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Magic in this show is stupid


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Twilight and Starlight both seem to have a specific special talent in "Magic". They've both devoted their lives to studying, learning and practicing it and it's various uses. Most unicorns don't have a special talent for magic specifically, most of them aren't spending their whole lives studying and learning about it. 

 

 The majority of unicorns probably just learn what they want to, or what's useful for their goals in life, and not much else. Like how Trixie's talent is with stage magic, which she is very good at, but not nearly as good at "Real" magic.

 

 Not everypony can or wants to be really good at magic, just like how not every pegasus can or wants to be good enough to get into the Wonderbolts.

Edited by BasementGlimmer
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Twilight and Starlight both seem to have a specific special talent in "Magic". They've both devoted their lives to studying, learning and practicing it and it's various uses. Most unicorns don't have a special talent for magic specifically, most of them aren't spending their whole lives studying and learning about it. 

 

 The majority of unicorns probably just learn what they want to, or what's useful for their goals in life, and not much else. Like how Trixie's talent is with stage magic, which she is very good at, but not nearly as good at "Real" magic.

 

 Not everypony can or wants to be really good at magic, just like how not every pegasus can or wants to be good enough to get into the Wonderbolts.

 

This show doesn't have any rules for magic, it was never thought through. Twilight and her little copy-cat can literally do everything with no limits, there are no rules in place because the writers just make it up as they go along.  Don't even get me started on "stage magic". 

 

If I could improve the magic lore in any way, I would get rid of "special talent in magic itself bullshit" and "Twilight/Twiclone are endlessly better than everyone at magic." 

 

Instead of Twilight being absurdly overpowered beyond reason, she could use and combine different artifacts and potions for magic. We could rely more on the strengths of others.

Edited by 1CJB
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This show doesn't have any rules for magic, it was never thought through. Twilight and her little copy-cat can literally do everything with no limits, there are no rules in place because the writers just make it up as they go along.  Don't even get me started on "stage magic". 
 

 

 Most of the time, their "Limitless" magic means nothing to the plot, in slice of life stories, their magical powers usually aren't treated as that important. In the more large-scale action episodes, this also doesn't make a difference if they're facing off against opponents that are powerful or smart enough to deal with their magical powers, which is usually the case.

 

 

 

If I could improve the magic lore in any way, I would get rid of "special talent in magic itself bullshit" and "Twilight/Twiclone are endlessly better than everyone at magic."

 

 

"Better than everyone else" okay, so that's why Unicorn Twilight still failed to beat Alicorn Amulet Trixie until she used her brain instead of magic? Even super pumped up on magic Twilight wasn't able to beat Tirek. Heck, in the Alicorn Amulet episode I mentioned, Twilight couldn't even pull off an age spell, saying it was only for the highest level unicorns, implying she wasn't one of said "Highest level".

 

 That could have changed now that she's an Alicorn, but that still means there are other unicorns just as powerful. Twilight and Starlight are likely not the only ones with cutie mark's in Magic.

 

 

 

Instead of Twilight being absurdly overpowered beyond reason,

 

 

If Twilight was absurdly overpowered, she would never fail. Which she does.

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"Better than everyone else"
 

 

It's not just that, they are endlessly better than everyone. The gap is absurdly large, and the only time Twilight's magic doesn't solve everything is because of some contrived reason for the story.

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It's not just that, they are endlessly better than everyone. The gap is absurdly large, and the only time Twilight's magic doesn't solve everything is because of some contrived reason for the story.

 

 First of all, this is not Dragon Ball Z. Power levels are not the most important thing here. Twilight has super powerful magic, cool. Doesn't mean she can design great dresses like Rarity, throw an awesome party like Pinkie, create a Sonic Rainboom like Rainbow Dash, or run a farm as well as Applejack.

 

 A trained Royal Guard is probably a better fighter than a gardener with no training, which is a very useful skill to have. But in a show like this, where half the time we have Friendship problems and Slice of life stories, the trained guard is not always the most important. The gardener can be useful and great as well.

 

 Also, if Twilight is really the best, why couldn't she beat Tirek? Why couldn't she beat Discord? Why couldn't she beat Chrysalis, or Sombra? Most of the villains she's required the help of her friends, the Elements or Rainbow Power, or something else to beat the bad guy. If the villains can still challenge her, why does it matter that she's so powerful?

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 First of all, this is not Dragon Ball Z. Power levels are not the most important thing here. Twilight has super powerful magic, cool. Doesn't mean she can design great dresses like Rarity, throw an awesome party like Pinkie, create a Sonic Rainboom like Rainbow Dash, or run a farm as well as Applejack.

 

 A trained Royal Guard is probably a better fighter than a gardener with no training, which is a very useful skill to have. But in a show like this, where half the time we have Friendship problems and Slice of life stories, the trained guard is not always the most important. The gardener can be useful and great as well.

