Is it time to give Starlight the boot?

[ManaMinori 4,143]

Fool me once, shame on you. Fool be twice, its time to shoo.

 

Seriously! I think she needs the same treatment as Trixie, which is getting run out of Ponyville. Or at the least, Twi stripping her of the priveledge of being her student, and making her leave the castle (like Sunbutt did to Sunset Shimmer)., and Twi gets to try again with a new student, who is warmer toward the idea of friendship without magical abuse and mind control shenanegans.

 

Starlight has mind controlled ponies to get them to do what she wanted a total of three times now- once in "our town", the second time was with Big Mac to get him to talk, and the third with the RM5, behind Twilight's back.

 

When Sunbutt learned that Twilight had mind controlled the town, Twilight was disciplined and knew better than to do it again. When Sunset mind controlled a school (granted, she actually had the excuse of being evil to fall back on, unlike Twilight or SG), she NEVER did it again. But Starlight? Nope. She KEEPS ON doing it, in spite of not having the excuse of being evil, and in spite of knowing better.

 

Should her three strikes be it for her?

Should her word of forgiveness be taken seriously, with what we see of her track record of using magic to bend others to her will?

Does this prove that Sunset Shimmer -who learned her lesson after the first screw up, and genuinely repented, is a better pony than Starlight?

[Octavia_Melody2 187]

I don't know what the writers are thinking. Starlight and Discord both carry on with their same old shenanigans and manipulation even thought they're supposed to be reformed and sympathetic now.

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,234]

I sorta agree here. Starlight is messing up so much that while I don't think she should be ran out of Ponyville, she needs some stricter guidelines. The latest episode was straight up mind control and we saw the results the last time she sorta did that. There needs to be restrictions with what she can do. It is a shame because I sorta like the concept of Starlight, I think she can be a great subject for friendship itself and with that being the theme of the entire show, it should work, but so far I am just not convinced about her.

[Chrylestia600 1,307]

Ugh. For the life of me I don't understand people's gripes about Starlight. Yes, she seems to use mind control a lot to get what she wants. Yes, she's flawed. But why in the world are these things such a huge problems, that people seem to think she deserves some huge punishment, or that she doesn't deserve forgiveness, etc, etc, etc?

 

Starlight seems to be actually DIFFERENT in that she's not the usual, 'I was a villain, but now I'm sorry and I'm reformed, and from now on I'll never make any more mistakes.' The fact that she's got issues she needs to work on makes her interesting, at least to me. And take people in real life, for instance- a lot of people make mistakes and try to correct them, but then find that they make that same mistake again. If Starlight is used to getting what she wants any way she wants, it's a cycle she needs to break, yes, but it's not necessarily something she can just up and fix the first time she happens to mess up. She was a VILLAIN, for pity sake. You can't always necessarily completely change your mindset just because you're trying to be good. I also don't understand why people nitpick Starlight because of the mind control thing she keeps doing, but everyone else who's made mistakes gets a pass just because they don't keep making the same one.

 

I also highly, HIGHLY disagree with anyone who says Starlight doesn't deserve forgiveness because of what she's done. That's beyond ridiculous. Sometimes I feel like people who just don't like Starlight are finding excuses to hate on her, and that if a more famous character did things that were even worse, people wouldn't be ready to jump on them for it.

 

One last thing. As I sort of said above, I personally like the fact that Starlight is different in that she's not instantly perfect after becoming reformed, is quite flawed, is having a harder time adjusting to said reformation. It makes her stand out.

 

Just my opinions. Rant over.

Edited September 26, 2016 by Chrylestia600

[Whirlwind 1,047]

I think Starlight Glimmer is just a poorly written character. She probably does deserve the "boot"

But It was since her reformation where she started to be forced into the show

[Chrylestia600 1,307]

I think Starlight Glimmer is just a poorly written character. She probably does deserve the "boot"

But It was since her reformation where she started to be forced into the show

And, might I ask, WHY is she a poorly written character, exactly?

