general Anyone else dislike the terms 'America(n)'?

[Zyrael 1,471]

Well if I didn't before, I do now. Considering I can't hear the term without seeing  that big orange cheeto who's supposed to represent my country. Screw this I'm going to be an italian. 

Edited January 7, 2017 by Zyrael

[Unikitty 1,211]

It's a much more common feeling than you'd expect. It all really boils down to where you are. Because you are in America, in a state of the United States, you have a much easier time seeing all the little elements that make up your state. You turn on the TV and you see local news. Check your Facebook and see local events from all your friends. It's just about actually being in your area.

Being from Australia, I couldn't get that same level of detail(I can't even remember the state you live in while I'm writing this), so the information I get is very generalised and simplified.

The same would go for you in regards to me. You see Australia, where as I see the Northern Territory. You might hear about our Prime Minister having been elected(re-elected? I dunno. It's confusing. There was a lot of backstabbing, a broken census, someone eating a raw onion... It's been a tough time). However I could talk about things such as our local govt leasing our port to China for the next hundred years. Or the latest crocodile attack.

 

Point really being that it's not just you, it's just about the proximity of you to certain levels of information.

 

Well I have the same views as you in regarding my own country, Australia.
All the states/territories are different with government, education, climate and even accents!

Like you, I only care for my state and city and how it's run. Our Prime Ministers have all been shit. They can stay away from my state like they always do anyway

 

Oh I hear that. All you southerners sound so weird. Blummin' Queenslanders. c:

[KatonRyu 1,026]

25 of them is half.  Exactly half.

 

Weren't there 51 states? Or am I even less informed than I thoughtXD

[Concerned Bystander 2,901]

Weren't there 51 states? Or am I even less informed than I thoughtXD

 

There are 50 states, that's why I wasn't sure if you were joking to emphasise your stated lack of knowledge.

[\/ 650]

Interesting concern, I suppose it's like grouping Asians all under one term. There's lots of different types of Asians, just like how there's different part of America. But one a continent of people and the other is a country. Not sure how I feel about that but I do understand

Like how every person I've ever talked to manages to be appalled if I mention the fact that Russians are technically Asian.

[They call me Loyalty 1,941]

To perceive the world as a whole, despite identifying life individually, cultural perceptions.

Personal ideologies such as nationalism are irrelevant. My purpose being to witness life beyond the conceptualization thereof.

It'd be foolish to think I could own a portion of earth, when such entity shares itself for my sustent and nourishment.

Beyond the limited perception of ego. A higher awareness shows me a bigger picture. I belong to earth.

Edited January 7, 2017 by They call me Loyalty

[Silver Letter 1,830]

I've heard this in the context that the term offends those from outside the US who exist in the umbrella of the "Americas". I think that's silly but since that's not what you're getting at, I'll leave it at that. As far as your comment goes, I don't think the states matter. Where I live doesn't affect who I am and where I was born isn't important. I live in one country that's altogether multicultural. The best thing about the US is that nobody is native and can claim legitimately to represent a "culture" bound to the "American" identity. The term is like a logo clarifying that one is born within the boundaries of the greater republic. I wouldn't call you by that nickname because to me, it doesn't matter. You don't have a culture. You are just you until I learn who you are, I can't treat you differently or treat you as if you are different. I believe that the term is best represented by its real motto which is "out of many, one". There are cultures from all over the world being represented in the greater republic and we're all equal under the law. That's what being American should be about. Nobody has the right to say that I or anybody else doesn't belong because of how we behave. Other nations might allow that because they were based on a culture or race. Not this country. So, I don't dislike it.

[AaronMk 280]

Weren't there 51 states? Or am I even less informed than I thoughtXD

 

Not until Congress gets off its ass and admits Puerto Rico as a state, as opposed to keeping it as an unorganized, unincorporated territory.

 

By all respects it should be a state by now. It has all the qualifications.

Edited January 7, 2017 by AaronMk

[Blackshirt Brony 415]

American sounds better than "Michigander" or "Floridian."

[NotoriousSMALL 1,984]

Yeah, but do you call people Italian, or British, or Chinese?

When they could actually be from Tuscany, Wales, or Inner Mongolia?

Quit being so bummed about being "lumped up". It isn't a big deal.

[Steel Accord 6,658]

I believe, as each state would be run independently of each other and no longer just working together. America is the number one country for a reason, through being United.

 

Well it's a bit more complicated than that. I agree with the overall sentiment and appreciate your words but the original idea WAS that each state would be relatively autonomous and able to run its own affairs. Power has been gradually shifting to a more centralized form and many of us are growing wary of that.

