MLP needs more thought-provoking episodes

[trademark2 485]

It shows quite a bit of skew because it is a flawed poll representing only a self-selecting sample.  If we take the target audience as being between 4 and 12, this gives you potentially a huge base of viewers who are not necessarily bronies (or pegasisters).  I do not know anyone that would permit a 4 year old to surf the internet unsupervised, or allow them to fill in a survey such as the one that produced the Herd Report.

 

Citing a lack of alternative figures does not increase the accuracy of the figures that you may have, especially when those figures come from a dubious collection method.

The herd report does show there are a substantial number of adult fans however, I will leave it there.

Edited December 8, 2016 by trademark2

[EmeraldStar04 250]

Steven Universe's pretentiousness gets worse over time.

 

let me fix that for you

 

SU isn't a good show.

 

[BastementSparkle 20,312]

 

 

let me fix that for you   SU isn't a good show.  

 

That's your opinion and you're entitled to it, but I don't agree with you in the slightest. 

[trademark2 485]

let me fix that for you

 

SU isn't a good show.

 

I don't like it much either, you see. But according to some metrics it is the number one cartoon, so I was curious as to why. And I did see some things that were good in the show. 

I do think they can at least go as far as they have in the past, which was the battle with turok. That is far enough. They could stray over to the edge of that boundary more in plotting, and it would make the show interesting if they did.

 

If you have 3 different blocks, you can arrange them in 6 different ways. If you have 5 different blocks, you can arrange them in 120 different ways. It's the same way with plot elements. Just straying a little towards the boundary gives them so much more combinations for plotting.

Can we get the thread back on track though about discussing whether MLP should go farther in its plot ideas?

Edited December 8, 2016 by trademark2

[Gestum 2,493]

MLP needs thought provoking episodes as much as a fish needs a bicycle.  It has made it through 6 seasons without any and it still has a large fanbase, so clearly the lack of thought provoking episodes doesn't harm the show. 

[trademark2 485]

MLP needs thought provoking episodes as much as a fish needs a bicycle.  It has made it through 6 seasons without any and it still has a large fanbase, so clearly the lack of thought provoking episodes doesn't harm the show. 

There have been many thought provoking episodes in the show to date though. 

Edited December 8, 2016 by trademark2

[Gestum 2,493]

 

 

There have been many thought provoking episodes in the show to date though. 

Not in my personal opinion. Personally I find the morals of the episodes to be pretty simple and I can't really think of something that the show did something new with.

[EmployeeAMillion 70]

The target audience for MLP is still elementary school aged children. It's just not in the same field as Steven Universe. 

 

I think that the stories are thought provoking as is, in the realm of friendship lessons for kids, which is really what it's all about at its core.

 

This is why I am definitely []< this close to just giving up and making my own fan fiction, because I really want to see these characters tackle more grown-up, mature themes, or at least childish themes in a mature way. That's just something the show has lost with each successive season, and I really don't want to see a season where that notion is completely thrown out the window for just being an ultra-childish show.

[Thrond 3,257]

I don't know how this misunderstanding started, but I wasn't trying to say adult content or ideas should be in the show. People are acting like im advocating for 'rainbow factory' to be part of canon. I do think they can at least go as far as they have in the past, which was the battle with turok. That is far enough. They could stray over to the edge of that boundary more in plotting, and it would make the show interesting if they did.

 

If you have 3 different blocks, you can arrange them in 6 different ways. If you have 5 different blocks, you can arrange them in 120 different ways. It's the same way with plot elements. Just straying a little towards the boundary gives them so much more combinations for plotting.

I'm not sure what you're asking for. When I think of things Steven Universe does better than MLP, it mostly comes down to 1. adult themes, 2. serialized plot arcs, and 3. queer representation. All of these are things which MLP seems pretty likely to never do: 1 is something it probably does as much as it should, 2 isn't allowed by the channel, and 3 would be nice but is too risky for a big children's toy brand. What else are you asking for?

 

And the battle with Tirek strikes me as the very opposite of thought provoking; it's a big dumb laser show in an otherwise very thoughtful episode. I mean, it works, but I increasingly fail to understand why peopl act like that battle is such a big deal.

