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Do people hold too high of a standard for MLP?


Limestone-Pie

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I sympathise with you. I really do. So many people around these parts are bashing season 6, and as someone who is more satisfied with season 6 than the prior two seasons, that's really kinda annoying for me. But I don't think it's correct to say that people are "holding too high a standard," as that standard must come from somewhere

 

It seems that over time however that some people have forgotten that it's a kids show at heart. That's why Y7 appears in the corner of every episode after all. Yet some fans, with religious fervor, will go beyond reasonable measures to prove that it somehow isn't. 

Except that's not really what analysts seek to do. Being for a younger audience doesn't exactly make questionable plotting or iffy subtext less frustrating, and being a kids' show can't really excuse occasions where it fails to entertain. 

 

 

Then there are those people I feel may look too deep into the show for messages that don't exist. An common example I see is the season five episode Do Prinesses Dream of Magical Sheep. In this episode Luna is tormented by the Tantabus in her dreams as penance for the Nightmare Moon incident. The moral of the episode basically can be summed up to 'Don't beat yourself up over past events you can't change and move on to make yourself a better person'. At least that's what I got out of it, but some people find another message hidden there. They'll claim it's an allegory for self harm, and it is this manufactured message that has caused people I know to leave the fandom. I personally do not agree that this is what the message of the episode is at all, and is instead a warped one to fit what that specific person wants to believe. Again I direct you to the Y7 rating. I of course am not saying that children's television can't tackle mature subjects, but do you really think that MLP is trying to honestly teach little kids the ramifications of self harm when at this stage in life they wouldn't have even thought about such things? The message is about letting go of the past for those things that weigh on us, a relatable message as I believe we've all done things we've regretted. So there is my point, are people overanylizing a kids shownto the point of seeing things that aren't there?

I like "Newbie Dash," so again I totally sympathise with you here, but I don't think this is a good example. For me at least, it's not that I think the show seeks to talk about self-harm, but that it sets up what are quite clearly serious issues that Luna still has, ones which are probably a huge challenge to overcome. I feel that the climax asking her to just "put it in the past" is similar to telling a depressed person to "get over it" - it's clearly not that easy, and to say that feels, to me, to be dismissive of people with such issues. When I watch this episode, I don't think that Luna has a simple problem of needing to let go of the past. Rather, I think the problems she's facing are much deeper-rooted, and the real-world issues that it most resembles, to me, aren't something that anyone can just choose to "get over." That's why I find the episode offensive. Surely the show can confront mature subjects, but I don't think that subtext is intentional, and I think the writers were very careless when they depicted Luna's character arc that way. 

 

Of course, it doesn't help that I find the episode awfully boring previously - don't really want this show to consist of flat action with bad jokes and pandering callbacks. Princess Big Mac is nowhere near as pandering as the return of Flutterbat. 

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Of course, it doesn't help that I find the episode awfully boring previously - don't really want this show to consist of flat action with bad jokes and pandering callbacks. Princess Big Mac is nowhere near as pandering as the return of Flutterbat. 

 

*gasp*

 

Please don't mention Princess Big Mac, or the somewhat related episode where he "bonds" with Apple Bloom... My mind is still dealing with the aftermath :crackle:

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So here is my proposed question, is it possible to hold unrealistic standards or overanylize a show to the point where you lose enjoyment in it?

 

Probably.  I'm just going with my gut on that answer.  This is actually the only show that I bother to go sign up to a forum to talk with random people about a cartoon show about technicolor equines. I don't do this for any other show so far.  MLP:FIM just ended up being some thing of a small interest to pass time because I found everything else in my life boring (or running away from it, whichever the two). Point is that I don't have a point of reference about comparing how other fans of other shows take their media entertainment seriously or now, but even without checking and venturing to other forums, I would probably hazard a guess that it's a yes.

 

At least these forums are active and interesting to jump in every now and then.

 

 

 

As for anyalyis itself I don't find it inherently wrong to do so. Finding a hidden message in a show is fun, as people saw with Gravity Falls. Though what I was getting at is when does this anyalysis become a defermental factor in watching any media? Because there is a line between healthy and constructive thinking and over-thinking to the point where you can't properly enjoy the show anymore.