 

Of course, you are right that, when it comes down to it, we are indeed the "United States" and I wouldn't change that. My point is that emphasis should be placed on both words. United: we do have a declared allegiance to one another as citizens of a grand experiment. States: we are not a mono-culture or even a mono-polity. Each state has its own laws, customs, demographics and therefore heritage, etc.

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

 

To actually answer the question. No but in a specific context. Frankly one similar to the OP, whom I'm only refusing to brohoof because of his dismissive remark to my beloved nation. I always say "I don't live in America, I live in and love the United States." Such is my acknowledgment and deceleration of a couple things.

 

For one, while I do think we're blessed to have the continent we do, North America is ultimately incidental to the Dream. The U.S. could have been founded in Europe, Asia, or wherever. To be "American" for lack of a better term is not a matter of ethnicity or geography but of ideals and beliefs. (I mean certainly one is a citizen or not but I'm not talking about something so surface level.)

 

Secondly, I'm a Pennsylvanian. I was born in Philly, I have Amish friends, and I love cheese steaks. The same could not all be said of someone from Ohio or Colorado. (Broad generalization, I know.) We ARE all different. Hell to say someone is "American" inevitably will conjure the image of a white male and whatever accouterments the person attributes to such. Rather than say, an Arab man selling hats and cell phones on Madison Square, or an Asian woman college student majoring in sports management. Both are or can be American no more or less than I am. My problem with the term comes when it is used in blanket statements about one of the most ethnically and culturally diverse countries on the planet.

 

Failing anything else, no I don't dislike the term "American" insofar as it is shorthand for "something or someone from or of the United States." Simply the negative context in which it is used in today's parlance.

 

The term that does get me blood boiling PISSED is "Merica" or any derivatives! 

 

 

Being European I tend to describe America as 'Murica' more often than not, so I guess I'm part of the problem here.

 

See . . . above . . .    

 

Kidding mostly. I don't detect much maliciousness in your post. It's my hangup, my problem. Not yours.

 

 

 

I mainly do that because so many things in the US as a whole seem incredibly foreign to me,

 

Iiiiiiiiiiif you have any questions you're curious enough to have answered I always try to act as an informal ambassador whenever I'm online or go abroad. PM me if you're interested. 

Edited January 10, 2017 by Steel Accord

[trademark2 485]

Well it's a bit more complicated than that. I agree with the overall sentiment and appreciate your words but the original idea WAS that each state would be relatively autonomous and able to run its own affairs. Power has been gradually shifting to a more centralized form and many of us are growing wary of that.

 

Of course, you are right that, when it comes down to it, we are indeed the "United States" and I wouldn't change that. My point is that emphasis should be placed on both words. United: we do have a declared allegiance to one another as citizens of a grand experiment. States: we are not a mono-culture or even a mono-polity. Each state has its own laws, customs, etc.

 

~ ~ ~ ~ ~

 

To actually answer the question. No but in a specific context. Frankly one similar to the OP, whom I'm only refusing to brohoof because of his dismissive remark to my beloved nation. I always say "I don't live in America, I live in and love the United States." Such is my acknowledgment and deceleration of a couple things.

 

For one, while I do think we're blessed to have the continent we do, North America is ultimately incidental to the Dream. The U.S. could have been founded in Europe, Asia, or wherever. To be "American" for lack of a better term is not a matter of ethnicity or geography but of ideals and beliefs. (I mean certainly one is a citizen or not but I'm not talking about something so surface level.)

 

Secondly, I'm a Pennsylvanian. I was born in Philly, I have Amish friends, and I love cheese steaks. The same could not all be said of someone from Ohio or Colorado. (Broad generalization, I know.) We ARE all different. Hell to say someone is "American" inevitably will conjure the image of a white male and whatever accouterments the person attributes to such. Rather than say, an Arab man selling hats and cell phones on Madison Square, or an Asian woman college student majoring in sports management. Both are or can be American no more or less than I am. My problem with the term comes when it is used in blanket statements about one of the most ethnically and culturally diverse countries on the planet.

 

Failing anything else, no I don't dislike the term "American" insofar as it is shorthand for "something or someone from or of the United States." Simply the negative context in which it is used in today's parlance.

 

The term that does get me blood boiling PISSED is "Merica" or any derivatives! 

this is beautiful! This is also what I am concerned about. I see those in California are acting so holier than thou to the entire rest of the country. It's fine if they have their culture, but they shouldn't try to enforce it on others! This is called cultural imperialism and is a bad thing! 

