Why was it ok for Moondancer to be effected, and not Starlight?

[ManaMinori 4,143]

Back in Amending Fences, Twilight saw that her childhood friend had become socially crippled because of her actions, and was taught, in the end, that one small action could have devistating effects on other ponies' lives. But we see the same from Starlight Glimmer, who also let one moment from her childhood carry her off the deep end

 

I think that MD and SG should've been first fast friends, not SG and Trixie, as the former have much more in common. As do SG and Apple Bloom, who should've been another one of the first friends she made- due to AB's also losing a friend because of a cutie mark (Twist), but not going social recluse because of it, rather, choosing to go out and find new friends

 

what do you guys think? 

[Lambdadelta 1,462]

Not every friends have to share the same background story. Trixie is the best friend that Starlight could have, not someone who talk down to her or her mom (Twilight), just a friend will be there with you when you need them is enough. A boastful friend vs a Anti-social friend is better than Anti-social friend vs Anti-social friend

[cmarston1 5,951]

Because in Starlight's case it was an excuse to justify her royally screwing up the fabric of time and space, causing untold suffering across all of Equestria, and the whole brainwashing mind control camp, without having to face any major consequences for her pretty messed up actions.

Edited January 16, 2017 by cmarston1

[Kyoshi Frost Wolf 40,237]

I'd say it was at least a bit more okay for Moondancer because she didn't use her situation as an excuse to try and destroy the timelines as we know them. Moondancer would probably look at Starlight and go "Really? That's what you did? You could have...I don't know, sent letters maybe?" It is weird how similar Moondancer and Starlight are in terms of what they want through but Starlight overreacted to the highest degree possible. I don't know if they would make good friends as a result.

[Megas 27,050]

 The worst Moondancer did was shelter herself from everyone around her. With Starlight she kinda enslaved and brainwashed an entire village, robbed them of their free will and purpose in life, then kinda tried to destroy the universe, change history, and whatnot

Edited January 22, 2017 by Travis Touchdown

[Thrond 3,257]

Both overreacted to something insignificant, but Starlight went a lot further than Moondancer did. As people said, her actions were more than a little ethically questionable. Of course, I think "The Cutie Re-Mark" understood that Starlight overreacted - I don't recall it ever presenting her ideology as correct or her actions as acceptable. Meanwhile, "Amending Fences" never once questions that Moondancer based so much of her self-esteem on someone who we have no reason to believe expressed any interest in friendship, and I kinda have the opposite opinion of most people's on this comparison. They'd probably get along as long as Starlight doesn't do anything bad, but the deeper meaning of their stories is entirely different. Starlight did the wrong thing for the wrong reasons, but she's getting better. Moondancer came out of her shell because her overreaction was validated. It's not the same.

[Marimo 555]

I'd say Starlight can relate better with Trixie and vice versa due to their shared background being formerly bad ponies. Moon Dancer doesn't so she wouldn't be able to understand as well. Sure Moon Dancer and Starlight both have somewhat similar experiences involving the feeling of rejection of someone they considered a friend, but between Twilight convincing Starlight that she and the rest of the mane six could be her friend and meeting Sunburst again that's really not as much of an issue with Starlight anymore, and since then she usually just talked about how terrible she was for starting a cult and stuff.

 

 

 

due to AB's also losing a friend because of a cutie mark (Twist)

That's not canon, and has no reason to ever be considered canon. Twist just got faded out of the show, mostly due to her VA moving away and them not wanting to recast her.

Edited January 17, 2017 by Marimo

[sweetolebob18 724]

I agree with Marimo.  I'll even go a little farther. Starlight, Trixie, & Discord should form an ex villains' support group. 

[The Nth Doctor 652]

Moondancer threw herself into her studies, something real people have done

 

Starlight...turned into an evil dictator because her friend got a tattoo, which...

 

 

Yeah, there's nothing similar about their backstories (Although Starlight had some fifteen years or so to stew in her misery before getting apprehended, so...)