 

Steven Universe is actually rated TV-PG and Pony is rated TV-Y. That difference in the parental guidance system allows SU to get away with a LOT of different things than compared to what Pony can do with its rating.

 

By "defermental" did you mean as in threads that seem to be too negative in their criticism of some aspects about certain episodes or threads that start to go into more mature subjects that don't seem related to the episode from another perspective?  I.E. these types of threads seem to be too negative and it feels like they dissuade other viewers from watching the episode or even giving it chance? 

 

I don't know what we're talking about, but it depends. If I were to jump ahead in my response, I think most people end up putting up the point that if others find their thread too negative then it is up to the reader to make that decision to simply ignore the thread and move on if they choose not wanting to engage with the thread at all.  Like more to it, I'm wondering if this is more of a personal thing dependent on the individual's own decision making. If say my enjoyment of an episode is intrinsically based entirely on what others think about it, then doesn't that mean I've never really actually enjoyed an episode by itself based on my own thoughts about it? I.E. - I don't actually enjoy something, I instead have to rely on others to form my own opinion about it.  Sure, there's a certain amount of criticism that might occur around an episode that I like/or found to be decent, and I might agree with it as well (I can appreciate seeing things from a different perspective at times) but I'll still hold of sense of myself about what I actually think about an episode personally and will keep those thoughts as well while also hearing the thoughts of others. It might be a complicated thing, but I've gotten used to that idea that even if I enjoy an episode, there can easily be someone else who doesn't for whatever reasons and I might have some interest in listening to what they have to say.

 

In shorter words, I'm saying people should make that decision for themselves rather than let others decide for them, and they should learn and understand that distinction carefully.

Edited by pony.colin
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I'm not too sure if I want to go to Brony Con 2016. I went in 2014 and this year.. But from the 2016 con, as fun as it was and all that I did, this fandom is negative and in great irony, a show that incites creativity and positive actions, has one of the most depressive and inane fan bases ever. We need to mature and change. I am only going to Brony Con 2017 if I get my friend from Arizona to go with me.. Going alone would be a waste of time.

I completely agree with you on the fandom. I don't know what it is, but lately this fandom seems to spend all of its time and energy complaining. It's really putting a damper on my enjoyment of the show, TBH.

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I don't think most people are demanding too much from the show. While I personally am fine with the newer seasons, I fully understand why many don't like them and complain about the show.

 

This show's greatest strength is its characters. If the mane 6 were just the shallow archetypes they're based upon few would care about this show. And what do you do with good characters? You tell good stories with them. What makes a good story? Emotion. You want the audience to cheer for the hero, cry when someone close to them dies and shout in anger at the devious villain. So to be more specific, a story is good if it makes the audience feel an intended emotion.

 

When I watch the ending of Cutie Re-Mark, I'm supposed to be crying. Yet I'm too busy scratching my head because Starlight's motivation made little sense. At the end of Newbie Dash, I'm supposed to feel proud of the blue lesbian horse, but I'm too busy mumbling to myself "Did they just say 'hazing is cool'?" When I'm watching the season finale, I'm supposed to root for Starlight, but I struggle because I realized that Every Little Thing She Does made her into a sociopath. Not even exaggerating. That's how she was portrayed there.

 

This is bad writing. And this season has a lot of it. And it sucks. They have great characters, but they just can't tell good stories with them most of the time. Good episodes are, unfortunately, an exception. This doesn't make me angry, just sad.

 

I don't want this show to be the best cartoon of this decade, but I want it to tell good stories because good stories made me truly fall in love with the show after the comedy and satire hooked me in. Stories like Best Night Ever, Suited For Success and Sleepless In Ponyville. They're not amazing stories, but they make me feel happy at the end. That's all I want from this show. I want to have a big dumb smile on my face when the credits roll, maybe with some tears in my eyes.

 

This, however, isn't common nowadays, so I've lowered my standards a bit. I've always loved the comedy in this show and they keep delivering it. The visual style is nice, the animation is good, the music is great. In fact, everything but the writing is consistently good in this show. So that's why I keep watching it.