[Whirlwind 1,047]

The character design (post reformation) is too similar to Sunset Shimmer but worse.

So it's like the writers were a bit lazy on that.

 

She also seems to be a very hollow character now. Even though we already know she likes magic. 

But even when she was a villain the writers had many opportunities to give her a real meaning of acceptance from Twilight Sparkle and since season 6

the writers are just coming up with such bland development that she sort of cheats her way through friendship (for now). 

Chrylestia600 Edited September 26, 2016 by Captain Whirlwind

[FlareGun45 2,221]

I dunno why the hate on Starlight messing up. We've seen the Mane Six screw up so many times before! Especially Spike, and even the CMCs, Big Mac, and even Luna screwed up sometimes!

 

Spike is the best example for your complaint: he messed up the same times over and over again before season 6, and now look how better he's gotten! Starlight's still new, and I'm sure she'll improve! Ya gotta give the crew a chance. I'm sure it's not gonna take 5 seasons to make Starlight better!

[Chrylestia600 1,307]

The character design (post reformation) is too similar to Sunset Shimmer but worse.

So it's like the writers were a bit lazy on that.

 

She also seems to be a very hollow character now. Even though we already know she likes magic.

But even when she was a villain the writers had many opportunities to give her a real meaning of acceptance from Twilight Sparkle and since season 6

the writers are just coming up with such bland development that she sort of cheats her way through friendship (for now).

 

Chrylestia600

I hear people say her design is too similar to Sunset Shimmer all the time, and like most complaints I hear about Starlight, I don't understand it. Might I point out that Starlight's very first mane style is totally different than Sunset's? Also, what do you mean by 'but worse'? And for the record, you might consider that maybe it's just getting a bit difficult to make tons and tons of unique pony designs. It may not be a case of being lazy.

 

I guess it all comes down to opinions. Sure, the writers had opportunities that they should have taken when they had the chance and didn't, so I won't defend that. But believing Starlight to be a hollow character is more opinion-based than fact-based. Any character who hasn't had a sufficient amount of time to really grow or develop might seem hollow or dull (though I personally don't share that belief in the case of Starlight) but that can really change once said character gets more material to work with.

 

How does one 'cheat' through friendship?

Edited September 26, 2016 by Chrylestia600

[Jangocoolguy 433]

Not so much "the boot" as she needs to be punished or made to face the consequnces of her actions. She's done all kinds of reprehensible things, and gets off easy. Even the ponies from the Town forgave her in seconds!

 

I know they want to teach kids about forgiveness...but it's also showing them that you can get away with anything as long as you apologize...<_<

[Ashen Pathfinder 16,151]

As it stands I fail to see the justification for wanting to give Starlight the boot. She's a flawed character dealing with past demons and learning new concepts while living in a sympathetic society. Honestly, these flaws are among the reasons I find her interesting; even moreso than Discord at this point.

 

I mean I get why people have issues with her, but to me, that's a bit of an overreaction. :/

[Chrylestia600 1,307]

As it stands I fail to see the justification for wanting to give Starlight the boot. She's a flawed character dealing with past demons and learning new concepts while living in a sympathetic society. Honestly, these flaws are among the reasons I find her interesting; even moreso than Discord at this point.

 

I mean I get why people have issues with her, but to me, that's a bit of an overreaction. :/

Thank you for this.

 

That pretty much sums up everything I've been trying to say. 'Giving Starlight the boot' is extreme and unjustified. And I wholeheartedly agree; her flaws are among what make her an interesting character.

[Mesme Rize 15,681]

Starlight has 2 big flaws that make her interesting:

 

1. Starlight is not really aware when she did something and sees the consequences in it. Yes, it might not have been nice what she did, but she never did these things in an evil way.

 

2. She is very vulnerable at some of the most easiests of tasks. I have seen people in their 30s and 40s who have a very hard time and get stressed with even the simplest of things and some of them are actually very smart people, just like Starlight.

 

Teaching these skills take time, so you gotta be patient with Starlight. You just don't give somebody the boot, just because he is a bit difficult and dosen't understand for what.