[Steel Accord 6,658]

this is beautiful! This is also what I am concerned about. I see those in California are acting so holier than thou to the entire rest of the country. It's fine if they have their culture, but they shouldn't try to enforce it on others! This is called cultural imperialism and is a bad thing! 

 

I agree with the overall point but to call such "cultural imperialism" is a tad hyperbolic. Don't give the Silicon valley elite more credit than they're due, they're not the Roman Empire. It's a problem, I fully agree, but not one impossible to recover from.

[Choros Isorropai 409]

just to clarify, this is a beliefe i have held sence i was a little kid, starting to learn the "pledge of allegiance"...

 

if you think about it... America is a continent, so everyone from Alaska through Canada, including the most southern tip of "South" America, up to Mexico... all American...

 

but the US, always says "USA, USA..." when its technically "US of A"...

 

in my opinion we should call ourselfs "us" not U S, or the prior (usa)... but the WORD Us,

or if that seems too odd, why not "staters"...lol

 

if I had to say what I am, (nationality) I would say "great north west" as that sounds cool.

if I had to be more specific...I am an Olympian (born and raised in Olympia, Washington)

but if you don't know the capital of Wa, you may think me a madly obsessed historian...

[Glacies Frost 428]

Either way I live in a state that does not see itself as American in any way, since we consider ourselves above everyone else in the union apparently.

 

So... going to guess California or Texas, going in blind.

 

On the topic, however, I do not mind being referred to as "American." I was born and raised in Georgia, one of the original thirteen colonies that banded together to fight the American Revolution in the first place. You can call me whatever you please... I honestly do not have a problem with whatever term for "American" you use. I am proud to have been born in the United States. Just hope Trump doesn't try to "improve our infrastructure" by plating the roads in gold like he did his penthouse in New York.

 

I'm getting my potshots in whether they like it or not. The only reason I wanted Trump to win was to make fun of him, and by Sun Butt herself I'm going to do it!

[Silver Letter 1,830]

 

 

It's fine if they have their culture, but they shouldn't try to enforce it on others!

There is no singular culture here. CA is a globally influenced land, although it has a great emphasis on what is called "transpacific" influence. Still, that's not a culture in itself. There is no "Californian" way of doing something.

[Magic Note 2,734]

It gets confusing when people say American when they refer to the US because there's Latin, North and South Americas. So, yeah, I dislike the term American.

[Anneal 2,194]

this is beautiful! This is also what I am concerned about. I see those in California are acting so holier than thou to the entire rest of the country. It's fine if they have their culture, but they shouldn't try to enforce it on others! This is called cultural imperialism and is a bad thing!

 

I agree with the overall point but to call such "cultural imperialism" is a tad hyperbolic. Don't give the Silicon valley elite more credit than they're due, they're not the Roman Empire. It's a problem, I fully agree, but not one impossible to recover from.

I live in CA and my home city is San Jose, so you might want to be careful where you're directing that anger and frustration to. My family is pretty rich, though, but I'm not exactly fuerdai. Edited January 11, 2017 by Minccino

[trademark2 485]

Not everyone in California of course, you know I don't mean everyone. You know who I am talking about if you are in those circles though, surely. Cultural imperialism is not a terrible thing, it just means they are trying to enforce a cultural system on others.
 

I do think there is substantial cultural drift between California and the rest of the country, this is why a lot of people there wanted to secede from the union. And they have a point. Maybe you are right that I shouldn't say California though... But that is the cultural system there, it is close to what I am talking about. Do you think there is a sense of elitism?

Edited January 12, 2017 by trademark2

[Steve Piranha 28,728]

To get it out of the way early, I live in Indiana. So that means I live in the oh so gloriously not glorious 'U.S.A' where we will soon be under a new reign of tyranny. Yay.

 

I have always been someone that views everything here from a state by state basis. I view everything by each state specifically. Most of the world doesn't do this, they simply see them all as 'America' and they view all of us that live in any state as 'American'.

 

The thing is, I hate that. I really do. I hate being lumped into one giant thing like that. One category. Simply 'American' and living in 'america' are terms I don't like in the slightest. Maybe I am super weird and literally nobody else sees it this way, that's fine, maybe it is just the way things are. For me though, since I live in Indiana, that is all I mention and that is all I look at it from. I only take pride in my state and none of the others. I only care about what political stuff happens in my state, none of the others. I know, the states are all supposed to be 'United' but I personally think some federal government that oversees it all doesn't mean a whole lot in the grand scheme of things. I also don't like the term U.S.A either but that is a different topic.

 

Maybe it makes it easier for people to simply say 'America' and 'American', as an alternative would be harder to remember, that could be a thing too, but it doesn't change my view. I don't expect people to simply call me a Hoosier or something just to make me happy, but I still stand on my point.