Edited December 8, 2016 by AlexanderThrond

[GrimGrimoire 4,970]

 

 

but I increasingly fail to understand why peopl act like that battle is such a big deal.

 

Because it is as close to a real knock out brawl as we are likely to ever see on the show. In the grand scope of the entire show... it is one of the very few real fights we have ever seen.

 

 

As for the rest of it. Leave the show alone.. it has been doing something people apparently love for 6 damn seasons, enough for a 7th season to be announced and a major motion picture to be hitting theaters everywhere... and a few people keep popping up now and again saying it needs to change for people to like it as if they did not already. All the "bronies" here or anywhere, bought a ticket and got on board this train exactly the way it stands right now... none of them were tricked or hoodwinked by some mature themed show and suddenly slapped with a kiddie show when their backs were turned. They are still doing nods to the fandom and trying to work in stuff for older viewers to get a kick out of, but the show as it stands right now, is exactly what we all chose to get into, and except for some possibly poor decisions in S6, it is still that same show.

[Ganondorf8 11,118]

There is only so far that the writers can take the show with regards to thought-provoking situations. You must remember that the age group does take precidence and as such, certain topics cannot be done unless the writers were given explicit approval from Hasbro. I see Steven Universe as a show aimed at a slightly older audience than MLP, so it can handle some of the more difficult topics. MLP doesn't have that luxury so it must stick with the kind of stories it has been presenting.

[Bit Boss 213]

The "Steven universe" tag made me think your suggestion was going to be "A CANON GAY COUPLE!"

Aw that'd be great!

 

I think I generally agree with OP, but isn't Steven Universe a little more independent than MLP? It seems like Hasbro puts pressure on the writers of MLP to make the show  very merchandise-friendly. You can see it in design choices and storylines for the show e.g. that episode where the power of...the elements or something gave them new hairstyles...you know the one?

Anyway SU is character- and story-driven whereas MLP has to fit their stories to what producers want.

I think it's great that MLP is as thought-provoking as it IS with this limitation.

 

 

... 2. serialized plot arcs, and 3. queer representation... 2 isn't allowed by the channel, and 3 would be nice but is too risky for a big children's toy brand.

 

 

The channel doesn't ALLOW a serialised plot? Well then, there's our answer. You can't have a well-developed and thought-provoking plot if every episode has to make sense on it's own.

[Babyyoshi309 1,829]

As I already said, alot of people, like myself, who realise that it is just a TV show like watching it BECAUSE its a kid show, which means it is cute, light hearted, cheery and no dark themes.

 

What you mean it would be tragic for edgelord bronies or bronies who make this show their life.

 

I take offense to that.

 

Also, have you even seen the show? There is tons of dark stuff... 

[Thrond 3,257]

Aw that'd be great!

 

I think I generally agree with OP, but isn't Steven Universe a little more independent than MLP? It seems like Hasbro puts pressure on the writers of MLP to make the show very merchandise-friendly. You can see it in design choices and storylines for the show e.g. that episode where the power of...the elements or something gave them new hairstyles...you know the one?

Anyway SU is character- and story-driven whereas MLP has to fit their stories to what producers want.

I think it's great that MLP is as thought-provoking as it IS with this limitation.

 

 

The channel doesn't ALLOW a serialised plot? Well then, there's our answer. You can't have a well-developed and thought-provoking plot if every episode has to make sense on it's own.

Discovery Family wants to be able to rerun episodes in any order.

I take offense to that.

 

Also, have you even seen the show? There is tons of dark stuff...

It does go there sometimes, but most of the time it's still pretty lighthearted, and those dark bits usually don't extend to the general plots of episodes.

[Jeric 46,835]

I have few requirements for me to enjoy FiM. Did I smile? Did I laugh? Was there a clever nod to continuity/fandom/culture? How good was the cuteness factor? Good natured or smarmy feels? Good moral? Stuff like that. Look, I didn't get into the show because of any deep messages. I have tons of books and movies that do that well already. When FiM does provoke a thoughtful message, I appreciate it ... but it isn't an absolute requirement. I do not want them to alter the tone we have beyond the season to season tweaks we have occasionally seen. And TBH, you can find the depth you need in the show now ... just a matter of interpretation.