[Steve Piranha 28,751]

Because Starlight's reason felt pretty weak for all the crap she did 

[cmarston1 5,951]

Because Starlight's reason felt pretty weak for all the crap she did 

For a supposed well-intentioned extremist type of villain that got a lot of praise during the season 5 premiere, her motives left a lot to be desired.

And given how people have compared Starlight to Amon and the Equalists from the Legend of Korra, they become even more laughable in comparison.

[Thrond 3,257]

Lotta people reacting as if Starlight's backstory was supposed to be the entirety of her motivation, or even to justify her actions, when it's really only the beginning of her ideology. Seems pretty obvious that there was a lot of confirmation bias involved after Sunburst left. 

[Music Chart Fan 818]

Lotta people reacting as if Starlight's backstory was supposed to be the entirety of her motivation, or even to justify her actions, when it's really only the beginning of her ideology. Seems pretty obvious that there was a lot of confirmation bias involved after Sunburst left.

 

I think that illustrates the problem, though. The single story about Sunburst moving away after getting his cutie mark is the only explanation the show has given for why Starlight turned out the way she did. There's a BIG distance between "Starlight was upset as a kid when her friend moved away after getting his cutie mark" to "Starlight has committed her life to eradicating cutie marks, and is so committed that when the Mane Six try to put a stop to it, she works up a spell to manipulate spacetime in order to get revenge on them". And yet the show provides nearly no explanation of how Starlight got from the former to the latter. Kids moving away from their friends, or vice versa, seems like a pretty normal and understandable occurrence, one that most people eventually get through without obsessing over it into adulthood and drastically altering their life trajectories as a result. So why did Starlight react SO badly, and why didn't anyone (including herself) stop her on her path to thinking that all cutie marks destroy friendships and must be eradicated? I wrote in my original post in the topic for "The Cutie Re-Mark" some of the reasons why I find Starlight's backstory, as presented, hard to believe:

 

And then there's the traumatizing event itself. Starlight's childhood friend Sunburst got his cutie mark, and then, if we're to believe Starlight's account, he was more or less immediately whisked off to Canterlot, never to be seen again. There are several issues I see with this story, though. Why does Sunburst's going to Canterlot mean that Starlight never sees him again? Even as a kid, why didn't Starlight ever contact him or visit him? Did Sunburst never return home for holidays or to visit family and friends? Did Starlight ever try to seek Sunburst out at any time later, such as when she became an adult? Starlight also says that she stayed in her hometown and never made another friend, but why was she, as a child, allowed to do that? Why didn't her parents, teachers, etc. recognize her emotional trauma and help her work through it?

 

And, of course, Starlight came to the wrong conclusion that Sunburst's cutie mark itself was the cause of Sunburst being taken away and her never seeing him again, when in reality, there were other factors at work. Starlight apparently never realized that what happened with Sunburst is probably a relatively unique case. Not all ponies who gets their cutie marks immediately leave their friends and hometowns never to be seen again, regardless of whether they get their cutie marks before their friends. But the big problem to me is that, while it's somewhat understandable for Starlight as a child to misunderstand the cause-effect relationship between Sunburst getting his cutie mark and her never seeing him again, Starlight carried this childhood misconception into adulthood and even based her life around it. She apparently never tried to make an honest friend, for fear of her friendship turning out the same way as with Sunburst, even long after having or not having a cutie mark stopped being an issue. Starlight says that she and Sunburst turned out different and it tore their friendship apart, but she apparently never considered if it was the circumstances and the actions that she, Sunburst, his parents, etc. took that caused their friendship to end. I would think that Starlight would be smart enough as an adult to realize that it's not valid to draw a general conclusion that cutie marks are bad and take away friendships, and therefore everyone should be equal, from a single relatively unique event in her childhood.