[GeekySonic 1,150]

It can be hard to learn. On one hand, Twilight is very forgiving (except for that Discord episode). I imagine that she's not the type of teacher that gives the boot to students who keep messing up. A good teacher finds out WHY their student is messing up, and helps them fix it.

 

In this case, Starlight simply didn't see what she was doing as wrong. She manipulated an entire village for probably most of her adult life until season 5. She might not have even thought that was so bad.

 

Sure, she apologized. For holding a grudge, trying to ruin Twilight’s life, and forcing her ideology onto others. Who's to say that she ever thought of mind-control as bad? I'm guessing she was on her own and self-taught/driven ever since she got her cutie mark.

 

Like my man Coolio says, "They say I've got to learn, but nobody's here to teach me, if they can't understand it, how can they reach me?"

[flutterbard 55]

Starlight has only ever had ONE friend before becoming Twilight's student, and that friend was magically inclined like her. She didn't know what would happen if she wasn't good at the things her friends were good at. 

 

Discord has similar flaws because he's new to friendship, yet he's still a beloved character, so why are we bashing Starlight?

[Thrond 3,257]

I don't think removing her from the show would be the right way to go. She's ostensibly still learning, and having her come to more appreciate the value of friendship might be the next major step to her finally not only realizing she did something wrong, but actually learning from her mistakes and growing as a person. In addition, on a "three strikes" rule, she's only on strike two since her reformation. I like that this dark side is so overwhelming with her, as it makes her a particularly complex character, and I think it really paves the way for strong character development. 

 

But... at this point, I wouldn't miss her if she left after this season. I think she has potential, and I admire her on paper, but I'm finding her harder and harder to defend. I don't think she's a poorly-written character like many say - the fact that she's causing problems like the mind control in "Every Little Thing She Does" is clearly intentional, and I think that makes her rather different from Sunset Shimmer. But I'm losing my will to defend her, and mostly that comes down to the writers not really giving her any real redeeming qualities. At best, she's a more sociopathic Twilight Sparkle, and like the current Twilight characterization, that doesn't amount to a whole lot interesting. I just want to have some reason to care about her - some sort of good quality that makes it easier to put up with her acting so alarmingly. I have reason to believe that we'll see more of that in the future... but after this episode, my opinion of her is a little tainted. 

[Unlikeable Pony 2,698]

I think Starlight Glimmer is just a poorly written character. She probably does deserve the "boot"

But It was since her reformation where she started to be forced into the show

Agreed so hard.

Sadly, I get the impression that we'll see alot more of her in S7.

[Twilight Frost 271]

I don't see what everypony's problem is. Some people are just like that. Sometimes people make the same mistakes over and over again before it finally sinks in that what they are doing is wrong. It just takes time and enough times of doing the same mistake and learning and having that lesson drilled into their heads over and over again for them to finally realize the problem. 

 

You see, the thing is that while they know in their subconsciousness that what they are doing is wrong, they are not actively thinking about what they are doing at the time. They are simply falling into a sort of habit or programmed routine that they have done in order to solve a problem. Much like a drug habit in fact! They don't think about what is going to happen or why they are going to take the drugs, they just know that X has happened or is causing a situation and therefor Y is the solution and you need to do Z to do it.

 

For Starlight all she has ever known her entire life is Magic magic MAGIC! She has never once talked to other ponies since she got her cutie mark or rather she never had friends or conversations with with. She has lived an entire life by herself in her own little world of only magic which is why she is more powerful than twilight in a lot of respects, even though she is only a unicorn and twilight is an alicorn.

 

So, if we follow the formula I just presented to you from before we have

 

X ( She has a problem that involves ponies ) + Y ( The Solution would be for her to take control of the situation) = Z ( Mind Control or manipulation is needed to take control of the situation to solve the problem so the problem no longer exists) 

 

It is only until she realizes that this formula is what is causing her to lose out on friendship problems and is prohibiting her social progress as a mentally healthy pony will she ever be able to break free from the subconscious programmed routine that she falls into when X happens. 

