saw or interact with whatever they saw etc, or like 'hey, that's actually a good idea!'.

Also wanna say the thumbnail of your video, that face seems to me like talking at the same time remembering something based on what the other person just spoke about and not making eye contact as they remember whatever it is they're remembering, and are generally happy but maybe very slightly unsure as to the credibility of what the one they are talking to said(or they think they're silly) but are still enjoying time with them. Or maybe even thinks they need to change and are having humor at the ridiculousness but still pushing for sociability.

All imo, grains of salt etc.

Edited June 25, 2016 by Lil Pip