 

I honestly can't come up with solutions to these questions and issues. If the backstory shown in "The Cutie Re-Mark" is only the beginning, then we're not shown or told anything else that happened after that to make Starlight into an adult on a mission to get rid of all cutie marks. And that's a problem because I (and probably others) don't understand how exactly that happened, and have essentially no basis on which to fill in those details and make Starlight's backstory make sense. I would say that this seems like an instance of "show, don't tell", but the show doesn't even tell what happened after the backstory shown in "The Cutie Re-Mark". Maybe it should be rephrased in this case as "show, don't leave the audience to fill in a huge and important backstory with only assumptions and speculation".

[Thrond 3,257]

I think that illustrates the problem, though. The single story about Sunburst moving away after getting his cutie mark is the only explanation the show has given for why Starlight turned out the way she did. There's a BIG distance between "Starlight was upset as a kid when her friend moved away after getting his cutie mark" to "Starlight has committed her life to eradicating cutie marks, and is so committed that when the Mane Six try to put a stop to it, she works up a spell to manipulate spacetime in order to get revenge on them". And yet the show provides nearly no explanation of how Starlight got from the former to the latter. Kids moving away from their friends, or vice versa, seems like a pretty normal and understandable occurrence, one that most people eventually get through without obsessing over it into adulthood and drastically altering their life trajectories as a result. So why did Starlight react SO badly, and why didn't anyone (including herself) stop her on her path to thinking that all cutie marks destroy friendships and must be eradicated? I wrote in my original post in the topic for "The Cutie Re-Mark" some of the reasons why I find Starlight's backstory, as presented, hard to believe:

 

 

I honestly can't come up with solutions to these questions and issues. If the backstory shown in "The Cutie Re-Mark" is only the beginning, then we're not shown or told anything else that happened after that to make Starlight into an adult on a mission to get rid of all cutie marks. And that's a problem because I (and probably others) don't understand how exactly that happened, and have essentially no basis on which to fill in those details and make Starlight's backstory make sense. I would say that this seems like an instance of "show, don't tell", but the show doesn't even tell what happened after the backstory shown in "The Cutie Re-Mark". Maybe it should be rephrased in this case as "show, don't leave the audience to fill in a huge and important backstory with only assumptions and speculation".

I'm not entirely convinced that it was a night/day change; I imagine that it just planted seeds in Starlight's mind which many later events eventually transformed into a lasting hatred of cutie marks. Perhaps by the time anyone was aware of that, it was too late, but admittedly that's pure conjecture, and although Starlight seems generally unstable, we don't get a good sense for how that affected her ideology. With that said, I'm not entirely sure how else she would form that ideology, because unless she experienced a particularly long period of events which fed her confirmation bias, surely she'd realize that meaningful, lasting, healthy friendships can still form between ponies with different cutie marks. I always found it implicit enough to not feel like I was doing the legwork, even though there's clearly a lot of details missing and I can understand how people might be disappointed in that. 

[Goat-kun 2,496]

Lotta people reacting as if Starlight's backstory was supposed to be the entirety of her motivation, or even to justify her actions, when it's really only the beginning of her ideology. Seems pretty obvious that there was a lot of confirmation bias involved after Sunburst left. 

Cheesus Crips who got grilled for our sins, you are really treating this show like it's catering to your kind of developed mind, aren't you? No wonder folks like you come charging in whenever some shitlord like me throws a fit over bad writing. White knights are basically filling the gaps with fanfics while accusing all others of wanting the show to be like theirs.

 

Would you mind also explaining Tree of Harmony? Me and Tyrone over there had an argument, you see. I claim that it's an eldritch deity which wants to enslave all life, while Tyrone thinks it's a space rock with super powers. So could you please inform us what it is since you seem to know so much about FIM lore and H-Bro's vision. Our friendship depends on it!

[Thrond 3,257]

Cheesus Crips who got grilled for our sins, you are really treating this show like it's catering to your kind of developed mind, aren't you? No wonder folks like you come charging in whenever some shitlord like me throws a fit over bad writing. White knights are basically filling the gaps with fanfics while accusing all others of wanting the show to be like theirs.