 

Every once in a while they shock me and do something completely out of left field like the Tirek battle, Slice of Life, etc. I like that, but don't want it to be the standard. 

[PonyMage 227]

And the battle with Tirek strikes me as the very opposite of thought provoking; it's a big dumb laser show in an otherwise very thoughtful episode. I mean, it works, but I increasingly fail to understand why peopl act like that battle is such a big deal.

Wow, I thought I was the only one who thought that wasn't amazing...

 

Tbh, I like the way MLP has handled thought provoking stuff so far. They keep it usually light, not too dark, but relatable while still having a feel good ending, yet it doesn't feel too dumbed down. I don't think a lot of media can say that.

[trademark2 485]

I have few requirements for me to enjoy FiM. Did I smile? Did I laugh? Was there a clever nod to continuity/fandom/culture? How good was the cuteness factor? Good natured or smarmy feels? Good moral? Stuff like that. Look, I didn't get into the show because of any deep messages. I have tons of books and movies that do that well already. When FiM does provoke a thoughtful message, I appreciate it ... but it isn't an absolute requirement. I do not want them to alter the tone we have beyond the season to season tweaks we have occasionally seen. And TBH, you can find the depth you need in the show now ... just a matter of interpretation.

 

Every once in a while they shock me and do something completely out of left field like the Tirek battle, Slice of Life, etc. I like that, but don't want it to be the standard. 

I can see this. I think it would work to have story arcs too, but if they are going to be episodic and still increase the fanbase, I think they need to do something more. I don't think just being a cute kids show is going to increase the fanbase. Yes, it might please some bronies on here, but its not going to attract new(brony) viewers. Kids too, someone said they deserve quality entertainment. Well, this would be another level to that.

 

MLP is quality already of course, but it got kind of shaky in SOME ways last season. The writing itself was very well done, but they didn't stick to character with some things, like applejack doing convoluted farm chores forinstance. They relied on these mischaricterizations for some of their plotlines. If they don't have any other ideas, its a direction they could go. 

 

If you have 3 building blocks, you can arrange them in 6 different ways, but with 5 building blocks, you have 120 different ways. Same with plotlines

 

 

The channel doesn't ALLOW a serialised plot? Well then, there's our answer. You can't have a well-developed and thought-provoking plot if every episode has to make sense on it's own.

If this is true, then they should move to online streaming or something. But is there a source for this? 

Edited December 9, 2016 by trademark2

[Bit Boss 213]

 

 

If this is true, then they should move to online streaming or something. But is there a source for this? 

Yeah but Trademark, think of the MONEEEEY 

[Black Sabbath 2,484]

Also, have you even seen the show? There is tons of dark stuff... 

Could you perhaps give an example or two? 

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

 

 

Could you perhaps give an example or two?

 

Dark is a relative term, but I think the attempted political brainwashing of the mane 6 in a Stalinist gulag was some pretty heavy stuff.  Of course it was handled in a way that didn't alienate the target audience but still managed to engage more mature viewers, which is pretty impressive.

[trademark2 485]

I'm not sure what you're asking for. When I think of things Steven Universe does better than MLP, it mostly comes down to 1. adult themes, 2. serialized plot arcs, and 3. queer representation. All of these are things which MLP seems pretty likely to never do: 1 is something it probably does as much as it should, 2 isn't allowed by the channel, and 3 would be nice but is too risky for a big children's toy brand. What else are you asking for?

 

And the battle with Tirek strikes me as the very opposite of thought provoking; it's a big dumb laser show in an otherwise very thoughtful episode. I mean, it works, but I increasingly fail to understand why peopl act like that battle is such a big deal.