 

Currently she only realizes Z is the problem when an external source shows her the retrospect. 

 

The writers are really quite brilliant for designing characters this well thought out and life like! 

[ParadoxicalOutcome 44]

This being repeated over and over again is really starting to become annoying...

 

So, people think for some reason Sunset's reformation is better? Let's see what happened to Sunset;

 

She got blasted in the face by a rainbow, did a 180 spin on her personality, and suddenly turned from spiteful and jealous to crying and sorry in 3 minutes. After that, suddenly she's the definition of good, a perfect angel that never makes any mistakes, and mistakes that she looked like she did was always for the better and ended up helping somehow, and she's just misunderstood and noone wants to forgive her, oh, and SHE NEVER MAKES ANY MISTAKES. And then in the next two films, the other six fail both times and she ends up saving the day by herself, and succeds in it because she never makes any mistakes and the writers need to hammer in the fact that she was reformed.

 

People don't just spin around like that. If a person has gone most of their life using magic for everything from getting out of bed to making friends, they are not going to stop doing that just because someone told them not to once. She was never taught that mind controlling others was a bad thing, and you don't just completely change someone's habits and personality. It's been demonstrated clearly before that using magic to solve a problem with her relationship to another is basocally how she solved problens most of her life, so I don't see the problem. This, in my opinion, is not a flaw, but a strength in her reformation that she shares with Discord (Who everyone adores despite having done worse than Starlight repetedly and actually turning on the mane 6 once).

Edited September 26, 2016 by ParadoxicalOutcome

[Professional Horse 94]

I like Starlight quite a bit (most of the time), but at this point I hope she leaves after this season's finale. Quite a few people don't like her and she hasn't been handled as well as she should've been (the flashback scene in the S5 finale with Sunburst was awful and ruined the ending, for example). And to be honest, I think that might happen. The finale will be her trial by fire and once she passes it, she can move on.

 

And why the hell do people keep demanding that redeemable villains are punished in a show where forgiveness is one of the central themes? Is it an american thing, ingrained into the culture? Don't you guys still use capital punishment?

Edited September 26, 2016 by Professional Horse

[RealityPublishing 323]

You know what would be a great card for Hasbro to pull? 

 

Starlight was playing Twilight the entire time. 

 

It explains everything! Why Starlight is oblivious to her problems caused in the past. Why she prefers not to make friends or deal with them (because she doesn't want to become too attached). Not to mention she could easily overpower Twilight in a fight. With that in mind, why is Starlight here again? 

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

 

 

SHE NEVER MAKES ANY MISTAKES

THIS.  Sunset is a saint after EQ 1. Starlight is a reformed criminal, has a hard time to live as normal person   I prefer the latter. Stories about saints are boring to me, i choose "A Clockwork Orange", i think you understand what i mean. 

[Mesme Rize 15,681]

THIS.  Sunset is a saint after EQ 1. Starlight is a reformed criminal, has a hard time to live as normal person   I prefer the latter. Stories about saints are boring to me, i choose "A Clockwork Orange", i think you understand what i mean. 

 

Not to go too off-topic here, but i love your Clockwork Orange analogy, considering it's one of my favorite books and movies.

[Victoria Sponge 1,014]

I like her as a character so I'm fine with her sticking about.

[Wind Chaser 4,767]

It's good that Starlight makes mistakes. Otherwise there'd be no conflict and little character growth. Starlight has as little right to be a perfect character as anyone else in this show. One of the biggest themes of the show is learning from your mistakes. If there's really any criticism I could give it, it's that Twilight needs to be more firm with Starlight and not give her any sense of privilege or immunity in terms of her status as a royal student.

 

People really let their distaste for this character really cloud their judgment of this show. Most of what was okay for Twilight in Season 1 seems like an aberration now that Starlight does it. She's only taking on the same outsider's role to friendship that Twilight was early on in the series. Where's all the complaining about Twilight getting off easy for using mind control back in "Lesson Zero"?