Apparently, the existence of several years between the Starlight flashback and the mane six encountering her wasn't as implicit as I took it to be. 

 

Would you mind also explaining Tree of Harmony? Me and Tyrone over there had an argument, you see. I claim that it's an eldritch deity which wants to enslave all life, while Tyrone thinks it's a space rock with super powers. 

I prefer your take on it. 

[Steve Piranha 28,751]

For a supposed well-intentioned extremist type of villain that got a lot of praise during the season 5 premiere, her motives left a lot to be desired.

And given how people have compared Starlight to Amon and the Equalists from the Legend of Korra, they become even more laughable in comparison.

True. For the stuff she'd pulled off, one expected that she was either mocked senseless of being blank flank, she got her cutie mark earlier than every foal in her community (thus more envious bullying), or her cutie mark represented was the most stand out of the other foals, and thus, being bullied relentlessly (that'll surely could've fueled her initial views of equality)  

[Aurora Glimmer 494]

For a supposed well-intentioned extremist type of villain that got a lot of praise during the season 5 premiere, her motives left a lot to be desired.

And given how people have compared Starlight to Amon and the Equalists from the Legend of Korra, they become even more laughable in comparison.

IMHO, they should've either left Starlight's backstory a mystery or saved it for a future episode. The backstory we got was either very rushed or had been trimmed down for the sake of time.

[Goat-kun 2,496]

Apparently, the existence of several years between the Starlight flashback and the mane six encountering her wasn't as implicit as I took it to be.

It's called show, don't tell. The "show" part is good writing. The "tell" part is bad writing, especially if it means you need some quack shrink and a whole bunch of white knights to justify Starlight's actions. She should be able to function without you holding her hoof. These are not the kind of breadcrumbs competent writers would want to spread among their audience. Even if these breadcrumbs were actually real, they'd do nothing but explain something that should have been made crystal clear from the very beginning to EVERYONE.

[Steve Piranha 28,751]

IMHO, they should've either left Starlight's backstory a mystery or saved it for a future episode. The backstory we got was either very rushed or had been trimmed down for the sake of time.

Still, that doesn't save them that the justificafion for Starlight's action was lame and weak. At that lapse of time where her backstory was shown, they could have either shortened her story with Sunburst and showed a REAL reason for her actions. OR going straight to a real trauma that made her what she is . They didn't even implied that was just the begining, but was shown it was the SOLE reason why Starlight became a villain, it was not even IMPLIED that was just the start

[Thrond 3,257]

It's called show, don't tell. The "show" part is good writing. The "tell" part is bad writing, especially if it means you need some quack shrink and a whole bunch of white knights to justify Starlight's actions. She should be able to function without you holding her hoof. These are not the kind of breadcrumbs competent writers would want to spread among their audience. Even if these breadcrumbs were actually real, they'd do nothing but explain something that should have been made crystal clear from the very beginning to EVERYONE.

Granted, the episode proper only really shows you the initial incident, so I get why people find it underwhelming; I'm probably way overstating my case out of irritation. I guess most people saw the scene differently from how I did, as I never felt that it was supposed to justify Starlight's behaviour. Think I took it for granted that she was wrong and her reactions are wrong, so of course the initial incident would have to be wrong as well. That said, the argument that something should have corrected her course in the intervening years is beginning to stick with me, although I still don't have nearly the same amount of anger for it as you all do. 

[Aurora Glimmer 494]

Still, that doesn't save them that the justificafion for Starlight's action was lame and weak. At that lapse of time where her backstory was shown, they could have either shortened her story with Sunburst and showed a REAL reason for her actions. OR going straight to a real trauma that made her what she is . They didn't even implied that was just the begining, but was shown it was the SOLE reason why Starlight became a villain, it was not even IMPLIED that was just the start

That's what makes me think there was originally more to Starlight's backstory that got cut out due to time constraints. If the show continues exploring Starlight's character in Season 7, I think one of the things the writers should do is expand upon Starlight's backstory a bit.

Edited January 24, 2017 by Aurora Glimmer