 

This doesn't stop me or other people from wanting more and being frustrated when we're not given any. To quote Marceline, "I'm only hurting you because I love you."

 

I hope season 7 will be good. I really do.

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In the end of the day, FIM is still a TV-Y kids show, people just over-analyze it and then they get bitter about it, like Tommy Oliver, Digibro, Lily Peet etc, these are some typical examples of how people just over-analyze over a kids show  :orly:. Some people called Do Princess Dream of Magic Sheep the worst episode in the season and even the entire series, really?  :sunbutt: Do you really think DHX want to teach children how to overcome depression by just saying "get over it" ? Or Is it just a truly KID-FRIENDLY simple story about a moon-butt princess can finally forgive herself and nothing ill-intention behind it?  :orly:If Dark Qiviut was here, he would take 2 deadly word "For kids" as an insult to this briliant show.   :o

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 If Dark Qiviut was here, he would take 2 deadly word "For kids" as an insult to this briliant show.   :o

I don't agree with Qiviut very often, and I think some of us need a better ability to criticize the show within its own parameters, but I also feel that dismissing it as "for kids" does the show a disservice. If you say that it doesn't deserve high scrutiny because it's "for kids," to me that implies that you don't hold a whole lot of respect for the show. Sure, that's probably not what you meant to communicate, but there is a reason why some of us get annoyed when people say stuff like that. 

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I think it's easy to fall into one of two pitfalls with this series. It's easy to go soft on it because it's a little girl's show. It can even get to the point where even the worst execution can be swept under the rug and all scrutiny avoided because it's a little girl's show. Making excuses like that can hold the series back because we keep our expectations low and don't have much confidence in it.

 

On the other hand, because this is a series that frequently defies expectations, it's also easy to fall into the other trap of expecting more, and more and more to the point that we begin to expect the unreasonable, all because the series has been known to push the boundaries of what's possible, given the target demographic. I think the series can continue to do the unexpected, but if you want a series that's full of violence, explicit content or for mane characters to be killed off as the story progresses, this is not the right series for that. If you want a series that's smarter than it has every right to be and has engaging characters, amusing humour and even some surprisingly dark season premieres and finales then FiM is that series.

 

As for exactly what standard we should hold the show to, I don't think there's a true benchmark. I think we should expect what the show has proven it can do, and we shouldn't be surprised when it does something new, but we should also be mindful that there are still boundaries FiM will never cross. There's no easy answer to this problem, but that just goes to show how solid this series is.

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Given the reactions of the first EQG movie and Filli Vanilli leading to members of the fandom harassing the show writers, I would say that yes, people can be overly critical.

 

Funny that this happens concerning a show about friendship, love, tolerance and forgiveness :orly:

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Though I do not hold the show in high regards myself, I still have those episodes that either make me cringe, make me laugh, or outright just enjoy. The only episodes I feel upset about are any where the writers showed the Royal Family to be helpless or useless in the face of a threat, whether minor like a cloud being turned into a giant mass of ice threatening to crush thousands of spectators, and the Princesses possibly can't do anything to help due to either having their magic blocked or risking hurting their citizens in the process, or major like being kidnapped by the villain and basically rendered helpless and needing to be rescued by the Elements of Harmony or a third party like Starlight and Thorax.

 

Putting them into situations like that is poor writing in my eyes, and I feel that if they could avoid doing that and allow the Princesses to prove why their friendships with their citizens are the strongest around, it would make me feel a whole lot better when they can help save the day and not be taken out before things get really bad.

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Indeed!

 

Sure you can critique it, but sometimes these people get so judgemental that they completely forget to enjoy the show in the first place!

 

Some people take this show so seriously that it's just sad.

 

No expectations

Laugh at the funny moments

D'awww at the cute moments

Cringe at the bad moments

Move on.

 

If the episode was bad, no matter.

If the episode was good, then that's good!

 

It's as simple as that.

 

Some people come to an episode with very high expectations, then when their

very high expectations aren't met, they hate the episode.

I completely agree with you on the fandom. I don't know what it is, but lately this fandom seems to spend all of its time and energy complaining. It's really putting a damper on my enjoyment of the show, TBH.