 

 Also, if Twilight is really the best, why couldn't she beat Tirek? Why couldn't she beat Discord? Why couldn't she beat Chrysalis, or Sombra? Most of the villains she's required the help of her friends, the Elements or Rainbow Power, or something else to beat the bad guy. If the villains can still challenge her, why does it matter that she's so powerful?

 

You're asking me why Twilight isn't always able to defeat the villain without help, and I already answered that. Her unlimited bullshit magic ends where the plot demands it. This isn't good writing.

Like I said earlier, they could have had Twilight not be a total mary sue when it comes to power, and rely more on the strengths of others. 

 

"create a Sonic Rainboom like Rainbow Dash"

 

See Starlight Glimmer, then come back and tell me I'm wrong. She can move and fly faster than Rainbow Dash.

Edited by 1CJB
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You're asking me why Twilight isn't always able to defeat the villain without help, and I already answered that. Her unlimited bullshit magic ends where the plot demands it. This isn't good writing.

 

I'll give it to you that the exact limit of magical power is not well-defined in this show. It could definitely do with a bit of better defining.

 

 That said, when's it ever been stated that her power is "Limitless"? The magic in this show is certainly loose, and as it's gone on she's been able to do more and more with it. Changing objects, teleporting vast distances, etc. All stuff she wasn't fully able to do at the start. But if other characters still have the power to match or counter her in some way or another, I don't feel like this makes her "Overpowered".

 

 I don't think Twilight or anypony else necessarily needs to be made weaker, even if the rules could do with being better defined. 

Edited by BasementGlimmer
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I'll give it to you that the exact limit of magical power is not well-defined in this show.

 

It's not defined at all, there is no logic or structure when it comes to magic in this show. And yes, I mean logic when it comes to magic. I've read stories where it's written infinitely better. I don't care about magic at all in this show, it's all made up on the fly with no rules as to what you can and can't do with it.  If the writers don't care, why should I care?

Edited by 1CJB
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It's not defined at all, there is no logic or structure when it comes to magic in this show. And yes, I mean logic when it comes to magic. I've read stories where it's written infinitely better. I don't care about magic at all in this show, it's all made up on the fly with no rules as to what you can and can't do with it. 
 

 

 Yep, you're pretty much right then, the magic in this story isn't nearly the best. I don't fully agree with you, as I do feel you're exaggerating the problem a bit much, but you've got a point. If the story is good, and the villains are still capable of putting up a threat, I'm fine with the loose style of magic the show has.

 

 This is probably because, at least partially, good old horn glowy magic isn't the most important part of the show, usually it's more focused on the "Friendship" stuff.

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Well, Twlight is the element of magic after all, so that at least makes sense. She is also a princess and we know princesses have a good amount of magical power.

 

Starlight is the one I don't understand though. We need a proper explanation for her immense abilities.

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It does annoy me alot, I would love to see Sweetie Belle do some neat magic spells other just telekinesis.

 

One of my headcanons is that Dinky Doo is as powerful with magic as Twilight and Starlight.

 

On a side note, I have realize Twilight should have become a magic teacher instead of a princess. Becuase if you removed any mention of Twilight being a princess, nothing would have been lost. She could have been teaching both young and old unicorns how to use different spells and still hang out with her friends.

Edited by Odd Ball
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Twilight and Starlight are academics who have spent a good portion of their lives studying the art of magic. Just being a unicorn doesn't automatically mean being able to pull off awesome magic with no practice or dedication. Also, many unicorns just don't have the need for it. Rarity is probably well above average in terms of her levitation skills but being able to levitate fabric and even thread a needle, which is amazing precision if you think about it, are relevant skills to her trade, as is gem finding. Transfiguration and crazy energy blasts are not.

 

I liken it to how Rainbow is an insanely fast pegasus, but that doesn't mean all pegasus ponies are able to match her. In fact, few truly can and she's still the only one reported doing a Sonic Rainboom. But that's because she worked hard to become a Wonderbolt and has spent much of her life practicing. Flying may be more of a physical discipline but the principles are the same. Alternatively, Fluttershy really only needs to be able to fly up to feed baby chicks in a tree so she doesn't exactly need to know how to do a Sonic Rainboom.;)