Well, as something of an example, in one episode of steven universe, they have to travel to an aquatic world and place a statue to save the area from being destroyed. They face a lot of danger(for a cartoon) in getting there, only to find that stephen left the statue behind on his bed. It was very funny. But, MLP would have a harder time doing something like this. A lot of things get added flavor if there is some danger involved, and this is one example of that. So, I think with some legitimate danger(which is what is represented by turok), the episodes can portray things better. Actually it had started to do this slightly in one season, i remember applebloom trying to get a cart through a haunted wood and being attacked by a chimera. But I think they may be hesitant to do this.

 

Stephen and mlp are both kids shows, and kids deserve quality entertainment. Some say mlp is aimed at a younger audience, and its true that kids are a large demographic for the show, but that doesn't mean every single solitary thing has to be aimed at the intellectual level of a Y-7 year old. Like the post above me said, the communist village episode was very interesting; they can do more of that, and they can put some danger into some episodes to spice things up. 

 

The whole world opens up and becomes more realistic if you allow danger to be portrayed. Of course you can do the YA plot thing where everyone is always safe in the end, its the portrayal itself that opens the door

Edited December 10, 2016 by trademark2

[cider float 2,535]

Lot of MLP is pretty softcore in thought provocation. It's good enough that it doesn't make you gag but it doesn't try to go beyond that whether that's because the writers are just not that enlightened, unwilling or restricted to do so is up for debate.

[Babyyoshi309 1,829]

Could you perhaps give an example or two?

Just ones off the top of my head (so I am probably forgetting a lot).

 

Season 1:

Stare master, the cockatrice turning Twilight into stone (minor one).

Party of One Pinkie Pie going insane.

 

Season 2:

Lesson Zero, Fluttershy breaking the bear's neck (forgot the bear's name).

Lesson Zero, Twilight going insane.

Canterlot Wedding, Cadence/Chrysalis sending twilight to cave in ring of fire.

 

Season 3:

Crystal Empire, Sombra enslaving the crystal empire.

Crystal Empire, Sombra getting destroyed.

Too many Pinkie Pies, the Pinkie clones getting destroyed in slightly gruesome ways.

Sleepless in Ponyville, pretty much the entire episode.

Magical Mystery Cure, Twilight's "death".

 

Season 4:

Princess Twilight Sparkle, so much dark stuff in this episode I am not even going to bother listing it.

Castle Mane-ia, the Pony of Shadows.

Bats!, Flutterbat.

Three's a Crowd, the flower monster thing.

Somepony to Watch Over Me, the chimera.

Twilight's Kingdom, what I am talking about is pretty obvious.

 

Season 5:

The Cutie Map, a bizarre cult imprisoning and brainwashing the mane 6 (and many other things).

Bloom and Gloom, Applebloom's shadow was probably the freakiest thing in the show.

Tanks for the Memories, considering that episode was an analogy for having your pet die, I would say it was pretty dark.

Scare Master, the scene where Fluttershy is scaring the others is actually rather creepy.

 

Season 6:

No Second Prances, Trixie pretty much attempting suicide.

A Hearth's Warming Tail, Luna's song was slightly dark.

28 Pranks Later, zombies.

Where the Apple Lies, Granny tried to AMPUTATE Big Mac!!!!!!

To Where and Back Again, when Starlight finally gets to the thrown room.

Edited December 12, 2016 by Babyyoshi309

[Thrond 3,257]

Could you perhaps give an example or two? 

I maintain that "The Return of Harmony" has a slight sadistic edge which makes Discord effortlessly screwing with the mane six's minds a bit dark, and stuff like Twilight's breakdown in "Lesson Zero" is legitimately kinda frightening. If we want to look as recently as seasons 5 and 6, then I could just point to every single thing about "The Cutie Map," or to the unsweetened depiction of a war in "The Cutie Re-Mark," or that one creepy bit from "From Where to Back Again" where Chrysalis twists her neck around in a completely unnatural way.

 

But as I said, it's more often than not pretty lighthearted, and that's exactly what it should be. A bit of darkness here and there is certainly fun, but it's only welcome as long as the show doesn't forget that it's a children's cartoon about technicolour ponies. Darkness is an occasional treat, but it's not the point. 

[cmarston1 5,952]

But we already have shows like Steven Universe doing that kind of thing, and in a lot of cases better than FIM.