I noticed this too. What happened to the positivity, optimism, silliness, and general positivity that I've head about? The only evidence I see of this stuff is in screenshots that are a few years old.

Edited by Heavenly Sun
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I noticed this too. What happened to the positivity, optimism, silliness, and general positivity that I've head about? The only evidence I see of this stuff is in screenshots that are a few years old.

 

Aww... You poor thing :adorkable: Here, a hug will make you feel better!

 

friendship_by_dsana-dac687y.png

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I noticed this too. What happened to the positivity, optimism, silliness, and general positivity that I've head about? The only evidence I see of this stuff is in screenshots that are a few years old.

 

Compared to some forums I have been in, this place is a cake walk.

 

I think a lot of people just like to complain, for whatever reason. Whether it is legitimate or they just are belly-aching. Personally I just lets me know the fandom is doing alright since by endlessly complaining it tells me they are watching the show. Heavily watching it at that.

 

The worst thing is an empty silent forum.

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Yes. Whom else can overanalyze and meticulously point out everything that goes around the show either good or bad? I like to think that I myself, I'm guilty of overthinking about a kids show but then it's your thing to do as a dedicated fan. I have certain standards not just for this show but to the things I invest my time and energy in and that's proof that you actually care or like something to a full extent. Sure, the show have imperfections, well basically everything does in that matter but that doesn't make it any less worthwhile to hold too.

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D'awww!

I'm glad to see that not everyone has lost their flame!

Maybe I just haven't been looking in the right places, maybe it is still around.

 

It sure is.

 

Many haven't lost their "flame" yet. Well, it depends on what you define as the "flame". If you talk about the hype then yes many have lost that. I for instance don't see MLP like i did 2 years ago. To me, it has now become casual. I love ponies and it's no obligation i have to stay here. I just don't wanna leave. Many may still have goals to fulfill in the community like me: Making friends and having a great time.

 

Some may have reached all their goals and have no reason to stay. Also because they don't enjoy being here.

To those, who only see the show, and only are going for the "great feeling they had when they became a brony" they aren't going to find anything. What is important, is to know, if you wanna stay and why and that you are not doing this because you feel obligated to be here.

 

That being said, yes. I do believe, that many people expect too much from the show. Maybe that's something good but i don't think so. If you compare it to other grown-up shows, then i doesn't look THAT good. But i mean, if a kids show is able to be compared with grown-up shows, then that must be a pretty good kids show, right? :lol: Still, everyone needs to be reminded: It is just a good kids show. And you should watch and analize it because you enjoy it but not because you somehow feel bound to it.

 

What i have noticed, is that most of the negativity from the fandom is coming from the analyst community.

And okay, they may be telling the truth about the show, that, in a nutshell, it's basically shit. But is this what we are here for?

Are we here to see the truth about a kids show that is being treated like an adult show?

Or are we here to just have a good time?

Or are we here for a purpose in life?

 

Who knows, that question can everyone answer for themselves.

 

The only thing you can do is stay away from all the drama or just straight down not care about it, overlook the bad things and enjoy the good things.

Edited by FizzyGreen
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That and analysing puts a "veil" between you and the show, otherwise you can't analyse properly. But if you have that veil as you're watching it, you can't enjoy it the same way... I know that I just watch what is airing and do my best to accept and enjoy the episode we've been given, instead of keeping in my mind what could have been, what I expected of it, and so on. And only once I've watched it may I stop to analyse it, and that actually reinforces the feelings I've felt while watching.

 

Because ponies are so caring, forgiving, tolerant... How I wish our world would take lessons from theirs! But yeah, at the end of the day, it still is a kid's show, and some elements are there just for them. Take Applejack's Day Off. I'm pretty sure that her imitating a chicken and the likes was to give the children a good laugh. The lesson that we're sometimes wasting time or not as efficient by habit is true though, and some people are paid by companies to actually look around and give advice on how to better optimise it.

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 If you talk about the hype then yes many have lost that. I for instance don't see MLP like i did 2 years ago. To me, it has now become casual.