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I'm going to side mostly with , in this debate, while echoing @AlbaTross as well.  However, I've always greatly wished for more lore consistency in all aspects of the show, and magic is no exception.  I don't think it's at all strange, far fetched, a poor writing choice, etc, that two 'light ponies are extremely powerful in magic.  It's their talent, and they've spent their lives largely in pursuit of it.  Some unicorns are bound to have virtually no magical ability, while a few are going to have extreme magical ability, with most being somewhere in the middle, a bit lower than Rarity's skill level.  This is really no different that humans having extreme athletic ability.  Most don't.  Starlight and Twilight are akin to Olympic athletes when it comes to magic.  I don't really see a problem with that.  What I do have a problem with is when magic is contrived to fit the plot.  This is where I agree with @1CJB.  Often times magic is overpowered to fit a particular use, or altogether forgotten to fit the scene.  I've made a running joke on this forum for years that every single problem on this show could be instantly remedied if Twilight remembered that she can use teleportation and telekinesis.  This is an exaggeration, but not far from the truth.  Magic use is regularly omitted just so that other solutions can be found which tell a story and teach a moral.  I'm not sure what the solution to this really is.  I'm not advocating that Twilight just solve everything with magic and never give anypony else a chance.  Every episode would end in 2 seconds that way.  You have to have a story.  I just wish that there was a way to write the magic lore that accounted for this problem.

 

It's worth noting that Twilight becomes physically exhausted after expending a large amount of magical energy.  Magic isn't an infinite use get-out-of-jail-free card.  It takes energy, and rest is required.  And actually, you could find some reasons why magic is sometimes not used if you think about it.  For example, it always bothered me that Twilight didn't use telekinesis to save Rarity in Sonic Rainboom, given that we already knew how buff she was at it from Boast Busters.  Obviously, that would have killed the entire point of the climax, but I'm just saying, from a logical point of view, why wouldn't she do that?  Or friggin' Celestia for that matter?  But it only just occurred to me while writing this post that telekinetics is probably affected by kinetic energy.  Stopping a fast moving object with high kinetic energy is probably extremely difficult.  Twilight lifted the Ursa and water tower from a resting position, and moved them slowly.  They had no initial kinetic energy.  Rarity was falling at (presumably) terminal velocity.  Perhaps stopping something of that mass, moving at that speed, would require such tremendous magical energy that it would have been dangerous to both Twi and Rarity to attempt it.  And it seems that Celestia has never been that great at telekinesis, anyway, so there's that.  In Crystal Empire, Twilight stops herself from a fatal fall, but this was much later, and her magic had improved greatly.  So, there are ways to explain away some of this stuff, but I do wish the lore could be more consistent.

 

If you want to delve even deeper into the subject of telekinetics, it may work a bit like The Will and The Word from The Belgariad, in which every action, including telekinetics, has an equal and opposite reaction, so stopping an object with immense kinetic energy would push back against you the same amount, unless properly countered.  This could mean that it might have been suicide for Twilight or Celestia to stop Rarity's fall unless they could push back the opposite direction on themselves with the same force (and precision timing), something neither might be powerful enough to do.  This is getting pretty out there, and it's not without logic holes, but it's fun to think about.

 

 

I've joked many a time that Twilight's magic is exactly like this:

 

 

 

 

Starlight is the one I don't understand though. We need a proper explanation for her immense abilities.

I disagree.  I don't think we do.  She's just really talented.  That's all the explanation needed.  I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I actually always loved the fact that she was immensely powerful.  It proved that powerful magical ability can come from anywhere, and it's not some gift bestowed upon alicorns, or something that a pony is endowed with upon alicorn transformation, or anything of the sort.  It's just something one is born with, and incredible ability and talent can happen where you least expect it.  To me, saying that we need a proper explanation is akin to saying that we need a proper explanation for why Usain Bolt can run so fast, or Michael Phelps swim so fast.  I mean, yes, there are explanations we can look at--Phelps has longer than average arms, big feet that act like flippers, etc.  But it's all just lucky genetics.  That's all it is with Starlight.  Lucky genetics.  But if you want a little more than that, here's something for you: Starlight's cutie mark is a star with a kind of a swirl around it.  It's my headcanon that she's the descendant of Starswirl the Bearded.

 

Anyway, I don't think a special explanation is needed, but the only problem would be flooding the show with too many powerful unicorns/alicorns, which would cheapen the whole thing.  I think it's alright as is.  Another super sayajin would be too much.

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Not to mention Twilight is the main character.

But such is the nature of magic, friendship, especially when it comes to alicorns. They are best friends when it comes to share rulership.

Most others are inferior, such is life in equestria. Don't worry though, they can always find job growing apples or something.

Edited by They call me Loyalty
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I don't really try to think hard about the way magic works in the show, it only gives me a headache.

Especially how Twilight Sparkle who's special talent is magic, studied in that field every sense she was little, is the former element barer of Magic, went to Celestia's school for gifted unicorns, and has studied under a supposedly powerful ruler of Equestria who can raise and lower the sun, for years, is somehow weaker than some random pony from the middle of nowhere is somehow more powerful in magic than she is.

It makes me feel like Starlight's magical abilities are broken and ultimately the same as a bad OC.

Nothing in her very limited and weak backstory should have indicated her demigod like powers in magic.