 

The states are all different, each one has its own laws, its own government, its own people, its own counties, some states have townships within their counties and others don't. Each state has its own culture basically, but everywhere I go I see 'American' or America. Even the counties within the states can have their own laws and cultures too. If I viewed it all as one big thing and that's it, I would hate most of it. All of this could be a result of me being autistic and thus having weird obsessions like this one with territories and such.

 

So, that is my viewpoint. Does anyone else feel this way? Again, I know, I am weird, but maybe someone else agrees. 1 out of 100 would be a surprise to me. I don't think this should go into the Debate Pit either as I don't want a debate, but rather a discussion.

Well sure, from a country-wide point of view, you're from Indiana, but remember that, despite having different laws like the other states, they are within the borders of one country, and is the USA, and I don't think the rest of the world will refer to each of the states individually when they can acknowledge the country as a whole

[Steel Accord 6,658]

I live in CA and my home city is San Jose, so you might want to be careful where you're directing that anger and frustration to. My family is pretty rich, though, but I'm not exactly fuerdai.

 

I wasn't directing any anger to anyone. If you recall the quote you'll see I was suggesting trademark dial it back a bit.

[Varrack 1,080]

So...what term should we use when referring to someone from the United States? Every state has its differences, yes, but each state is also subject to national laws and customs. Indiana is not a country, so why shouldn't we refer to them as Americans, if they are part of the US as well?

 

I guess I'm not understanding the logic of this post. 

[Anneal 2,194]

Not everyone in California of course, you know I don't mean everyone. You know who I am talking about if you are in those circles though, surely. Cultural imperialism is not a terrible thing, it just means they are trying to enforce a cultural system on others.

 

I do think there is substantial cultural drift between California and the rest of the country, this is why a lot of people there wanted to secede from the union. And they have a point. Maybe you are right that I shouldn't say California though... But that is the cultural system there, it is close to what I am talking about. Do you think there is a sense of elitism?

 

Don't know what you're talking about because CA is not seceding anytime soon. CA is indeed much different from the rest of the US and Californians do actually make more money, but the expenses here are typically higher as well. I don't think there's a sense of elitism here, and a good part of California isn't that different from its neighboring states. People from CA can get pissed that Trump won but they have no interest in leaving the US. 

 

When people refer to CA they usually mean the Bay Area, LA, or San Diego, not the state in its entirety, kind of like how when people refer to New York they mean NYC and not Albany or Syracuse, which creates much of the bias that's passed around here. Outside the cities Californians tend to be more conservative. 

 

Also if you're wondering why CA's economy is much bigger than other sides it has to do with its geography, location, history, and demographics. While the Midwest was suffering from the Rust Belt people from these states moved to California because of financial opportunities. CA has a lot of Latinos (some who have moved from the Plains to come here) and Asians too, and in some years there may be more Latinos than non-Latino whites. You have cities like San Francisco and LA that is against the Pacific and readily trades with Asian and Latin American countries. And universities like Stanford and Berkeley, along with US government funding during the Cold War allowed the Bay Area to grow as it is. 

[trademark2 485]

Don't know what you're talking about because CA is not seceding anytime soon. CA is indeed much different from the rest of the US and Californians do actually make more money, but the expenses here are typically higher as well. I don't think there's a sense of elitism here, and a good part of California isn't that different from its neighboring states. People from CA can get pissed that Trump won but they have no interest in leaving the US. 

 

When people refer to CA they usually mean the Bay Area, LA, or San Diego, not the state in its entirety, kind of like how when people refer to New York they mean NYC and not Albany or Syracuse, which creates much of the bias that's passed around here. Outside the cities Californians tend to be more conservative. 

 

Also if you're wondering why CA's economy is much bigger than other sides it has to do with its geography, location, history, and demographics. While the Midwest was suffering from the Rust Belt people from these states moved to California because of financial opportunities. CA has a lot of Latinos (some who have moved from the Plains to come here) and Asians too, and in some years there may be more Latinos than non-Latino whites. You have cities like San Francisco and LA that is against the Pacific and readily trades with Asian and Latin American countries. And universities like Stanford and Berkeley, along with US government funding during the Cold War allowed the Bay Area to grow as it is. 