 

I agree with pretty much everything you are saying, but I think this one single line sums up what a LOT of people are going through and dealing with and struggling to really get a grip with.

 

MLP is like many other "fads". People discover it, fall in love and unite behind it in a showing of "brotherly love". It becomes like a secret club or haven for them, a special place where only they and a select few others know about.

 

And then suddenly... everyone else discovers it to. Here come the "casuals" or the "uninitiated" or whatever people choose to call them. And suddenly... it is no longer a secret. It is not the haven they once visited and loved so much. Now it is memes plastered everywhere and busting through walls like the Kool Aid man...  it grows and grows well past their expectations, and becomes more than what they may necessarily like or be prepared for. Now they see it as something not predominately theirs, just as something that is spiraling away 

 

And what I will say next might trigger a couple people, but in my personal opinion, those who really found the show, and connected with it for what it was and is, found some stronger meaning within it, built a connection to it and and made it a part of their lives... they are not going anywhere. They still believe in it... because that connection is still there... that "family" bond they built together is still there. Some poorly written episodes and a bunch of negative nancys are not going to break that. The rest don't see it as a home... for them it is just another group to hang out with until a new more interesting cool kid shows up on the playground to gravitate towards... one nobody else knows about except them... and the cycle continues.

 

MLP has not changed... the fandom has. It has grown a lot bigger than anyone ever believed it would... it has become mainstream... and a LOT of people can't handle that... they want their private club back and it is just not going to happen.

 

And that is pretty normal actually.

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I agree with pretty much everything you are saying, but I think this one single line sums up what a LOT of people are going through and dealing with and struggling to really get a grip with.

 

MLP is like many other "fads". People discover it, fall in love and unite behind it in a showing of "brotherly love". It becomes like a secret club or haven for them, a special place where only they and a select few others know about.

 

And then suddenly... everyone else discovers it to. Here come the "casuals" or the "uninitiated" or whatever people choose to call them. And suddenly... it is no longer a secret. It is not the haven they once visited and loved so much. Now it is memes plastered everywhere and busting through walls like the Kool Aid man...  it grows and grows well past their expectations, and becomes more than what they may necessarily like or be prepared for. Now they see it as something not predominately theirs, just as something that is spiraling away 

 

And what I will say next might trigger a couple people, but in my personal opinion, those who really found the show, and connected with it for what it was and is, found some stronger meaning within it, built a connection to it and and made it a part of their lives... they are not going anywhere. They still believe in it... because that connection is still there... that "family" bond they built together is still there. Some poorly written episodes and a bunch of negative nancys are not going to break that. The rest don't see it as a home... for them it is just another group to hang out with until a new more interesting cool kid shows up on the playground to gravitate towards... one nobody else knows about except them... and the cycle continues.

 

MLP has not changed... the fandom has. It has grown a lot bigger than anyone ever believed it would... it has become mainstream... and a LOT of people can't handle that... they want their private club back and it is just not going to happen.

 

And that is pretty normal actually.

^this

I agree with everything.

 

It is becoming more casual. MLP. And looking at it from the old perspective just isn't going to work that well. You need to adapt your view on the show. The thing is: If you like the show for what it is, and what it gives and will always give you, then you have a reason to stay. I mean, isn't the main thing like... that it brings people together?

Edited by FizzyGreen
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Given the reactions of the first EQG movie and Filli Vanilli leading to members of the fandom harassing the show writers, I would say that yes, people can be overly critical.

Ugh, don't remind me.  :eww:

 

I noticed this too. What happened to the positivity, optimism, silliness, and general positivity that I've head about? The only evidence I see of this stuff is in screenshots that are a few years old.

Compared to other pony sites I've spent time on (cough Derpibooru cough) MLPForums is relatively upbeat and optimistic.

Edited by Silvestra Spooner
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  • 2 months later...

Im still really hyped for MLP. A lot of the older bronies that have been around for awhile have lost the hype, but a lot of people are also still hyped, don't forget about us. I hope I'm not alone here.

 

Especially about season 7 and the movie :D

 

I'm still trying to think of a name for my OC and that's hard though :(

Edited by trademark2
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