Edited by cmarston1
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  It's their talent, and they've spent their lives largely in pursuit of it.  Some unicorns are bound to have virtually no magical ability, while a few are going to have extreme magical ability, with most being somewhere in the middle, a bit lower than Rarity's skill level.  This is really no different that humans having extreme athletic ability. 

 

Nope, don't agree at all. We have two unicorns that can do virtually anything while 99% can hardly do shit. The difference in ability is so absurdly large that it sickens me. 

 

Talent in this show is complete bullshit. I don't buy that Starlight is "just that talented", no fuck that. This is all shit, the lore is handled poorly.

 

 

It makes me feel like Starlight's magical abilities are broken and ultimately the same as a bad OC

 

This 100%. Starlight has the qualities of a bad oc. 

 

 

Most others are inferior

 

Most others are vastly inferior, might as well not exist.

 

 

 

On a side note, I have realize Twilight should have become a magic teacher instead of a princess.

 

 

I can't possibly agree more.

 

 

I disagree.  I don't think we do.  She's just really talented.  That's all the explanation needed.  I know it's an unpopular opinion, but I actually always loved the fact that she was immensely powerful.

 

 

That's a retarded explanation, and I hate it with the fiery passion of a thousand suns. Fuck this explanation. 

 

 

Usain Bolt can run so fast
 

 

Starlight, like Twilight is a thousand times better than 99% of all unicorns out there. Usain Bolt isn't a thousand times faster than everyone. Are you starting to see what I mean by absurd ability?

 

 

lucky genetics
 

 

Magic being determined by dna is beyond retarded.

Edited by 1CJB
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Does anybody else find it stupid that Twilight and her copy can do pretty much everything with magic, while 99% of all unicorns can't do shit? 

I'm pretty sure Twilight doesn't have a copy.

Twilight is an alicorn so there's that and she's been studying her magic all her life and power just got stronger with her friendship. Starlight Glimmer is another unicorn we get to see who's studying magic all her life and is super powerful.

Those are the only ones we really get (I'll talk about rarity in a bit) get to see in combat because that's what we see. We only really ever see Rainbow Dash doing awesome flying stuff, besides the wonderbolts, but does that mean other pegasi can't? No.

 

From what I seen many ponies just don't care about the combat aspect of magic. Rarity is more concerned with fashion, many ponies in canterlot care more about being upper class, etc. The royal guard we don't really see much of them and usually when we do they are not fighting or anything.

 

Rarity fought those dresses in her dream.

 

Yea, so all together I would say we see Twilight and Starlight Glimmer doing everything cuz we really have no purpose to see anypony else doing anything because there are our main characters. Combat is not really important to many ponies especially unicorns since most live in places like Canterlot they care more about being upper class. Everyone has their own special talent and some find it has alot to do with magic and some don't.

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I'm pretty sure Twilight doesn't have a copy.

Twilight is an alicorn so there's that and she's been studying her magic all her life and power just got stronger with her friendship. Starlight Glimmer is another unicorn we get to see who's studying magic all her life and is super powerful.

Those are the only ones we really get (I'll talk about rarity in a bit) get to see in combat because that's what we see. We only really ever see Rainbow Dash doing awesome flying stuff, besides the wonderbolts, but does that mean other pegasi can't? No.

 

From what I seen many ponies just don't care about the combat aspect of magic. Rarity is more concerned with fashion, many ponies in canterlot care more about being upper class, etc. The royal guard we don't really see much of them and usually when we do they are not fighting or anything.

 

Rarity fought those dresses in her dream.

 

Yea, so all together I would say we see Twilight and Starlight Glimmer doing everything cuz we really have no purpose to see anypony else doing anything because there are our main characters. Combat is not really important to many ponies especially unicorns since most live in places like Canterlot they care more about being upper class. Everyone has their own special talent and some find it has alot to do with magic and some don't.

 

All of the magic spell books mean nothing unless you are Twilight or her stupid copy. Fuck talent in this show, I already hate this concept in real life. This show amp's that hatred up to mind-blistering levels. Fuck talent, most everything we do in life is learned, and I believe we can do anything with enough blood, sweat and tears.

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Talent in this show is complete bullshit. I don't buy that Starlight is "just that talented", no fuck that. This is all shit, the lore is handled poorly.

 

 

 

 

 

That's a retarded explanation, and I hate it with the fiery passion of a thousand suns. Fuck this explanation. 

 

 

Magic being determined by dna is beyond retarded.

Forgive my language, but you sound remarkably peeved. That's fine, in and of itself (been there), but you don't need to throw around childish insults like that. You've already made your case.

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Forgive my language, but you sound remarkably peeved. That's fine, in and of itself (been there), but you don't need to throw around childish insults like that. You've already made your case.

 

I haven't insulted anyone, so you and the mods have nothing on me.

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