There has been a huge movement, supported by many, many Californians, to do just that. There are a ton of articles on this topic. Obviously Californians aren't some hegemonious group of likeminded thinkers, but I'm just saying a lot of people in California view themselves less as part of America, and more as part of California, and (I think) this is because they view the cultural drift in California as superior to the wider culture of America (which is somewhat fine, but since I view myself as American, I don't like it) 

 

If you're implying that California has a big economy due to illegal immigration, i'm going to have to call you on that claim. Illegal immigrants do not help the economy, I was going to make a large post on this in the debate section, but i'll just say that having a large flood of people willing to work for minimum wage come in helps the elites, and it helps the immigrants, but it does this at the expense of the people already here(low/middle class Americans have more competition for jobs, which drives down wages and lowers employment). Illegals have an average education level of around 10th grade (verifiable data). It's true that if they work and pay taxes, they can contribute to the economy, but it's much more likely that they will be using up a lot of money in taxpayer dollars taking advantage of social programs that were intended to help American poor (which further harms low/middle class America). So, in aggregate, its taking away from the quality of life of the average american, and giving it to the Immigrant. It's not that I dislike the Mexican people, but I don't think we should be taking over 60% of our immigrants from Mexico, and I don't think illegal immigration is good for the average citizen in any way, shape, or form. We can take immigrants from wherever we want them, since we are the best country in the world (well, other than Japan).

 

IMO, California has a big economy in large part because this is where all the tech companies are based, and tech companies have insane profit margins. I know that isn't the only reason, but it is a large factor. I stayed in California for a time with my cousins, who are lawyers and hardcore feminists, and at least for me, there was a HUGE sense of elitism (this pushed me more to the right infact). Not saying that there is where you are, that was just my experience in California. Anyone with a differing ideology was treated with the utmost contempt in the circles I was brought in to. Again, not trying to imply i'm generalizing, and sorry if it comes across that way. To return to my main point, I was simply saying that there was, and is, such a movement in California, and also in Texas. But in Texas, it's because of a strong state pride, and in California it's because they think less of the rest of the country. There is a difference there. I'm not even saying most Californians support that, but it's a very vocal group, to say the least.

 

I have a feeling you will dispute some of this. It's good to have discussion, no hard feelings

Edited January 12, 2017 by trademark2

[Anneal 2,194]

If you're implying that California has a big economy due to illegal immigration, i'm going to have to call you on that claim. Illegal immigrants do not help the economy, I was going to make a large post on this in the debate section, but i'll just say that having a large flood of people willing to work for minimum wage come in helps the elites, and it helps the immigrants, but it does this at the expense of the people already here(low/middle class Americans have more competition for jobs, which drives down wages and lowers employment). Illegals have an average education level of around 10th grade (verifiable data). It's true that if they work and pay taxes, they can contribute to the economy, but it's much more likely that they will be using up a lot of money in taxpayer dollars taking advantage of social programs that were intended to help American poor (which further harms low/middle class America). So, in aggregate, its taking away from the quality of life of the average american, and giving it to the Immigrant. It's not that I dislike the Mexican people, but I don't think we should be taking over 60% of our immigrants from Mexico, and I don't think illegal immigration is good for the average citizen in any way, shape, or form. We can take immigrants from wherever we want them, since we are the best country in the world (well, other than Japan).

 

IMO, California has a big economy in large part because this is where all the tech companies are based, and tech companies have insane profit margins. I know that isn't the only reason, but it is a large factor. I stayed in California for a time with my cousins, who are lawyers and hardcore feminists, and at least for me, there was a HUGE sense of elitism (this pushed me more to the right infact). Not saying that there is where you are, that was just my experience in California. Anyone with a differing ideology was treated with the utmost contempt in the circles I was brought in to. Again, not trying to imply i'm generalizing, and sorry if it comes across that way. To return to my main point, I was simply saying that there was, and is, such a movement in California, and also in Texas. But in Texas, it's because of a strong state pride, and in California it's because they think less of the rest of the country. There is a difference there. I'm not even saying most Californians support that, but it's a very vocal group, to say the least.

 

I have a feeling you will dispute some of this. It's good to have discussion, no hard feelings

 

I didn't say any of that. I said some of the Latinos came from Plains and Southwest and moved to CA for greater financial opportunities and nowhere did I say anything about illegal immigration. You're debating about something I never even mentioned, and illegal immigration or not Latinos do take up a fair amount of the workforce in CA. There was also a big surge of Asians in the 80s and 90s where Asian countries boomed and developed and so you had this new demographic. And as I said, they influenced the political atmosphere of the state. 

 

I know there's been talk of secession throughout California but as far as I know any sort of movement is not underway and most peopl don't have that sort of feeling. Also, tech companies have prospered before universities such as Stanford and Berkeley had attracted scientists and researchers into the area and CA had been funded by the Department of Defense during the Cold War, so you had the foundation for technological companies to develop.